Warhammer Online hits 500k

[UnSub]

If Mythic added that one lizard-man good race they might see better balance...who knows.  race/style is lacking something.

I would love to play as a Lizardman class. From memory, Lizardmen in WAR had a great tank class already set.

Thus far, I've played as a Witch Hunter and a Shadow Warrior. I like being a WH a lot more, but the SW ability to plink away at range had its charms.

Oh, and I made my SW a female so I'd have a masculine elf fighter I could believe in.

[Mrbloodworth]

[Slayerik]

I always wanted to play a Murlock!

Arggguuuuubbblarrrrrggggggg

[Riggswolfe]

I always wanted to play a Murlock!

Arggguuuuubbblarrrrrggggggg

If the lizardman tank made that sound they'd be great for RVR. Everyone would go to kill them on pure instinct.

[HaemishM]

I really haven't clue one how to counter this within the WAR lore, but you need to offer a whole race that looks MUCH less effeminate on the Order side. (and no, the paladin-likes with the headdress wouldn't have helped)  Funny that the answer is the exact opposite of what WOW faced 4 years ago.

That's easy. The Warhammer lore has plenty of badasses on the order side. Hell, just add the Knights of the Blazing Suns back to the Empire side (they were the original Empire tank class that got shitcanned). Put those guys back in and that would help. Or you could add any of the Empire Knightly Orders or the Great Swords.

But if you have to expand, add the Bretonnians. Think King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table, with a side order of Robin Hood and his Merry Men and some Lady of the Lake type sorceresses.

[Lum]

I would expect Bretonnians and Skaven to be added in an expansion pack.

[Ingmar]

Bretonnians and Empire on the same side is madness I tell you! But yeah I figure they're on the hook for an expansion potentially, maybe with Skaven in the opposite slot.

If they want to inject some "badassness" into Order, there are plenty of options even with just the sides we have:

- Put hammerers back in. A dwarf with a big winged helmet and a two handed hammer the size of an ogre would up the badassness component of the dwarf side significantly.
- Alternately, they could make a class out of slayers, which are the tattooed mohawk berserker type dwarfs

Empire is where the real money is though. Knights of the Blazing Sun are the guys with the feather helmets, and a lot of the other Knightly Orders have those too, but there are some other options:

- Order of the Sacred Scythe: http://uk.games-workshop.com/empire/knights-chapters/10/
- Knights of Morr: http://uk.games-workshop.com/empire/knights-chapters/12/
- Hunters of Sigmar: http://uk.games-workshop.com/empire/knights-chapters/6/

Any of those skull-festooned types of knights would probably be attractive to at least some of the OMG SPIKES AND HORNS destruction people. There's other stuff I could dig up given more time, too.

The high elves all have pointy helmets so I guess people won't like them regardless though.

[mutantmagnet]

Yeah and if Mythic wants to introduce new races to try and fix the population problems then Skaven can never join Destro. The same goes for Vampire Counts. Nothing that is remotely acceptable for Order has a built in fanbase appeal like those two races.

Maybe the Tomb Kings can match them but I'm unsure whether or not undead skeleton/zombie like monsters have a broad appeal as something you would want as your character.

Trying to use the Forsaken faction from WoW as anecdotal evidence is difficult because of WOTF and when considering the zone designs, I found the questlines from the Undead starting zone a lot more fun than any other preTBC faction.

[Ingmar]

I think you are perhaps overestimating the appeal of the furry rat guys, and they are the logical choice for next Destruction side. Past Skaven you start to get into fairly iffy lore justifications for groups siding up with Chaos.

I try to pretend Vampire Counts don't even exist, they're kind of shark-jumping lore-wise imo.

[Oz]

Question for those that know the warhammer IP.  is it always only 2 sides (order vs destruction)? or is there a 3rd independent faction ever involved?

[Ingmar]

No, normally it is everyone against everyone essentially. Cutting things down to two sides was something done just to make the RVR thing (and class design) more workable.

If you were just playing the tabletop wargame it would be perfectly normal to be fighting High Elves vs. Empire, or even Empire vs. Empire.

[Oz]

aaaahhhhh i see

[Numtini]

We can always go back to my suggestion that one race swaps between the two based on balance.

I agree btw, add Skaven and it's all over.

[Riggswolfe]

Why are you guys assuming people will want to play furry ratmen?

Order things that could up the coolness factor:

Dwarf Slayers! This should have been in from the start. Screw lore, people would play these.
Morr priests and Raven Knights. These guys look really cool.
Ulric Beserkers. White Wolf fur wearing crazies...
Brettonians, and pray the U.S. fanbase doesn't make the France connection.


But yeah, if they add Vampire Counts it's all over for Order players. And the game. You'd see I'm guessing 4:1 numbers in favor of Destruction.

[Nebu]

Why are you guys assuming people will want to play furry ratmen?

I want to play a furry ratman!  I love small races.  Having fur is a bonus. 

Damnit, I just opened the floodgates on a bunch of furry jokes.

[Lantyssa]

Damn furries.

(I'd play a Skaven, too.)

[Ingmar]

Are the rat guys in EQ2 hugely popular?

[pxib]

I believe the PvE content also has a part in the population imbalance. The message, over and over again, on both sides is that Order is weak. Their homes are burning, their peasants are cowering, they are ON THE DEFENSIVE. The forces of Destruction are on the rampage: kicking ass and taking names. So in addition to the lack of "badass" appearance, there's a lack of "badass" storyline. The Empire is deeply corruptible, the High Elves got rich and lazy, the Dwarves LOST THEIR GREAT HALLS to a horde of brainless greenskins. Folks generally prefer offense to defense... it feels stronger and the rules are more straightforward.

Maybe by the time you get to tier 4, the storyline makes it sound like the Alliance of Order is turning the tide. The first two tiers feel like something of an organized retreat.

[schild]

Are the rat guys in EQ2 hugely popular?

Not as popular as the Fae but they're pretty fucking awesome.

That said, no other game has the stickiness of WAR simply based on the lore for me. Except WH40k, but who has faith in Vigil?

Also, if they add Vampire Counts, yes it's all fucking over. Same with Skaven. Order will be the underdog forever. I mean what are they going to do? Throw the fucking Wood Elves at us? I'd play a Tomb King in a hot fucking minute though. I'd probably play a Grail Knight for Bretonnia if they added that. I still think not having High Elf Reavers was a mistake. Dragon Princes could've been cool also.

Really, they just need to get permission to make up some awesome shit at this point. Because really, I think it's hopeless but I'll still stick by it and play out my Shadow Warrior to RR max if I can.

[Ingmar]

Wood Elves would draw some players, IMO, solely based on these dudes:



They're not as alien looking as the high elves, so more likely to capture that whole night elf/blood elf demographic, and the double sword adds a fanboy  factor I think.

Another option is mercs, they could add Dogs of War for both sides, which would have the side effect of easing the balancing task too. Might be perceived as a lazy thing, but it could work.

[Trippy]

I would expect Bretonnians and Skaven to be added in an expansion pack.

Adding Bretonnians without also adding in mounted combat would be pointless.

[mutantmagnet]

Wood Elves would draw some players, IMO, solely based on these dudes:



They're not as alien looking as the high elves, so more likely to capture that whole night elf/blood elf demographic, and the double sword adds a fanboy  factor I think.

Another option is mercs, they could add Dogs of War for both sides, which would have the side effect of easing the balancing task too. Might be perceived as a lazy thing, but it could work.

Bah! The only reason I even want to see wood elves because, like the greenskins, they are also closely partnered with an even more awesome race.

This would be purely awesome.

[Arthur_Parker]

I kinda hoped they would keep Skaven as a third side for special events & for GM's.  As Skaven work from underground they would make a good race for players to "unlock" even if they could only use them for special "raid" events on capital cities or whatever.

If they restricted the unlock event to very rare items plus also only enabled them for both sides on balanced servers & the out numbered side on unbalanced servers, it might even help even the sides.

[HaemishM]

I'd play a Wood Elf, but only if they made either War Dancer or Scout a class. War Dancers would be fucking awesome.

Otherwise, I'd be all over Brettonians, mounted combat or no. It's what I played in the tabletop game.

Skaven would be an absolute balance tipper to the Destro side, though. Those fuckers are cool as hell.

[kaid]

I want skaven darn it

For melee dps gutter runners light armored hard hitting fast melee combatants.

For a ranged class for skaven jazail teams or poison wind globadiers

For tank storm vermin obviously enough

For caster/healer gray seers.

[murdoc]

Who cares about new races, give me my Choppa back!

[Cadaverine]

I want skaven darn it

For melee dps gutter runners light armored hard hitting fast melee combatants.

For a ranged class for skaven jazail teams or poison wind globadiers

For tank storm vermin obviously enough

For caster/healer gray seers.

This.

Though, I think making Plague Monks the tank class would be an interesting twist on things.  And Warpfire throwers for the ranged dps.

[Count Nerfedalot]

Hmm. From all the comments above, the solution seems obvious:  toss the lore and add Skavens on the side of order!     Instabalance in one swell foop!

srlsy, think about it.  How many bazillion different ways can you come up with an excuse for them switching sides anyway?  What with universe twisting magic mixed with mundane intrigue as tools, it's really no worse than the combinations they've already munged together to make their neoOrder and neoChaos teams.

[Trippy]

Hmm. From all the comments above, the solution seems obvious:  toss the lore and add Skavens on the side of order!     Instabalance in one swell foop!

GW won't allow it.

[Grimwell]

A new race of any sort won't create some magical balance. The races are flavor, the classes are where you look for balance (in WAR). Sticking Skaven on the side of Order won't do squat if they don't make good classes in terms of balance.

Just saying...

[schild]

A new race of any sort won't create some magical balance. The races are flavor, the classes are where you look for balance (in WAR). Sticking Skaven on the side of Order won't do squat if they don't make good classes in terms of balance.

Just saying...

Just saying what? That skaven aren't hugely popular? That Mythic would somehow just make a bunch of shitty unflavorful classes? I think you might've missed the point. Everyone here is simply assuming the skaven classes would be skaven appropriate, and if they added them for destro, even the most boring of skaven classes would probably outnumber the most hugely OP Order class - and they're most likely right.

[Venkman]

That Mythic would somehow just make a bunch of shitty unflavorful classes?

Err... this is not what you're saying nor is it what Grimwell meant. However, look at which classes are being played, overlay that with DAoC, and reread the question 

[UnSub]

From an old interview I read, I was fairly sure that Skaven were being considered for a third, separate side. Perhaps even one players couldn't play.

[schild]

Skaven are a race and they're in the game and players can't play them. I can't say that interview got many questions answered.

[Grimwell]

A new race of any sort won't create some magical balance. The races are flavor, the classes are where you look for balance (in WAR). Sticking Skaven on the side of Order won't do squat if they don't make good classes in terms of balance.

Just saying...

Just saying what? That skaven aren't hugely popular? That Mythic would somehow just make a bunch of shitty unflavorful classes? I think you might've missed the point. Everyone here is simply assuming the skaven classes would be skaven appropriate, and if they added them for destro, even the most boring of skaven classes would probably outnumber the most hugely OP Order class - and they're most likely right.

Lower that Skaven Fan Club defensive erection! 

What I was saying is that, in the context of the games design, a new race means squat. The balance is centered upon classes, so asking for a new race to solve balance issues is like asking for a cup of hot lava when you are in the desert and thirsty. It's not going to fix the problem even if it might be interesting in and of itself.

Skaven are cool. People like playing rats for some reason. You've been around waaaaaay too long to go fanboi and honestly think that sticking in a cool race because they can't possibly screw up the classes is a solution. Anything can be screwed up. We all know that.