Warhammer Online hits 500k

[schild]

You know what's awesome about Bejeweled being in WoW? I didn't thin kit could possibly get more lame to play WoW and then they went and did that.

Fucking rad.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I still don't get the hate schild, considering you are now drooling over what is essentially re-packaged wow with pvp flavor!

[Simond]

I still don't get the hate schild, considering you are now drooling over what is essentially re-packaged wow with pvp flavor!

Second-rate WoW clone, to boot.

[schild]

I still don't get the hate schild, considering you are now drooling over what is essentially re-packaged wow with pvp flavor!

First of all, WoW is a polished and repackaged EQ. This is a repackaged DAOC. And the skin happens to be attractive. And killing feels so, so good.

WoW bored me to tears. I'm not sure how else to explain that. And raiding is beyond lame.

[Simond]

DaoC was less fun than EQ, though.

[schild]

Nothing was less fun than EQ, it just happened to be a lot of people's first girlfriend.

[Simond]

Nah, I played on a Zek so EQ was still pretty fun despite the many, many flaws. If I was talking about a blue server you'd have a damned good point.

[Nija]

Nah, I played on a Zek so EQ was still pretty fun despite the many, many flaws. If I was talking about a blue server you'd have a damned good point.

Playing on a Zek in EQ wasn't as fun as playing UO pre-trammel.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Nah, I played on a Zek so EQ was still pretty fun despite the many, many flaws. If I was talking about a blue server you'd have a damned good point.

Playing on a Zek in EQ wasn't as fun as playing UO pre-trammel.

Those were some fun times. I miss my pirate.

[Nebu]

Nothing was less fun than EQ, it just happened to be a lot of people's first girlfriend.

Some people liked staring at a book for hours and hours or camping spawns for DAYS to get a single drop. 

How could anyone thing that EQ at release was fun beyond the novelty factor?  If EQ released now, we'd all laugh at it.  It was a grind the likes that haven't been seen since. 

[Lakov_Sanite]

Nothing was less fun than EQ, it just happened to be a lot of people's first girlfriend.

Some people liked staring at a book for hours and hours or camping spawns for DAYS to get a single drop. 

How could anyone thing that EQ at release was fun beyond the novelty factor?  If EQ released now, we'd all laugh at it.  It was a grind the likes that haven't been seen since. 

All games/genres evolve, can you honestly say going back and playing castlevania 1 would be fun? Sure there were a lot of shitty elements in EQ but in it's day and at the time it was fun and that's all that matters. Yes some of it was newness, some of it was realizing a 3d fantasy world but that's kind of besides the point. What matters is you enjoyed it while it lasted, some games have longer shelf lifes than others of course(mostly due to how upgradable is your engine) but looking back and saying "well that game sucked" isn't fair, OF COURSE they suck compared to what we have today but that doesnt make someone a catass loser for having enjoyed them when they came out.

[Ratman_tf]

I still don't get the hate schild, considering you are now drooling over what is essentially re-packaged wow with pvp flavor!

Give it a month or two. When Schild gets bored with it, WAR will be the new whipping boy.

[Ratman_tf]

If EQ released now, we'd all laugh at it. 

We did.

[Rasix]

I still don't get the hate schild, considering you are now drooling over what is essentially re-packaged wow with pvp flavor!

Give it a month or two. When Schild gets bored with it, WAR will be the new whipping boy.

How do you figure? AoC just melted into the background and schild was pretty frothy about that title in the beginning.  schild's WoW hate is eternal.

[Rasix]

but that doesnt make someone a catass loser for having enjoyed them when they came out.

Sure it does.  I'm willing to self apply that title for some of the shit I pulled in EQ. Hell, some of the raids I've done in WoW can easily fall into the poop-sock champion category also. Less frequently, though.  WoW made improvements there.

[Ratman_tf]

I still don't get the hate schild, considering you are now drooling over what is essentially re-packaged wow with pvp flavor!

Give it a month or two. When Schild gets bored with it, WAR will be the new whipping boy.

How do you figure? AoC just melted into the background and schild was pretty frothy about that title in the beginning.  schild's WoW hate is eternal.

Oh, I don't doubt he'll still hate it. But at least we'll get a bunch of rants against WAR when the shiny wears off and the grindy sets in.

AoC was pretty blah except for the titties and horses kicking people off bridges. WAR should have some good rant material built up in a couple months.

[schild]

The moment T4 gets populated and I can run a scenario for a weekend straight, I'll hit 40 and the grind will vaporize. I imagine it'll be a few weeks before open RvR kicks in as most will probably go to it after they hit level 40. Which is fine, Realm Rank is an entirely different beast.

My ranting for WAR, should it happen, I can tell you right now will be about this: The Players.

The players in WAR drive me fucking batty. Not because of the way they talk or act. But because they complicate the simplest of things and are somehow bad at a game that delivers character progression on a silver fucking platter. The ranting you're looking for though simply won't exist. Despite all my noise making about the t3/t4 grind, it's nothing like any other MMOG. It's mostly a result of underpopulated servers. Most folks, particularly the ones that didn't latch onto WAR pvp, might complain about it as a grind, but that's just not my bag.

WoW still sucks and everything I've heard about BGs makes it laughable.

[Falconeer]

AoC was pretty blah except for the titties and horses kicking people off bridges.

/derail

You people are so wrong about Conan.

Technical issues and lack of goals that affected stickiness at launch? sure.

"Pretty blah"? Man, get a new pair of glasses. It was never pretty blah to start with, but it is now more and more polished, smoother, less buggy, has the stickiest kind of combat ever in a mmorpg, great storytelling (for MMORPG standards) and arguably the best looking mmo world out there.

And for the records: the reason I keep bugging you all about Conan is that it'll probably have a certain comeback soon because the quality is there. So don't say things you'll have to take back and will eventually make you look like a clueless Gamespot journalist.

P.S: "horses kicking people off bridges" . Bingo. That is what makes Conan so special. The bodies are bodies and the combat feels right 'n good. You need to PvP to notice it, and that is where they failed: contrary to WAR they hid their best asset completely as there's no way you'll ever pvp on pve servers. Proof: right now PVP servers are very healthy while PVE servers are ghost towns.

EDIT: On a lighter note and to make it a worthy derail: The Big Bang Conan Theory AFK! 

[Dtrain]

I'll come out in support of AOC still - I'm having fun with it, but the game isn't without it's problems.

One of the things hampering PVP in AOC is the inability to store and switch to an alternate feat profile. With so many feats being entirely PVE-centric, you get to the point where you're forced to choose between PVP or PVE. My assassin used to be a badass little hit and run PVP'er, easily getting 5 kills to every death. After changing up to a PVE build, I'm lucky if I break even - but I'm now pushing towards the end of the PVE content, which is both fun and frustrating at the same time.

Raid content: About 1/3 of it is well tuned, another 1/3 is poorly tuned against you, and yet another 1/3 is poorly tuned in your favor.

The raid loot is also a problem too - you've only got so many opportunities per week for loot drops, and the drops are all class specific in a game with 12 possible classes. Luck plays way too much of a factor in both getting your guild the correct gear to advanice, and rewarding the players who show up for raids. Our poor MT guardian doesn't quite have all the gear they should. There are people in my guild who have gone to nearly every raid in 2.5 months and have 1 piece of raid gear, while my assassin has only been raiding seriously for a month and has every piece except for 1.

[Hawkbit]

aoclollol

[Oz]

can you honestly say going back and playing castlevania 1 would be fun?

Yes.  Yes i can. 

[Slayerik]

Nah, I played on a Zek so EQ was still pretty fun despite the many, many flaws. If I was talking about a blue server you'd have a damned good point.

Playing on a Zek in EQ wasn't as fun as playing UO pre-trammel.

HAI GUYZ!

I must say I'm a bit surprised, its been about a month since WAR launched right? I expected more.... "Meh!" responses. It being the first major MMO release I skipped since like 10 years ago, a little part of me is dying inside. Now I feel if I started playing I'd be in the ghost towns.

[Falconeer]

Slay,

if I got even the slightest bit of you right, you definitely wouldn't like it.
Or you could briefly like it, but oddly enough not for its PvP.

[Venkman]

I must say I'm a bit surprised, its been about a month since WAR launched right? I expected more.... "Meh!" responses. It being the first major MMO release I skipped since like 10 years ago, a little part of me is dying inside. Now I feel if I started playing I'd be in the ghost towns.

I was in exactly the same place. But then I realized there was nothing else I really wanted to play in the off hours and WotLK is six weeks away at best (and that for me is on the bubble too). So a month in I decided to get WAR.

It's meh in the sense that you've played it before, but they've always done a better job of integrrating PvP at the low levels than any other MMO imho (and I laughed out loud, with soda on monitor, at someone's comparison of WAR to TF2... ).

The ghost town effect isn't so bad. Don't expect to do much PQ stuff in T1 because there aren't enough people in that specific race's newb area at this point (which we knew was going to happen). But there's plenty of T1 Scenario PvP to be found. Wait times on Bat Country's server (Ulthuan) aren't really that long at the low levels. But the game will repeatedly yell at you for the sheer audacity of playing on a high population server

[tazelbain]

It is pretty dumb to yell at someone for joining the underdog side on a server.

Slay won't like it.  There is no punishment for losing.

[Draegan]

WAR competes with TF2. It doesn't compete with WoW.


It might start competeing with WoW when you can accomplish something in a 15 minute playsession in WoW.

I would say you can accomplish more in WAR than WOW in 15 minutes.

PVP:
WAR wins with Queue anywhere anytime.  WOW you have to be in a specific spot.

PVE:
Same, except you can do a little PVE while waiting for your PVP queue to pop in WAR.

[Slayerik]

It is pretty dumb to yell at someone for joining the underdog side on a server.

Slay won't like it.  There is no punishment for losing.

This might be the case. Had a pretty long conversation about why me and some of my Eve corp mates keep coming back, a lot of it is the liberty you have and sheer amount of options you have for making money. The other is that, even after years of PVPing in Eve, we still get that rush. It has its downsides...can take an hour to find a fight, but every fight in Eve is a different scenario. Knowing all the shiptypes, their advantages/disadvantages, and having to weigh them before commiting to a fight where you can lose your shirt.

I think my problem with most MMOs is the predictability of encounters. You know its a 15 on 15 fight. You can even check their classes on a scoreboard. Even is cool for pure competition....but can be monotonous. There is no real depth to the combat.

Maybe WAR is different. Maybe there are some cool dynamics. In the end, I'm guessing it is glorified WoW Battlegrounds. Sport PVP. Cool for many, not so much for me.

[Lantyssa]

As a carebear I enjoy PvP in WAR.  I'm not alone.  That right there should make you worry it's not for you.

Or you can take great delight in being able to kill us carebears.  That could work, too.

[Simond]

WAR competes with TF2. It doesn't compete with WoW.


It might start competeing with WoW when you can accomplish something in a 15 minute playsession in WoW.

I would say you can accomplish more in WAR than WOW in 15 minutes.

PVP:
WAR wins with Queue anywhere anytime.  WOW you have to be in a specific spot.

PVE:
Same, except you can do a little PVE while waiting for your PVP queue to pop in WAR.

...until 3.2 (or whatever patch it turns out to be in), when Blizzard steals it from WAR.

[Draegan]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10532281614&pageNo=2#22

Tigole:

Actually, we have been discussing new battlegrounds quite a bit lately. Wrath of the Lich King will feature Strand of the Ancients (attack/defend) as well as Wintergrasp (non-instanced, world PvP).

But past that, we are exploring ideas that would involve expanding our Battleground content in future patches and beyond. We believe we have some strong ideas for improving Battlegrounds and PvP as a whole in the game and we're definitely going to focus on improvements in the future. Now, it's very early to be talking about some of this stuff but I think it's important for the community to know that it's on our minds.

Our general thought is that we could provide more BG content over time. The BG content that we could provide could be of higher quality with a higher degree of accessibility. Overall, we'd like to have more content and variety. We also want the gameplay experience in the BGs to be better directed. We're also exploring the concept of a complimentary "competitive" bg system as well. Over time, we'd like the focus of PvP to shift back to being more BG-centric and more focused on Horde versus Alliance -- the core of our game.

We're also planning on improving some Battleground and PvP features in general. For example, we want to give you the ability to queue for Battlegrounds from anywhere in the world. We're also going to explore EXP gain through the PvP system as well as low level itemization to support that.

Please don't take this post as a promise. This won't be an overnight process. Not all of these things are set in stone and guaranteed to happen. It would take us a while to shift in this direction. But these are some of the current thoughts on the development team. I think it's important for you guys to know some of our thought process in regards to PvP.

[Lakov_Sanite]

...

Yes, that's what Simond was referring too, it's even got it's own post on the wow forums here on f13 and another where i myself pointed it out in the wotlk thread. There's even a literary version of adding captions to a picture(read: not funny) about it. It should be frankly shocking to no one blizzard is taking a good idea from warhammer and putting it in their game.

Reactions to this piss me off doubly.

First the wow fans that cry blizzard is jumping on the bandwagon....seriously, that's ALL wow does but you know, they do it well and that's why the game does well. Warhammer has some very fun systems and it'd be stupid for games not to learn from them.

Secondly the warhammer fans that just snicker and see this as proof of their games superiority. Just because a game has some very good things doesn't validate or invalidate that game as a whole, get over yourselves.

So um...I lost my track of thought here...oh right, shut up all of you.

[Kageru]

That Tigole post is also indicative of some sort of developer turf war in regards to WoW PvP. One developer (Kalgan) is focused on arena PvP and has tied all progression to it, possibly because a competitive rating system needs lots of cannon-fodder to function. This has annoyed those who enjoy the occasional battleground, which I believe are the wow analogy to WAR scenarios. Frankly this is the best gift WAR could ask for.

Seeing Tigole then come out in favor of expanding battlefields was.... interesting.

[Register]

WAR competes with TF2. It doesn't compete with WoW.

It might start competeing with WoW when you can accomplish something in a 15 minute playsession in WoW.

I would say you can accomplish more in WAR than WOW in 15 minutes.

PVP:
WAR wins with Queue anywhere anytime.  WOW you have to be in a specific spot.

PVE:
Same, except you can do a little PVE while waiting for your PVP queue to pop in WAR.

Not quite as simple as that in my opinion.

When you join the scenario in the middle of a zone, when you finish you get sent back to where you are. Many times I have come back almost dead with 1-2 random mob(s) on me by the time the screen is loaded (esp bad for clothies).

Also, many quest areas are knee-deep in ultra fast spawning aggros - you just cant clear your way to a road (safe spot) in the 1-2 mins (for the above safety reasons), and you can't join the scenario if you are fighting (or bugged in combat despite nothing around aggroing you - happened to me).

[UnSub]

Although there are some game issues to consider, I really don't like that mobs in WAR can respawn within aggro distance of a player character.

Also, if the player character respawns in an area after a scenario, all mobs around them for a certain distance that aren't players should despawn. It's no good if you are trying to see how you did on the scenario scoreboard only to start hearing combat sounds because you've landed on top of a mob or two.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Although there are some game issues to consider, I really don't like that mobs in WAR can respawn within aggro distance of a player character.

Also, if the player character respawns in an area after a scenario, all mobs around them for a certain distance that aren't players should despawn. It's no good if you are trying to see how you did on the scenario scoreboard only to start hearing combat sounds because you've landed on top of a mob or two.

Well to me at least the problem is that when you come back if you were mid fight you don't get any hp back AND you pop back in the place where you were when the scenario popped, not where you were when you accepted it. If they just allowed you to find a safe place to click accept and then return to it would make everything a lot easier.