Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
May 21, 2022, 04:25:27 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  World of Warcraft  |  Topic: WotLK to wipe honor and marks 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Go Down Print
Author Topic: WotLK to wipe honor and marks  (Read 39549 times)
Xanthippe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4779


Reply #35 on: September 30, 2008, 08:21:17 PM


  Pretty sure that's a "bad thing".  They're just going to adjust the costs for level 80 items to account for the fact that some people have 75k honor banked, unlike myself who just finished levelling my rogue to 70 a week ago.  Seems to me like it's just going to be a steeper curve for those that are behind already, but maybe I'm misunderstanding it.



Won't matter since the gear is going to be arena dependent anyway, right?
Azaroth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1959


Reply #36 on: September 30, 2008, 09:08:10 PM


  Pretty sure that's a "bad thing".  They're just going to adjust the costs for level 80 items to account for the fact that some people have 75k honor banked, unlike myself who just finished levelling my rogue to 70 a week ago.  Seems to me like it's just going to be a steeper curve for those that are behind already, but maybe I'm misunderstanding it.



Jist: They're both bad options, because it's a bad system.

F  is inviting you to start Quarto. Do you want to Accept (Alt+C) or Decline (Alt+D) the invitation?
 
  You have accepted the invitation to start Quarto.
 
F  says:
don't know what this is
Az  says:
I think it's like
Az  says:
where we pour milk on the stomach alien from total recall
Koyasha
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1363


Reply #37 on: October 01, 2008, 03:05:50 AM

You'd think they could put in a login message popup box (not the motd, cause nobody reads those and all) or something that warns people about this, so the ones that don't read the forums can not be surprised.  Gee, who'da thunk of that?

And if it's on the MOTD, website, and a popup box and people are still 'surprised', then forget them.  I guess I'll have to start working on banking up honor.  Figured I'd be able to handle that post expansion with a little leisure and still get the rewards in time to be kinda competitive.

-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
Ailanreanter, Arcanaloth
Simond
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6742


Reply #38 on: October 01, 2008, 07:04:28 AM

Yeah, but honour gain will be scaled up at 80 as well (see L60 vs L70 honour rewards) so it'll be a wash.
Hell, if they've got any sense they'll nerf the honour costs back down a patch or three down the line after the hoarders have blown all their honour on the blue pvp gear.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Drubear
Terracotta Army
Posts: 115


Reply #39 on: October 01, 2008, 07:42:40 AM

And, ah, not to be cynical or anything, but if there's to be an honor wipe, and the stuff they'd be offering in the interim aren't all that attractive, why bother running the honor-hamster wheel while you're waiting for WotLK to show up?

I daresay it's more about interim retention and eyeballs than whinings now or after the expansion shows up (like anyone's gonna remember the wipe while they're playing their DK's for the first 3 months or so.)
Dren
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2419


Reply #40 on: October 01, 2008, 07:45:50 AM

To me, the arena crap makes this wipe or no wipe issue moot.  You are still going to have to start at ground zero to get your Arena scores up to snuff in order to get the best stuff.

I really wish they'd put in a system where Arena scores and points just got your discounts on items rather than locking people out of them.  Everyone should be able to get the items if they build up enough honor and marks.  Forcing us to play a portion of the PvP game that most everyone hates just doesn't make sense.
Xeyi
Terracotta Army
Posts: 104


Reply #41 on: October 02, 2008, 09:16:50 AM

A European CM just confirmed that arena points from Lake Wintergrasp were just for the beta.

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=5963178529&pageNo=8&sid=1#154

K9
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7441


Reply #42 on: October 02, 2008, 09:48:22 AM

weak.

I liked an idea put in that thread though; scarp the whole arena-team concept and give everyone a personal rating that changes game by game, then let everyone queue for arenas similar to BGs. If you win you get points, if you loose you don't. Rating purely determines who you get matched with and against. This would make BGs more accessible and more amusing I reckon.

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Lightstalker
Terracotta Army
Posts: 305


Reply #43 on: October 02, 2008, 11:59:40 AM

Rating for match-making purposes should have an effective floor equal to the highest rated item you have (on, in inventory, in the bank).

Would mitigate a great deal of the sand-bagging that the arena system encourages for all but the best players.  Of course the arena system isn't about finding a good match for players as much as it is about trying to eliminate obvisouly bad matches.  That their metric does not track with team skill or ability just means they are measuring the wrong things with their (team) rating system (specifically they are discarding information about past performance that is carried with the rating requirements on the items a player uses).

I'd really prefer a gear budget based on team rating and independant/temporary gear for arena combats - where one picks a set of arena gear each week with the team update, so Arena PvP gear and BG or PvE domains could remain entirely seperate and not muddle each other's balance points.  The same character would then have different limits imposed on different teams depending on their performance with that team - and none of the equipment could escape the specialized arena format.
Simond
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6742


Reply #44 on: October 02, 2008, 04:10:36 PM

Speaking of PvP: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10532281614&sid=1&pageNo=2#22
Quote
Actually, we have been discussing new battlegrounds quite a bit lately. Wrath of the Lich King will feature Strand of the Ancients (attack/defend) as well as Wintergrasp (non-instanced, world PvP).

But past that, we are exploring ideas that would involve expanding our Battleground content in future patches and beyond. We believe we have some strong ideas for improving Battlegrounds and PvP as a whole in the game and we're definitely going to focus on improvements in the future. Now, it's very early to be talking about some of this stuff but I think it's important for the community to know that it's on our minds.

Our general thought is that we could provide more BG content over time. The BG content that we could provide could be of higher quality with a higher degree of accessibility. Overall, we'd like to have more content and variety. We also want the gameplay experience in the BGs to be better directed. We're also exploring the concept of a complimentary "competitive" bg system as well. Over time, we'd like the focus of PvP to shift back to being more BG-centric and more focused on Horde versus Alliance -- the core of our game.

We're also planning on improving some Battleground and PvP features in general. For example, we want to give you the ability to queue for Battlegrounds from anywhere in the world. We're also going to explore EXP gain through the PvP system as well as low level itemization to support that.

Please don't take this post as a promise. This won't be an overnight process. Not all of these things are set in stone and guaranteed to happen. It would take us a while to shift in this direction. But these are some of the current thoughts on the development team. I think it's important for you guys to know some of our thought process in regards to PvP.

"Thanks for the beta-testing, Mythic. We'll be stealing that now"  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Fordel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8306


Reply #45 on: October 02, 2008, 06:09:47 PM


and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Rasix
Moderator
Posts: 14956

I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #46 on: October 02, 2008, 06:21:22 PM


Wow.  I can't see myself going back to WoW for the pvp again.  Reading that made me somewhat physically ill.

-Rasix
Ratman_tf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3818


Reply #47 on: October 02, 2008, 06:27:02 PM

Ass backward.




 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful."
-Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation.
Xeyi
Terracotta Army
Posts: 104


Reply #48 on: October 02, 2008, 06:41:37 PM


I find their stance on this bizarre really.  How hard would it be to add a simple pvp set obtainable solely through honour.

For some reason they seem to think that people who don't like arenas are suddenly going to see the light, and if they don't then there's no space for them in pvp at all.

pxib
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4680


Reply #49 on: October 02, 2008, 07:34:21 PM

Indeed. Where WoW suffers is that WAR is so obviously designed with PvP in mind, from the ground up, while Warcraft is... not. For all the buggy implementation of things that WoW has right, WAR makes sure that no skill, no talent, no equipment, no character class is useless while in combat with other players.

WAR's PvE suffers for it. WoW can't afford to abandon their endgame raiding crews.

If WoW copies the queue system, PvP drops, and experience for PvPing... vastly increases the variety of battleground types and maps... adds some sort of ability scaling thing that artificially "levels up" characters at the bottom end of battleground tiers... then they still wind up with gameplay and character classes that are best suited for their PvE roles.

WAR has a very safe niche, and so long as they're happy with niche numbers they've got nothing to worry about.

if at last you do succeed, never try again
Fordel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8306


Reply #50 on: October 02, 2008, 08:37:40 PM

Blizzard just keeps trying to apply "PvE Reward Theory" to PvP.

With the expected results.  awesome, for real

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27447

Badge Whore


Reply #51 on: October 02, 2008, 08:39:30 PM

That's because you're seeing PVE-centric guys designing a PVP system. None of this should surprise you.  For all their cries of "Oh yeah, we love PVP and have lots of devs who do it" it's patently obvious they don't "get it."   it's still a distraction and tacked-on.  No, don't play WoW for pvp, ever, despite their attempts to make arenas some odd e-sport.   If you don't mind the imbalances and the gear-discrepancies then it can be ok.  But that's it, just OK.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Fordel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8306


Reply #52 on: October 02, 2008, 08:45:13 PM

The only truly surprising thing, is the persistence!


Blizzard is SLOW, but they usually figure it out after while.

Not so here!

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27447

Badge Whore


Reply #53 on: October 02, 2008, 08:49:22 PM

Arenas, like meeting stones, are someone's pet project.  Once that person moves on we'll probably see them fixed or altered to something more sensible.  That it's taken this long leads me to believe it's Tigole or Kalgan's baby.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Fordel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8306


Reply #54 on: October 02, 2008, 09:19:12 PM

Kalgan's is my guess, Tigole is much more into the Raid stuff and world design, it's always Kalgan trying to explain their stupid PvP stuff.


But even meeting stones didn't last THIS long!



and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Koyasha
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1363


Reply #55 on: October 03, 2008, 05:13:31 AM

Wait, at first I thought the gear would require an arena standing, but on looking closer it sounds as though it simply requires arena points?  Shrug.  I don't see a big deal, in that case.  Arena points are easy to get and don't require the annoying hours spent in battlegrounds, or worse, the goddamn time spent in battlegrounds I don't even want to do and that we always lose at, for the damn marks.

-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
Ailanreanter, Arcanaloth
Zetor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3230


WWW
Reply #56 on: October 03, 2008, 05:54:05 AM

Yes, the "noob-level" (Savage) s5 gear doesn't require rating. However, the better s5 sets (Hateful, Deadly) require 1800+ and 2000+ ratings respectively. It is my understanding that you'll be able to buy all three sets at the start of season5.

Considering that there is a two tier difference between Savage and Deadly... yeah, there'll be a power gap. A HUGE power gap at that, even worse than how it is now (at least now you can get season2 via honor).


-- Z.

rk47
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6236

The Patron Saint of Radicalthons


Reply #57 on: October 03, 2008, 06:03:17 AM



Quote
I, for one, feel that arena is far more important than battlegrounds or outdoor pvp will ever be as it is the only PvP that really can develope your character.
awesome, for real

Colonel Sanders is back in my wallet
rk47
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6236

The Patron Saint of Radicalthons


Reply #58 on: October 03, 2008, 06:16:23 AM

Indeed. Where WoW suffers is that WAR is so obviously designed with PvP in mind, from the ground up, while Warcraft is... not. For all the buggy implementation of things that WoW has right, WAR makes sure that no skill, no talent, no equipment, no character class is useless while in combat with other players.

This. Is truth. I taunted as a tank to deal 30% damage more on tanks that ignore me, and did an aoe taunt to EVERYONE in front of me to deal 30% less damage to ANYONE ELSE but ME. How awesome is that?

Colonel Sanders is back in my wallet
Xeyi
Terracotta Army
Posts: 104


Reply #59 on: October 03, 2008, 10:23:35 AM

This thread/Kalgan parody from the US official forums is a few days old now but it sums things up quite nicely  awesome, for real

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10544538303&sid=1&pageNo=1

Quote

YOU'RE GOING TO ARENA, AND YOU ARE GOING TO LIKE IT, YOU HEAR ME?!

AIN'T NO WAY IS THE BOTTOM FALLING OUT OF THE GLORIOUS PYRAMID OF SKILL MY ARENAS HAVE CONSTRUCTED, I WON'T PUT UP WITH THIS CRAP. COME WOTLK,YOU'RE ALL GOING TO GET YOUR HANDS DIRTY IN MY LINE-OF-SIGHT, COUNTER-COMP, RUN-AWAY-AND-DRINK, BURST-THE-WARRIOR, TRAIN-THE-LOCK, OOM-THE-HEALERS, FLAVOUR-OF-THE-MONTH, SAND-BOX CREATION THAT IS THE BE-ALL-END-ALL OF ANY KIND OF PVP EXPERIENCE YOU PATHETIC RETARDS WILL EVER SEE IN ANY MMO OF YOUR SHORT INSIGNIFICANT LIVES. I MEAN JESUS CHRIST YOU GUYS SHOULD BE SIPHONING OFF SOME OF YOUR GRANDMOTHERS PENSION TO ME CAUSE THIS IS JUST SO GOOD.

AND IF ANY OF YOU SKILLESS WORMS DARE THINK OTHERWISE YOU"RE GOING TO HAVE TO SETTLE FOR PVE BLUE GEAR, GOT IT? GOOD LUCK PVPING IN THAT CRAP, YOU'RE GOING TO BLOODY-WELL NEED IT. THEN AGAIN, THAT'S ALL YOU BATTLEGROUND / WORLD PVP LOVING FAILURES DESERVE. HELL, YOU'RE LUCKY YOU'RE EVEN ALLOWED TO BUY WOTLK WITHOUT HAVING A PERSONAL RATING OF 2200. WOW ISN'T ABOUT FUN ANYMORE, IT'S ABOUT GODDAMN SKILL, YOU HEAR ME? AT LEAST WATCHING THE GLADIATORS (THAT ARE PROBABLY BETTER THAN YOU IN RL AS WELL) MORTAL-STRIKING / DIVINE-STORMING / SHADOW-STEPPING YOUR NOOB ASS INTO OBLIVION IN BATTLEGROUNDS WILL KEEP ME AMUSED AS I CREATE THE NEXT TIER OF ARENA GEAR WHILE BENCHING DOUBLE YOUR BODY WEIGHT WITH ONE ARM.

LOVE,
FROM YOUR PVP OVERLORD AND COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF,
KALGAN
Lakov_Sanite
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7590


Reply #60 on: October 03, 2008, 10:52:13 AM

Quote
From Tigole: We're also planning on improving some Battleground and PvP features in general. For example, we want to give you the ability to queue for Battlegrounds from anywhere in the world. We're also going to explore EXP gain through the PvP system as well as low level itemization to support that.

Resistance is futile, all mmo's will be assimilated.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Ratman_tf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3818


Reply #61 on: October 03, 2008, 12:18:07 PM

Arena points are easy to get and don't require the annoying hours spent in battlegrounds,

Slamming my dick in a door is easy, but I wouldn't do it either.



 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful."
-Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation.
Azaroth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1959


Reply #62 on: October 03, 2008, 10:06:25 PM

Quote
HELL, YOU'RE LUCKY YOU'RE EVEN ALLOWED TO BUY WOTLK WITHOUT HAVING A PERSONAL RATING OF 2200.

I lol'd.

F  is inviting you to start Quarto. Do you want to Accept (Alt+C) or Decline (Alt+D) the invitation?
 
  You have accepted the invitation to start Quarto.
 
F  says:
don't know what this is
Az  says:
I think it's like
Az  says:
where we pour milk on the stomach alien from total recall
Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075

Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #63 on: October 04, 2008, 12:49:35 AM

Arena points are easy to get and don't require the annoying hours spent in battlegrounds,

Slamming my dick in a door is easy, but I wouldn't do it either.

I can play rock/paper/scissors while rolling my face across a keyboard.

That doesn't make it a skill.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Ratman_tf
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3818


Reply #64 on: October 06, 2008, 02:07:17 AM

Arena points are easy to get and don't require the annoying hours spent in battlegrounds,

Slamming my dick in a door is easy, but I wouldn't do it either.

I can play rock/paper/scissors while rolling my face across a keyboard.

That doesn't make it a skill.

Sounds kinda fun though!  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?



 "What I'm saying is you should make friends with a few catasses, they smell funny but they're very helpful."
-Calantus makes the best of a smelly situation.
Dren
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2419


Reply #65 on: October 06, 2008, 09:52:45 AM

Arena points are easy to get and don't require the annoying hours spent in battlegrounds, or worse, the goddamn time spent in battlegrounds I don't even want to do and that we always lose at, for the damn marks.

Arena points are easy, sure.  That is if you have people you can run arenas with on a consistent basis.

I don't have that.  Thus, I'm locked out of a huge portion of the goodies.

Why does there have to be only one way to get the best items?  As the parody posted earlier suggests, Blizzard must think Arenas is the best thing since sex.
Koyasha
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1363


Reply #66 on: October 06, 2008, 12:38:30 PM

I was talking about arena points being easy even when you're counting on losing every match.  At that point friends or people you can run on a consistent basis with are irrelevant.  Just get a team made, and then do it every week on your own if you have to.  Still get the losing points even if you ran 10 fights solo.

-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.-
Ailanreanter, Arcanaloth
Zetor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3230


WWW
Reply #67 on: October 06, 2008, 01:06:02 PM

And those points will be only used to buy the low-end arena gear [which is 2 tiers behind the top-end arena gear] unless you have the 1800ish rating for the second set or 2000ish rating for the 3rd set.

(for comparison's sake, you can buy season2 with honor right now)

Edited for clarification: It's a stupid system that screws non-"elite" players twice compared to the current system (which is unfriendly towards them to begin with, much more so than s2 or even s3 was)... first they'll have to endure a massive gear disadvantage in arena without even being able to prepare by running BGs for the 'starter' gear, then they actually have to spend their hard-earned (and few) arena points on that very same gear while they get consistently roflstomped in battlegrounds by the leeter arena players who have full deadly sets.

And that's not even mentioning players who join in arena late (when everyone's already geared up)... it's not going to be pretty.


-- Z.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 01:09:20 PM by Zetor »

Azaroth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1959


Reply #68 on: October 06, 2008, 01:37:45 PM

Wrath of the Lich King - "Grind or Quit"

Coming Nov. 13th.


F  is inviting you to start Quarto. Do you want to Accept (Alt+C) or Decline (Alt+D) the invitation?
 
  You have accepted the invitation to start Quarto.
 
F  says:
don't know what this is
Az  says:
I think it's like
Az  says:
where we pour milk on the stomach alien from total recall
Dren
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2419


Reply #69 on: October 06, 2008, 02:16:41 PM

I was talking about arena points being easy even when you're counting on losing every match.  At that point friends or people you can run on a consistent basis with are irrelevant.  Just get a team made, and then do it every week on your own if you have to.  Still get the losing points even if you ran 10 fights solo.

Um, as said, you do need a good score to get the best items.  I can get the "sorta good" stuff with BG points and marks regardless.  This "plan" of yours doesn't make any sense.  Plus, who the hell would do that in a game?  That has got to be the most unfun thing I've ever read.

Also, your points received per week are dependent on your score.  The lower the score, the less you earn per week.  It will take you forever and a day to get any balance worth anything using your technique.  I'm guessing you'd get maybe 150 points per week.  Maybe others have a better estimate.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  World of Warcraft  |  Topic: WotLK to wipe honor and marks  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC