Sup guys?

[WindupAtheist]

Sweet. I'll give it a shot. But even if they can't fix my 70, I'm cool.

[Ratman_tf]

If you want to farm purples right now, go kill the Headless Horseman about 20 times in maybe an hour.  Most of your time will be switching around characters since downing him takes all of 3-4 minutes.

We spent the first day farming HH and I got 3 rings, the helm and the sword. I'd really like his mount, but I'm not one to grind past the novelty factor.

[Ratman_tf]

Servers are still iffy. Ours went down just before our SSC raid was supposed to start, and stayed down for a solid hour while we chatted in Vent and played alt invasion on another server. 

[Dren]

Flying broom ftw

I love that there's no cast time for it.

I've been spending the last two days abusing this fact.  It makes picking herbs FAST.

[Chimpy]

So the My Sack is Gigantique acheivement is bugged....instead of equipping the bag all you have to do is loot one atm.

[Ironwood]

I'm confused :  What do you mean as I don't get why it matters ?

[Merusk]

I'm confused :  What do you mean as I don't get why it matters ?

It's not BOP, so you can get a group of folks to go in on the 1200 gold then pass it around themselves and their alts for the achievement.  Not that it matters beyond E-peen.

[Ironwood]

Ahhh, I get it.

Silly.

[WindupAtheist]

GMs undeleted my 70 from like 9 months ago. My ret has infinite mana now. Pwn.

[Calantus]

The mana issue is hilarious. I was healing an instance on my paladin specced ret and wearing my ret gear (read: no int or spell stats) so I could only cast 2-3 HLs before oom... except I just judge wisdom and boom I have mana again. It was goddamn ridiculous.

[WindupAtheist]

Stuff like this is why even a level-hating UO partisan like me can get something out of WoW. Woops I deleted my character, in fact I deleted him about nine months ago, so can you bring him back please? Sure, bam. Delay caused by the server asplosion aside, I am muchly pleased with the WoW customer service.

[Fordel]

Stuff like this is why even a level-hating UO partisan like me can get something out of WoW. Woops I deleted my character, in fact I deleted him about nine months ago, so can you bring him back please? Sure, bam. Delay caused by the server asplosion aside, I am muchly pleased with the WoW customer service.

As far as I know, characters are never actually deleted for real, just stored away on some backup server/database thing.

[apocrypha]

Stuff like this is why even a level-hating UO partisan like me can get something out of WoW. Woops I deleted my character, in fact I deleted him about nine months ago, so can you bring him back please? Sure, bam. Delay caused by the server asplosion aside, I am muchly pleased with the WoW customer service.

I think this definitely contributes to the uphill struggle every other MMO launched since has experienced. WoW's CS is so good that without enormous outlay on CS at launch anyone else's looks awful. Of course some MMO's see this in advance and don't even bother to try (Hi Funcom!).

[WindupAtheist]

I think half the reason Blizzard seems so good is because everyone else is so bad. Horrible crippling bugs aren't left around indefinitely, there are no developers going out onto public boards to ramble about shining their Porsches with player tears, the GM staff is basically competent and helpful. All shit that we SHOULD be able to take for granted. In a lot of ways WoW is nothing special, but it manages to actually function basically the way one of these games is supposed to on paper.

Anyway, I finished the Crusader's Scaled Battlegear set, the blue rep-bought ret pally PVP set. I had dinged 70 and gotten a couple pieces of it when I quit before, and I just had to hammer out a little Sha'tar and Keepers of Time rep to finish it now. They're not doing an honor reset for the expansion now are they? Because I was thinking I'd just go do BGs and pile up points to spend at some point in the future. It's too late for pursuing serious BC gear to have much point, I think.

[Jayce]

Stuff like this is why even a level-hating UO partisan like me can get something out of WoW. Woops I deleted my character, in fact I deleted him about nine months ago, so can you bring him back please? Sure, bam. Delay caused by the server asplosion aside, I am muchly pleased with the WoW customer service.

And yet there are still games out there who delete your characters when your account expires.  I think you're right that Blizzard shines just by being the average of what we should be able to expect.

[rattran]

Jebus, leveling speed is insane now. I quit last in June 07, and just went from 66-70 finishing off some quests I had.

You'd think other games might learn from Blizzard, but I think they're all too busy planning what to do with their money hats once they dethrone them with half-finished games.

[Ingmar]

I think half the reason Blizzard seems so good is because everyone else is so bad. Horrible crippling bugs aren't left around indefinitely, there are no developers going out onto public boards to ramble about shining their Porsches with player tears, the GM staff is basically competent and helpful. All shit that we SHOULD be able to take for granted. In a lot of ways WoW is nothing special, but it manages to actually function basically the way one of these games is supposed to on paper.

Anyway, I finished the Crusader's Scaled Battlegear set, the blue rep-bought ret pally PVP set. I had dinged 70 and gotten a couple pieces of it when I quit before, and I just had to hammer out a little Sha'tar and Keepers of Time rep to finish it now. They're not doing an honor reset for the expansion now are they? Because I was thinking I'd just go do BGs and pile up points to spend at some point in the future. It's too late for pursuing serious BC gear to have much point, I think.

I believe the current reset plans are that arena points will reset, but you can carry honor over.

[WindupAtheist]

Sweet. Battlegrounds can be fun, but Arenas just sound blah anyway. I like running around in the zerg and critting some priest from behind who didn't see me coming in the furball.

[Azaroth]

Yes. Like broken aweome.

BTW, Blizzard will probably restore your deleted 70 as well. They did that for a smacktard I know who deleted everything from his account.

Paladins are awesome during EVERY beta.

Blizzard will crush your spirits soon and restore Warlocks to their rightful place at the top of the heap.

Count on it.

Massive Ret nerfs confirmed for next patch.

I also doubt it'll be the last round of Ret nerfs.



Lesson: If you want to play a Pally, play during beta and shortly before an xpac release.

Then quit.

[Fabricated]

And people thought it wasn't going to happen. No fucking way they weren't going to nerf the hell out of ret. It was ridiculously broken.

Of course, instead of just tweaking the damage down bit by bit and finding a comfortable balance, they took a sledgehammer to it.

[Azaroth]

Anyone who thought it wasn't going to happen is a moron, or at least they haven't been playing WoW for very long. I've seen basically the exact same thing happen to Pallies three times now.

Either way, I had a lot of fun playing my Ret Pally over the last few days. PvE viable? I hardly knew her.

[WindupAtheist]

Much as I love Judgement of the Wise, it has been completely and utterly impossible for me to run down my mana and it was due a nerf. Since I've been back I have not gone below 50% mana ever. I can go up to one of those training dummies in Ironforge and dump on it with everything I have literally forever and never go below 70% mana.

[Fabricated]

Anyone who thought it wasn't going to happen is a moron, or at least they haven't been playing WoW for very long. I've seen basically the exact same thing happen to Pallies three times now.

Either way, I had a lot of fun playing my Ret Pally over the last few days. PvE viable? I hardly knew her.

I think ret will be fine. It was just broken man, sorry.

[Azaroth]

Maybe. We'll see.

Like I said, experience tells me that the nerfs don't stop here.

[WindupAtheist]

I just know it should probably be at least theoretically possible for me to go OOM. Even if I drain it all healing or something, one Judgement and I have enough mana to go back on the offensive and it'll be full again shortly thereafter.

[Fordel]

Really, it shouldn't. None of the other melee DPS classes ever go "OOM", Ret should be no different. Ret is already cool down limited, it isn't like there is anything to spam with that mana.

My only real concern is all the Ret nerfs will bleed over onto Prot and Holy Paladins. Holy Paladins apparently solo even slower now. This is the spec that made Holy Priests feel like killing speed-demons to begin with.

Prot will probably weather the storm alright, but who knows!

[WindupAtheist]

So like a warrior can totally ignore any rage-building abilites and instead go completely buck wild 100% crazy with his rage-consuming abilities for a literally unlimited amount of time without ever even emptying half his bar? Because if so, then yeah, we're getting the shaft.

[Sjofn]

So like a warrior can totally ignore any rage-building abilites and instead go completely buck wild 100% crazy with his rage-consuming abilities for a literally unlimited amount of time without ever even emptying half his bar? Because if so, then yeah, we're getting the shaft.

Warriors don't really have rage building abilities (just blood ... rage? Jesus, I've been playing a protection warrior for months and I still forget the names of shit. I can see the icon IN MY MIND, though, I swear.), it's from getting hit and from your white damage, I believe. I do know my protection warrior does not run out of rage ever now, even if I go all out while tanking. It's a bit crazy.

I don't know how non-protection warriors do rage-wise, though, which would be the real comparison.

[Azaroth]

Playing a Fury warrior is a delicate dance between wasting rage because it's "building" when your bar is already full and wasting rage because you have to "dump" it with abilities BEFORE your bar is full.

[Ragnoros]

Titans Grip gives the mad rage. You don't run out with 2 epic two-handers smashing away at things. However you only have 2 damaging abilities to actually spend rage on. Bloodthirst and WW being on 6 and 10 second cool downs and all means you can only spend it so fast.

Arms with endless rage keeps you mostly raged up and MSing, but if your popping a lot of piercing howls, intercepts and pummels trying to keep someone locked down you may not have the rage for WW. Depends on whether the RNG is giving you mad crits or whiffing away.

As said, assuming something is hitting you, in prot you're in endless rage mode.

[Fordel]

So like a warrior can totally ignore any rage-building abilites and instead go completely buck wild 100% crazy with his rage-consuming abilities for a literally unlimited amount of time without ever even emptying half his bar? Because if so, then yeah, we're getting the shaft.

Yes, yes you are. The entire purpose of JotWise was to give Ret paladins a "blue rage bar", because every other melee DPS class in game is running on infinity already.

[Gobbeldygook]

Titans Grip gives the mad rage. You don't run out with 2 epic two-handers smashing away at things. However you only have 2 damaging abilities to actually spend rage on. Bloodthirst and WW being on 6 and 10 second cool downs and all means you can only spend it so fast.
...
Arms with endless rage keeps you mostly raged up and MSing, but if your popping a lot of piercing howls, intercepts and pummels trying to keep someone locked down you may not have the rage for WW.

If you never, ever use heroic strike, cleave or slam, you are a terrible DPS warrior and I hope I never accidentally group with you.  For bosses, you are also forgetting maintaining demo shout and a sunder stack if there isn't a prot warrior lurking about.  For arms, you will probably also be maintaining Rend on bosses and using sweeping strike on trash.  There is also bladestorm to consider for arms, but since white attacks don't stop, you will probably leave it with a full rage bar no matter what.

[Shrike]

Other melee isn't running on infinite power. I haven't played fury in almost two years, so I can't say how they are these days. Back in T2 content, I either had too much or was sucking wind. Just depended. I don't play rogues and hate everything about them, so I can't comment on them. Enhance shaman, though, that I know quite well. We're hurting for mana right now. We NEED replenishment to keep the blue in the blue bar in any kind of long fight. SR barely keeps us going. Barely.

Now, this is at 70. Things probably will be different at 80 with the new itemization. Some reports from test have us at 15k mana at 80. I have about 8k now when raid buffed and I can burn that blue bar in a couple of minutes with just my standard attack priority (and pull aggro--even on protection pallies). Mostly, it's because we've lost some of our clearcasting-like abilities and have new spells to fire off in melee, but nevertheless, we smoke the blue bar and quickly.

My protection pally can burn the blue pretty well, too. It's far and away better than it was before 3.0, but, again, if I have to really stand on the attack sequence, I go out of mana--unless I'm taking huge damange and corresponding heals, which is as it should be.

Bottom line is Blizz is balancing all this stuff for level 80, not level 70 with 80 talents. So what's going on right now isn't really the way things are going to be.

[Fordel]

Prot Paladins are not Melee DPS and share the same 'Blue Rage Bar' design ideal, but on a defensive instead of offensive focus.

Warriors are pretty much swimming in rage these days.

Rogues are the same as they were before, energy hasn't changed all that much, if at all. (Ferals fall into either rage or energy)

The new patch changes may have put Shamans in a OOM eventually area, I haven't seen them in action really since the patch. Pre-patch, The only time I saw a enhance shaman go OOM was if he was spamming heals or rezzing 

[Shrike]

Yeah, before 3.0 rarely went OOM as enhance. It took a really long tank&spank fight with a tank that could really pile up the threat. Healing runs me out in seconds. PvP, too, but that's another matter.

The main reasons we're going OOM right now is lightning bolt spam in combat via MW, reduction of shamanistic focus to 45% mana reduction, a new melee attack to spam, and the fact that a lot of us were in shitty rogue leather (the armor wasn't shitty, just the rogue part...). Also, we can't get to the elemental clearcasting talent at level 70. So we run OOM, possibly before SR can refresh.

On the Kara run last night, I generally found myself hovering around half mana. Normally, the blue bar would hardly budge, except maybe on Prince. On the other hand, stuff was dying so quickly it didn't affect performance. If these fights had gone substantially longer, then I'd have had to use blue pots. I have a fear and loathing of blue pots.