f13.net

OMG I MAEK THREAD LIEK IPHONE ONE.  :why_so_serious:

Ok, now that's out of the way and we can get serious.

Picking up my HTC Dream tomorrow! Anyone else jumping on the train to early-adoptionville? On the bright side, it only costs $180! On the brighter side, my current phone is out of contract AND the battery only lasts 30 minutes now! Woooo! I'm done with sprint! yay!

Fuck T-mobile.

Funny, this thread isn't about T-Mobile. Go somewhere else.

it good or wat?

Didn't even read my post, did you >_<

You'll be able to make an F13 Android/Iphone app (http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/10/20/apploop-transforms-blogs-into-native-iphone-applications/) with a few clicks soon apparently. They got me all excited with the article and then you go to the AppLoop website and it says "for exclusive partners only at the moment". Douchebags.

 :drill:

What's the price for the phone without a long-term contract and are the unlock hacks available yet?

Edit: available

When unlimited data plans can allow me to drop my home internet connection I'll be on this bandwagon in an instant. 

On a side note does apple have hand held multi-touch display exclusivity?  The lack of thise feature on pretty much every device out there annoys me, hopefully it gets resolved prior to my mobile bandwidth issues.

Best unboxing pictures evar!


Also, if you have ~5GB free and want to build the whole system from source, http://source.android.com/ ^^

Which one is you? :awesome_for_real:

It was at 8am or some ungodly hour of the morning like that.  I was still alseep.

Regarding unlocked devices -- we're working on a plan to have somebody sell non-network-locked devices with engineering bootloaders (no restrictions on system software install) to interested developer/haxxor/hobbiest types.  Details not yet finalized, but we're working on it.

Devices went on sale at 6PM at a TMO store in SF tonight: http://flickr.com/photos/romainguy/sets/72157608260694689/

Any idea when this comes to Canada? :grin:

So I came home to get my Sprint account number to switch over to T-Mobile. Earlier though, when I showed up at the store to wait in line, some dudes had brought a 40" LCD, carpet, couch, modded 360, a stack of games and a generator.

You know, I thought just camping out was hardcore enough if I had a PSP in my coat pocket. No, these guys upped the ante. I should probably bring them beer.

No grill?

24 hour McDonalds was like 10 feet away.

Their grill only houses McFatBurgers and McGiant Drinks.

Photos!  I worked on this product for nearly 4 years and people hauled a 40" TV down to a TMO store, I demand photographic proof of this.  ^^

How come you are up so early? :awesome_for_real:

This phone is fucking awesome.

Also, they packed it up by the time I got back to the store.

Other than the imap client, which is LULZ.

How does the screen feel- is it accurate? Do you long for the warm comfort of multitouch?

Any iPhone<>gPhone side by side reviews yet?

Unless you've used an iPhone I can only take comments about the gPhone as ignorant bliss.  :oh_i_see:

Never cared for multitouch to begin with. This feels as responsive if not more.


The iphone does some things slicker, most notably GPS. That's offset for me by the tactile keyboard here though - I'd have gotten an iphone if it had an actual keyboard instead of that fake shit.  Anyway, the GPS tracker thing on the iphone is simply better, but all of the google integration here is completely fucking beautiful. Also, the stuff on the Marketplace all mimic things on the iphone.... but most are free. Different less-money grubbing community I suppose. Oh, and it's not Apple. Hur.

Ok, this OS is just fucking superb. I'm going to be digging through this thing for days. It's like if the iphone weren't designed for effete fashionista jackoffs but for people that, you know, need a useful phone.

So, things about this that have nothing to do with the iPhone - but rather specifically, the G1 & it's interoperability with Android.

• The Wallpaper System - fucking rad. Basically, it's 640x480 instead of 320x480. The wallpaper spreads across the three desktops with 120 pixels of overlay in the middle area. Some neat shit to be done there.
• Instead of having a blackberry style weird touch ball light thing or a scroll bar, it has an actual ball - it feels really really nice to navigate with, almost elegant with a nice tactile feel.
• Setting MP3s as ringers on this thing is LOVE.
• I'm sure all Android phones will have this, but it's awesome none the less - as I added contacts to my gmail account, they appeared practically immediately on the phone.
• Whoever decided to make the phone vibrate when longtapping (the technical equivilent, I suppose of Right Clicking, or Clicking and holding) is brilliant.
• APPARENTLY T-Mobile employees weren't made aware of this - as I asked in the store - but the G1 provides unlimited access at all T-Mobile hotspots, you just download an app from the Android Market - SO FUCKING AWESOME.

More later.

I'm still trying to figure out how to use my simple cell phone and you taunt me with this?  It's not nice to torment the elderly.

The only question I have: how much are you paying per month for all this bliss?  And how long of a contract do they have you locked into?

$179.99 for the phone, $196.93 w/ tax out the door.

$39.99 myfaves plan (don't ask family issues/grandparents, mom made me get a plan that let me put their 3 numbers on unlimited time, sigh) (Would've gotten the $29.99 plan)

$34.99 Unlimited messaging, internet, hotspots, IM, mail. 3G/Edge/Wifi.

$6 Insurance per month. Because I will drop the fuck out of this when they upgrade the phone. ^_^ Gotta work the system.

Uhmmmm. I think there's a setup fee, but whatever. Probably $30 or $40. Gets billed later. I think my monthly bill is $80.64 or something.

So, monthly, it's about on par with the iphone. Only it's open source. And has a keyboard. And most of the major apps are free. And there's a button to install non-android marketplace apps (jailbreak button hur).

My roommate was worried about the actual physical nature of the phone, since that HTCC has historically made phones that break when you look at them sideways.

How's it feel? Does the keyboard slide thing seem like it could break or wear?

A lot better than my last 2 HTCs. Heads above them actually. Keyboard clip mechanism is new compared to the last 2 years of their models.

Can the new technocrati please explain this one for us ignoble luddites?

T-Mobile Hotspots are blanketed over cities like clouds. Basically, they set them up at all the local coffee shops, cafes, fast food joints, malls etc and generally they cost money. They're straight up wifi, which is great when 3G is lagging to shit.

lol

The G1 comes preloaded with some music... including The Most Beautiful Girl in the Room.

It's sort of like a wireless router on a T-mobile platform?

What's the chance of getting the G1 to connect to any wireless router type device?

What? No, it's a wifi hotspot. The G1 has full built in wifi.

Fuck yes dude.  I'm glad the phone is rocking it out!

Hows web browsing?

If it's good web-browsing I might consider it since Tmobile is ass here in central Jersey (20-25mi west of NYC).  Must do research of their service in my area.

It's fantastico.

Any flash support? If so what version (tester here (http://www.adobe.com/products/flash/about/)).

I just looked up my Verizon contract, I can't escape until 6/09.  I think I hate Verizon now.  They havn't put out a cool phone in never.

Not that I know of, I'll let Quinton answer about that though.

So I hear good things from a few forums.  However I need to figure out how good tmobile is near me.  Also it's only 90 bucks to cancel my contract with verizon.

Knock yourself out. (http://www.t-mobile.com/coverage/)

This is awesome.  From:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2331018,00.asp

ShopSavvy is fucking amazing. Seriously.

Ok need to stop looking into this phone.  I don't feel like spending money on it right now.

Just steal bittorrent one.

Damn you schild.  I don't need a new phone.

Yes you do.

The app market was seeded with a handful (50ish?) things, but Monday it will start accepting submissions from J Random Developer (http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/10/android-market-now-available-for-users.html) and I bet we'll see a lot of fun stuff.

However! We are *serious* when we say open.  Don't like the market?  Host your app on your website and users can click on it and install from there (you'll have to go to Settings / Applications / Allow Unknown Sources first).  Hell, write an app that lets you download apps -- write a competing market.  The system will still always ask for user confirmation before installing, showing you want privs the app desires (use the internets, make calls, read your address book, etc, etc) first.

http://code.google.com/p/twisty/  - infocom/zmachine runtime
http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/  - ssh client

Quinton, any plans from inside google for a flash app to support kongregate/newgrounds/armor games and such?

The barcode at the beginning of Chuck is nothing. >_>

Unfortunately I can't discuss unannounced stuff -- there are, of course, a bunch of post-1.0 projects in the pipes but until official announcements are made or code shows up in the open source repositories, any discussion would amount to speculation about future features which makes PR and management unhappy.

I *personally* think that you'd get much better performance in android games if you built a little engine that uses the hardware opengl|ES bindings available to java, rather than wait for somebody to do a flash port.

The irony of performance issues is that the only place it's gotten crappy is in Pac-Man. It seems everyone on earth except Bandai Namco has heard of the word optimize. I'm sure that's not the case, but I found it... strange.

Can you sell your phone stuff to Verizon please.  You would make things easier on me.

$90 to get out of a contract with a company with a shite network and no worthwhile phones on the horizon is pretty damn cheap. Considering the G1 is $360 for T-Mobile renewals and $180 for new customers, you're still ahead. By a good deal.

So it's been a day now.  What do you hate about it?

The battery cover is flimsy, but I'd rather have a battery cover than not have one. The joint feels solid but I fear I'll break it. Most of my problems thus far are with HTC and not with Android. however, it is the single best phone they have made, period. The Touch is nice, but it's just a shitty iphone clone and frankly I'm a little upset that the rumors about the next HTC/G2ish thing is buttonless like the iPhone. Tis weak.


On Android:

• The Marketplace needs options like a filter to get rid of things rated say, below 4 stars.
• More newspapers need to get in on it, the Telegraph is a piece of shit without a tech section. I'm almost tempted to make a game news app on it and restore life to a site I started a few months ago.
• Despite being a vastly superior OS to the iPhone thing, and being completely open, I fear it won't get the attention or respect it needs to throttle the iPhone back to the gimmick arena - much like the Entire Open Source Movement. tl;dr, Still seems like it's a neckbeard thing. This will probably solve itself. Maybe.
• Core functionality on the OS seems lacking in some strange areas, like Organization, etc - but I haven't messed with all of it (of it) - that said, I expect some kickass replacement skins for the things wanted - i.e. turning the pull up/main menu into a list.
• I'm worried that as the OS matures, so will phones, and phones like mine - the early adopter ones - won't be powerful enough to handle new apps - that said, Every Single Phone will Always have that problem. Odds are the iPhone will when the iPhone 2 comes out - but since that's a closed system, I'm sure major hardware revisions of the iphone (bandwidth not withstanding - edge/3g) will only happen once every 2 years, it's like the perfect time line for Apples bullshit engineering team, at the same time, the opposite - if Android gets huge - will be the case for this OS
• I repeat: The Marketplace is simply too simple, needs more rating options, more organization, more subdivisions, more - well - just More.

That said, it's the best phone I've had the pleasure of using, ever, hardware and OS problems aside - and as I said above, all of my OS concerns will probably be resolved by the open source community. Hell, there's already a video player out there that plays more formats than uhhhh Every Other Phone. Time to futz around with that.

Edit: In other words, the phone is a joy and will easily live out it's 2 year contract and by then I suspect the options for Android on the market will be awesome. On that note, Android is an absolute fucking deathblow to everything except the iPhone - and even then, it's just a matter of the community catching up.

I need to run into a TM store and demo the phone sometime today/tomorrow.

I'm posting from a g1 now and its glorious

hahahahahahahah

I demo'd it at the store.  I did the math and it's about $180 to break the contract with Verizon (My Bill + $90).  Then the cost of the phone ($180.00?) plus whatever fees associated with it.

$400.00 big ones I'm guessing when all's said and done.  I have to sleep on it. 

It's a fucking awesome phone though.

Okay.  Here's my big question.  I already have a pretty sweet deal at T-Mobile for my current, non-awesome phone.  Am I able to carry it over to this phone?

Goddamn you.

Yes, you'll have to pay $350 for the phone though and extend your contract, I THINK, how much time is left? It's prorated.

My contract ends this month.  Probably cheaper just to start a new plan, I guess.

They might give you a break
or they might not have any phones for a month
or haiku.

Hmmmmmm...it's on my future-list now, thanks.

I think I may take the plunge tomorrow since my life is not complete without new gadgets.

Anyway, when I was demoing the unit today the only thing i didn't like was the web browser was a little slow when moving it around and zooming.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,442643,00.html

Pretty bad review of the phone from Foxnews.  Yeah I know, I just posted a FoxNews review.  I feel dirty.  Schild, this guy talking out of his ass or is he somewhat right?

It starts with that. You used it today. You should know if he's talking out of his ass.


Funny. I have not experienced this. Possible though, as with any phone. My Sprint coverage here was dick and their service area is basically THE US.


YMMV on what you're watching.


It doesn't feel like an afterthought. It's brilliant, period.


I know there are at least 3 in development. Who the fuck wants one though? For serious. This guy does. From Fox.


Note to developers Part 2 - Use the accelerometer

OOPS THEY ALREADY ARE? HOW WEIRD


True. But they don't want you fucking with shit while you're transferring. How weird.


"Video Player" is EXCEPTIONAL - I think it's like 15k and will only get better. That dev is a fucking winner.


Yes, Kindle style.


Strange considering he was able to compare all the other shit to the iphone.

I expect this to be fixed within weeks by a dev adding extensions ot the android code.

His complaints have a lot more to do with T-Mobile than anything else. He's a dick without an eye for design combined with utility. And...

(http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/i/partypictures/05_14_08/diary/CIMG6150.jpg)

He has a shitty, unkempt, probably can't make it look good beard. Don't trust him.

Well now I have to buy it.

It appears to be the very Hellgate: London of cell phones.

Edit: Actually no, I'm not even responding to that. Don't be a tool. :vv:

 :why_so_serious:

I won't even buy a phone without a real keyboard.

This.

Well that's hurtful.

As for keypads, I've been holding out for well over 2 years for a sweet qwerty key pad. I think this may just be my future lover.

Schild, you've sold it better than any mere schill could. Is it the google love? Is it the D? Who knows

Oh this keypad isn't the end all of cell phone keypads. I never said that. It's an HTC pad. If you don't know what you're getting into, go try it. I like HTC pads. But it's no Model M. Honestly though, I take what I can get when it comes to tech keyboards. I like the HTCs more than the blackberries but not as much as the new sidekick.

The trackball thingy is awesome too.

One of my big reasons for jumping out of T-Mobile was I found, at least in my office building (majority of my time), that I got zero signal.  So his inside buildings complaint is not completely unwarranted.

Hence why I said that was possible with _any_ phone.

I now own one.  I feel like a better person too.

Oh oh, we should be friends. We can IM eachother from our phones. Did you notice that all the IM apps are different and can run at the same time and drop IMs onto the bar at the top when you get a new one? DO YOU HAVE ANY CLUE HOW AWESOME TEXT MESSAGING IS YET I HAVE UNLIMITED TEXTS LETS BE FRIENDS.

please

How is the keyboard different from the Sidekick? From the pictures they look the same. The sidekick one is a solid piece of rubber and the buttons are under it. Does the G1 have separate buttons?

The trackball thing looks just like the Sidekick LX one too.

I only use MSN these days, havn't used AIM in ages.

BUT I HAVE A BROWN G1 AND IT IS THE BEST.

I need a GPS button too and a new clock.

My battery is dead.

My first G1 was broken and I had to get a new one.

Can I be your friend?   :why_so_serious:

Seperate buttons, but they're nearly flush with eachother to pack them all in.

Phones should have friend lists, man that'd be rad. Instead of a contact list, a desktop where it shows people who are online. How neat.

You guys are right, this phone is fucking billiant, the touch screen keyboard is really awesome. Shame we all have to use AT&T though.

So, did you get the 8gb or the 16gb? Black or White?

I think you confused this thread for the artsy asshole effete snob turtleneck thread, which is further down.

Now I will sit quietly in the corner and wait for some enterprising lawsuit hunting hacker to build Android for the iPhone.

i think i saw in the manuel if someone in your contacts is online there is a green light... so a friends list

Leave Manuel alone.

Got one.  Great phone.  Writing apps for Android is a breeze.  Conchords in the included music is winful. 

The battery life is absolutely fucking horrifying.  The only way to get a full day out of it is to disable half the features, notably WiFi, GPS, and (for real power-saving) use of the 3G network.  If you leave WiFi on you'll run your battery to 0 in a few hours, without actually doing anything.  Just letting it sit on a shelf.  Total garbage.  I had to install AnyCut to get a desktop shortcut to the network settings interface, since I have to toggle them 8 times a day.

Otherwise, stellar.

Ah yes, battery life. I should've complained about that, but it won't ever really effect me because you can charge from fucking anything with a USB jack and I'm sitting at my own desk most of the time. My bad.

Yes, the battery life is a fucking problem. I'd suspect they release a better battery eventually though.

The black is uglier than the white... but I'm not quite sold on that either.

I like the general idea though...but won't switch carriers.. look forward to more models.

[edit] Wait, what? Brown G1? :uhrr:

It's bronze, not brown.  I have one.  It looks like a metallic black.

Ah.


I guess on a sidenote, I wouldn't mind seeing more olive/metallic olive phones, as far as earthy colors go.

Hrm, a friend showed me his and I tried it out for 2 minutes.  Loaded a web page and scrolling via touchscreen was extremely laggy and non-smooth (unlike my experience with an iphone, and no I don't own an iphone).  Then the battery warning came up and I handed it back to him.

wasn't impressed, but then again right now I'm happy with m non-data phone anyways.

What webpage? I really haven't experienced that. As mentioned, battery is pretty poopy, but mine lasted all day today and I had the GPS on.

That just killed it for me. Bought my wife a Blackberry Curve a few weeks ago. Her Blackberry was 2 years old or so and the side scroll wheel was shot to hell.
Based on Schild's review i was going to run out and buy this G1 this week for me....but battery life that shitty? You have to disable half the features to get a full days use out of it?
My wife has unlimited broadband/WiFi and GPS and gets DAYS and DAYS of useage between charges on her Blackberry. Im always running around town and having to charge constantly would kill all joy for me.

I figure I'm going to buy a charger dock for the car because I fucking hate hate hate hate leaving it sitting on it's back as I don't want to scuff it. The moment that happens, all my battery woes will float away. As such, I can say I'm not particularly worried. Like, at all.

To be fair, the iPhone has pretty crappy battery life too, with all the toys turned on. One of the things that pisses my off about mine, is that an app or something gets stuck and keeps running in the background sometimes - I can go from a full battery to almost dead in 6hrs, all the while the phone should have been 'sleeping' and has been sitting on my desk (not plugged in). Still haven't figured out what causes that, as 3G is normally off and it does it regardless of that setting. But not all the time!

Okay. So the question is why can Blackbery run wifi and GPS for days and days with no problem and it seems neither Apple nor Google phones can?

I havent used either the Apple or Google phones, but as I mnetioned above my wife has the Blackberry Curve (her 3rd or 4th blackberry) and as far as she or I can tell GPS and wifi are running full time. She usually goes 2-3 days between charges. This is her primary business phone as well so she is doing LOTS of talk time.

Well it's not 3G, so that keeps battery life down a lot too. For wifi and GPS I would guess they aren't actually "on" unless called on by an app (ie: you need a data connection to pull a web page, then it might try to make a wifi connection - either that, or it's got some awesome wifi hardware that hardly uses anything juice, but I doubt that). With no 3G and sleeping wifi/gps it should last a long time. My iPhone will last 2 maybe 3 days if all that is off and some background app doesn't get stuck.

I assume the large touch screen probably also pulls more juice than the smaller non-touch screen the BBs have.

It really depends on coverage and usage.  With the radio off, standby current is ~1.2mA which is about 960hours.  Radio on, ~4.5mA (decent coverage) which is about 250hours.  Of course sync and so on will cut into that.  With a dedicated gmail account (light email traffic, light IM traffic), sync on, signed into IM, I see 2-3 days standby with relatively light usage.

Beware some of the "mobile social network" apps that cleverly try to get a gps fix every N minutes, etc.  They are death.  If you have really heavy mail traffic, you might want to set up a dedicated account and only forward stuff that's interesting for mobile.

We're working to improve battery life in future software versions.

- Q

Okay 2-3 days is about average. Will have to see. But if it really is around 24 hours or so as others have mentioned in this thread......its useless as far as Im concerned.

I don't think I'm capable of being away from a USB port that could charge the phone for a 24 hour period. That seems.... weird to me.

I'm pretty angry that I can't find a way to kill an app that's running though. I don't understand how this feature is missing and it only started bothering me yesterday as one app just kept itself in use and visibly hurt the battery life.

Well the system will force apps to quit if you uninstall them...

But yes, this is an annoying limitation.  We had a lot less memory available until shortly before ship, which reduced the number of apps that would end up surviving in the background, making it less likely to see issues like this.  It's an issue that will be addressed in a future version of the system.

The system design is intended to not have the user worry about if apps are actually running or not (correct apps save state when they go into the background and can be killed by the system as needed to reclaim resources).  Obviously in the face of misbehaving apps this breaks down a little.

As far as 24 hours go, for a heavy user on an always-connected smartphone with active sync, etc, that's certainly a possibility.  For such devices, I've always considered 24hr adequate (you can make it through a day, charge overnight), 48hr nice (you can forget to charge one night and still be fine), and 72hr about the holy grail (you can go away for a weekend and not bring a charger).

And that is really the #1 reason why I just have a normal flip phone.

When I can use one of these phones reasonably and not have to charge for 2-3 days I will go out and get one.


It was facebook.  Although too be fair, I don't think T-Mobile has 3g here in orlando yet.

You city folk. You funny.

I think this would be a great device if not for the battery issues. I'd love to take it back into the mountains and have gps and mapping and be able to look up historical facts of the region, reference tree species, etc. Assuming I could get a signal, of course.

I hope in ten years or so there might be such a device and signal, but meh. I'm perfectly fine with a map and compass and no fucking phone :)

I think I'm stupid.

How do you use the GPS thing on here?  Google Maps wasn't doing anything for me.  Am I completely missing a button here?

This damn thing keeps tyring to sign me into MSN when I'm using it on my desktop.  Son of a bitch.

MSN, eh?  Desktop, what?  It doesn't come with a desktop app.  As far as I know, the only thing you can do with on a desktop is browse its filesystem and drop mp3s in there.

Quinton: I know your specs and averages say what they say, but I shit you not I burned a battery from full to empty in 7 hours doing absolutely nothing.  I was asleep.  A quick review of the t-mobile message boards will reveal that this is a pretty common experience, although not universal.  I suspect it's a misbehaving app or combination of features that made it through testing.  Maybe Google Maps isn't getting swapped out of memory and is continually looking for a GPS fix if GPS is enabled.

I will say that since the system update and since I turned off e-mail sync (but keep in mind my gmail account gets like 10 emails a day) my battery life has gone way up.  I can go 2 days now without charging with decent use (occasional browsing, map checking, and calling), despite leaving WiFi and 3G on.  I leave GPS off if I'm not using it.

My Desktop computer.  I actually had to sign on then sign off for it to stop auto logging me in so I can use it on my computer.

I can't even find my GPS to turn it on and off.

End:  I just figured out I had to turn on sataliette tracking thing.

There are definitely folks seeing some not-so-hot battery life and there are people investigating these issues.  One of the big things I hope we can get into an upcoming release is better tools to help users figure out just what's running down the battery ("oh, the SuperSocialFriendFinder is recording audio every 3 minutes and posting it uuencoded to twitter!", etc)


That's good to hear.  If your mail traffic is that light, sync may not have been your issue.

My Android experience:

Front desk girl @ the brokerage is a friend of mine.  Myself and the two other most tech savvy agents in the office have been telling her to get a G1 for months.  She has a sidekick she hates because it fucks things up by storing everything on the sidekick network then breaking her text logs, or contacts or whatever from time to time for shits.

She early adopted the G1, I was worried that it would be fugly, whoever was responsible for the "leaked" photos that made the screen look like it wasn't even parallel to the keyboard when it was up should be shot.  I think many people expected the phone to be terrible in the looks dept.  Its not.  It does feel plastic but not too cheap/chinese, close though.  The hinge that the screen pops up with feels like something I could break when drunk.  The phone itself looks good, the keyboard feels good but I don't have a kb atm so honestly that means nothing.  Fucking iphone virtual kb sucks cock though, I've used one many times.

Quick anecdote on how G1 makes people better humans:
So she wants to setup ringtones, asks me how to do it.  I say, you can make anything a ringtone now!  She finds out that if she just uses a song, the lyrics will hardly have started before the ring ends.  So she says, this sucks I miss paying $2 for a ringtone and getting what I want.  Waitwaitwait, I install Audacity on her laptop, show her in 5 clicks how to chop up any mp3 into a nice ringtone sized bite and save it.  Then she has any part of any mp3 she could ever want as a ringtone.

Android itself, is well, like Chrome.  Its fucking fast.  I mean really fast w/ 3G on.  Wow so damn fast.

The only app that she has complained about so far is that the G1 can't do like the iPhone and show her voicemails in a list and let her pick which one to listen to.  I really want one.  Though I think there will be much better hardware it comes on.  Also I'm on ATT.  Which is choking on Apple's dick and refuses to release anything decent for fear of giving me an alternative to the goddamn iPhone.  I heard Motorola is making Android phone(s), I think that is my next phone.

The picking a voicemail feature probably won't exist due to T-Mobiles network, perhaps another carrier will have it. I just don't think their voicemail can work in that way without major changes.

As for my next phone, if I have the money and Sony-Ericsson releases one, I'd probably get that. BUT WHY, you say. Well, sure, Sony is having HTC make some of their phones, but their build quality is fucking fantastic, they simply demand higher quality than HTC does. That said, still love my phone, for really the first time ever. I *liked* my A900 and I definitely liked my neopoint back in the day, but this phone I fucking love.

This is the neopoint btw.

(http://www.pdastreet.com/images/hardware/neopoint-1000.jpg)

heh

Callwave has a service that replaces your T-Mobile voicemail. When someone leaves a voicemail it sends it to you as an email with a WAV of the message attached. I can't figure out how to sign up for it on their website anymore though. Apparently GrandCentral (http://www.grandcentral.com/) has a similar service and it's owned by Google now.

More like you download Ringdroid and learn the easiest way EVER to chop up an MP3. Ringdroid is a free app in the marketplace btw.

So tell me how to make the GPS work step by step because I can't get it to actually do anything.

There aren't steps. Just make sure 3G and GPS locational tracking is checked on in the settings and open the map and click my location.

That's several steps.

Maybe if I were explaining it to a 70 year old lady or trying to educate. Most likely, he has these done and he's getting some sort of "Your location cannot be established" error. If he had gone further, I would've responded with, just walk outside.

Walking definitely requires steps

:internet_punch:

WTB Exchange functionality.

I've done this.  I check "Enable GPS satellites" goto maps, hit my location and my house as I leave work.  My location never changes once it locks down on my starting position.  I have to manually update it.

I have to be doing something wrong.

It's funnier when I picture you as McCain trying to figure it out.

And then punching someone out in frustration.

What other settings are toggled in the GPS area? Also, do you have "use wifi locationing" or whatever set also? Or anything like that.

Well it worked finally.  I guess something was messed up last time.

Ah well.

Also, I demand a NES emulator for my G1 like RIGHT NOW.

The Hudson Cardgames you can get on the market are money.  Perfect for nes graphics and sound.

Zombie Run is the best App ever.

Yes.  EVER.

hahahah it's awesome.

The fun part about this is it sends a WAV, there was a period where none of these damn phones could play a wav file (mpeg yes wav no), fortunately the newer phones coming out have started to remedy this.  I would think that the iPhone & the G1 should be fine but you never know until you try, Blackberry didn't add wav support until the pearl and I haven't seen a windows phone that will play it yet (been a year since i seriously looked though).

Hmm. 99% sure my HTC Mogul (8600) could play a wav. Think I dropped one on there in fact.

Android reboots when you type "reboot":

http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1207

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=680

Nice bug there Quinton :awesome_for_real:

heh. Another link: http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/11/incredibly-dang.html

OOPS!

How did THAT get through QA?  :awesome_for_real:

I just typed reboot and pressed enter. It...

returned 29,800,000 results.

Embarrassing as hell.  Kinda mind-boggling that we didn't catch it before ship.  Fixed now in RC30 (which the vast majority of hardware has these days).

$399 for a "developer" phone plus a $25 fee for signing up for the developer's program:

http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2008/12/05/google-launches-android-dev-phone/

Yup.  Pity we couldn't get it launched earlier, but sometimes these things take time to get sorted out.  Overseas shipping includes customs/taxes and is, unfortunately, pretty insane.

http://code.google.com/android/dev-devices.html

The developer hardware is the same base platform as the G1, with slightly different skinning (notably some art on the back cover), a radio that is not network-locked, and an engineering bootloader that speaks the fastboot protocol which allows complete reflash of the system software via USB.

Note that 3G will work in Europe, Japan, etc, but *not* on AT&T's network in the US (you'll get GSM/EDGE), due to AT&T and TMO running on different bands.

Happy Hacking,

- Q

:ye_gods:

Glad you mentioned that.

The USA gets screwed again :(

Hopefully google's going to do something with all that dark fiber and part of that spectrum they purchased...

Ya, one of my school's professors, a visiting professor from Egypt, bought 3 iPhones for his family, just to find out that they would not work in Egypt where he spends 4/5ths of the year. He also said that all his ITunes purchases in the US would not work abroad, since ITunes, it turns out, is region specific. I sent him a webpage on how to set up a proxy server connection and wished him luck.

Google was outbid (http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/end-of-fcc-700-mhz-auction.html) by Verizon Wireless (http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2008/03/so_did_google_w.html) and didn't get any spectrum. The FCC has a full breakdown of the auction results (http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/default.htm?job=auction_summary&id=73) (see the "View Auction Results" link on that page; link appears to be dynamic).

Now that you buggers have been using the phone for a while, any changes in opinion? Any annoying stuff that's come up with prolonged use?

I'm considering ordering the G1 dev model now since the iPhone still hasn't been unlocked.

No, it's rock solid.

One interesting fact is that -- now that both the gphone and the iphone support open development -- the phones are converging.  The gphone had an app to hold your phone up to music and identify it about 10 minutes after the iphone did.  The gphone will have an on-screen keyboard shortly.  It's fairly quickly getting to the point where software is not differentiating at all and the only factors to base a decision on are the form factor (gphone has a real keyboard), the carrier, and the price.

Do we have a top 10 apps thread for Android yet?  I don't have one because ATT can suck my dick and they want me to buy an iphone so bad...

I do have a roommate who will prob get one and a girl at work who wont install anything unless I tell her to.

Sony are reported to be making an Android phone for release early 2009.

Hope it won't be a cheap looking piece of shit like the G1. Then again, it is very well possible that the upcoming SE Android phone will be another rebranded HTC one like the Xperia.  :oh_i_see:

Well, as long it doesn't look like crap, I guess...

Have you used a G1 yet? It's quite study and I've come to not mind the shape, in fact I kinda like it. I dig the back.

I'm not saying the build quality is crappy, but the plastics used look cheap. While I hate the Blackberry form factor, this thing (http://www.kogan.com.au/shop/android-powered-kogan-agora-3G-mobile-phone/) would sure make a nicer impression on someone than a G1.

GLOSSY!  :drill:

Actually, I hoped the G1 would be something along the lines of the HTC Diamond Pro in style... but it's not.

Tiny screen. >_<

Does it look worst in person or something?  All the pictures of it I see look make it look really high quality...

Look more or less the same. I guess expectations weren't met. Seeing how HTC's current self-branded phones look like and then the G1.

Plus, no real headphone jack. Vital feature for me  :oh_i_see:  (well, their music player isn't the bomb either, but a suitable replacement can be expected).

http://androidcommunity.com/t-mobile-g1-now-shipping-with-35mm-headphone-jack-20081120/

That's not a headphone jack, that's a shitty adapter, just like Sony Ericsson (used to) ship(s) with their phones. And I didn't have great experiences with these.

 :popcorn:

Apparently there's a G2 from T-Mobile coming out soon. I hope all these silly tech sites aren't mistaking that silly chinese Dream G2 cheap phone for this thing (it doesn't come with a hardware keyboard nor a touchscreen one  :why_so_serious: ).

Rumor mill says it's the HTC HD but with Android instead of WM.

So I just picked up iPhones for myself and the wife. But the thing I like about the gPhone is that my gut tells me this is the only real competition that could blunt the growth of the iPhone.

In a sense, I feel the iPhone is the pinnacle of the old way of doing things in the U.S. Mobile providers want to control the entire end to end user experience because they feel like that's the best way to make as much money as possible. And having used every PDA and most high end models since Sharp and Casio were duking it out before the Newton got all screwed up, I feel that Apple's entire self-consistent user experience from phone to iTunes to ecomm transactions is the best one there is. But it still about the many points of consumer moneygrabs engagement.

The Android though seems predicated on the belief that embedded ad sales is the future. They don't require all different forms of end-user monetization and therefore are both cheaper to rollout and easier to centrally control. I'm not sure I agree, as the form factor restricts in ways web pages don't, you're still dealing with carriers who have their own views of monetization, and there's other ad sales models are being questioned for their lack of actual revenue being generated. But they also push for crowd-sourced development, which can work. And it's certainly not the software on the iPhone is so fundamentally better because developers can charge money for it (so much of the early stuff was developers simply slapping a dollar amount to stuff they did for free on jailbreak phones/touches).

So I love the iPhone but will still be watching to see if the gPhone goes anywhere. I'm not opposed to early termination fees if there's a much better experience to jump onto.

(http://www.storageserver.be/images/uglyiphoneapp.jpg)

 :grin:

Picked up one and am very satisfied with this. I like the back as well.
Feature list on the firmware update (http://source.android.com/roadmap/cupcake)



multiple fixes to the Email client,  Video recording,  Faster browsing with  cut and paste from the browser.


I can do a quick must have list for apps, but most of it's been covered.

Nobody is allowed to leave android until they allow programs to be closed without turning off the fucking phone. Drained a g1 in five hours with wifi and gps turned off, with power managment turned on. Although Twitdroid was going every 15 and I probably got about 60 SMS in that time and I took three pics.

It's in the works.  You *can* force a program to exit by uninstalling it right now, but I realize this is a big hammer.

Also, for the record, I don't have any involvement in the framework / java level stuff.

Was that every 15 minutes or 15 seconds?  15 seconds is harsh, especially if it hits the network.  15 minutes shouldn't be that horrible unless it's doing some massive data transfers every time it wakes up.

Well, I ended buying an iPhone instead of the G1 because the dev model apparently comes with a 200€(!) shipping and handling fee which makes it way more expensive. My only gripe so far is that the iPhone keyboard doesn't have pgup/pgdn which I need to scroll the log in irssi. Apparently the terminal software should have gestures for those (two-finger swipe), but it looks like they've been broken since the 2.0 firmware. ESC-p/n works, but is a bit of a pain (gesture + keypress) to enter.

Does the G1 keyboard have basic things like CTRL,ALT,ESC,PGUP/PGDN, and arrow keys in it? Those would make using terminal apps so much easier.

Yeah, the shipping situation for the ADP1 is a bit crazy.  It's being looked into.

Keyboard photo: http://flickr.com/photos/broo2/2971712449/ (I just searched for g1 keyboard photos)

What programs are you guys using?  I havn't saved and used many of the programs from the market other than solitaire.

I had 3 updates tonight, and I'm not sure if I downloaded them because the notifications are cleared.  Is there a way to track this?

I am actually not using any! And I only play 1 game! Trap.

I still love my android and when I get into working on it, I'll probably use it a lot more. News on the for-pay store can't come soon enough. I know if I was developing something useful and cool, I'd wait.

Paid apps are deployed in the latest (RC33) release on G1.  I believe people will be able to buy paid apps this week:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/13/google-now-accepting-paid-apps-in-android-market/
Log in to your android market publishing account -- I believe the interface for setting everything up is live.

Also, for hard-keyboard-haters:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/17/htc-magic-is-official-bringing-android-to-vodafone-sans-keyboar/

So I read somewhere that you can "root" (hack? Don't know what this means) your phone so you can have mutli touch screens and a browser that auto turns when you turn the phone.

Anyone know anything about this?

Multitouch what?

http://i.gizmodo.com/5139087/multitouch-implemented-on-g1-android-unofficially

Fascinating.

paid apps are up.

ton of apps just got released, although nothing realy grabbing me right now

the dev phones can tether now though for a 9 buck ap on the market. loks like it anyway

Finally. Couldn't come soon enough for G1 to eventually maybe become a serious end-user competitor. You've all by now I'm sure saw this article (http://www.itworld.com/mobile-amp-wireless/63034/app-store-grows-apps-are-seldom-used) (most people don't use the app after day 1, there's not a huge difference between free and for-pay usage so go for-pay, etc).

I'm also trying to dig up this other article I saw a few weeks back that the AppStore accounted for something like 11-15% (why I'm trying to dig it up) of all mobile downloads in 2008. All mobile downloads, onto a device that at best represents 1-2% of all mobile handsets out there, and then only if you include the non-cell Touch.

Edit: Found it (http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/iphone-accounts-for-14-percent-of-mobile-gaming-market/?biz=1): Of the 8.5mil people who downloaded a mobile game in November 2008, 14% of them were on the iPhone. Additionally, 6 of the top 10 mobile devices used for downloads were smartphones, iPhone and BB Curve at the top.

This looks really interesting, plenty of my mates went crazy when the iPhone got released but I was more meh than ooohh!
But this androide stuff looks a lot more ooohhh to me, but of course in my old fucking Switzerland we don't even have a release date yet.

You guys have any clue? When is it released in Europe?

Also forgot to mention that T-Mobile does not do Switzerland, are we doomed ?

T-Mobile.de are advertising it - clicky (http://www.t-mobile.de/mainsu/g1/0,18301,21983-_,00.html), tempted to get one myself as I'm shopping for a new phone at the moment.

Ive been looking at it, but we dont have the 3G network in Louisville yet. So no real point in getting it.

Given the critera you've expressed as mandatory, multiple day battery life for excursions and the like, I'd fully reccommend you giving thie g1 a miss.

I really can't sort the market though to see what's free and what's paid for.  At least I havn't been updated to do so yet.

So I bought one of these today. Feels nice, seems to work well. A few minor gripes but nothing that makes me want to throw it at the wall yet. The Mrs got an iphone, will be interesting to directly compare the two in actual use.

I was about to make a new thread, but resurrecting this will do just fine.

Is there anything pretty much like the iPhone but not the iPhone?

I know NOTHING about these things. Would you please list me a few competitive/similar products and what they have or don't have compared to the iPhone?

And strictly to topic, and the quoted text, time for your report Iain.

Oh, wait, I know this one.

Android.

Apparently, and why I am not surprised?, the G1 has yet to be released in Crap-Taly. Would be in a few months, but still unavailable. Teehee  :why_so_serious:

And yes, why ask something that was answered in the very same 6 pages thread? I was lazy, in a rush and redundant.

If you aren't opposed to onscreen keyboards, the HTC G2 looks actually pretty good. If your mobile provider is partially owned by Vodafone (like Proximus here in Belgium), you'll be able to get your hands on these.

Been using one as my primary for a couple months now.  I do miss the hard keyboard at times, but love the feel of the device (smaller, thinner, more comfortable to hold as a phone).  HTC's actually calling this Magic (G1 is a t-mobile name, not an HTC name).  Also: more flash storage, larger battery.

http://www.htc.com/www/product/magic/specification.html

Hm.  Need a keyboard.  No sale!

Then just get the G1?

I got one on launch day.  Read the thread, yo!

I'd be willing to pay for an upgrade, but losing the keyboard is a downgrade.

/agree

But but

G1 vs iPhone?

Me needs a graph.

(http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/song-chart-memes-fire-dorm.jpg)

The G1 has a keyboard.

The iPhone has Zenbound.

This is all I would base my purchases on.

I used to think I wanted an iPhone until I got myself a G1 and an iPhone for the wife. There's no way I'd swap with her after road testing them side by side for a week or so.

I have been exactly the reverse.

Falc, it'd be easier if you explained what you wanted to do with it first.

Also, don't consider this a lifelong commitment. "Android" is "G1" today, but who knows a year from now? Meanwhile, the only improvements Apple is likely to make is a better springboard to organize the icons (because after you have seven pages of icons, you realize just how limited the current springboard/desktop is). So think not about the one true phone that will rule them all forever more. Think more about the phone you want to jerk around for the next year or so.

Huh? Apple is *constantly* updating its OSes including the iPhone OS.

I'd say the likelyhood of Apple licensing their OS to other OEMs is pretty near zero, which will limit the options as far as hardware goes to the models Apple currently ships at any given time.  Of course if you're into the iLifeStyle thing and think Steve can do no wrong, this is probably just fine.  What happens in a possible post-Steve Apple?  Hard to say.

So what you're saying is that the Apple CEO is surely DYING, and that you're simply bringing this up to help consumers make an unbiased choice?

TURNS OUT WHAT COSTS AROUND 180$ IN THE US GOES FOR LIKE 500€ IN ITALY!

AM I PISSED? OH NO AM I? AM I?

Oh I agree on the hardware part but this is what Darniaq said:
Basically claiming that Apple has stopped development on the iPhone OS.

As has already been pointed out, you should buy whatever works for you today, for surely next year there will be all sorts of new gadgets from many manufacturers to choose from. 

Apple, as run by Steve today, is not an Apple that will license its OS to others (gives up way too much control over the experience) or give up control of the experience (which many people consider to be a good thing!).  That's pretty much all I'm saying.

I agree that it seems absurdly unlikely that Apple has just decided to stop work on osx-for-iphone and there won't be any big changes in the experience.  Though what I'm most interested in is if they get the stuff under the hood improved -- better stability, a way of dealing with multiple apps and/or background tasks, etc.

That'd be because you're trying to buy an unlocked cell phone. Buy locked and unlock yourself.

I think the "Apple Is (Evil|Jesus)" thread is in Politics.

For the 'Apple won't do new iPhone OS versions' crowd:

Apple to Preview iPhone OS 3.0 on March 17th (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/12/apple-to-preview-iphone-os-3-0-on-march-17th/)

Wow, they're going through major version numbers like nobody's business!

schild you should try path of a warrior if you havnt already.  its entertaining.

The only game I play on any phone is Trap!

Whoa. Crazy ass derail for a throwaway statement that was quoted without the whole "in the next year" part. My main point was that making a phone decision doesn't need to be a lifelong commitment because things can change and you can adapt. And coincidentally, it's even easier now that you can get an iPhone without said commitment.

I merely said that given its very nature, the Android platform is likely to see a lot more changes in the user experience than the iPhone one. And ironically since that point, what have we seen in the 3.0 firmware announcement? A whole bunch of shit that should have been in there in the first place, like: copy/paste, consistent use of landscape/portrait views, and a phone-wide search funciton. And worse, no damned Springboard improvement.

I don't like the G1 devices I've played with. They're slow, clunky, and I suppose the keyboard is mostly for folks used to Blackberries. But I feel that the pace Apple is moving to improve the underlying experience is slothful enough to be based entirely on "product/feature" rollout plans, and not because they're worried about any sort of competition. That's never a good thing.

Slow? Compared to what?

... for Apple. Historically at least, when Apple have tried to sit back and grow fat from their dominant market position, its resulted in them losing market share at a dizzying rate.

UI responsiveness in general. Feels like it takes just slightly longer to do anything, from shifting UI screens to launching a program. It reminds me of WoW responsiveness vs LoTRO responsiveness. My baseline is the iPhone, which has slow parts (Notes for example) but in general feels much more plucky.

But here again, I expect this to improve on the Android with firmware updates. Apparently the software isn't taking full advantage of the hardware capability. Haven't looked into it much, just what I've heard from folks who would know.

It's your imagination. Some things, much like the iPhone are slow. But UI responsiveness? No, not really.

well, you have a sms messaging thread with say 700+ messages in it and  it gets a bit sluggish  :drill:

Since I broke my Iphone and those fuckers wouldn't give me a new one till September I caved in and bought the G1 (needed a phone I can type SMS with RIGHT NOW, not in the 2 weeks they need for a repair). Assholes smelled my desparation and fleeced me for 450 Euros (Unlocked, so I can use it for trips abroad as well).

The UI is a bit less intuitive, but good enough. Any tips for must-have applications? Useable Podcatcher? Tips and Tricks for Iphone Switchers?

So. Installed Cupcake on my dev phone. It's a better experience overall. The on-screen keyboard is a bit snappier than my iPod touch. You can take video with the camera. Most importantly, though, is there's lots of little GUI changes that are nice. If you're using a retail phone from an operator, you'll get the OTA update soon I'd imagine.

I hope they really change the POS UI. Right now I'm basically done with this phone. Rant about Apple all you want, but they know how to make User Interfaces, The Android calender alone shows that nobody ever put any thought in usability.

I don't understand what the problem is, or was for that matter.

The Event Handling is somewhat nonintuitive. You get a very limited list of your next events ( only the next view days, which can't be changed). Every change in views happens over that fold up menu, whereas on the iphone you have the buttons directly on the screen. Editing events has a much cluttier interface. Et cetera.

Yea, I've never opened the calendar on any device I've ever owned, hence why I asked. I figure if I ever need a calendar, I've finally found a job I don't like, and thus won't remember things. Are there no third party calendars worth trying? What about using the gmail calendar through the browser, I would assume that syncs up and such and is easier to edit. Could be wrong though.

Didn't find a good third party alternative yet. I just went the other way and use the calendar on my ipod Touch which syncs with my Gmail Calendar. Quite a roundabout way, but it works because I have to use the Ipod touch for hearing my Podcasts anyway.

I don't use a calendar, like I said. But I just compared the iPod Touch calendar to my android calendar. I don't really see the difference. You just have to click menu to pull up all the stuff that makes it work like the iphone stuff, today, 7day, month view, add event, etc. /shrug Maybe it's a constant use thing that I just don't understand. As far as I can tell, in Cupcake, it works exactly the same, including the usage of the onscreen keyboard.

At the end, it boils down to one big thing, really.

Ipod: Calender -> List = All Events in the Future shown
Android: Calender -> Agenda = Only Events in the timespan you had your calender on (Today, this week, this month)

So you have to go the the exact month you have the Events in to see them. Which kind of invalidates how I use my calendar.

I wish I could sync up google reader to my phone so I get notifications like gmail.

I bought one tonight. My current phone was going down hill so rather than replacing battery and fixing I got the G1. So far so good. Love the feel and the intuitive operation. Havent really needed to open the directions for much at all. I like the black Body Glove soft phone case I got for it.

Any specific applications I should add to it? And if so why do you recommend them? What do they do?

Supposedly Louisville is slated for 3G in November. The frequencies they need to start operation will supposedly be up for grabs in November and then they will start it up.

Edit-
Okay here is a weird question. But why does the T-Mobile page list featured applications that dont seem to actually be anywhere in the market place. For example one called "Locale" which actually seems like a nifty little application letting you set up different profiles of phone features depending on where you might be located at the time. Cant find it anywhere in market place. But its on the T-Mobile website.

Searching for "locale" in the market app finds it for me, and it's also findable at:
http://www.cyrket.com/package/edu.mit.locale

(Yes, it's a bit embarrassing that we don't have a web frontend to the market yet)

If this is the app I think it is, it makes heavy use of the GPS in the background (to identify your location), and this has a pretty big hit on battery life.

Isn't Locale just a part of the Google maps app on the phone? It was present (but not activated) on my phone when I got a G1 a few months ago.

I think you're thinking of Latitude (http://www.google.com/latitude/intro.html).  Locale is an app that adjusts phone preferences based on your location.

Quinton thanks for looking, weird though that I couldn't find it. So here is a question. Video.
/movie viewing?
A) can I download flash in order to use hulu.com? If so what version?
B) is there some sort of software download which I can use in conjunction with my iTunes account  to download and watch tv shows or movies?

I got a 16 gig card for this thing in hopes of using it to watch programming, hopefully it wasn't a waste of money?

No flash.


No itunes.


Convert it yourself?

http://forums.tmonews.com.s52300.gridserver.com/index.php?topic=3261.0

That should have everything you need. Once you do it once, it's cake.

Of course, if you buy stuff off the Apple store instead of acquiring it on the internet, well, I can't help you. I convert all my stuff for the iPod Touch with handbrake and the G1 with Super.

Ya all see this already? (http://www.casualgaming.biz/news/28570/T-Mobile-rolls-out-Google-Android-update)

Thank you very much for the links Schild. Much appreciated. Yes, I admit I have been using either the iTunes store or Hulu for most of my video viewing. Cheap or free (in Hulu's case) and easy. I used to torrent but havent in awhile.

I have to admit I see this as one huge glaring hole in the G1 capabilities. All the cool shit it can do, and I cant watch TV on Hulu (which seems pretty damn stupid considering it will let me view Youtube), or upload multi-format movies and view them?

Youtube has a huge and growing collection of tv shows and movies to compete with hulu.

I don't know when/if this'll come to the G1, I'd imagine so though.


Never gonna happen, video formats are a mess and a lot are processor intensive pieces of trash.

Love the 1.5 update.

Need dual touch screen now.

Anyone install different themes yet?

Me want Android, but me want it on Verizon.

All I can tell it has done for me is add the ability to shoot video (but still not upload or watch my own movies) and some new "Phones" application to the main screen.

I can't answer questions about T-Mobile software anymore because I'm using a dev phone. Thing is stripped clean. Needless to say, it's faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasteeeerrrrrrrrrrrrr when compared to my old phone.

Dev phone is expensive.

Yea, well, it's also unlocked. Of course, I'll probably upgrade when HTC brings out Lancaster with the hero revision of the OS.

I need a new phone and I don't want a iPhone.
Would I like HTC?
[ ] yes
[ ] no

Don't fight it! Just get one.

One of us!

One of us!

One of us!

Seriously, a day with an iPhone will blow you away. Screw HTC.

(see if someone will lend you one, a lot of folks are upgrading so someone may have a 3G or Edge iphone waiting to get offloaded)

Ok, I am biased by the iPhone, and even after extensively using the G1 for a few weeks on and off, I still don't quite understand the allure. The hardware I don't care so much about (it's clunky and ugly, but that's easy to change). It's the user experience. It just feels like a generic PDA that seems to do everything slower and with the same compartmentalization I'm used to from PDAs. Any Blackberry can do that easily enough.

So what is it about Android? The promise of open-source? The promise of some future version? More appropriate alternative to those used to tactile thumb keyboards? Or is there some awesomeness I'm missing?

Just curious, what's the monthly bill on a google phone? For me, with an Edge iPhone still, I'm paying ~50 voice, 20 data. If I upgraded to a 3G, I'd have to pay 30 data. If I want to tether my new 3GS, I'd have to pay extra for that! Seems like daylight robbery to me, especially since I already pay ~50 a month for DSL at home.

AT&T hasn't said if there's going to be a charge for tethering and if so what the price will be. People are spreading the "tethering will cost $55" rumor around but AT&T flatly denies this.

For my G1, I'm paying 75/month for 600 "whenever" minutes with unlimited nights and weekends, plus an unlimited 3G data/SMS plan (This is a month-to-month t-mobile plan).  There was a tethering program for root users, but I'm not sure what the current status of that is.

Well, this rumor is being spread by some dude that works at the AT&T store in Northgate Mall in Seattle! Shame on him!

Apparently he didn't read the memo:

http://www.facebook.com/ATT?v=app_7146470109

Fun fact -- it's hard for carriers to actually prevent tethering since they stupidly focus on trying to cripple the client devices or guilting users into paying for more expensive plans.  I pay $60 for an AT&T data+voice plan (cheapest "unlimited" data plan they had a year or two ago when I switched) and use the SIM with any number of devices, with or without laptop attached with no pain.

There are a number of tethering programs out there that don't depend on low level OS support -- all you need is to be able to install an app, for the app to be able to make outbound tcp/ip connections, and for there to be some way for the app to communicate with the attached device.  This is possible on all modern smartphones, to my knowledge, either as base OS features, or with readily available "hacks".

If the HTC Magic had a built in headphone jack, I'd be there. I don't get why HTC is still clinging to that shitty multifunction USB port thingy.

I'm pretty sure they finally got the message.  To the best of my knowledge, all their post-Magic Android devices have a 3.5mm headphone jack.  Wish they had done that for Magic though.  That's my only gripe with the device.  I miss the hard keyboard, but it's a great phone.

The multifunction USB port is *awesome* because it exposes a TTL level serial port which is just about the best thing evar for kernel debugging.  They just need to stop using it for the headphone interface.

HTC Magic (aka "T-Mobile myTouch 3G") coming to T-Mobile USA end of July/August:

T-Mobile USA Unveils the T-Mobile myTouch 3G aka HTC Magic (http://www.slashphone.com/t-mobile-usa-unveils-the-t-mobile-mytouch-3g-aka-htc-magic-226141)
T-Mobile to sell new Google phone in August (http://tech.yahoo.com/news/nm/20090622/tc_nm/us_tmobile_android)
T-Mobile's Second Android Phone Won't Come With Keyboard (http://tech.yahoo.com/news/pcworld/20090622/tc_pcworld/tmobilessecondandroidphonewontcomewithkeyboard)

I just got the HTC dream(same as teh t-mobile g1) on Saturday.
I get to work this morning and see that t-mobile has announced a new phone. I figured this is typical as you can never seem to keep up with technology, but in my case it it always seems like the next fucking day is when they announce these things.

To my relief though I see that T-Mobiles new phone is just the HTC Magic here in Canada which we already had. So I'm happy I'm not behind the technology curve again :)

That being said I love my new Dream. It was a toss up between that and the new iphone3g s but I don't feel any regret at all for going for this and it has all been good so far.
My only niggling complaint is that the apps are stored on the phones memory and not the SD card. I know that I can root the os and correct that myself but that should really not be necessary.

Overall though I'm a pretty happy camper.

Apparently I will need to try each.

Pre > all

*ducks*

Got a Magic, the thing owns.

Am considering rooting it, but every custom ROM claims to be Baby Jesus and implements that silly Hero theme, so fuck it.

If you do Root it, let me know how it goes as I am thinking of doing this.

Interface vid for (unannounced) Sony Xperia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcVdcStE9po)


All I want is nice camera phone like this mixed with the slick walkman phone features... But I figured it's worth mentioning. It's android, 8 mp cam, with 3d acceleration.

Ah shit, the Xperia is Android now? When the X1 was announced it was WinMo. Well, this is interesting.

The look of those stacked cards needs a lot more work.

HTC's Hero has a nicer interface (the weather raindrops... nice touch!), but the Sony hardware is nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCodXvFrz5E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCodXvFrz5E)

[edit] I said "nice" 3 times..  Sorry about that. :uhrr:

I like those widgets on the Hero.  Not sure which would be better, the G1 or the mytouch.  Hrmrmrm.

What I want from SE is their hardware, the standard Android interface, the HTC keyboard (unless SE comes up with something equivalent) and maybe dialer, and some XMB alike media player.

 :oh_i_see:

--edit: Also, haven't rooted my Magic yet. Every ROM seems to have issues I don't want to deal with, especially those battery runtime related ones.

I personally prefer sapphire (aka Magic, aka MyTouch), as a better phone (smaller, fits better in my hand, larger battery, more flash for installable apps), but if you're a heavy email/im/messaging user, the lack of a hard keyboard may be a deal breaker.

I suppose the question becomes, since we know the G1 has been simply hacked for multitouch (afaik), will the HERO Rom net multitouch on the G1 and beyond (for phones that didn't ship with it)?

Question:

I am coming to the US of A with my brand new HTC Magic. Of course, my internet connection, unless I find open wirelesses, will be unsuable as there's no roaming for my lousy Italian 2gb/month contract.

GPS will then be pretty useless.

Is there any way (hacks, cracks, tricks) to pre-download maps I am interested in and have the GPS work without internet access? I mean, the locator is always on, if I understand the technology right, so the problem is only to see yourself on maps (that you are supposed to download on the go), right?

Sorry for sounding as technological as my grandmother, but I really know nothing about telephones.

Sadly, the maps app does not have a way to pre-cache map tiles.  I believe this is partially due to limitations in how the map data can be used (since it is provided by third parties under license).  I'm not aware of anyone hacking the maps app to cache or building a competing app which does, though it's not impossible that somebody is doing that.

As we're pretty backwards in terms of cellular network options here in the states, I don't think you can buy a prepaid SIM or anything like that (but maybe I'm wrong!).

T-Mobile used to sell these. Dunno if they do anymore.

Thanks a lot. Turns out it's very expensive for me to use internet access while in the US but apparently I can, so I will probably use it as a final emergency solution. Like login, locate myself, logout. My fee, while abroad, will be 10 euros for 5mb of traffic. Harsh.

Make sure you turn of Internet access before coming over. If you leave it on accidentally and there are background Internet apps that "poll" regularly (email is usually the culprit) you may end up with thousands of Euros in charges as people with iPhones have found out when traveling with their phones.

Thanks Trippy. That has been my main concern since I got the Magic, cause I am not even sure how to turn that off. Better, I know how to switch ALL connections off, but I would like to keep the wireless on to pick up open hotspots while at the same time being supersure it won't ever use the pay-to-connect built in function. And I am still not feeling comfortable about it.

I've been bugging people about adding a feature where you can keep wifi on when in "airplane mode" (GSM/UMTS radio disabled).  Maybe in an upcoming version of the platform.

What you might try is dialing *#*#INFO#*#* then selecting the Phone Info panel, MENU, More Options, Disable Data and Disable Data On Boot.  I think that should be in production Magic builds -- you'll have to go back through the same sequence again to turn things back on, but I believe if you turn data off that way it is not possible for apps to re-enable it behind your back.  Be sure to test first, YMMV, etc.

Mmmmm if I got it right, Apndroid (http://www.cyrket.com/package/com.google.code.apndroid) is what I am looking for. It prevents the phone from roaming for "data" while keeping the "voice" signal active. Says it bluntly modifies APN names preventing the phone from using them, without cutting out the normal signal.

EDIT: This too (http://martin.adamek.sk/?p=45).

Does it make sense?

Yup.  If the device has no matching APN info in its local database, it won't be able to initiate a data connection.  Voice will not be affected.

There's a simple setting called Wireless > Mobile Network > Data Roaming, which you uncheck. There.

I live in Belgium near the German border and go back and forth quite often. When on foreign networks, the phone refuses to do data.

Anyone using Google voice on their android? If so how well it does it snap in to the existing phone? (In Canada and unable to use it)

From the info I gathered from Italians in the US with my same Italian provider, unchecking that option prevents them from talking, too. Don't ask me why, just field experience  :awesome_for_real:

Ah shit my bad. It's definitely Windows Mobile. I thought I should correct myself here...

Still nice though.. and X2 as well. Too bad North America sucks.

Uh, no. That video you linked here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcVdcStE9po) is definitely XPERIA (right screen shape) running Android. The current Xperia is of course WinMo. Not like they can go back in time and change that.

doh! i correct myself on the correction then. i'd like to get it, but it's just too much. i don't mind windows mobile (or windows now, for that matter).

I fully intend on getting the XPERIA any way I can once it's released with Android. Hopefully an unlocked one.

I finally slapped a custom ROM on my HTC Magic. It's actually pretty nice, it let me get rid of the HTC stuff, which unbroke various things. And it seems faster alreay without overclocking the CPU.

As far as the Android Xperia goes, I wish these Sony Ericsson faggots would release some more information. Right now it ain't clear what OS it'll run. That UI video could be very well a fake. One reason I believe this is because what was shown was even more gimmicky than HTC's TouchFlo. That's not usable, that's just shit. Plus that button on the phone strangely resembling the Windows logo...

I seem to have sold myself on an Andriod phone somehow, trouble is that my options seem limited to the G1 at the moment.  Considering I likely won't have this BB Curve after October 15 and I'd like to do a transfer of my rather large address book, I don't have a lot of time to wait for the X2 to arrive, or the rumored HTC Desire, or anything not a G1 or myTouch.

G1 seems like a winner due to hard keyboard, but I'm not at all sure how much a OSKB will piss me off.

Ah, the fall Android device announcements have started:
http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/US-EN/Consumer-Product-and-Services/MOTOBLUR/Meet-MOTOBLUR

Motorola blurs something alright, the line between ugly and uglier.

The pamphlet makes it sound nice.  Waiting and seeing.

I have to say that I am completely baffled by your sense of aesthetics for hardware.  You were pointing out some of the most godawful hideous phones I've ever seen the other day as the second coming of the robot jesus, and now you're hating on this device, which is pretty decent in my opinion.

I watched the video just now so I could see if there was a picture of Linda McCartney on the back or something, but no, it looks like most every other black touch phone...?

Still waiting for the Sony Ericsson Rachael aka apparently Xperia X3.

Well, while we are wishing here, I'm waiting for a Verizon Android phone so I can get the company discount before I am laid off.

The body looks okay -- nothing special. The Home button, though, is a horrible design decision or did red stop being the universal color for "DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER" while I wasn't paying attention?

I think the color red means other things in the current era of consumer electronics for laymen.  Coupled with black, I think it means "I like Nickelback and watch Sons of Anarchy".

I missed that bulletin.

Well, you just don't hang out with enough 16 year olds, man.

Anyone have plans of picking up the HTC Hero next month? Trying to decide if I want to exchange my Pre for it or not.

I'm still looking around.  It's a possibility but I can't say for sure.

Out of curiosity, what makes you want to replace the Pre?

Mainly poor battery life, not a big fan of slider phones and I just can't get used to the keyboard. Couple of minor things too like no Facebook app (yet), can't change e-mail/text alert sounds, vibration is very weak. After I put my music on it only leaves me with 500mb, it would be nice to have a microSD slot.

I agree about the MicroSD, that's basically a necessity.  Even the Wii lets you save things to a SD card now.

Soon....

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2009/10/robot-invasion-android-and-google-voice-coming-to-verizon.ars

Great.  Turns out I will be employed by TCCC at least until December 31, which should mean that I can get the corp discount on a Tao.  Also the hardware specs seem nice; I'm hoping I can easily deflect chuckles and sneers from the iPhone users.

I am intrigued! 

Not a chance.

Hopefully you are commenting on the personalities of the iPhone users and not on the Tao hardware.

Reviews say the Hero can't handle the heavily modified Android. Lots of stuttering/slow downs when transition between apps and such.

Still hoping the CLIQ comes out in Canada sooner, but it won't happen. The only Android phone worth buying is the Dream.

Yea I've read that too and some mixed reports that the stuttering is almost all gone with the new software updates. I have 3-4 days after it comes out to exchange my Pre, although I've grown to like a lot more now that I've had a month with it. Dropped it last week and cracked the corner of it :cry:

So it's faster? Cause I wouldn't mind getting the Hero if the stuttering is fixed or negligible. I'm running an HTC S720 with WinMo 6.1, it can't be worse than that, can it?

Thought you wanted an actual keyboard.

I'm running out of options here and the Dream is "old" by phone standards. Not to mention the CLIQ is almost a full year out by all reports I can find in regards to it coming to Canada.

I was thinking about a couple of heroes but the wife drops her phone a lot.  Anyone able to recommend a good case for frequent phone droppers?

Exchanged my Pre for a Hero today. The only way I've gotten the os to stutter is when I loaded up every page with multiple widgets and was playing a song on last.fm. Great phone so far, no complaints at all. The customization of the UI is amazing

My alarm isn't working anymore! I've been late at work for two days in a row now!
I set up the default android alarm and it just doesn't ring if the phone is in standby. Oddly, when I check the phone and I turn on the screen it goes off as soon as I do it, but it doesn't fire until the screen is touched and the phone awakened by the standby mode.

It is driving me nuts, any idea? I didn't do/installed much at all on this phone and I am not running any kind of modification. I even downloaded another alarm from Android Market and it has the same problem. It's like the phone goes into a DEEP SLEEP mode and it doesn't allow the alarms to work until it is manually awakened from standby. Which makes alarm useless.

Buy an alarm clock? :oh_i_see:

I'm helping!

Sadly enough, that's what I'm going to do  :uhrr:

Actually I use the daily alarm on my BB to let me know when to go home, so I will be in the same situation eventually.

Odd that the alarm doesn't work.  What device?  What OS version? 

HTC Magic. OS... uhm... Android?  :grin:

No really, what do you need to know? It says: firmware version 1.5. Do you need the kernel version?

This is almost certainly a userspace/framework issue and not a kernel issue.  HTC Magic is an HTC build, not one of ours, so it's possible they broke something, but the basic alarm manager stuff would be pretty hard to break (all kinds of stuff depends on it).  Possible that the alarm app has a bug.

Basically the situation you see is:
1. set an alarm
2. let the screen turn off
3. time of alarm passes without alarm going off?

I just tested this and it works for me (alarm wakes device up and makes annoying beeping noise), but I'm using a much newer build (newer than donut/1.6).

So HTC Hero, anyone get this?

I picked mine up this past Sunday. The first Best Buy that I went to was sold out and it looked like it was selling well at the second.

Quinton, I solved the alarm issue. TaskKiller was the problem. If I used to kill all ongoing tasks AND THEN setup the alarm it didn't work. Like if task killer killed some required process. Please note that I never used TaskKiller AFTER setting up the alarm, only before. Anyway, app issue and not an OS one. Thanks for helping.

What's the difference between the Hero and the G1 other than the keyboard?  Anything significant?

Hero is using a heavily modified version of Android, where the G1 is using the vanilla OS. I think.

Well the core OS is not (to my knowledge) that heavily changed, but HTC replaced the launcher/homescreen, has a bunch of custom/replacement apps, their own widgets, etc.  So it should happily run apps and so on, but it looks pretty different because they went and gave it a new look at the app/device level.

Anyone know anything about Motorola Sholes/Droid besides it doing what iPhone doesn't do, has Android 2.0, and is Verizon's first Android device that supposedly isn't locked down like the rest of Verizon's shit? I'm on Verizon and have been waiting for a good phone to come out on Verizon, so have some hope for this one.

On a side note, I had a facepalm moment after I tried to search for "sholes" and found 6 pages of the word "assholes." 

Still no stuttering / lag problems during normal use?  That is my only concern, other than when and how the Hero handles Android updates (doesn't look like OTA).

Nope, still haven't had it lag or stutter on me yet. Yea I have no idea if they're going to even bother updating the Android version on here, probably not for a while after new versions come out if they do.

You'll be hearing a lot more about Verizon/Motorola Droid very shortly.  I'm a bit biased, but I think it turned out to be a pretty nice device.

Processor?

From Engadget:


So uhmmm, nevermind?

I'll probably take a pass on the Droid Eris, but the HTC Droid does look really nice.

http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/US-EN/Consumer-Product-and-Services/Mobile-Phones/Motorola-DROID-US-EN

New GPS maps for Android 2.0 phones (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGXK4jKN_jY&feature=player_embedded)

Sexy doesn't begin to describe it. Apple better get that shit ported stat.

(http://www.filedump.net/dumped/thegamehaschanged612567515081256754095.jpg)

And I, for one, welcome our new Google overlords.

 :awesome_for_real:


Sidenote: Motorola Droid $199 price point. Now as long as Verizon doesn't try to gouge on price plans I will be happy as hell come 11/6.

Previous posts confused me, I'm low on brainpower lately.  I'm getting the Verizon offering due to corp discount, so I'll be asking for the what, the Motorola Droid?

Holy  :drill:

The shout out to the Verizon Droid at the end along with the drawings of the Droid at the beginning was interesting.  I read elsewhere that Google had a direct hand in designing Motorola's Droid.  Maybe that has some bearing on the Droid being showcased in the video clip.

If you want the Motorola Android phone that is releasing 11/6, then yes, it is the Motorola Droid.

I read that as well, that Google damn near designed the phone completely during their "consulting" of it. I don't put stock in them contributing as much as I've heard, but I don't doubt they had a hand in it to a good extent.

We provided quite a bit of feedback and worked closely with Moto on the software.  It's a Google Experience Device, so we delivered the final software build, as well.  The hardware and industrial design is theirs.  I'm sure they got feedback from Verizon on the ID -- that's very common between carriers and oems.

So is this an Android-dependent upgrade, or can other devices using Google Maps eventually have the same tech?

Right now it requires Android 2.0.

Want.

I do know there is functionality in android to disable things, and I just hope that verizon hasn't disabled TOO much in the hopes they can nickle and dime you for ringtones, pictures, and music. I really hope they've abandoned their V-Cast bullshit, for example.

Verizon has said that the phone will be "wide open" but I bet they will at least lock down ringtones.

So is ATT ever going to start carrying a fucking android phone?  I'm sick of my blackjack but don't want an iphone, and I need tethering. I need it to live.

I hope Tmobile gets the android 2 at some point.  I'm assuming so.

See if I had waited a year with Verizon I could of gotten this one.  Damnit!

They were supposed to release one in August (the HTC Lancaster) but it got cancelled. Lastest (I think) rumor has Dell building AT&T an Android phone for next year.

Great, so not only do I get to pay $60/mo+ just for data, if I have issues I get to talk to 'bob' from India.  Awesome.

You can buy the latest generation HTC phones without contract fully unlocked for $500-$600. Put your AT&T SIM card in, configure a couple of settings and you've got Android on AT&T.

If you're feeling cheap, then yeah, you have to wait a couple more years for anything useful on contract.

Meanwhile Sony Ericsson is going to formally announce the Rachael/X3/X10/Infinity/Whatevernameitgottoday. If the supposed "brochure leak" isn't some fake shit, we'll have a Snapdragon phone with 4" 24-bit WVGA OLED screen and 32GB of internal flash.

And as we know Sony, it'll cost you a kidney.

Need parallel of this with Verizon.

So.

T-mo has some crazy shit going on. Nationwide outages, HOWEVER, it is not effecting Android-based phones.

Tinfoil hat on for Google Cell Phone Control Conspiracy incoming.

Sure is affecting Android phones here.   

Too bad Verizon (and Sprint) aren't using GSM.

I am a major fanboy for the new Droid.  Its everything I have ever wanted in a phone; bonus is its on the Verizon network.   :awesome_for_real:

I just want to have it in my hands to play with for a bit before I go completely batshit for it.

How is it different than other Andriod phones, like the MyTouch?

:pedobear:

Do you have one already?  Full run down please if you do.

Yeah my G1 went to shit for a few hours last night.

This the new Moto one? If so, I second the request for a full run down.

Also wanting to know the run down. Also, is Verizon is gimping anything on the phone, being Verizon and all (I heard no, but still good to ask imo)?

Actually decent hardware review from AOTS

http://g4tv.com/attackoftheshow/gadgetpr0n/68899/Motorola-Droid-Phone-Review.html

Surprisingly, MSNBC's review (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33627680/ns/technology_and_science-wireless/) was informative for a user's point of view.

There were 3 minor complaints (of course, ymmv compared to the reviewer's):


tl;dr: Flat keyboard could have been better, slight stutter when using multiple programs, while phoning someone the directions from the google map navigation didn't stop while the phone was ringing.

Is there a way to use google navigation with the voice commands and just say "give directions to <contact name>" or any app to make it happen? I'm just thinking if google navigation could pull the address from a contact list, while not the most used application for most, that could be very helpful at times (for example, when trying to give directions to a designated driver).

Yes.  Its all integrated into the OS.  Also, to answer your question from earlier; Google had most of the creative control on this one.  This is, for most intents and purposes, a true google made phone. 

This is a huge shift on Verizons part.  In addition Apps will be pretty open for development.  3 things won me over; QWERTY keyboard, USB 2.0, and the audio jack.  Pure love!

Excellent, thanks! Now to wake up early to go get in line (as is expected according to my VZW store manager buddy ><) before work so I can get mine tomorrow  :heart:

I'm going by the VZW store tomorrow but I'm not waiting in a fucking line.


Not sober, anyway.

I think I have cleared the final hurdle with my wife.  If all works out I will be heading to the store tomorrow to get me a couple.

I can 't put down the droid, so awesome  :heart:

Hello from my new Android,fuckers.  It is a tad quirky when it comes to posting here but in general it it neato.

How bad is the keyboard?  The biggest knock I've heard is that they made it almost perfectly flush.

Oh God I hate you.  I am soooo jealous!

At least it seems to shaping up that when Nov. 2010 comes and my Sprint contract is over I'll have a plethora of awesome choices to replace my Pre with.

I think the keyboard is pretty good, given the constraints (13.7mm thick device).   You're never going to get as nice a keyboard as the original sidekick or a blackberry on a thin slider like that, but I think they did a good job with what they had. 

Quinton, you probably can't talk about it. But are we going to see a Dev 2 phone any time soon built on a more robust piece of hardware?

I don't understand why the choice was made to include that comparatively huge directional pad on the Droid instead of enlarging the keyboard.

There are plans for more unlocked developer devices in the future (beyond ADP1), but I don't have any details I can share before they launch.  Feel free to speculate wildly -- that's the usual procedure.

Fuck it, Sony needs to hurry up releasing that goddamn X10.  :uhrr:

Has anyone found a way to sync their Android bookmarks to Google Bookmarks? It seems like it should be integrated like gmail contacts and calenders are.

For the Droid, where's the question mark on the slide out keyboard? It's not in alt-space (symbols) or on the keyboard.

Isn't that it between the L and Enter keys? It's not even in the alt-space.

Why yes it is. Thanks, now I'm going to go try to bite my own ear, gah :oh_i_see:

Ah, I just figured out how to use the pointer thing, and it rocks.

The keyboard (which I am using to type this post) is fine as far as flatness of the keys goes.  The thing I am getting used to is the huge width, coming from a Curve.  Overall, I find the keyboard to be a solid device, plus it hides well.  The Droid is compact and I like it.

^^^^^

I have to wait until Friday to get the Droid - annual renewal and all.  Saves me 400 bucks this way.  I think I can make it!

It's great.

So Verizon has the "Connect" plan with unlimited data/text/picture&video messaging starting at $69 a month but when you price out the droid online, you get the option of "Select" for $59 (no unlimited data), "Email" for $79 no unlimited text or picture/video message, or "Email & Messaging" for $99 which finally seems to be the equivalent of the $69 non droid plan.

Looks like you get raped to the tune of $20 a month if you want unlimited text/multimedia messaging?

Anyone care to share what plans they got hooked up with at what cost?

The guy told me there is a $30 unlimited data portion that you have to get.  I'd have gotten that anyway and didn't press him for if it was really mandatory; I'd suggest getting it anyway just because if you are using it properly you will be killing the bandwidth.  I got the basic 450 minute plan ($40) and the 250 texts plan ($5), since I don't text much at all and mostly just get calls from the wife and Killjoy.  Also got the $8 insurance thing since I had a funny feeling and it was just $8.

I like how Verizon's "unlimited" data plan has a 5 GB/month cap. Fucking marketing people. :oh_i_see:

(5 GB/month is a lot, I'm just complaining about the misinformation).

I thought AT&T does the exact same thing. 

My complaint is they have a $69 a month plan that covers 450 minutes of voice, unlimited data/text/mms yet somehow that isn't available for the droid.  Of course AT&T pulls similar shit with $30 data for iphone/blackberry while charging $15 data for other phones that aren't as web/email friendly.

On a happier note I just found out I qualify for 20% reduced rates with Verizon.

They don't, at least not for the iPhone. "Enterprise" devices like the BlackBerry do have caps.

old news.  All carriers have the 5gb fine print.  There was a huge stint on the Pre boards because of it on Sprint as well.  The fact is though that unless you abuse it to retarded extents, they won't do anything.  I've gone over 5gb of data on my Pre every month since I've had it due to Pandora and I have yet to have a problem.

So a thought ....The Google-maps gps looks fantastic, but only available in the US so far. If/when they ever port this to Europe , I think i'd rather leave this baby in my pocket if i decided to take the car on a ride down the continent.
The roaming-charges would be hilarious. Or did I misunderstand the whole thing and it actually uses satelites also?

If it works like Google Maps app on other phones: it uses your phone's GPS (or cell tower triangulation) for location but the maps and directions are all over your data connection (except for a bit of caching).

I just got back from ATT and Verizon since I'm phone shopping and the 'rola Droid kicks all asses.  The speed is the main thing I noticed, coupled with the shear amount of freedom you have with apps.  The FREE GPS navigation is a big plus, because systems like Blackberry charge an extra $10/month for the same features.  Not only that, but it wont be difficult to dev. your own navigation apps for various other uses, like Marine or Aviation, etc.

Note:  Verizon now has a "buy one Blackberry, get another phone of equal or lesser value free" promotion.  Sooo, you can buy a BB Storm2, etc. for the wifey and get an HTC Eris for free.  I will say the HTC is a better construction than the 'rola Droid (as usual, Motorola builds shoddily)...  but the power of the droid over the pure is noticeable, albeit the Eris is still better than a BB imo.

And obviously, tethering a Verizon phone, specifically a droid (which will have greater bandwidth and wider 3G coverage) makes more sense at $30/month rather than being stuck with a Blackberry from ATT and data/tethering for $60.  Note:  iphone cant tether as of yet.

BUUUUUUUUUT, word on the street is the 1GHz smartphones will be out for the holidays this year.  So, I may wait until then... kinda dumb going entry on a proc. half the speed of a Snapdragon.  And you can pretty much guarantee the Snapdragon entry prices wont be more than $300.  For an xtra $100 I'll gladly wait for the extra power.

I always was under the impression that HTC churned out some pretty shitty build quality phones (hence the new model every 2 weeks), maybe I need to take another look.

I have read quite a few conflicting articles on tethering the droid 1 was as you describe and acted like it was available now then there is this (http://www.slashgear.com/verizon-confirm-tethering-for-motorola-droid-in-early-2010-0462765/)  that states early next year for $15 a month.  Anyone out there actually went down to a store and asked them what is available right now?

They made it seem like tethering was avilable now, but given the intelligence level of the salespeople I'm pretty sure now that it was for a different phone.

Posting from my droid. 

I hate you. You too, Yeg.


Damnit. I can resist.

Sprint 4g available in Austin now, is there a decent android 2.0 phone in the pipe for Sprint?  My contract with AT&T is up in 4 months.

Does sprint even have any 4g phones?  Last I looked all of them were 4g compatable but not 4g capable (i.e. they can connect to 4g networks but not get 4g speeds).

If they don't I would imagine they will very shortly. The 4g speeds almost make my dream of eliminating wired internet service a reality.  I wonder what the caps are on the unlimited plan?  At 3-6mbs I doubt they hold to the traditional 5gb limit.

Interestingly enough sprint's website says that 4G is unlimited but 3G is limited to 5gb. 

Sprint has a 4G USB modem for connecting your computer.

Samsung is supposedly working on a 4G Android phone but who knows when that will be available?

A marketing rep. for At&T told me to hold off on buying ANYTHING from AT&T (or anyone for that matter) until february 2010.  I believe that probably coincides with some kind of 4G Android phone they have in the works.  Technically, she was violating NDAs telling me this info. actually.  There's a reason they're giving away iPhones and Blackberrys right now.

In other news, most of the AT&T salespeople have Verizon.    :awesome_for_real:

My advice is to hold off on buying anything from AT+T until... death.  Yours or theirs.

Is it too early to complain about the Android Market?

No, complain away as it will keep me from buying a cell phone.   11 years clean!

Just pre-ordered a Nook.  Good times.

I love the Droid.  Browing is almost instant and there are some awesome widgets.  I got 1 for the weather from weather.com and with a simple press it gives me hourly, 36 hour, or 10 day forecast.  Also it automatically updates for what area I am in.

I am still getting used to the music player, which I also love.  One neat feature is it will turn off when I unplug the stereo jack - very nice feature.

Weird, my music player keeps playing, after unplugging it, until I shut it off or pause the music player. Also, the screen's sleep timer isn't staying. Are you using the default player or did you download one of the apps?

Another thing, I keep setting it to 1 minute until it sleeps and it returns to the default 15 seconds from time to time.

I don't know how to turn off virtual-keyboard clicking.  I think it was off when I got it but I don't know how I turned it on.  Or if I did.

The only setting I know for that is in the following area: Settings->Language & Keyboard->Android Keyboard (Onscreen Keyboard Settings)->Uncheck Sound on Keypress. Other then that, I don't know of any settings on the default phone and don't know if there is an app that may have something to do with it.

Default.  I like it.  I really have not done much modifying beyond the default settings - they seem to work just fine for me.

Not that I don't think that's cool and all (it is), but it sounds remarkably like the iPhone. Maybe we'll see some divergence in 6 months?

What would you like to see change? Not trolling, I'm honestly curious. I have an iPhone and outside some control issues on Apple's part I like the hardware and software design. Right now it seems like there isn't much room for hardware differentiation in the industry, outside of speed upgrades and additional sensors. For data oriented phones like the droid you need as much screen space as possible. That kind of limits your basic design to a) one giant screen or b) one giant screen with a keyboard attached.

It seems like until we get malleable OLED displays the industry is going to be hard pressed to something different with form factor while still supporting data rich phones.

On the software front, it seems that the constraints for developers are pretty similar on both platforms. Google has better hooks into its services which is a good thing, and the Android store is more open so we should see some better apps there. Still, I'm not seeing a ton of room for differentiation. I think that is one of the reasons APple is cleaning house; they have a solid piece of hardware with reasonable software support like everyone else, but they have the iPod/iTunes brand which gives them a big leg up on the competition. Google has a very strong brand as well, but doesn't have the hardware reputation to drive sales.

Supposedly Google has their own handset coming out in the next couple months. Hopefully that shakes up the industry a bit.

I'm not looking for anything earth shattering, I just don't see anything that would have me switch from my already better-than-most-others iPhone. (The only thing I can think of that would cause me to want to switch would be to get on a different carrier).

I do hope to see some uses of the hardware that aren't possible on the iPhone due to Apple's draconian rules, so there is hope for that.

Right now the Droid is a "me too" phone, which is great we need that.

I don't have an answer to your question, I'm just asking (hoping, mostly) for a reason to toilet the iPhone.

iPhone had a 13 month lead (initial launch between iPhone and G1) and definitely had the early sales advantage from their large  following of computing/consumer device enthusiasts.  We're starting to see some nice diversity in Android devices, and they're now shipping on 3 of the top 4 US carriers.  Some fun stuff is still in the pipe.  2010 is going to be an entertaining year, I think.

The App store and such will pick up for Android, undoubtedly, when:

1. The iPhone market is so saturated and at such a low price-point, that people just stop making stuff for it.
2. This is probably the most important because it will never happen - the droid based phones need to become as homogeneous as PCs. That is to say, will stuff on one phone (say the current G1) work well on a snapdragon phone? Or the Droid? Or vice versa. There's a schism in the perceptions of the marketplace.
3. People stop making fucking apps with programmer art.

Seriously, the Android apps are - in general - so goddamn ugly and poorly that there's no need to guess as to why I haven't spent a dime in the Android app store and I have over 80 games on my iPod Touch. It also doesn't help that the best apps are free. When people see that, why would they want to make stuff for Android?

Yeah, Android phones are a bitch develop for I hear. The lack of standardized hardware makes dealing with three versions of iPhone comparatively pleasant.

Also, total lack of graphics acceleration and - unless I'm mistaken, which I probably am - there's actually more stuff that needs to run in the background than there is on the iPhone. Or at least, it seems as though the games and such aren't as quarantined off on Android as they are on the iPhone.

That said, as a phone, Android >>>> iPhone for me. As a gaming/app system? For now, keeping my iPod touch - unfortunately.

What does do better as a phone? I've never played with one. Standing in a Verizon store gives me hives.

Mine has a keyboard and my ear makes the screen less icky looking than an iPhone when I use it. Also, it feels like a phone instead of a designer piece of chrome.

Ow, that rhymed.

Anyway, I also <3 the google apps integration. Basically, everything that google is a big part of is great (except when HTC makes design choices to the phone itself). Everything a third party developer is a part of is pretty much canned ass.

Oh, and it needs better google docs integration, but I'm sure that's coming.

K, so I'm not missing much. I do live la vida Google, so better integration on that front would be nice. If someone can be bothered to make a piece of kit that's as nice as the iPhone I might jump ship. The droid is decidedly not a contender on that front. I may be a software issue but watching a couple people at work try to use their phones has been agonizing. Gestures seemed to work for shit and even basic taps weren't being recognized.

:facepalm:

That was where I had found it before.  Coupled with Sound & display settings -> Audible Selection, I no longer sound like a secretary from a noir film.

Total lack of graphics acceleration?

G1/Dream/myTouch/Hero/etc (the MSM72xx based devices) have OpenGL ES 1.0 and not a bad little GPU.

Droid has OpenGL ES 2.0 and also not a bad little GPU.

I'd say the single largest factor for Android App Market is device volume.  That, more than anything else, drives developers.  They code for what there's the most of.  iPhone had a 15 month lead in building volume and Android is not overtaking it overnight, though the graph is moving up and to the right, as it should...

I agree, which is why I didn't really complain about it.  Currently I don't have a lot of things installed anyway; next up is determining the best grocery-list app and grabbing that, but first I have Other Shit to do.

Paul Graham's counter-point:

http://www.paulgraham.com/apple.html

It's actually about how Apple is screwing things up but he talks about how developers like to develop things for their own personal use which means, if he's correct, Google has to convince developers to use Android on their personal phones before you'll see the kind of developer interest that the iPhone has on Android.

I'd certainly agree that volume isn't the *only* factor, just one of the largest.   Indie and hobbiest developers often do things for other reasons than "what is the best path to revenue", so, yeah, volume isn't always the biggest motivator for them.

For some developers, I think Android has a lot of appeal due to not being a tightly controlled walled garden.  Some folks do like the hardware (there are like 15 different devices shipping at the moment, iirc -- not all of 'em are ugly ^^). 

Certain classes of apps work much better on Android -- for example, listening to music with Pandora while surfing the web or using IM or whatever, which is something iPhone's no background apps policy prevents you from being able to do at the moment.

tl;dr it's complicated

I've got one of these to play around with, and there's a showstopper of a problem with the Exchange support - with SSL enabled, I can't open attachments. And of course, without SSL enabled, I can't connect to Exchange.  :oh_i_see:

It looks like we won't be supporting these for our users until that gets fixed.

I bugged the email app guys about this, and am told that there is a fix for this that will be in the first software update for Droid, but until then, there is a workaround -- which is unchecking "Trust all SSL Certificates" in the email app's accounts screen (long press on account, select account settings, select incoming settings.  If unchecking that is not an acceptable workaround (I have no clue what this all means, exactly -- I don't use exchange), you're stuck until the first update.

Yeah, unfortunately I can't use that workaround due to how our setup is done. Good to know a fix is coming, though.

I want to get the HTC Hero, but I'm getting pretty hooked on my work Blackberry.

You won't want a blackberry the moment you look at the rate structure. RIM is stuck in 19fucking99.

Hence the reason why it's his work phone.

Your post and his post don't correlate. He wants a personal phone. He's getting hooked on the Blackberry. He wanted an Android. That implies he's thinking about getting a blackberry as a personal phone.

And that's sort of the problem isn't it? Android is going to be flavored by the device and the carrier, rather than the one-size-fits-all iPhone app environment (for the most part, there is considerable processor difference between generations). How does this do anything but bring us back to the early 2000s when the business seemed to be more about porting than development based on users having to buy the same app again each time they went to a new device?

I honestly am struggling to see how the Android system really improves upon the average end user experience in any meaningful way. Yea, the TechCrunch crowd loves it for making the same kind of techie-appropriate noise as Linux does. But really, it's not like Apple's walled garden nor bipolar veting process prevents options to the user. And from a business/industry side, I can definitely understand the appeal of working with Google (because they cannot at prsent work with Apple at all, nor would want to cede all their control to them anyway).

But really, how does this help the consumer? I ask seriously.

I guess if you don't think a level playing field without walled garden distribution models has value for consumers, it doesn't help them.

I guess if you think "you can have any phone you want as long as it's iphone" is acceptable, there's not much point to competition in that space.

Most apps are crap -- on any platform.  But when you're stuck with central control, be it the carriers or apple or whoever, innovative stuff gets stifled. Google Voice is pretty cool -- be a pity if nobody could use it anywhere because all mobile devices followed a completely locked down app model.  It'd be unfortunate if any app that threatened the central authority's other business interests was disallowed.  It'd be unfortunate if even getting updates to existing apps published to fix bugs was a complex and tedious process that could end up having your entire app rejected (retroactively!) for violating some arbitrarily enforced random rule.

Wait, that's what publishing for the iphone is like today.

Luckily, the mobile space is enormous, so there's room for completely locked down appliances and wide open platforms and everything in between.  I don't think we're likely to see a single winner here the way we saw Microsoft dominate the desktop for so many years -- it's not the 1980s any more -- OEMs, carriers, consumers, and developers are all more aware of the pitfalls of allowing any one entity that much control.

I have a hard time seeing choice and openness being a bad thing.  If they are, they'll fail, so no worries.

I don't think you'd be asking that if the Android platform had the elegance of the iPhone platform combined with everything Android does for the market in terms of being open.

Really, it just needs a giant heavy coat of spit and shine and non-anemic hardware and a few better programmers & designers making stuff for it. The question is, when does that happen?

Which is exactly my point. Openness is great if a) it's in the right places; and, b) it's leveraged the right way. Purely as an end user, I haven't seen either yet.

I appreciate Quinton's argument. I don't know anyone else here who is more an expert on the mobile industry. And it's not like I support fascist end user experiences as a policy. I'm just skeptical that an open OS is going to solve that problem. Because who it's open for seems to be the same group that created the conditions ripe for Apple in the first place*.

What's being held back by Apple's bipolar app review process? Long tail emulators? Cool edgy tech the average person probably doesn't know exists? What's going on in Flash that developers haven't already learned to do with the iPhone SDK?

Again, I'm asking seriously because I'm not even a novice on this stuff. I'm just an end user whose messed with every PDA since the Casio/Sharp (pre-Newton) days. And I'm myopically US-focused, with only a tangential awareness that the way things work in the EU and Asia are very different. I feel like the bigger problems with the iPhone are due to the exclusivity with one carrier per market than anything else.

Maybe this openness is something that's going to affect more mature mobile markets? What will it actually permit developers to do that'll matter to the average end user in, say, EU and Asis?

*Apple. Ripe. I slay me.

Things you can't get on the iphone app store include:

Nothing with an interpreter or an embedded programming language.  All kinds of interesting things are done with embedded languages -- think adventure/video game construction sets, programmable scientific calculators, flash, etc.  All disallowed, because hey it might create a way to distribute programmable content not under the iron fist of the approval process.  Flash is crap technology but people *like* flash content, watch flash cartoons on the web, etc.  There's huge demand for it from users, but they're denied it not for any technical reason or lack of effort on Adobe's part.

Things that replicate (compete with) existing functionality.  This has been used to reject mail clients, pod cast players, browsers, etc.  Google Latitude is not there for this reason, reportedly (to similar to the built-in maps app).  Customization (something many end users feel strongly about) is stifled on iphone.

Various "offensive" things.  Wouldn't want a dictionary that might have swear words in it, or an ebook reader that can download freely available ebooks that might contain offensive content.  Like many things, this rule is applied seemingly randomly.

Google Voice.  Disallowed for murky reasons not yet clear.


I'm just puzzled by the people who are insistent that somehow Apple's approval process is a good thing.  There's a ton of terrible apps for iphone out there that got approved and there are a lot of great apps that are rejected.  This is not something that anyone would tolerate on their windows or mac pc -- why do they accept it on their phone?  Especially when their phone increasingly has the general purpose computing capabilities of a PC and similar cost to a PC -- yeah, US consumers buy phones subsidized, but while the carrier lets you use your phone on another network when your contract's up, apple will never let you run arbitrary third party apps on it...

Why is lack of choice a good thing for the end user?

Apple users don't buy an Apple phone so a third party can provide core functionality. Nor does the mass market.
Google fans don't buy a google phone so a third party can provide core functionality. Nor does the mass market.

At launch that may have been a good point but it has become decreasingly reasonable as it's largely without merit. I understand the nerd "coolness" of it, but beyond that it's largely silly.


I don't see anyone arguing lack of choice being a good thing for the end user. I do see people arguing that Android is lagging behind due to quality. With approval comes quality control. Half the stuff on the Android market - whatwith the bugs and general crapness of it would've never been on the app store. Unfortunately, more than half the stuff is absolute trash.

When you open the doors, you open the doors to EVERYONE.

Minimum quality standards are a good thing. Perhaps the best of things.

I think the droid is a big step in making this happen.  It seems to be the perfect sandbox phone for attracting the type of person you want developing apps.

edit: More to the point is the droid isn't the phone to convert the masses, it is the phone to convert the people who will develop the phone that will convert the masses.

You're saying *one* email program is good enough for everyone?  Really?  One of any program Apple chooses to ship is good enough for everyone, because why would you ship another maps app or browser or calculator or whatever?  That's sort of throwing away 30-ish years of personal computing.  Sort of throwing away the entire point of having a computer instead of a phone and a calculator and an addressbook and whatever.

Better ways of doing things are invented.  Different ways of doing things that appeal to different usage styles are created.  Stifling this is silly.  Why prevent people from running the apps they'd like to run and customizing their device the way they'd like to?



More than half the stuff on the app store is total crap.  *Most* software anywhere is total crap.  100000 apps?  There's no way even 10% of those are genuinely *good* apps.  Meanwhile, quite a few good apps are disallowed for arbitrary reasons.

One thing you *can* do is provide multiple vectors for app installation -- do all apps need front billing in the fancy app store?  Not really.   Put all the hoops you want in front of that, but, just like 30 years of computing, don't stop people from installing the programs they want to install.  I have no objection to Apple having whatever absurd standards they want for their App Store.  I object to them inflicting yet another closed, walled garden, platform on the world for no good reason. 

I think, in the long run, it's going to change, because just like crappy DRM for music, consumers hate it and the winds will shift.  If that were the *only* result of 5 years of working on Android (death to stupid walled garden distribution models or even just a strong foothold for alternatives), I'd consider that a total win.  There's a huge space between Steve's "you can have any phone as long as its iphone" and all the crappy featurephones and winmo devices out there, though.  Lucky for us!

"Minimum quality standards" are one thing.  "Arbitrarily enforced rules that stifle competition and innovation" are quite another thing. 

Uhm, yes. It's a phone. I think in the age of the iPhone and ensuing war we've forgotten it's still a fucking PHONE.


Don't be so melodramatic. Apple may be overeager with their blocking of programs (though, I'm on the side of the fence that says they aren't - what with, you know, it being a phone). Google on the other hand has no quality control and surfing for quality is an exercise in futility.

Sure, there's a happy middle ground, but no one is trying to reach it, so arguing on the extremes is a fallacy.

To be clear, just so there's no confusion:

- I believe closed / walled garden platforms are lousy for consumers due to lack of choice and stifling of innovation.
- I believe closed / walled garden platforms are lousy for developers, as there's no guarantee you can even ship your app -- you do all your work up front and hey, maybe the rules change, or maybe a similar app ships first and there's no need for your app.  Too bad!
- I believe manufacturers, carriers, etc have every right to ship closed, locked down devices.  I just think that in the long run they'll lose out to the alternatives, or evolve to become more open.
- I believe at the end of the day, most closed platforms are all about securing a revenue stream and not in any way about making things better for the end-user, no matter what story the platform creator wants to sell you.
- I think it is unfortunate that our current set of laws (see DMCA, etc) prevent the end user from doing whatever they like with the hardware they purchased.  While I would not support legislation to require Apple to open up the app store (their store, their device, their choice), I would happily support abolishment of legislation that allows them to take legal action against modification to the hardware or software by the enduser (hey, *I* bought it, it's *my* phone, piss off!)
- Industrial design remains the primary driver for phone sales for people walking in a store.  In the US at least, cost is also a huge factor (though US consumers have some weird ideas about the value of paying more up front vs lock-in for two years, etc).
- iphone rocked the industry by making the software matter and (to a lesser extend) making apps a consumer feature
- I firmly believe that just as there has been some heavy backlash against music DRM, we'll be seeing the same against restrictions on app deployment.

They actively reject applications that are competitive with their own offerings.  End of story.


Actually, we are trying to reach it.  Market improvements are in the works.  Too little, too late?  Dunno, people still are buying phones.  I'm just happy to be opening doors instead of closing them. 

Nah, it rocked the industry at release because it looks fantastic, looks like a status symbol, and makes everything on it look pretty.

This is where every other company - ESPECIALLY HTC - has absolutely fucking failed. Including the droid. That dpad needs to GTFO.

Everything else came afterwards. Ease of use was more important than actual quality of apps and software at release. NOW people keep it for the apps, but it is 100% not the reason they bought it (except maybe the Maps app).


So what? They're in the business of making money, and for them, business is good.


Needs more drastic, less dicking around. I feel like, for all the speed and effort that's been put into Android improving, priorities may be in the wrong spots. Also, having a totally split market (phones with different specs, other devices, etc), may have totally been the wrong way to go. This is, of course, total hindsight. But it's reading epic fail to me in the long run. Android may become the standard for phone OS' simply because companies can rejigger it for their own contract-agreed-to bloatware, but it will not be because of open source developers making awesome apps for it. An entire shift of direction would be necessary to make people think the phones were for that.

In short, Android is chasing after the WinMo and Blackberry markets (or what's left of them), rather than the iPhone. That battle may have already been totally lost. Of course, it was 9/10ths lost in the arena of industrial design.

I have not been arguing that apps sell phones.  See above where I have several times said just the opposite.  I just think that closed platforms are a net loss for the end user and I feel quite strongly about that.  That doesn't have anything to do with selling phones, which as you point out, primarily move based on industrial design (a point I've also made before).

Anyway, we're going in circles.  Be content in your certain knowledge that I'm misguided and wrong ^^

I don't think you're misguided or wrong at all. I think your heart is in the right place, but the harsh reality is that people are too stupid and/or vapid to appreciate and enjoy what's available to them in addition to having no want to increase the quality of said environment. In other words, Android is chasing a mythical animal of a market that doesn't yet exist or never will exist. I think that market can be created, but not with the design mentality the current crop of phone manufacturers are going in with.

Because the mass market consumer thinks they are getting the best. Would they even know the difference between "best" and "good enough"?

Schild has continued the same argument I was making, so I'll sum up with this:

It's not about "choice" as an academic pursuit. It's about meaningful choice that matters to that particular market. And I think the challenge here is that we're talking about two completely different markets.

I feel like you're saying that as much as they've forced a rethink on a decade of closed systems, they could do more. And I'm right there with you. Complacency is laziness, and it's not like the mass market is prone to pushing the envelope by themselves.

Meanwhile, the market I'm talking about is the one that's had to suffer through hasty decisions that lock them into multi-year commitments based on the promise of using devices designed too poorly or inconsistently to actually let them get much use from aside from the "talk, text, pix" commercials for Pocket Wireless. These conditions made the iPhone possible at all.

But make no mistake, the iPhone is not a one-size-fits-all device. This userbase is not looking for the kind of things you fault Apple for blocking in your list of examples. It is instead for the person that probably:

• Doesn't even know Google Voice exists and wouldn't care anyway because the one phone number they need is in their hand all the time anyway.
• Maybe thinks Latitude is a model of laptop
• Doesn't miss a lack of Flash support because it's not like that's caused a meaningful lack of content (the test device and SDK are really cheap). And really, what in the Flash world of crap hasn't already been moved over?
• Certainly doesn't need a programming language. They don't need one in their daily life at all.
  
• Probably gets aggravated when they hit the third page of apps
• Probably didn't notice when Apple dropped the use of DRM mostly.
• Probably couldn't care less about 2600 and C64 emulation because if they did, they'd play it on the far superior computer anyway. Or WiiWare.
  
  

The iPhone could be improved, there's no doubt there. And I'd like a serious contender to come along and make them work harder. But what needs improving for the mass market is very different from what the tech crowd would like when that mass market wouldn't even understand what they're missing even if you told them they were.

Uhm, no.  It's a computer that can run a phone application.  We've gotten so used to our most portable computing device being a crippleware piece of shit we've forgotten it is still a fucking COMPUTER.

--Dave

It's easy for people to forget that not long ago a 500MHz-1GHz CPU, 800x480+ display, 256-512MB ram, and 8-32GB of storage (looking at what's shipping in this space at the end of the year, beginning of next) was a helluva desktop machine.  These things are running full OSes (Linux, OSX, etc), not some cheesy RTOS with UI crammed into the available spaces around the baseband stack.  They're quite capable of running a number of simultaneous apps, doing relatively complex computation, have OpenGL ES 2.0 hardware acceleration, hw or dsp assisted encode/decode of 720p HD video, etc.

In the next year or so, the specs and capabilities of the high end smart phones and mid-end netbooks are going to blur, with the biggest difference being form factor.

This is a long way from an ARM7 with a couple MB of ram and a qcif display on a basic feature phone. 

To my mind, treating these things as locked down appliances is unfortunate.  Yeah, they should be good phones, but there's no reason they can't also be good general purpose computers.  Once this idea stars sinking in to the broader market, people are going to start wondering why these devices have to be crippled and restricted and then they're going to realize that the answer certainly isn't "technical limitations." 

These devices also use multicore SoCs with dedicated (and secured) processors for the radio subsystem, which makes the "omg what if they take down the carrier networks" excuse for limiting the platforms just so much bullshit -- the same exact radio modules are in wan modules for laptops with no magic restrictions on what software you can run.  Why is software distribution and installation limited?  Because they can get away with it.  Will it last?  I don't think so.

Forest for the trees Dave. It's not a computer until it can do the phone part perfectly. This includes texting and the phone book itself. We're not even there yet. Let's not even pretend those things are ready to be a useful computer. That's fart in the wind shit. It's very much NOT a computer. It just uses some of the same ideas in the internal architecture.

Quinton, I'm not going to quote your post, but I'll reiterate what I just said to Dave. "Good" phones isn't "good" enough. They need to be perfect phones before we start imagining them as something better.

We're simply not there yet.

I think you have frothed yourself over the edge.  My desktop can't do phone calls worth shit and I'm pretty sure it is a computer.  I don't think the ability to perfectly make a phone call is a sane criteria to classify something as a computer no matter what the form factor.

Um, some of the same ideas?  Identical more like.  They are little computers.  They're as powerful as mid-to-late-90s desktop PCs, which is not too shabby.  They happen to have a cellular network interface instead of ethernet or a modem.  They have a touchscreen instead of a keyboard (well some have keyboards too!).  

I'm confused as to why they have to be perfect phones before you can use them for anything else?  I certainly agree that there are a lot of smartphones out there where the phone functionality is pretty dismal, but that's not inherent in the hardware architecture (though poor industrial design can make it difficult to do a good phone experience).  

Telephony is only one of many apps.  I don't see why you wouldn't want anyone to develop any other apps until one specific app is perfect -- should nobody have written any other software for PCs until word processors were perfect?  *Are* word processors perfect?

I'd agree that if you're building a smartphone, you'd do well to deliver a really great core phone/contacts/messaging experience and possibly make that higher priority than other random bells and whistles, but there's no need to prevent third parties from exploring other applications to do that.

EDIT: I think my point over the last page or so is probably:
If your desktop computer were limited to running only a specific set of applications chosen by the manufacturer or the store that sold the computer, most people would view that as a horrible limitation, quite possibly a deal breaker.  Given that modern smartphones are quite powerful general purpose computers, I believe such limitations place on them are equally obnoxious.  I think as people become aware of just how powerful these devices are, they will become more annoyed by artificial limitations imposed by OEMs, carriers, etc.

Amusingly, the huge success of iphone and ipod touch and the apple app store will contribute to this realization that these devices are being crippled compared to PCs.  Hell, can you imagine the outrage if Apple didn't let you install any software on your macbook except for software bought through the itunes store?  People aren't dumb.  They're gonna figure it out.

Uhhhh. What?

I didn't say something had to be a computer to make phone calls. I'm not sure what you're talking about. I said I wanted my phone to be a perfect phone (in GUI, form factor, tech handling, etc) for all those phone-necessary things before being treated as a device that can do all that other shit I can do more efficiently on a computer, or god forbid, a microPC. We've become so obsessed with making phones do all sorts of shit that I have to tap and swipe and pull shit around just to get to "mother" in my phone book. This strikes me as counter-productive in terms of product design. Now, granted, we're obsessed with touchscreens as a culture right now, but we're still chomping at the bit to make a phone more than a phone and thus worrying about it being a computer.

I can only assume you read that sentence and hit quote before reading the rest.

Edit:

If we're building a smart phone, why does not a single phone on the market have a GOOD email app?
If we're building a smart phone, why does every single one except for the one aimed at 14 year olds have a shitty SMS frontend?
If we're building a smart phone, why does every single one have finicky address books?
If we're building a smart phone, why does every single one have totally abyssal voice command shit?

This is pretty simple shit that every single phone should have let alone a smart phone. So I ask, if the manufacturers can't get it right, why should we expect a third party to?

If manufacturers can't get it right, I think there's a *lot* of opportunity for third parties to do so.  I'd sure as hell prefer that third parties be able to at least try rather than wait for hardware manufacturers to figure it out on their own.

How many of the key applications that you use on your PC or Mac were written by Microsoft or Apple?

What would PCs be like if only the OS vendors could approve applications for distribution?

Do you think this would be better than PCs as we know them today?  If so, what color is the sky in your world?

...

That said, I am in total agreement about how terrible many core apps are for these devices.  Hell, the android gmail app is a stinking pile imnsho.  I wish we came anywhere near the usability of the 2002 hiptop email app.  Luckily, unlike hiptop, anyone could write a replacement mail app -- will anyone?  will it be better?  who knows, but it sure beats the alternative which is "tough, we already gave you an email app, be happy with it"

Nobody wants a third party to write the app. They all want Google to. Just like people with an iPhone would prefer Apple make their email app better or any other app for that matter.

I think it's great third parties can do so.

But that still doesn't excuse the current quality of applications on phones from first parties. In fact, I'd go as far to say that's a total cop out.


This is a total straw man. But more to the point, not counting games - the VAST majority of them. I know your point, but I feel like I should ask what it is just to save us both time and energy.

Right now, my task bar consists of:
Firefox, IE64, Thunderbird, Outlook, Filezilla, FRAPS, Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Photoshop, and Ventrilo.

I'm in Excel and Photoshop more than the rest, including the browsers. Adobe is, at this point, first party.

So, I've got to ask, if Google is having so much trouble making a good mail app and the iPhone is totally closed architecture, why has Google not contacted the Mozilla Foundation and tried to get them to write the Android mail app with their help? Let's be honest, there's really only two mail applications on PCs worth a damn and one of them is terribad. If Outlook wasn't such a stinking pile of corporate aimed trash, I'm not sure Mozilla ever would've bothered with Thunderbird. Now, if you're saying Google put together a shitty mail app so someone else would come along and make a better one, I'm not even sure how to respond.

No I read the entire thing, maybe one of us is tired but I think if you were to reread it the dialog you have going on in your head may not match what is on the page.  It is quite obvious (at least to me) the droid is more than a phone, pretty sure you can still use it for a whole shitload of useful stuff even if you drop your cell phone plan entirely (voice/data the whole shebang) and just utilize the wifi/mp3 player aspects.

At the very least until flexible/roll up displays (maybe retinal displays not sure I am ready to risk that type of burn in) hit the phone world I don't think it is possible to get what you seem to be wanting.  With the current hardware you just can't have a decent phone form factor that can display a web page reasonably well.  At least with blue tooth headsets and speaker phone you aren't limited to using it like a traditional phone.  From the 2nd hand info I have gleaned the droid sounds like a great phone as far as voice quality goes and that certainly is the foundation the phone you desire needs.

edit: I'm a pretty die hard outlook user (mainly due to the 12+ gig of email I have stored up over the last decade) but I am pretty sure there are a fuckton of people that prefer gmail to just about any desktop mail app available.  It makes complete sense to me why Google might want to focus on gmail integration first and exchange/outlook integration 2nd.

1. This is just silly.
2. I have not yet asked for a web browser in this particular line of conversation. In fact, web browsing as far as I'm concerned, is just fine on the current iteration of phones. I certainly don't WANT flash on my phones and the phone you've mentioned, the Droid, is particularly good at it.
3. I'm not sure what your point is here.
4. It's still hamstrung by the terribad email app, less than pleasing SMS app (understatement), a totally flat keyboard (wtf?), and the Android market attracting tinker mouthbreathers shoveling out crap with no quality control in sight.

It seems like you're arguing outside of the scope of what I was getting at. I'm upset at CORE functionality on phones. "Core" implies shit that ships on the phone. Shit that comes from the CREATOR of the OS occupying the phone (or, god forbid, the handset maker (ugh ugh ugh)). On a smart phone, TODAY, this includes: SMS, Email, Browser (Yes, a browser, and like I said, they happen to be just fine right now), the phone book, and apparently maps (they're great atm), and the call handling itself.

The browser and Maps, ironically, are not core things I'd associate with a phone, but they became as much due to culture, which is fine. Everything besides those, however, have suffered so that they could be better. Perhaps it's a "back to the chalkboard" situation. Perhaps someone has working prototypes of something awesome. Or maybe Google will get their precious third party that fixes all the problems with Android. I really don't see that happening though.

Edit: "Core" in the post iPhone era also includes an app store. But there's no question the only company tackling that even in the realm of "right" is Apple, and they're doing a shitty job too. But really, it's the most infantile of all these functions so I'll give it a total pass simply because "well, shit, I guess they work."

I still think we're talking past each other.

I am not saying that third party apps are an acceptable substitute for a poor built-in app experience.  I think that a great product should have an great out of the box software experience, should not depend on users downloading software to compensate for poor core functionality, and I agree that many (most?) of the smartphones out there today fail in one or more key areas.

I am saying that even if the built-in app experience is great, it's not going to be good for everyone, it's not going to do what everyone wants, and there will be a lot of markets (large and small) where third party software can fill the gaps.  That, in my mind, is the awesome thing about personal computers -- software can make them do just about anything.  It can fill very specific niches.  It can do things the original designers of the machine or the OS never thought of.

I am also saying that since modern smartphones *are* general purpose computing devices, it is silly to arbitrarily restrict the ability to develop software for and install software on them.  I think we got started with all this in response to "why does open app development and distribution matter to users" or the like.  My answer is "because it lets them do things beyond the imagining of the creators of the product."

Please note, again, that none of the above is me saying "third party software is a substitute for a good out of the box product experience."  I'm not saying that.  I never have said that.  OF COURSE people want the software on their phone to JUST WORK and to be really good.  Duh!  Even with built-in app stores, many users download few or no applications and the basic functionality is what they care about.

So, honestly, I have no idea what we're arguing about, because I think we are mostly in agreement here.

I can tell you, quite seriously, that Google does not believe that third party apps are an acceptable answer for "why does built in app X not work well."  I'm pretty sure both Apple and Microsoft share that opinion in regard to iphone and winmobile.

Maybe there's some belief that somehow supporting third party apps actively makes the built in apps worse, but that's sort of misguided -- the resources to support third party apps in a modern system have quite high overlap with the resources to support in-house apps.  These are, after all, general purpose operating systems even if somewhat specialized for a mobile space.

Win7 has decided to treat my net connection very poorly. I had a long response. It's gone now.

In short, it was "the mass market expects Google and Apple to supply them with enough awesome that they don't need an imagination."

There was a point there but I doubt this post will even make it through before the net gives out again.

My point is that the the droid is to date the best possible phone to get you where you want to be and it will do so exactly because it appeals to the "tinker mouthbreathers shoveling out crap with no quality control in sight".  Most of these people are going to write apps for themselves that solve problems they think need solving without thought to how they are going to cash in on it, as opposed to the iphone developer (majority of which probably have never held a professional dev job) who's primary goal seems to be how do I design the next fart sound board app to cash in on.  

By designing a phone that personally appeals to developers and tinkerers they have opened the floodgates on a huge brainstorming/rapid development endeavor that will hopefully have a huge impact on android 3.0.  I am sure if a developer creates an app that fits with Google's vision of where android is headed and vastly improves on existing core functionality Google will be quick to snatch it up and incorporate it.  Isn't this exactly what the android app development contests Google has sponsored been about?

The ADC is also a great way to find awesome engineering talent.  We've hired a number of ADC1 developers who've gone on to do fantastic work for the Android platform.

No, it really isn't. It's the BEST Android phone and comes with all the problems of the out-of-box Android experience. And those tinkerers aren't seeing enough money in that marketplace for a big player to come in and actually make something meaningful. We'd need the Mozilla folks to come along and do that or someone (who?) better.


Unfortunately, it hasn't happened yet and ADC2 has yet to prove otherwise. ADC1 was mostly obnoxious crap.

Now this, I believe. Also, when ADC1 went on, I downloaded nearly everything and I'm fairly confident none of them were GUI designers. :awesome_for_real:

Edit: But it was obviously filled with fantastic engineers who just happened to be making obnoxious crap.

I 100% agree that to date this has been what is going on but I don't want Apple to tell me what is cool and I never have.  Apple's greatest strength has always been it's biggest weakness, they design with a tight control over form, function and style specifically so that people (including devs) don't have the freedom to fuck them up.  Unfortunately this also limits people from realizing the full potential of the machine that Apple has presented them with (OS X might be the only exception to this rule).

I'll take the imperfect anything goes sandbox over a rigid development framework and day of the week.

In theory, I do too. In practice, ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, not so much. At least, not yet.

Your inner Dieter is too strong to let you cast aside Apple's eurotrash design nazi framework:
(http://devotia.com/img/Snl89187.jpg)
Dieter would definitely use an iPhone.

edit: and on the flip side I'd probably say that Moss would prefer the droid:
(http://devotia.com/img/moss.jpg)
If I had to pick one of these fictional characters to give me advice on which cellphone to get I'd rather go with a techie over a fashion icon.

Pretty sure that the WoW interface is better now because they let people fuck around with it and then stole the better and more user friendly of these ideas. Why wouldn't you think opening up basic apps to third party devs wouldn't have a similar bonus for the company apps on an iphone?

If apple said "ok, you can make email apps if you like" does that mean that most of it's user are going to go out and fuck themselves over by using a poorly made third party one? No, it just means that those who want to might be able to find a third party app that does what they want better. And if they do it so much better, maybe kickback and force Apple ot make their defaul app better as well.

Honestly, people outside of the hardcore geek circles don't care about openness.  You try talking to 90% of the iphone users about rejected apps and they will shrug and move on.  They want something that works well and is intuitive and easy to use. 

It's why I know of quite a few companies who switched from BB to Iphones, even though BB really is the better business phone.  The hardcore geeks at the companies hated it because the Iphones didn't do what they wanted, but everyone else jizzed in their pants for having an Iphone, and still do every time an update occurs. 

Hell give me a real list of apps that people here would use that have been rejected by Apple (besides Google Voice).  By that I mean apps you would use on a regular basis that have actually been denied, not some fantasy uber email app that no one has even attempted. 

I love my Palm Pre, which is a completely open phone (sideloading apps is supported, a lot of the OS is written in javascript and easily modifiable, etc) but the only reason I love it is for the UI presentation, gestures and multi-tasking.  I really couldn't care less about it being open.

How much of the iPhone is locked down because Apple said so versus AT&T requirements. For a brief time you could buy (maybe you still can buy?) an iPhone with no carrier... for 50% more than the cost of an ok laptop. That's not a choice most will make. And that categorizes the iPhone in the dead-and-buried "PDA" industry they're very careful to keep the Touch out of as well.

So if these locked-down portions are imposed by AT&T, we're back to asking Apple to solve problems of the industry, not become less fascist.

None of this matters to the other happy geekery going on here of course :-)

You are seriously underestimating the size of the business mobile market I think. Apple does not do that so well that Android won't be able to take a chunk out of them, especially given the carrier flexibility.

I can see the carrier flexibility being tempting for corporations, but the development tools in place for custom app developers are fantastic. Private apps don't have the rigorous approval process that the main app store has, and Apple provides a nice assortment of tools for managing your iPhone deployment. I'm sure there are ways Apple needs to improve their corporate offerings, but what they have doesn't suck either.

Well 3/4 of the major US carriers now ship non-locked-down Android devices.  I think it's only a matter of time until we're 4/4.   

Personally, I think Steve likes being able to use AT&T as an excuse for his arbitrary policies, but what do I know.

Prediction: even if AT&T ships much more open Android devices, iPhone will remain a walled garden.

On your first point you're right, openness in the abstract is something just for geeks.  Everyone else cares about openness because it makes for a better experience.  The easiest example would be Twitter clients.  Competing clients on the iPhone (and desktop) have made both themselves and the Twitter service itself better.  That simply wouldn't have occurred if Apple had launched the iPhone with a Twitter client and the "no replication" rule was in effect.

As to "something that works well and is intuitive and easy to use" being universal... I don't think you actually believe that.

What?  Why wouldn't I believe that?  People want to pick up a piece of software or hardware and be able to use it instantly, without having to resort to figuring out how to tweak it or look at a manual.  This has been how Apple has been so successful with every one of their products. 

I'm not sure why it's such a foreign concept.  Most people will drop a game within 10 minutes if it's not intuitive and enjoyable instantly. 

Furthermore, you are wrong that most people care about openness because it makes for better experience.  Look at the operating system world.  Almost all non-geeks don't give a shit that Microsoft has been anti-competitive.  They like it even when good alternatives are around because it works instantly, it's intuitive, and is what they are used to.  That's why IE has so many users even though chrome and Firefox are faster and more efficient web browsing clients.  You try telling them that there are better alternatives and they don't care.  Thinking that "everyone else cares about openness because it makes for a better experience" is just being naive about human nature.  Most people don't even put those two things together.

And again I ask: what is this giving to the average end user that they weren't already suffering under getting in the pre-iPhone mobile feature phone market? How many of these Android devices offer a complete end to end user experience that is better than the iTunes/iPhone/media complete system for the mass market consumer?

Of course everyone is going to offer an open-standard Android. Gives them a new reason to offer yet more confusing models and shiftiing standards. But is that fulfilling a worldwind demand or just pushing a supply?

Besides, all this will become moot when Google launches their own device anyway  :awesome_for_real:

The true average end user, I suspect, is still not actually using a smartphone.

IE8 is only as good as it is because of Firefox.  Firefox is refocusing on speed because of Chrome.

Even if you don't use the competing products, the competition from those other products makes the "default" get better or continue to lose market share.  Either way, it's a win all around.

As for "something that works well and is intuitive and easy to use", what I meant was: what works well and is easy to use for me isn't going to be same for you in all cases.

And Microsoft won out over Apple back in the day because it was an "open" OS that anyone could develop for without MS's permission, while Apple had pretty much the same problems as the iPhone.  You had to run everything through them, and if they picked a winner for a certain type of app, everyone else might as well go home.  At which point, that winner had no reason to get any better, so it stagnated while PC applications caught up and then passed it.  The only place Apple held on was with artists, and when Adobe decided to port to PC it required huge truckloads of cash from MS to keep Apple afloat (as anti-trust insurance) long enough for the iPod and OSX to save them.

The iPhone sucks balls for what it does, it's just that *nothing* else did it at all (Blackberries were even more locked down).  Android will eat their lunch, even if it takes a couple more years.

--Dave

I don't think Apple's going anywhere.  They've good at this -- they know how to deliver that last 10% that really makes a product slick.  They have a very loyal userbase that keeps coming back to buy their new shiny year after year.  They don't need to own the entire market to make a ton of money (witness where they are with laptops -- margins are razor thin for most of the laptop market, but Apple makes nice profits on their stuff).

Ok, this has come up in vague terms before, but I'm really curious about specifics. What exactly does the iPhone suck balls at that matters to the average consumer? I'm not looking to play Apple fanboi and cut down your list or anything. I just want to know what the tech set thinks the iPhone doesn't do well and how that compares to what a consumer looks for. Can't use Google Voice nor emulators either because those already causing problems, and because they don't matter to the "average".

And since it's a new page, I'll remind:

• I want competition because monopolies cause laziness and complacency; and,
• I really want to see how "open" actually helps.

As to your Apple/Windows thing, MS wasn't successful because they were open. They were successful because they were ubiquitous through various, err, "creative" business deals with PC makers. Adobe, Macromedia and Aldus all uses to be separate competing companies. And all of them were Mac-only for a time, unfortunately back when with myopically focused on being taken seriously as a business machine rather than  as a tool for any use (which PC makers got right).

So you don't think openness encourages competition?

Let's say that I want to make a new app for finding you a good restaurant near where you are.  I'm going to do a lot more than just run a Google search and reformat it for you, I'm going to tap into Zagat and Michelin, and customer reviews of people who have liked the restaurants will be eHarmonized into the results.  You can hit this app in the middle of a strange city and it will take you to the best culinary experience that it can possibly offer you, it's fucking magical.  Problems:

1) The list of "Most popular restaurant picker" apps is full of things that have hundreds of thousands of downloads, and I'll never get into it.

2) The approval process for new applications takes months.  Until you're through that, I can't even beta outside of devkit phones.

3) It may be rejected for some completely bullshit reason, up to and including the Apple employee reviewing it thinking there's already too many restaurant picker apps.

4) Once I'm through that, if I need to change my app, it's weeks and another opportunity for my app to be pulled from the AppStore to update the application.

5) Steve Jobs controls my oxygen supply.  If he decides the new Apple cut is 90%, what am I going to do?  Sell it through someone else?  Port it to some other hardware?

Approximately 99.9% of the most popular apps on the iPhone are so simple they could be whipped up over a weekend.  That's because most of them *were*, jumped out in front on sales, and have been locked there ever since because there's no way for anyone to find or buy an app except through the app store, and they are not being improved because it's too damned much of a PITA vs. shoveling out another brain-dead simple app, and there's no incentive because even if someone else makes a better app, once the top 10 list is full nobody will ever know about it.

As a continuous-presence all-in-one communications and computing device, iPhone's only merit is that it is not *quite* as hard to make and sell programs for as the Blackberry, it's not *quite* as over-priced, it's not *quite* as locked down.  But it still sucks balls.

--Dave

And when/if the Android market place gets some serious steam behind it, your shit will get on there as well as everyone else's and their cousins and other cousins and 90% of the apps will crash _all_the_time_ because a gibbering 8 year old coded it because hobbyist types run the gamut and you'll be buried among 9,000 other apps named RESTAURANTS4U2PICKFRUM.

They both have their pros and cons. But some quality control is needed.

Err no.

99.9% of the most popular apps on the iPhone are whipped up over a weekend because there are so many apps being created that you only have the few days of "New Apps" to get visibility.  Once you get off that list the chance people will find your app drops immensely.  Thus the only way to achieve a decent revenue is to create very small, simple and cheap apps to keep something of yours on the recently added list.  There have been quite a few articles on this from successful Iphone developers about how almost all of your sales come from when the app is on the "Recently Added list".

So once your restaurant finder app gets knocked off the recently added list, your app is now one of MANY (hell my Palm Pre, which only has 456-ish or so apps has at least 10) it is extremely hard to market it.  And if you are selling it for money you have to somehow convince people that it is better than all the apps without them actually using the application (since there are no demos).  The fact is, most people are going to go to the highest rated one and stop there and thus, if your app doesn't get rated highest, you won't get many sales.  It is hard to get visibility and the same thing will occur on the Android if it takes off, except (as schild said) people will see the buggy ones and just give up.

Isn't Google going to allow apps to be loaded from sources other than the android market place?

Yes, but short of porn I don't see that really taking off. The infrastructure is too much of a pain in the ass.

Well if they don't have to go through google to sell/install I can see quite a few desktop software co's releasing their own apps direct to the customer.  Trust me, not having to count on an approval process and having your customers wade through the multitude of crap in a centralized app store to find your product will take off eventually.

Isn't that how Blackberry works?

That feature has been in since 1.0.

You can just click on SomeApp.apk on a website, etc.  First time you do that, if you haven't chosen "allow untrusted sources" you'll be prompted to enable that if you want to install apps from outside the market.

Hell, there are a couple third party app stores available.

That said, obviously the bulk of users will find apps through the built in market app, and schild's many gripes about its UI limitations do hold.  The market team is working to improve things on many fronts (user experience, billing options, better search, web interface, etc, etc).

Apple spends tens to hundreds of millions of dollars on ad campaigns highlighting third party apps as the SOLE SELLING POINT of their phone and you idiots are arguing about whether third party development matters.  This has convinced me that the F13 Phone would be a colossal fucking failure.

In other Android news, Nook delayed until after Xmas (unless you have a pre-order?  Maybe)

The phone was already a success prior to this. After the app store became a key feature (which we discussed), they started highlighting more than a tiny subsection of apps.

Obviously I'm parachuting in to the end (mercifully) of this subthread, so at risk of rehashing arguments others have made just to state my position: the reason there were any good apps at all on the iPhone to highlight (like, say, Urban Spoon) was that there were a bunch of really shitty ones to pick through, that open development increases that pile of shit, which inevitably increases the pile of gems on the top, and that while slobbering Joe Average user doesn't care about 'open development' per se or even know what it is, he cares a lot about the cool shit that comes out of it, and Apple and Google know it.  Where they currently fail is that slobbering Joe should never really have to see the pile of shit to get the gems.  Google 'features' apps at the top of the market and Apple probably does something similar.  But what they really ought to do is come up with a few editorially controlled 'packs' of apps.  Like, say, an urban nightlight pack that takes a few restaurant review apps, barfinding apps, movie times, etc.  A shopping pack with barcode scanners, price comparators, etc.  A sports pack, A gaming pack, blah blah.  The average user doesn't want to dive into the store, they just want to say 'I like sports' and get a bunch of well-designed apps.  But that whole sorting and sifting infrastructure has to sit on top of the pile of shit.

So again I asked about why it sucks for the average consumer and instead get the developer issues. This does not matter to consumers. And I know the development, submission, and rollout problems full well.

But let's focus on this a sec anyway. I find it laughable that a platform with a nigh infinite amount of titles can be considered restricted. What, they open it up so they can get more infinite? It's already buried by shovelware numbering in the tens of thousands. 95% of the apps get purchased maybe five times at all. It's the same deck placement problem of old, with the one difference being the deck capping at 100 instead of just 6 to 10. But that's still 6, 10 or 100 out of a hojillion.

Neither the AppStore nor iTunes is conducive to the amount of content they have now. That is a consumer issue that is a valid problem to discuss. And they're dragging their feet on the wholesale redesign that's needed in both. Competition will help there, which is why I'm a fan. But make no mistake: none of these devices are any good at handling even hundreds of offerings, much less hundreds of thousands. They all just suck in different ways, requiring different types of adaptability on the part of the user.

I haven't heard yet a reason why the iPhone sucks other than abstract dislike for having any amount of walled garden at all. It's not preventing average people from getting what they want.

If you want a feature the iPhone is keeping people from having, a keyboard with real buttons tops my list.  :grin:

Having core functions like mail and application acquisition immune from competitive pressure is a consumer issue.

Is the average user better of using IE8 (or Firefox or Chrome) instead of IE6?  Is the average user better off using Windows Live Mail (or Thunderbird) instead of Outlook Express?

These are only abstract issues if you refuse to look past your own nose.

The only thing that makes me want to kick Steve Jobs in the shins is the lack of Flash support, and thankfully Adobe is working around it, even if the workaround is far from ideal. Still, they need to play nice with Adobe and get Flash on the damn thing.

I find the iPhone message program fucking annoying. Not being able to move and rename my files about. Fucking annoying. Only Bluetooth for headsets? Fucking annoying...

I could go on but I cbf. There are lots of things that are fucking annoying on the iPhone from a pure consumer standpoint. Only idiots are arguing against this.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39720/f13/htc2010_salsa.png)

Do want.

HTC's 2010 roadmap leaked.

Edit: The processor is lackluster, but frankly, I'll take a blackberry like QWERTY setup over just about anything.

Has anyone tried goggles (http://www.google.com/mobile/goggles/#landmark)?
I tried to get it on my phone but it is not to be found in the android marketplace. I'm just curious if it just isnt available here in Canada or what the deal is?

Processor should be fine really, especially with so few pixels to move around.  People get too obsessive about that sort of thing.  Deal killer for me is QVGA -- I don't need WVGA, but at least something toward HVGA would be nice.  Keyboard looks niiice.

I'm really liking the dolphin browser, though it makes me wonder why pinch zoom isn't default on a droid.

Did people have problems with the semicircle unlock?

Updated Droid is noticeably more responsive.  Kudos.

So Has anyone used Google Googles?
I still cant get it in the market place.

I miss it.  I am hoping there is an option to bring it back.  For some reason I do not like the new unlock method.

I'm not a big fan of Goggles due to not allowing to use pictures in my gallery and poor search results so far. Examples of poor results would be a picture of a mountain dew can sitting alone on my desk brought back results of some WOW user interface/quest log screenies the first 2 times, 3rd time it worked. Though it is a newer program and it could be good over time, but for now it's not very good.

I'd really like tineye to make an app for the Android market.

where di you get Goggles? I cant see it in the marketplace...

In the market place, choose Apps->Tools->Top Free and right now it is the top one. Also, you can just search the marketplace for goggles and it will show up

hmm... I guess it must be a case of being in Canada. I don't see it in there, or for that matter when i go to http://www.android.com/market/

Oh well I know its not that useful, just wants to try it out.

Here's hoping the new Canadian cell company carries the Hero.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/184555/googles_nexus_one_test_phone_details_emerge.html

On a Droid, is anyone else having issues with MS Exchange and outgoing mail? A friend of mine is having this problem:

Any ideas?

Quinton needs to get in here, STAT!

Does it immediately process if you manually flush the queues on the exchange server?  I got nothin' actually, I just remember having this issue with other outbound mail and can't remember how I solved it.  You might be able to just send it through another smtp server (like verizons) with a reply to of your exchange account email address...

I don't know about the manual flushing, I'll ask. Also, I will suggest another smtp. Hopefully this, or a future fix, work.
Thanks

Think Quinton is going to be all  :nda: until it's  official

If I comment on rumors, unannounced products or stuff like that, they shoot me.  Sorry!

(http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/217511917_vHEgd-L-2.jpg)

I want an android phone that uses google voice as it's transport, with google-arranged cell tower sharing SO BAD.

I think it's just a dream though.. just a dream.

http://www.androidtapp.com/google-phone-nexus-one/

Woot, posting from the droid!  Sooo much to learn.

I'll save you some time and point out that the Mr. T Soundboard is crap.

Just don't install kid's paint, I think I just lost my 1 day old droid to my 3 yer old.

Update 2.1 will make some of you into believers.

Pure Blade Runner win, for serious.  Not gonna talk about details (I cannot) but holy shit.  I got to touch it in person and it made me giddy. 

I'm trying to think of what's in 2.1 over 2.0 that would be that mind-blowing (given that 2.1 is pretty incremental over the initial Eclair release).  Are you thinking of the changes to the home screen here or something else?

Cheddar makes my exaggerations look like understatements.

Well, when you spend every day in the trenches, looking at the bugs and such, you can often forget just how much stuff has changed from release to release.  Things that you've been using for months are exciting and new to people who've never seen 'em before.

Flash support? Is there a built in way to uninstall apps and kill/view processes or do I need to install apps to handle those features?

For app kill / uninstall, from the home screen:

menu / settings / applications / manage

Pick an app from the list, and there's an uninstall button on the app info screen that comes up.  There's also a "Force stop" button (you might have to scroll down to see it).

In general, you shouldn't have to kill apps -- the system will kill them as necessary when it needs more memory.  However, some poorly written apps may keep threads running in the background (rather than just sitting idle) which can slow the system down and/or decrease battery life.

settings / About phone / Battery use

tries to give you an idea what your big power hogs are

No flash yet.

Cool, thanks.  I have stayed away from smartphones until now, so this thing is blowing me away.  It has completely mesmerized me, I simply can't put it down.

If they were to shoot you, would it be with the video function on the Nexus One?

I think it's more they make you kneel on the edge of the loading dock in the back of building 41 and shoot you in the back of the head, so you fall in the dumpster.  I'm not in a hurry to find out though.

So, I can quote you on the record as saying that Google doesn't do composting?

Oh god that nexus one look perty.

My G1 is feeling ancient and beat up.  I need new shiny.  It's almost a year old.  THATS OLD.

Krap!

The X10 has better specs and design, but the Nexus has AMOLED and Android 2.1. This sucks. I'm torn.

I'd advise against making decisions on "better specs" when one's only data is rumors of/about unannounced products...

Charlie Stross (my favorite futurist) thinks my analysis of Android's chances is too conservative, Google isn't just going to eat Apple's lunch, they're going to help the internet eat the phone system (http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/12/21st_century_phone.html).  He may well be right, ultimately all the telecoms are selling is specialized crippleware data services, and when the internet really is everywhere, the inefficiencies trying to keep those data services crippled introduce are going to become competitive disadvantages in a big way (witness how AT&T's efforts to keep you from using their TCP/IP services for VOIP have rendered their cellular broadband the poorest performing for *all* purposes).

--Dave

The Android OS? Which flavor? Which carrier? Or do you mean the Google Phone?

I still don't know what I'm comparing an iPhone to here. Just the hardware? Just the apps? Just the carrier?

That the internet will eventually be ubiquitous and portable and we'll all be jacked into it 24/7 no matter where we are is without question. I just don't see it coming on the backs of carriers continuing to "personalize" (read: gimp) the experience to ensure they keep moving 2 year contract devices. Especially now that Verizon has doubled their early termination (probably due to some legislation on the horizon or because they don't want everyone jumping to the iPhone device when that comes to their service in some form).

Totally offhand, but:

All futurists are assholes and deserve no recognition.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/exclusive-nexus-one-full-specs-detailed-invite-only-retail-sal/

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.  :awesome_for_real:

How exactly does that supposed per-invitation sale work? How do I sign up? As Android developer? If so, do I have to submit something first? Then again, I always wanted to start coding on Android.

See I knew it was a good thing to go from Verizon to Tmobile.  Now I get a crack at the Nexus.  Sahweet. 

Any thought on when they will go full retail?  Feb? March?

I sure hope that it's going to get regular major updates, if it's ostensibly maintained by Google. And I hope that won't any release secrecy a la Motorola Droid.

God damn. New mobile carrier with crazy data/voice plans and now the Nexus One slated for early next year. Too much to handle!

http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/29/t-mobile-makes-internal-mention-of-nexus-one-sort-of-for-earl/

Oh boy... maybe next Tuesday?

Edit: Announcement to come on Tuesday:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/29/google-announces-android-press-conference-for-january-5th/

So, gripes from my friend. Legitimate, or "You're doing it wrong"?

Why is it so hard (impossible?) to get a route from google maps onto my iPhone?
So if I load a google maps route on my iPhone from a bookmark, it'll show the route on the map, but won't let me see the turn by turn textual directions?
And if I try to open it in the maps app, I can't modify the route, and sometimes it says it can't even route something that maps.google.com could? What?

Would an android solve these issues?

I have some of those issues using Google Maps on my Blackberry. If you can do it, it's not readily apparent.

Ditto on my Palm Pre.  It annoys me to no end that if I find an address on google maps I can't copy/paste it into my turn by turn app, I have to manually switch between apps to copy it.  Frustrating.

http://gizmodo.com/5436673/leaked-nexus-one-documents-530-unlocked-180-with-t+mobile

530 US bucks unlocked, 180 with a silly T-Mobile contract. If they're using regular currency conversion, it would cost only 370-380 eurocoins. Supposedly, there's legalese in the sign up site regarding international sales.

I'm wondering what this legal bit about selling/shipping outside of the US is. How would they even know?

The terms of sale leaked, and it mentions a whole lot of stuff about import taxes and so on, that supposedly are also conveniently listed for your consideration on www.google.com/phone (it's written like this in the PDF, the site ain't up yet), and price fluctuations due to currency exchange rates apply.

http://podcasts.aolcdn.com/engadget/files/Passion_Terms_of_Sale.pdf

It's a bitmap PDF, so I can't copypasta.

So it pretty much just stats that the normal fees associated with importing goods applies to the phone. I can deal with that.

if that gizmodo site is correct, you would be retarded to not buy the phone unlocked unless you need unlimited minutes.  It claims that if you buy the phone subsidized, you have to do the $79.99 plan w/ a 2 year contract.  However, if 500 daytime minutes is enough (which it is for me), they have an unlocked phone plan (BYOP) for $59, so over the course of those 2 years you would save $480.

*edit*
As a side note 2 questions:
1) Does anyone know how good T-Mobile 3g service in Orlando is?
2) What makes the google phone different than any other android phone?

I think the idea behind the Nexus is that it'll be a Google supported reference platform. Support as in getting actual updates to Android, that don't require praying and sacrificing lambs to your favorite handset manufacturer to make them churn out platform updates for your smartphone that's practically considered legacy as soon you bought it.

Got a Snapdragon and currently the most RAM of any smartphone out there.

I wish there was a data only option with calls/texts being sent through Google Voice.  At least $60/mo. sounds like it's cheaper than other unlimited data phone plans.  And I'll sell my GPS unit to take a little bit of the sting out of $500+ for a phone.

If the leaked specs are correct the phone won't work on the AT&T 3G network (it will work on EDGE) so don't even bother with the unlocked version if your plan was to use your AT&T SIM in it.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/02/exclusive-google-nexus-one-hands-on-video-and-first-impressio/

Blah blah blah.  Notable for the first decent pictures of the device in the wild.

With sprint changing their fees (allowing me to leave without ETF) I'm real tempted to purchase the Nexus One and drop my Pre.  I'm just concerned about battery life, but I"m sure (just like my pre) Seidio will come to the rescue with a larger battery.

Nexus One is a GSM phone, won't work on Sprint's CDMA network afaik.

Yeah I know.  Sprint's pissed me off enough I'm willing to switch to T-Mobile.

You won't miss Sprint if you have good coverage for T-Mobile wherever you are.

So on the droid I have 2 email programs pointing to the same email account, I don't see a way to remove either email app (one is called email and the other is gmail).  I get 2 email alerts for every email and they store the messages in different locations (if I delete in the gmail app the email is still in the email app).  Once again neither one of these apps show up under "manage applications".

Anyone else have this issue and/or a solution?

Freescale's reference 7" touchscreen tablet running Android looks pretty slick. (Largish picture (http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/IROL/19/196520/1_4image4.jpg))

Oh damn. I want.

If this account is a gmail account (I'm assuming it is, since the gmail app can only talk to gmail, but the email app which speaks pop/imap can *also* talk to gmail), I'd advise removing the account from the email app:

1. launch email
2. press MENU button
3. choose Accounts
4. long press on your account (touch and hold for ~2 seconds)
5. select "Remove Account" from the popup menu
6. victory

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/04/nexus-one-review/

Here's a review.  It looks like an improvement over the G1 but it's not much a glowing review as I expected.  I'm still looking forward to trying one out once it hits the streets.

I'd take a review that basically ignores any of the new functionality of the platform/device in favor of whining about multitouch and it not being an iphone with a grain of salt.

No device is perfect, but the reviewer in this case is maybe just a tiny little bit biased. ^^

From over here, it's just sounding like you're REALLY defensive about multitouch :)

Is that a limitation of the hardware or the software? I thought it was just the software.

The thing that troubles me more is them being down on the audio player. I haven't played with the droid extensively but I hope there is one coming down that brings it into line with the iphone functionality - for me, key features are playlists, variable scrubbing, remembering where in the file you left off, and pausing/resuming when calls come in. Basically, dealing with audiobooks with hour+ long files, which is what I use it for mostly.

A couple liveblogs:  Ars Technica (http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/01/google-android-event-liveblog.ars?altcast_code=e08885f39a)    Edit:  the Android Central liveblog is terrible.  How hard is it to just type what you see/hear.  

I have $530 staring at me, wondering whether it will be spent on a phone today.

I've decided against it unfortunately, as everything I read says that T-Mobile 3g coverage here is spotty at best (and I don't see the point in having a smartphone without good 3g) :(.

Now I need to decide if I want to switch to VZ and get the droid, or wait till Nov (when my contract with sprint is up) and see what uber Android devices are out then.

The deciding factor will be whether or not the on screen keyboard sucks compared to my G1.

http://www.google.com/phone (http://www.google.com/phone) is up.  I couldn't stop clicking blue buttons.  Bought one.  Eep.

well, looks good.  Predictable they would do this.  PC will be next.

I wonder if they will copy and index our phone calls?  Serious question.

Site says verizon coming spring 2010.

My girlfriend is on my tmobile plan and I can't modify it on that site.  I guess I could call or go to the store and see what the deal is.


Edit:
I just called the local Tmobile store and they said they won't be carrying them in stores.  What the fuck is this?  I can't demo the phone first?

Edit2:
I'm getting this bullshit:

I'm got a shared/family plan right now.  I'm not spending $529.00 for an upgrade.  Fuck you Google.

Nope everything but coverage is done by Google.

I think I'm going to drop Tmobile when I runs out and go back to Verizon this year.

So no Nexus one for me as the only GSM provider in Canada is a no go.

The integrated audio player could definitely use some TLC.  An EQ would be at the top of my list with better playlist functionality coming in a close 2nd.

edit:
Works great thanks!  Either the manual for my droid was left behind at the store or it didn't come with one.  All I have is the 6 page quick start guide.

There are PDFs laying around, like on this guy's site: http://www.wayneschulz.com/2009/11/verizon-droid-manual-pdf/

Catching up on a couple of things:

1. Copying Google Maps results to turn by turn apps:  Wut?  Latest Android Google Maps has turn by turn built in.  You find a place and hit 'Navigate' and it reads directions to you like a pro.  Go look at a chart of Garmin and Tom Tom's stock price.

2. Navigating 5 menus to kill an app: No.  Install an app called TasKiller.  Add the widget to the home screen.  Poke an icon to kill an app.  And regardless of how Google and Quinton hope and want it to work, how it actually works is I have to kill apps pretty regularly to avoid losing a full battery charge in less than a day and/or getting out of what seems like a loop eating up the cpu.

3. Nexus One = soft keyboard only = dealbreaker.  if I wanted to type on a touchscreen I would have bought an iphone.

In the toilet (http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/28/the-game-has-changed/).  They were in trouble, anyway, my first GPS nav was a Garmin because they and Magellan were *it*, my last two were "GPS Navigation For Dummies" ($99) and Pharos ($49), which both have all of the features of the $400 models from the majors (only thing they lack is traffic updates).  Garmin and company were disabling basic features of their low-end sets in software, For Dummies/Pharos are that same hardware without the crippleware.

A $50 in-car GPS can compete with Android, the $600 premium kits have no way to be superior as navigation aids to an Android phone/palmtop/netbook, and are in the same price range without having all the other features.

--Dave

Too expensive :(

They should've made some sort of special allowance for G1 early adopters... just because.

It has voice-to-text in all text fields (as will everything 2.1 I think).  I'm hoping it actually works.

WIND carries the 3G band that the Nexus One uses. Also, Bell and Telus are GSM now.

Yeah.

Ah I thought Bell/Telus hadn't switched to GSM yet. I guess that was the iPhone hoopla?

Yeah, despite them not offering better plans. Go Canadian wireless!

Yeah that's the truth. Bell's network for the iPhone, thought it was still a CDMA but its all HSPA from some reading on it. I cannot find out if the bands are compatible tho. I really would look at switching from Rogers as a friends phone still has signal in various buildings where my Rogers GSM one looses signal all together. One other huge thing is if you attempt to even go to say Newfoundland and outside the avalon peninsula (ie 50% of the population) you have zero service with Rogers. I digress, Canadian wireless pricing is still insane.

Right, I need to install TaskKiller because that's the only way I know how to stop the music player.

If you are in a civilized area, Wind's spectrum covers the same crap bands as T-Mobile so it is a go for HSDPA speeds with them.  It will roam on Bell-Telus and Rogers-Fido at GPRS speeds though if you are tied to a thirty year contract already.

Yes, Canadian wireless prices are still out of whack with the rest of the world.  But hey, so is everything else.

Sweet.  Going to get the Motorola Droid tomorrow.  I just got a Google Voice invite as well (and got a GV number).  If I just give people my GV number, is it easy to just use GV for SMS and not have to get the Verizon messaging plans?

Can't buy it in Belgium yet.  :oh_i_see:

Guess it's better that way. Found out about the Marvell Armada chip, which blows the pants off the Snapdragon, at least on paper. And tripped over the Motorola Shadow rumors. Hope some more info will be released about both things before I can get my hands on the N1.

I only tried to use my GV number for texting one day and there was about a half hour delay between messages. That was texts from AT&T to my Sprint phone so I'm not sure where the issue was coming from but that was about a month ago.

I need some help from an Android pro.  I set up my Nexus One to dial in/out using my Google Voice number and Gizmo5 account via the Google Voice app (factory installed) and Sipdroid app (downloaded) over WiFi.  Then I get lost.

If I dial out using the Phone/Contacts app, Sipdroid successfully sends it out but Gizmo5 charges me for the call.  I cannot figure out how to dial out on the phone with either the Phone/Contacts app, the Google Voice app, or by logging into google.com/voice on the phone's browser, to make Google Voice "call back" my phone so Sipdroid picks it up after which Google Voice would connect me to the number I dialed out.  

Also, is the Voice app only good for SMS and checking voicemails?  I cannot see how to dial out through the Voice app.  Similarly I cannot see how to dial out by going through the google.com/voice website on my phone whereas that option exists when I go to the website on my computer.

from the google voice app on your phone: menu, settings. Under general,  making calls. change your selection.

I'm wondering why you need sipdroid if you have google voice, unless  you are using the phone  to  work with a preexsting setup?

In my experience from sending text to my wife's Nextel from Verizon phones, it is probably a Sprint problem.

Is that using Google Voice anywhere in that sequence? When using my Sprint number to text her at AT&T everything is dandy but to send and receive texts with her through my Google Voice to her is when there was the delay. If it wasn't for that I would use my Google number for everything but now I just use it for voicemail which is still awesome. The voicemail transcribing is next to worthless most of the time but having it play the "this number is no longer in service" recording to numbers that I block is  :heart:

Yep I have it set up in the Voice app just like that.  And in Voice (through my PC) I have it set up to dial my Gizmo5 number, which is why I need Sipdroid on my phone.  Sipdroid picks up Gizmo5.  This lets me place calls over wifi without using phone minutes.  At least in theory.  It's not working for me.

If you just use the Voice app without Sipdroid, then when you place a call Voice will use your cell phone minutes.  I think.  This is what I want to avoid with Gizmo5/Sipdroid.  But like I said I can't make Voice call Sipdroid on an outgoing call from my phone.  

I may not be explaining this clearly.

The Fuck-You-iPhone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7SzB58qHI0)  :awesome_for_real:

 If you place the call with google voice, it goes over the data connection of your phone, or wifi, whatever is up.  It doesn't use minutes. This is why it's not in the apple store

If you lived and worked in a place with nothing but wifi, or could get a data only plan on your phone, you'd never notice the difference, until you hit your cap on data :D

you bought it without data,does you phone plan allow for  free numbers or calling circled?

Or out of 3G coverage :P

I decided against using GV as my primary number, mostly because a lot of reviews on the net talk about delays on phone calls and text messages.  Not worth it just to save $15 or so a month.  Meanwhile, my Droid should be here tomorrow, yay.

Wow then I must be doing it wrong.  So when you place your call through the Google Voice app, does Google Voice first call your phone and you pick it up, and then Google Voice dials out to your contact?  Or does it call your contact directly after you select one?

On my PC, when I log into Google Voice and place a call Google Voice first calls me back on my PC (and Gizmo5 picks it up) and then Google Voice dials out to my contact.  I thought it was the same thing on Android phones.

Voice works just fine out here in 2G land. I've yet to see those delays either.

When you place a call using Google Voice through the app, it firsts dials a GV access number and then that dials out to the person you are trying to reach. It's pretty seamless but if you look at the screen you can see the access number it dials first.

Google Voice DOES use your plan minutes since it dials the access number first and it uses anytime minutes not mobile to mobile regardless of the type of phone you are trying to reach. Now the nice thing is if you can get unlimited calling to a favorite number, add the access number and since everything is funneled through it you get unlimited minutes. The number changes every now and then though.

I've got you clearly now, ffc. I have my  my voice number as  a fave, so I don't see minutes spent.

Ok got it working.  I tried everything to be able to dial out directly (GV app, GV Dialer, etc.) but nothing does the job so now I place and receive calls with my Google Voice number over WiFi through the mobile browser without using any mobile minutes.  If I dial directly through the Phone/Contacts apps then I can still place calls but my number shows up differently and Gizmo5 charges $0.01/min.  If anyone needs help setting it up just let me know.

This may all be for naught though since VoIP on my Nexus One is terrible.  Complete audio and mic static and cutting in/out.  On my PC I have never had problems with call quality.  I've tried the phone with two different WiFi spots and will try a third later today.  I haven't read about anyone else having a similar problem.

This is awesome, I left WebOS at the right time.  I'm loving how much smoother everything is with the Droid.

*edit* And the Swype keyboard is amazing!

Link:  http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2009/12/30/how-to-get-swype-on-android/

For whoever it was that was pissing and moaning about how third-party open platforms aren't all that: The last page or two is why you're wrong.  A lot of this stuff would not be allowed on iPhone because somebody with pull at Apple would make sure it couldn't happen, even if that took bricking a bunch of phones.

--Dave

The brother of a coworker of mine selected what is possibly the best engraving text possible:

Aaaand if I ever actually get a new phone, I'm getting that engraving.   :drill: :drill: for sure.

Quick question that I can't seem to find a definite answer to.

On my Droid, all the battery apps/widgets I have found only display the battery life in 10% increments.  Is there any way to see the battery life in more fine grained increments?

As a happy iphone user, I'll be getting one of these Nexuses for that spot alone if I ever need an unlocked alternative.

Fuck me indeed!  :awesome_for_real:

For you N1 owners: How's music playback quality on headphones? I keep reading some stuff about it being a little weak on bass and a little tinny depending on music style.

This is a limitation of the battery driver for the Droid, which only reports to userspace in 10% increments (why? no clue, somebody at moto might know...). 

Sounds fine to me, using the sony in-ear headphones I like.  I'm not even close to audiophile level picky about this sort of thing though, so you probably will want some more data points.

I seem to be having a call-goes-straight-to-voicemail problem with my Droid.  The call also does not log in my, uh, call log.  Very occasionally but one time is too many.  Android or Verizon?

I assume you're not taking calls through Google Voice?

I am not.  I'd very possibly like to set it up but that is a task for another day.

My suspicion is it'd be a Verizon issue, but I'm much more familiar with UMTS than CDMA network interactions.  Not getting any missed call notification seems strange.

Heard about this somewhere, can't remember where. Did a quick google for 'straight to voicemail android' and came up with many a hit, with quite a few originating in the UK. So I think it may be an android issue. A quick fix seems to be to use Edge rather than 3G. Aswome solution, I know.

But we're talking about Verizon's CDMA network here, which is a totally different critter than EDGE/UMTS networks... not to say it *couldn't* be an OS or hardware issue, of course, just that I'm not convinced it is in this case.

So what's this about Google totally screwing up the launch of these things, and the Nexus 1 having shitty g3 reception?

I imagine it did since the droid has a contact option called "send calls directly to voicemail".  

I had this problem all the time with my AT&T phone, whenever I was in a deadspot (like for example the 8 hours I was at work) calls would go straight to voice mail as my phone was unreachable.  I would eventually get a new voice mail alert but never get a missed call alert.

My Nexus One beef is its bad VoIP call quality which is especially disconcerting in light of other phones like the Droid using the same apps and connection over WiFi or 3G having good VoIP call quality.

http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google+Mobile/thread?tid=4f3e4a5e86767e31&hl=en

http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10/01/13/1915242/Nexus-One-Owners-Report-Spotty-3G-Signals-On-T-Mobile

Sounds about right.  Due to geography, Verizon has a shit signal in my house.  I'll blame VZW since I toggled the straight-to-vm box and it still does it from time to time.

Interestingly, one of my contacts was going to VM all day until I toggled that box and things were OK after that.  If not for that occurrence, I'd not suspect Android at all.

I get the same thing.  Its completely random, but annoying.

I still love my Droid. 

I've been having this issue lately with my HTC S720 on a CDMA network. Often times I'll even be holding the phone and next thing I know a VM notification comes through and my friends tell me it just went straight through to my VM.

Christ, I wish there was some info on when Google's going to expand that silly selling scheme of theirs to include bumfuck countries like Belgium, where I live.

I'm switching back to Verizon once they get the Nexus One.  Can anyone compare the G1 to the Nexus One in regards to the keyboard, or lack of one?

I just switched over to the Nexus One. The soft keyboard is lacking compared to hardware ones, but every single thing about the phone is better. From speed to the external speaker to the menus to the performance of Google Maps. It's just an all around fantastic phone... except for the lack of butans. It makes the Droid look relatively primitive as well. Oh, and it has the best camera I've experienced on a phone yet. Dropbox needs to make an Android app so I can sync seamlessly.

Those were my assumptions.  Now Verizon needs to move chop chop like.  I wonder how much this will cost me to leave my contract months early and canceling my family plan and opening a new one.

The Nexus One is a GSM phone. Verizon ain't getting that particular phone EVER. Someday Google may ask HTC to build a CDMA equivalent.

Heh.

Google swears they're doing a CDMA variant for Spring 2010.  Supposedly though, it's only going to be a direct order item (through Google) as opposed to being able to buy it in a VZ store.

That's a little odd considering CDMA phones are tied to a specific provider (they don't use a swappable cards like GSM phones do, well okay some CDMA phones can now but not in the US AFAIK) so they would be in effect selling a Verizon phone that Verizon itself can't sell but it sort of matches how they effectively tied the Nexus One to T-Mobile here in the US by leaving out support for AT&Ts 3G band (it will work on AT&T EDGE network).

Yeah but Google confirmed the Verizon version in Spring 2010 so it's not just a rumor.  It's even listed on the Nexus One purchase page.

I've been using a CDMA spin of N1 on Verizon for a week or two now.  Somebody's got to get the software wrapped up so the online store guys can un-gray-out the "BUY NOW FOR VERIZON" button on google.com/phone.

Goddamn, Verizon's data network is fast.

Sorry about the lack of butans, schild.

This is why I'm going back to Verizon.  TMobile is ok, but not good in NJ.

Ironically, the opposite is true in Austin. T-Mobiles network smokes Verizon's here. On that note, the Nexus One loaded up CNET this morning 4x faster than a droid I had next to it on my desk. I didn't think it was reasonable until every webpage I tried (mostly newspapers and mediarich sites) all loaded that much faster than the Droid.

Thin is popular.  Making the device 2mm thicker to support an antenna that could also handle AT&T's weird band selection (probably the FCC's fault, but who knows...) would have impacted ID.  Of course one could probably build a version with the right power amps and antenna for AT&T easier than one could build a CDMA version...

Jersey has spotty 3G coverage for TMobile for whatever reason.  Verizon is almost always getting a 3G signal.

Yeah coverage is really what matters.  TMO is crap at my house but fine at the office.  AT&T is the other way around.  VZW seems to be slightly faster than either in both locations.

Too bad building devices that talk on *all* networks is a pain (impacts cost, ID, software, etc...)

Just to triple super confirm it, my Verizon NexusOne eval phone is coming in April, we already asked for it.