Level 32 to 40

[insouciant]

Include me with the calls for a drastic change of xp awards.  But I have never seen a game where such calls have been heeded, no matter how obvious (CoH anyone?).

On a tangential issue, I wonder if WoW has changed the experience of developers regarding retention.  Four years ago, even if a game had problems you stuck with it since:  1. you had few, if any, real alternatives, 2.  You were inured to the grind by prior experience (EQ or similar), or 3. Most people did not hop from game to game, returning to old toons.

In these modern times, where everyone and their aunt has one or more max-level WoW toons, that are there waiting for you even if you no longer subscribe, I am of the opinion that the customer who you could have had for six, or at least three months in the past, is now there only for 30 or 60 days if they are even the least bit dissatisfied.

[Nebu]

What people may be missing is that Mythic games rely on a cohesive group for success.  If you play with the same 6 people every night the game is a vastly different experience than playing with random people (even if from within the same guild).  Tactics and rapid communication can turn a frustrating evening into an exhilirating one.

[Morfiend]

Once again, need I remind you, I took one weekend out of my life, gave it to Warhammer and went from 23 - 32 doing nothing but one scenario.

To be fair, you basically exploited a design flaw that allows DPS classes to get massive amounts of EXP.

I spent a huge chunk of my weekend winning Tor Anroc, and AE grinding PQs, and I managed to go from 21 to 24.5, basing your leveling time on what you did is unrealistic for most people.

[rk47]

yeah axe tagging ftw according to schild for my chosen would work in TA seperate party Roflles

[Arthur_Parker]

My major concern with WAR has shifted, it used to be player population in general but now it's specifically with Tor Anroc, everyone is doing it.  The obvious reason for it being so popular is that the players believe that it gives the best exp/realm points per minute played (they might even be right). 

I don't believe Mythic intended for one scenario at each tier to the be the most popular by a very wide margin, it snowballs until it affects the other scenarios, eventually it harms PQ's & open RVR.

So you'd think to yourself no problem, they will boost the exp for questing, open RVR & other scenarios.  But will they?  On past experience from other games the more likely outcome is an incoming nerf to Tor Anroc.

Now, I'm left wondering about the gold situation.  I like the fact that gold is plentiful, but if they are so clueless about Tor Anroc, does that mean the current economic system is a total accident?  If so, can we also expect them to start introducing pointless gold sinks?

[Nebu]

Seems that there should be easy ways to normalize xp/rp gains among scenarios just by data mining outcomes from the first 2 weeks of live play.  This would go a long way toward ensuring populations in the among the scenarios.   

[tazelbain]

Scenarios are great.
They could be even better.

Scaling in t1 and t2 needs to been looked at.
Exp/RP rewards need to be normalized across a tier.
Soloists need to be neutered.
Winning needs to be more rewarding in t3
Most of the maps another pass for fun factor and balance.  Some need better explanation as to what is going on.
There needs to be an epic quest to do all the scenerios in a tier.
There needs to be tome unlocks for playing a bunch of scenarios.
Dogs of War as pets to help balance the numbers.

[kildorn]

Dogs of War as pets to help balance the numbers.

Man, have you SEEN pet AI? 

[tazelbain]

Ya, bad pet AI rob WL of part of their dps because having a pet is factored into their class balance.  A DoW pet would be additional help when someone disconnects or diclines the queue.  It doesn't need to work 100% to help out.

[Fordel]

Mythic making their game unnecessarily grindy for no good reason?

 



Sjofn said it best the other day, 'Mythic is some sort of idiot savant'. They manage to do things no one else can seemingly get right, but then cock it all up with their own stupidity. IE: Design a compelling RvR end game, but ensure it's as annoying as possible to actually reach said end game!

It's DaoC all over again. 

[Goreschach]

Sjofn said it best the other day, 'Mythic is some sort of idiot savant'.

No, they're pretty much just an idiot. I'm having fun in WAR, but I've had fun in a lot of mmo's for a brief period. But at this point I fully expect this game to go the same way of AOC.

[Rasix]

But at this point I fully expect this game to go the same way of AOC.

Possibly, I'm the token lowbie again like in AOC.  Again, I'm the guy that can't decide on a class due to conflicting desires of playing some sort of DPS (finger wave or fight with tools?), playing a needed class, and trying something outside my comfort zone.  And again, my fairly decent machine is having mixed results, but with a less impressive graphics engine.

However, I'm having fun.  When I stop having fun, I'll stop playing.  Kinda like AOC, which I had fun in also.    One major exception is that I'm pvping in a game, at the scenario level alone, which feels leaps and bounds better than WoW with a reward system that isn't a complete goddamn joke like WoW's is. That could prolong me going back to consoles and single player games exclusively a bit longer than normal.

[Sjofn]

Sjofn said it best the other day, 'Mythic is some sort of idiot savant'.

No, they're pretty much just an idiot. I'm having fun in WAR, but I've had fun in a lot of mmo's for a brief period. But at this point I fully expect this game to go the same way of AOC.

Well, there are a few things I think Mythic does better than anyone else. For WHATEVER REASON, I love their PvP. Love, love, love. Any other game with PvP in it gets a giant "meh" from me, but DAoC and WAR both turn me into some sort of PvP bitch.

The problem is they're completely moronic about other shit. Simple shit other games figured out long ago. And I really don't get why this is.

[schild]

yeah axe tagging ftw according to schild for my chosen would work in TA seperate party Roflles

Would work if you chucked someone in the lava ^_^ Just gotta hit them once and hope no one else does.

[UnSub]

Include me with the calls for a drastic change of xp awards.  But I have never seen a game where such calls have been heeded, no matter how obvious (CoH anyone?).

CoH/V did change the xp awards needed to lvl to make lvling easier.

Admittedly WAR might be waiting until they have a few months of data to work out if xp rates need to be increased, but it does seem odd that so much focus is on a PvP game that you have PvE constantly to get through.

[Falwell]

Doomfist Crater is probably the most enjoyable scenario for me in T3 and I WISH it would pop more often. The biggest drawback to it is that it's a long game. Not quite Phoenix Gate to the timer long, but close.

EDIT: And on the Tor Arnoc issue, yeah it's a problem. We were discussing this topic last night in vent and one guy suggested giving a fairly substantial  XP / renown bonus for "running the circuit." Playing in every scenario in the tier and then turning in a quest for a nice bump.

[Arinon]

Tor Arnoc is a shithole generally.  I’d rather wait 10 minutes for any of the other ones to pop then risk going in there.  It’s entirely governed by the number and intelligence of knockback-enabled people.  I’m happy to pay 10 seconds or 1-1.5k HP for getting punted but it might as well be an insta-gib most of the time.  Tone down the lava damage or the snare already.

There seems to have been a lot of wasted design time spent in the T2 and T3 brackets (haven't seen T4 yet) in an effort to make them much broader then they needed to be.  T1 is great and gives people a taste but is anyone gonna be using the world PvP areas outside T4 like at all?  Seems to me you go out there once, see what it is, then buckle down with the instanced PvP until end game.  It's more fun, and its more productive.  I'm hoping the T4 scenarios don't suffer as much polarization as the other tiers but I doubt it.  Who knows, maybe there is a CTF that doesn't have a huge map and always ends in a low scoring overtime.

Also agree with everyone else about deleveling but that would probably just end up having the whole population queued for 2-3 and ignoring then rest.  What about a random queue option that applies a modifier to renown gain?  Hell with that and proper deleveling you could keep the newbie queues short enough to keep them hooked in 3 months from now when the PQs are ghost towns.

[Hawkbit]

I spent hours today grinding TA, got from 22.5 to 23.5. 

I have a strong suspicion that I'm not going to make it to T4.  The grind is simply not fun. 

I want to bitch more, but my brain is burnt from the same fucking scenario over and over. 

[FatuousTwat]

This is pretty much why I quit playing Cbeta towards the end.

[tazelbain]

Dammit people, it's like you are deliberately trying to burn yourselves out.

[Mrbloodworth]

Dammit people, it like you are deliberately trying burn yourselves out.

Thats what i'm reading.

[schild]

Dammit people, it's like you are deliberately trying burn yourselves out.

I'm not ^_^

[amiable]

If TA is burning you out, stop playing TA, the other scenarios do pop, just not as frequently.  Quest in between.  You won't earn as much XP as you would chaining TA, but you will still advance at relatively decent clip (proportionally).

[rattran]

I ONLY play TA when I get in the guild group. Otherwise I quest, do some open field pvp, and queue for Doomfist Crater. Nice small 'capture the flag and kill people' map, with 3 +25% damage balls for whoever doesn't hold the flag. It tends to take longer than TA (except for blowouts) but not as long as the other scenarios. And racks up huge points for both sides. 4k renown and 20k xp for 12 minutes once an hour seems good to me. It barely popped at all yesterday though.

[Venkman]

First, increase the reward for scenarios/open RvR on underpopulated tiers.  So if you only have a scenario pop once in a hour, make it give 3 times as much xp as a tier that has a scenario pop once every 5 minutes.

Second, double quest xp flat out in tier 3 and tier 4.

Third, and this is the big one, you need to allow deleveling. 

All good ideas. Beta testers were asking for variants on this since last year though, because even back then we saw the writing on the wall. Two things were never really solved:

• What happens when (as in evitably and it's niave to assume otherwise) players do not all level at the same pace? Like, what happened in beta during the few times you could level freely. Like what's happening now. Like what we knew was going to happen all along.
  
• Leveling speed. There was, afaik, never a period of time during which the servers were up long enough for people to be able to test going from 1-40. We always had targeted sessions within specific tiers or open sessions that didn't last more than a week or two for people to level up. Not until near the end, when by then a lot of this was cast in stone.

Hawkbits idea of zone-wide variable XP is also great, but I don't really know if the system can absorb that. It seems much more static statistics driven than based on dynamic formulae.

This isn't to toot the horn of people who were around for a year. Rather, it's to highlight the obvious disagreement Mythic continues to have with these assertions. They just don't seem to agree with what people have noticed in this regard. Or they do but think everything's fine.

[trias_e]

Well, if DAOC is any indication, they'll admit their mistakes and incorporate some of these solutions into the game....3 years from now.

[Nija]

There was, afaik, never a period of time during which the servers were up long enough for people to be able to test going from 1-40.

Oh, there sure was. I got to 34 during one of those times. As a class that doesn't currently exist in the game. Maybe I was just 100% wrong from the get-go, but I always thought the max level was going to be 50, and that by capping us at 40 they were hiding the end game content.

One thing that has existed since there was a single digit number of players on the beta server is the destruction population imbalance. There were dozens of threads talking about it and brainstorming how to get more people playing Order. I guess nothing ever became of it.

[Nebu]

One thing that has existed since there was a single digit number of players on the beta server is the destruction population imbalance. There were dozens of threads talking about it and brainstorming how to get more people playing Order. I guess nothing ever became of it.

Art revamp would do it.  If the order classes looked half as interesting as the destruction classes, problem would be solved.  Zealot, sorc, squig herder, black orc, etc all look better.  Warrior priest is the only decent looking toon on the order side. 

[Goreschach]

Art revamp would do it.  If the order classes looked half as interesting as the destruction classes, problem would be solved.  Zealot, sorc, squig herder, black orc, etc all look better.  Warrior priest is the only decent looking toon on the order side. 

You seem to have confused Witch Hunter and Warrior Priest.

[schild]

He must've. Warrior Priest is like the most uninteresting class I've ever seen in an MMOG.

[Morfiend]

He must've. Warrior Priest is like the most uninteresting class I've ever seen in an MMOG.

You are so wrong, again.

Like John, WP are fantastic.

[schild]

I forgot the word "looking." They are the most uninteresting LOOKING class.

John still sucked.

[rk47]

One thing that has existed since there was a single digit number of players on the beta server is the destruction population imbalance. There were dozens of threads talking about it and brainstorming how to get more people playing Order. I guess nothing ever became of it.

Art revamp would do it.  If the order classes looked half as interesting as the destruction classes, problem would be solved.  Zealot, sorc, squig herder, black orc, etc all look better.  Warrior priest is the only decent looking toon on the order side. 

Y'know being on the Destro side for a week gave me new insight on how Order classes are actually better, but given worse presentation compared to the Destruction counterparts. Let's look at the comparison shall we?

Bright Wizards - Sorcerers : overall BW pulls ahead with single target damage vs sorceror's aoe. I'm kinda mixed, but in my opinion BW, snap-dots + aoes are nastier.

Engineers - Magus : No contest. Magus sucks dick. It has cool presentation but piss poor implementation. Their demons are pathetic and did jackshit. Their spells not doing enough damage to justify their 'ranged dps' tag. Let me give a clear example: Having of their 4 dots being outdamaged by one Bright Wizard detonate of the same level is enough evidence of its suckage.

Order vs Destruction tanks: Nothing comes close to ironbreaker amazing CC & Burst Grudge dps. Nothing. Couple to the fact that Swordmasters get aoe knockbacks that is usable every 10 sec, that is quite a mean thing to encounter at T3 Tor Anroc. Too bad people can't look past the 'a fuckin midget, it sucks' or 'a dress wearing tank, it sucks' to roll one. Who could blame them? Chosen & Black Orcs looks much better. Chosen aura stack mechanics may give Destro the edge in grp buffs & debuffs, but having Ironbreakers with full grudge with 2hander handing out knockbacks and 75% armour reduction attacks is something that can't be ignored.

[HaemishM]

If TA is burning you out, stop playing TA, the other scenarios do pop, just not as frequently.  Quest in between.  You won't earn as much XP as you would chaining TA, but you will still advance at relatively decent clip (proportionally).

That's what I've started doing in T2. Mourkain Temple is really a shitty scenario. Laggy as fuck, and most often degenerates into 1 or 3 fights. Either you are fed through the meat grinder of the chokepoint right around the temple's entrance, or one side gets the murderball and pulls everyone back towards their respective spawn areas. Phoenix Gate is MUCH more interesting to me, and it seems to be more lucrative as well. Less chokepoints, more strategy, and I don't even care if no one gets to 500 for a win before the timer is up. Stone Troll Crossing is decent as well, taking that murderball concept and giving it more strategy than just "Go kill the other guy."

But everyone loves that fucking Temple. If I'm solo, I don't even bother queuing up for MT.

[tazelbain]

People like MT and TA because they are the most farmable.  Other scenarios make you run around a lot.  You get no xp from running.
We should play Doomfist more.  It's focused and isn't biased against order like TA.