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NowhereMan
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Reply #2415 on: November 19, 2014, 04:12:11 PM

Two different events but weirdly about a year apart. Also literally the only phones I've had to replace so maybe the area is unluck? I blame ghosts....

"Look at my car. Do you think that was bought with the earnest love of geeks?" - HaemishM
Rendakor
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Reply #2416 on: November 19, 2014, 04:18:08 PM

Son, I am disappoint.

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Sky
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Reply #2417 on: November 20, 2014, 07:36:44 AM

I've only had my smart phone (s5) for 4 months, but SD support and the external battery are both big factors in my going with the Samsung. I don't know that the things you're citing are necessarily valid, Quinton, unless 'normal' people use their phone far differently from me (which is probably the case). Unless people don't put their phones in cases, thickness and ruggedness is more an attribute of the case (mine is thicker than I'd want, but pretty damn rugged). As soon as I can swing it/see a sale (cough black friday) I'm snagging the battery case with internal charger so I always have a backup battery. Ran out in the middle of nowhere and had to run an extension cord from the inverter in the back of my truck to get my gps up and running :) Spare battery would've been nice there.

The external storage is a deal breaker for me already, I take lots of pics and video but mostly I use it to jot down musical ideas, which chew up a lot of space (I went with a 128GB microSD).
01101010
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Reply #2418 on: November 20, 2014, 08:15:24 AM

I've only had my smart phone (s5) for 4 months, but SD support and the external battery are both big factors in my going with the Samsung. I don't know that the things you're citing are necessarily valid, Quinton, unless 'normal' people use their phone far differently from me (which is probably the case). Unless people don't put their phones in cases, thickness and ruggedness is more an attribute of the case (mine is thicker than I'd want, but pretty damn rugged). As soon as I can swing it/see a sale (cough black friday) I'm snagging the battery case with internal charger so I always have a backup battery. Ran out in the middle of nowhere and had to run an extension cord from the inverter in the back of my truck to get my gps up and running :) Spare battery would've been nice there.

The external storage is a deal breaker for me already, I take lots of pics and video but mostly I use it to jot down musical ideas, which chew up a lot of space (I went with a 128GB microSD).

The S5 recognizes the 128g card? Nice... It used to be phones would only recognize up to 64g. I really need to read up on the advancements as I am in the market come the new year.

Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
Sky
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Reply #2419 on: November 20, 2014, 08:41:10 AM

I have few gripes about the experience, and I'm sure some of that comes from jumping into the tech feet first (upgrading from an LG flip phone on tracfone). It's mostly been awesome except the ridiculously large monthly fee (I think I'm up to $108/mo now, and they just yanked my automagic voice-to-text for voicemail which is both awesome and another $3/mo). I could buy a new guitar every couple years for that kind of money (like really nice guitars).
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Reply #2420 on: November 20, 2014, 09:20:40 AM

I've only had my smart phone (s5) for 4 months, but SD support and the external battery are both big factors in my going with the Samsung. I don't know that the things you're citing are necessarily valid, Quinton, unless 'normal' people use their phone far differently from me (which is probably the case). Unless people don't put their phones in cases, thickness and ruggedness is more an attribute of the case (mine is thicker than I'd want, but pretty damn rugged).

There's a lot of diversity in how people use smartphones and what features they want.  I speak from having been on the Android team for 9 years and observing how management made decisions around the Nexus program and OS features (at least as of last fall when I left), not from any belief on "how it should be".  The fact that Samsung and other OEMs do brisk trade in phones with sdcard slots and removable batteries speaks to plenty of people wanting those features.

Personally I'm a relatively light phone user (I see 5-7 days of battery life on a N5) and I never use a case and tend not to have a lot of data on my phone so the Nexus devices have worked well for me.
ezrast
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Reply #2421 on: November 20, 2014, 09:26:47 AM

I want a new phone. My T-Mobile MyTouch might be dying. I don't really know about phones. I just want to upgrade to something that's responsive and doesn't take 10 minutes to boot up or suffer constant browser crashes. A respectable camera would be a plus. I'm slightly loyal to T-Mobile.

Just get a previous-gen Galaxy or Nexus? Is there a cheapass option that won't burn me in the long run? Motorola or something?
eldaec
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Reply #2422 on: November 20, 2014, 10:25:26 AM

I would never recommend a previous gen android except for a nexus.

Bloatware in the non-nexus will steadily degrade performance as the software gets updated. Espeicially if you expect it to be a 3 year old model at end of life.

That said, all the major manufacturers have decent non-flagship cheaper models in current model year that are worth considering.


You wouldn't go far wrong with a nexus 5.

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01101010
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Reply #2423 on: November 20, 2014, 11:03:24 AM

I want a new phone. My T-Mobile MyTouch might be dying. I don't really know about phones. I just want to upgrade to something that's responsive and doesn't take 10 minutes to boot up or suffer constant browser crashes. A respectable camera would be a plus. I'm slightly loyal to T-Mobile.

Just get a previous-gen Galaxy or Nexus? Is there a cheapass option that won't burn me in the long run? Motorola or something?

If you are looking to purchase the phone without a subsidy, the Nexus 5 is about as good and cheap as you can get right now without trolling eBay for a used/refurbished. On contract, the Moto X is basically the phone version of the Nexus 6...if you are looking for a great phone with a decent price on contract.

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apocrypha
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Reply #2424 on: November 20, 2014, 11:17:56 AM

I've got a Nexus 4 still, love it, great phone, very cheap, still working fine. Wife has a Moto X and also loves it, great phone, very cheap.

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Reply #2425 on: November 21, 2014, 01:02:04 AM

The keyboard in new Android (5.0, Lollipop) looks horrible. It's white, it's bright (like the rest of the UI. I liked dark UI, damnit. At least give me a choice!), and there's no clear distinction between where one button for a letter ends and the next begins. Many other features also lack in functionality compared to the previous version of Androidl, or just looks horribly ugly. Like the calendar. And the calculator. And the apps folder. And the main navigation buttons at bottom of the screen. I really wish they'd stop giving work to "User Experience Designers".  Mob

EDIT: I found out how to change keyboard appearance to a darker one, at least, in settings for Google Keyboard.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 01:26:38 AM by Xuri »

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NowhereMan
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Reply #2426 on: November 21, 2014, 01:12:24 AM

Personally I don't like removing functionality from things like the power buttone. I really liked being able to long press it and silence or airplane mode my phone without going into the lock screen. Now I have to go in and use the volume button to get the option for silencing. There seems to be a push with this to 'streamline' the ways to do things, basically making it a little more intuitive to perform basic functions while also removing all the neat little shortcuts they used to have (like 2 finger slides not taking you directly to settings any more it seems). I certainly get making the main route for getting to these functions simpler but why also get rid of the hand shortcuts?

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Logain
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Reply #2427 on: November 21, 2014, 06:17:58 AM

The keyboard in new Android (5.0, Lollipop) looks horrible. It's white, it's bright (like the rest of the UI. I liked dark UI, damnit. At least give me a choice!), and there's no clear distinction between where one button for a letter ends and the next begins. Many other features also lack in functionality compared to the previous version of Androidl, or just looks horribly ugly. Like the calendar. And the calculator. And the apps folder. And the main navigation buttons at bottom of the screen. I really wish they'd stop giving work to "User Experience Designers".  Mob

EDIT: I found out how to change keyboard appearance to a darker one, at least, in settings for Google Keyboard.

Swiftkey

Worth checking out if the keyboard has ever been a problem for you.
01101010
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Reply #2428 on: November 21, 2014, 07:06:19 AM

The keyboard in new Android (5.0, Lollipop) looks horrible. It's white, it's bright (like the rest of the UI. I liked dark UI, damnit. At least give me a choice!), and there's no clear distinction between where one button for a letter ends and the next begins. Many other features also lack in functionality compared to the previous version of Androidl, or just looks horribly ugly. Like the calendar. And the calculator. And the apps folder. And the main navigation buttons at bottom of the screen. I really wish they'd stop giving work to "User Experience Designers".  Mob

EDIT: I found out how to change keyboard appearance to a darker one, at least, in settings for Google Keyboard.

I think this was done because Google Keyboard now has the swipe function. Tapping keys is a thing of the past... at least for some. I haven't tap typed in two years.

Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
ezrast
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Reply #2429 on: November 21, 2014, 03:32:14 PM

Thanks for the advice, team. Going to see what all the retailers do for Black Friday and then pick up one of the models you all suggested.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #2430 on: November 21, 2014, 10:14:12 PM

While we're playing "pick my next phone": Motorola Moto X (8gb) or LG G2 (32gb)? Leaning towards the G2.

--Dave

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Trippy
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Reply #2431 on: November 21, 2014, 10:43:41 PM

Are you on Sprint or Verizon? The Nexus 5 is similar to the G2 and would be a better choice if want the stock Android experience and access to the latest version of Android but you would need to be on a GSM carrier (T-Mobile or AT&T in the US).

MahrinSkel
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Reply #2432 on: November 22, 2014, 12:07:55 PM

Are you on Sprint or Verizon? The Nexus 5 is similar to the G2 and would be a better choice if want the stock Android experience and access to the latest version of Android but you would need to be on a GSM carrier (T-Mobile or AT&T in the US).


Verizon. Only reason I am considering the Moto X is the Gorilla Glass, otherwise the G2 appears to be equal or better in everything.

--Dave

EDIT: The only place the Moto X seems clearly superior is the camera.  But I don't need a 13 mega pixel camera on my phone, if I want something better than a snap, I have a mid-range Canon that blows any phone away.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 12:33:55 PM by MahrinSkel »

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Reply #2433 on: November 22, 2014, 01:34:54 PM

Why the G2 and not the G3 out of interest?

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Reply #2434 on: November 22, 2014, 01:51:46 PM

Are you on Sprint or Verizon? The Nexus 5 is similar to the G2 and would be a better choice if want the stock Android experience and access to the latest version of Android but you would need to be on a GSM carrier (T-Mobile or AT&T in the US).
Verizon. Only reason I am considering the Moto X is the Gorilla Glass, otherwise the G2 appears to be equal or better in everything.
I wouldn't use any phone without some sort of screen protector on it. Though the Gorilla Glass 3 on the Moto X is tougher than the Gorilla Glass 2 screen on the LG G2, plenty of people complain about scratches on their unprotected Gorilla Glass 3 screens.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #2435 on: November 22, 2014, 08:07:52 PM

Why the G2 and not the G3 out of interest?
The G2 would be free with a contract, the Moto X would be $99, which is my upper limit.  The G3 would be $149, which isn't that much, but it seems like all I get is 10% more CPU, "wireless" charging, and the ability to shoot 2160p video (why would anyone want that? You can barely see the difference on a 50" screen, even if you could find/afford one). Turns out the G2 does have a 13MPx camera (the 2.1MPx is the front-facing), so as near as I can tell there is literally zero reason for picking that Moto X.  Especially as I have always been happy with LG, and usually had problems with Motorola.

I'm going to put it in a case with a screen protector, so the 3rd generation glass makes little difference (especially since usually they just make it thinner to shave off a fraction of an ounce).

--Dave

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KallDrexx
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Reply #2436 on: November 23, 2014, 07:08:04 AM

My wife caved in and decided to take me to Gamestop to pick up the NVIDIA Shield tablet + accessories instead of having them sit in a box until christmas  awesome, for real

This tablet is awesome so far.  Last night I laid in bed and played Borderlands 2 on it (streaming it from my desktop in the other room) and it worked beautifully.  I could snipe, dodge, and get headshots with no issue (and this was having to downgrade to 2.4ghz Wifii, as the 5ghz signal isn't stable enough through the walls to my bedroom).

It's excellently sized for a tablet in my opinion, and good weight for being held with one hand.  The screen is a tad taller than my wife's iPad mini a tad thinner.  The DPI looks fine to me even though it's lower than her mini.  The stylus is perfect when I need to remote into my desktop and control the mouse, and also for mouse based games (well only tried Hearthstone so far).

Only thing I wish is that it the streaming stuff wasn't so restricted, so I could stream from my AMD laptop when on the road, but oh well.

*Edit*

What the fuck is up with Android not letting apps write to the SD card?  I'm trying to transfer some videos to my SD card and it's proving to be the most frustratingly difficult thing ever.  ES File Explorer is telling me I need to pick some folder to set as root so ES has permissions to it, but then it opens some app that's blank.  Googling shows me results saying that Google totally fucked over permissions in relation to SD cards back in Kit Kat.

I just want to transfer videos from my tower to my Lollipop tablet.  Any suggestions?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 09:14:59 AM by KallDrexx »
Rendakor
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Reply #2437 on: November 23, 2014, 10:27:20 AM

Use AirDroid; transfers them from your PC via wifi.

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KallDrexx
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Reply #2438 on: November 23, 2014, 02:37:20 PM

So Airdroid is neat,

But it tells me it can't do shit except read files off of my SD card because of KitKat restrictions  angry
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Reply #2439 on: November 23, 2014, 05:17:31 PM

Best cross platform family tracking service?  I bought the kid an Android phone today and we use iPhones, I'd like to see where her phone is at, if possible.

Any advice is welcome!
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Reply #2440 on: November 24, 2014, 02:05:21 PM

So, $99 seems to be the price point at which I'll buy something on a whim just to write emails on vacation.

In completely unrelated news, HD6 arrives tomorrow.
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Reply #2441 on: December 03, 2014, 01:56:51 PM

Among the tech presentations that float through my inbox, today I saw one which intends to demonstrate an Android installation on a flat NVM device.  If I was a programmer or especially a OS programmer, I'd surely attend.  I might still attend anyway even though I suppose a certain amount of it may be wasted on me.

How much of a change would it be to implement Android, or any other OS, using a flat memory model?

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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MahrinSkel
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Reply #2442 on: December 03, 2014, 10:32:02 PM

Among the tech presentations that float through my inbox, today I saw one which intends to demonstrate an Android installation on a flat NVM device.  If I was a programmer or especially a OS programmer, I'd surely attend.  I might still attend anyway even though I suppose a certain amount of it may be wasted on me.

How much of a change would it be to implement Android, or any other OS, using a flat memory model?
It depends on exactly what you mean by "NVM", but from what I understand, a flat memory model wouldn't be any kind of shift at all for Android, it's already supporting 64 bit addresses on hardware that can use them. Putting apps into flash storage is mostly a matter of conserving RAM, but if NVM means non-volatile memory then I wouldn't think it would take much to make Android just use the same memory space for everything, rather than swapping in and out. The Android memory manager spends most of its time hiding whether an app is currently in RAM or not, you bring data back into RAM just by addressing it.

Why would you want to, though?  The whole reason they use RAM in the first place is that flash memory is too slow for actual computation. Unless there's some form of non-volatile memory that is in the same speed range as DDR3? Were you talking about some form of virtual machine? Because you can run an Android VM on nearly anything, I think that if you ran it on a VM that had lots of RAM, it would just never swap anything out of RAM.

--Dave

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KallDrexx
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Reply #2443 on: December 04, 2014, 05:58:27 AM

I see Android is still unimpressive as ever even after 4 years of not using it, it's a shame that the specs and capabilities of Shield isn't on iOS or Windows tablets.

Chrome just randomly lags and majorly stutters even when there is one tab open and no other apps open, on not very heavy websites too.  You still have to manually kill heavy applications from running in the background, some apps I have noticed significantly smoother performance by going to the all apps view and swiping apps away.  The lock screen sometimes lags after it turns off, making me unsure if I am actually hitting it or not.  Uninstallable applications (too late to root since I've already upgraded to Lolipop and can't be arsed to downgrade just to root).  SD folder selection stuff crashes, meaning I can't grant apps access to my SD card making it useless.  The default keyboard is terrible, and every time I have to write an email I take out my Windows phone instead.  Copy paste is a pain in the ass, or I haven't figured out the trick to selection yet (and even deselection, yesterday I wanted to deselect all text because I just wanted to paste, and it was determined to keep one letter at the end selected).  Pulling up the bottom buttons in fullscreen mode doesn't always react properly, but if you don't go into fullscreen mode and watch a video the buttons cover up the video.  etc... etc... etc..
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Reply #2444 on: December 04, 2014, 09:46:20 AM

Why would you want to, though?  The whole reason they use RAM in the first place is that flash memory is too slow for actual computation. Unless there's some form of non-volatile memory that is in the same speed range as DDR3?

Non-volatile memory will inevitably be much faster, and that's pretty much what the demo is about.  Could be that they are simulating it by using a lot of DRAM, but high-speed NVM like PCRAM or STT-RAM or memristor storage is something that could be a reality in a few years.  Ideally the NVM will be cheap as well as fast, but realistically it will start off expensive.  Assuming that a flat memory/storage device becomes a reality, I think that there must be entire chunks of modern OSes which could be jettisoned.  For a monolithic kernel, this could be a major overhaul.  However I'm not a programmer so I'm in the dark, although genuinely curious.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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MahrinSkel
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Reply #2445 on: December 04, 2014, 10:45:34 AM

Kaldrexx: Which version are you running, and on what hardware? My new quad-core G2 is decidedly snappier than my year-old dual-core tablet (that also has about half the clock speed), and they both blow away my old single-core tablet and phone, even though they're running much later versions of Android. Running emulation on my rather ridiculously overpowered laptop, it's fast as hell even in debugging mode. Between more cores, faster clocks, and better RAM, it's been orders of magnitude improvements over the last 3 years. The only time I have a problem is when I have websites loaded in Desktop mode, they tend to force a lot of swapping between RAM and flash.

Some apps aren't very well behaved, but things like Advanced Task Killer can be set up to automatically spike them whenever they aren't in the foreground.  Carrier/manufacturer bloatware can be a problem, but that is always the first thing I do even on PC's: Find ways to rip it out, up to and including installing the OS from scratch. The only thing I really have felt annoyed about is that Google Now won't automatically release the microphone for recording apps, I have to go into the settings and deactivate the "Always On".

Yegolev: In the unlikely event that NVM catches up to RAM in speed, yes, a lot of things could be simplified.  But I think that it will be a very long time before any form of NVM is both as fast as RAM and not prohibitively expensive compared to slower forms for bulk data.  I could see a non-volatile form of RAM replacing the current tech and making sleep/hibernation modes obsolete, but not SSD's (which is essentially what the bulk storage in Android systems is).

--Dave

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Reply #2446 on: December 04, 2014, 10:51:55 AM

This unlikely tech is the rarefied atmosphere that I work in. awesome, for real

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #2447 on: December 04, 2014, 02:23:17 PM

This unlikely tech is the rarefied atmosphere that I work in. awesome, for real
Interesting.  How much trouble would you get in if you gave a handwave in the direction of how long before it's consumer-ready, in terms of price (IOW, no more than $10/gb for RAM replacement, and $2/gb for storage)?

Anyway, in terms of adapting to a truly flat memory model, Android would need less modification than any other OS, I would think, since the memory model on it from the app viewpoint is already flat, what's really in RAM and what isn't is all handled by the memory manager (which would just...stop doing that). It's even less exposed than the difference between actual RAM and the pagefile in a normal desktop OS (asking Android where a given chunk of data is means that it will be loaded into RAM if it wasn't). And it doesn't really care what form the storage is in, which can cause issues if you're emulating the flash on an HDD.  Every process runs in its own flat address space, as far as it can tell.

--Dave

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KallDrexx
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Reply #2448 on: December 04, 2014, 04:21:12 PM

Kaldrexx: Which version are you running, and on what hardware? My new quad-core G2 is decidedly snappier than my year-old dual-core tablet (that also has about half the clock speed), and they both blow away my old single-core tablet and phone, even though they're running much later versions of Android. Running emulation on my rather ridiculously overpowered laptop, it's fast as hell even in debugging mode. Between more cores, faster clocks, and better RAM, it's been orders of magnitude improvements over the last 3 years. The only time I have a problem is when I have websites loaded in Desktop mode, they tend to force a lot of swapping between RAM and flash.

My Nvidia Shield Tablet is running Lollipop (Settings -> About Tablet shows Android Version 5.0), which is a 2.2Ghz Quad core Tegra K1 with 2GB of RAM.  It's not like it's 3 year old device I'm using.

I'll check out Advanced Task Killer, at least that'll help a bit hopefully.
MahrinSkel
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Reply #2449 on: December 04, 2014, 07:34:04 PM

Kaldrexx: Which version are you running, and on what hardware? My new quad-core G2 is decidedly snappier than my year-old dual-core tablet (that also has about half the clock speed), and they both blow away my old single-core tablet and phone, even though they're running much later versions of Android. Running emulation on my rather ridiculously overpowered laptop, it's fast as hell even in debugging mode. Between more cores, faster clocks, and better RAM, it's been orders of magnitude improvements over the last 3 years. The only time I have a problem is when I have websites loaded in Desktop mode, they tend to force a lot of swapping between RAM and flash.

My Nvidia Shield Tablet is running Lollipop (Settings -> About Tablet shows Android Version 5.0), which is a 2.2Ghz Quad core Tegra K1 with 2GB of RAM.  It's not like it's 3 year old device I'm using.

I'll check out Advanced Task Killer, at least that'll help a bit hopefully.
Okay, yeah, beats the hell out of me, I haven't messed with Lollipop yet and lord only knows what NVidia did to it. My tablet is running Jelly Bean (4.2.3 with some borged-together bits from other versions where I didn't like JB) and my phone is running Kit-Kat (4.4, nearly Google standard even before I ripped the bloatware out).  I stopped messing with Android much after I started school, so I haven't really looked at 5.0.

"point zero" OS releases are always messed up in some way, I don't know why Android would be an exception. Add in that NVidia probably has tweaked the hell out of whatever is running on the Shield (which probably doesn't have the same hardware as anything else), and you've got a brittle bit of bleeding edge tech in your hands.

--Dave

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