Jumpgate Evolution :: Spaceships Types Revealed! (Now with more screen shots)

[Lantyssa]

From that vid. all I see is the nost of the craft pointed every which way and just shooting what's on the nose.  Speaking of which, there's nothing even remotely natural about the movement of those craft... not even slightly.

Newtonian is an option.  Did they even use it?  (I only watched one, and they didn't in it.)  Most people aren't going to fly using the Newtonian model.

[Zzulo]

Fun part is that the combat in EVE is even less fun to watch than this

[Ghambit]

From that vid. all I see is the nost of the craft pointed every which way and just shooting what's on the nose.  Speaking of which, there's nothing even remotely natural about the movement of those craft... not even slightly.

Newtonian is an option.  Did they even use it?  (I only watched one, and they didn't in it.)  Most people aren't going to fly using the Newtonian model.

I was hoping the newtonian option was simply unassisted flight controls.  Regardless, the ship's flight model shouldnt violate common sense, newtonian or not. 
Since it does to this degree, I dont blame people for not wanting to use newtonian or even a jstick... there's no need, and they'd be gimped.
Same thing happened with AutoAssault.

I'd almost be inclined to say that being a newb in JGE seems easier than being a newb in WoW (or even EnB) by far.  And that to me doesnt bode well.  WoW, for all its "easiness" was still something many people had to strive to grasp and go even further to master... JGE doesnt seem that way to me at all, it's just different degrees of the same pew pew pew.  It needs to be more difficult (or at least more difficult LOOKING).  It's like they took Freespace and Independence War, lowered their pants, and took a giant dump on those ideals.

Matter of fact, didnt they say they were using the same flight model from the original Jumpgate?  I hope that's a joke.

[Ratman_tf]

To get on a soap box of mine, notice that both of those IPs are hugely main stream, so I don’t want to hear about how science fiction games are hard-core or niche products. It’s not the case at all. I believe that Jumpgate could be a mass appeal game and that is exactly what we are trying to do.

I don't think "mainstream" means what he thinks it means.
Do we have another self-proclaimed WoW killer?

That's like, not what he was saying, at all.

Then what the fuck was he saying?

That he thinks the genre of si-fi can compete with fantasy, in this space.

This I can agree with.

You took it to the extreme "Wow killer" is not what he said at all.

No, I just asked a question. Half-jokingly because I wasn't sure if he was talking MMOG mass appeal, or Spice Girls mass appeal.

If you look at how well traditional Si-fi mmos fair you would see the huge gap before the line of "mass appeal" is reached, there is also another huge gap before the line of "Wow". Traditionally, si-fi is niche in this platform, extremely so. I also believe he was referring to the ability to appeal to a larger audience than simply the si-fi nerds, though the use of the focus of accessibility they have been keyed on from day one of this project.

And again I'm wondering how a space pew pew game is supposed to appeal to an audience beyond sci-fi gamers... 

[Ghambit]

I wouldnt even deem to call "space pew pew" science fiction.

[Malakili]

I wouldnt even deem to call "space pew pew" science fiction.

I would wager to say that most people would see spaceships + lasers and think "sci fi" right away for setting.  Whether or not that is REALLY an accurate term, is besides the point.

[Draegan]

I was hoping the newtonian option was simply unassisted flight controls.  Regardless, the ship's flight model shouldnt violate common sense, newtonian or not. 
Since it does to this degree, I dont blame people for not wanting to use newtonian or even a jstick... there's no need, and they'd be gimped.
Same thing happened with AutoAssault.

I'd almost be inclined to say that being a newb in JGE seems easier than being a newb in WoW (or even EnB) by far.  And that to me doesnt bode well.  WoW, for all its "easiness" was still something many people had to strive to grasp and go even further to master... JGE doesnt seem that way to me at all, it's just different degrees of the same pew pew pew.  It needs to be more difficult (or at least more difficult LOOKING).  It's like they took Freespace and Independence War, lowered their pants, and took a giant dump on those ideals.

Matter of fact, didnt they say they were using the same flight model from the original Jumpgate?  I hope that's a joke.

I really think Ghambit is looking at this from a perspective of someone who's drowning in science fiction lore from many different sources, has played every good sci-fi video game no matter what difficulty it is, mastered it and now looks at the demos from JGE and say, "It look's too simple!"

I don't know what you're getting at.  The game is arcade type space game. 

Whats the point of being a newb and it's easier in JGE than WOW?  How do you even know that?  Have you even played the game?  Why is that a bad thing anyway?

How can it become more difficult to you?  Why should it be more difficult?  According to the interview there are a myriad of weapons, scanners, radars etc etc available for your ship.  Is that what you mean?

Or do you mean you want it difficult as shit when flying it so noobs keep crashing into the space station to dock and then everyone quits because it's irritating as hell?

Also how is the flight violate common sense?

--

You're speculating on so much.  I actually played the game.  Feels good and plays well.   And the sound didn't sound as horrendous as it did in those videos. 

I really don't know what you want from the game.  And space ships + lasers = sci fi.


Also Rat:
When he's talking about mainstream I'm pretty sure he talking about the MMOG genre.

[Ghambit]

Okay Draegan, you seem pretty hell-bent on this one so I will live by your judgement for now,   although "feels good and plays well" isnt quite enough to make a good MMO.  If you think it's a worthy title (and you've put some time into the game) I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Maybe I wouldnt be so afraid if I just saw more... I dunno

[Draegan]

I just want you to answer my questions because I'm not sure what you're getting at.  I might even agree with you.

[Lantyssa]

I'm not sure he can.  He really seems to want to find a reason to hate it to convince himself he doesn't want to like it because he's afraid he might enjoy it.  I haven't been able to make any sense of it.

Don't fret so much about it, dude.  Let it come out, give it a try, and decide if it's for you at that point.

[tmp]

although "feels good and plays well" isnt quite enough to make a good MMO.

I wish the industry managed to get at least this part down, first. Aside from oddball here and there still kinda waiting for it (which makes it difficult to verify that claim MMO needs more than that)

[fuser]

Devchat transcript

But here's the questions/answers spoilered so its not a complete wall of text unless you clicky.

[Morfiend]

although "feels good and plays well" isnt quite enough to make a good MMO.

I really think you need to tell that to Blizzard. Thats pretty much the basis of their 11.5 mil subs.

[veredus]

"With regard to the balance: the advantage of having three nations is that if one group gets too powerful, the other two tend to gang up on them. Of course it is possible that we'll see something like, the Octavians dominate PvP because there's a hundred Octavians, ten Quantar, and ten Solrain. I doubt that'll happen, but it is possible. Then we'll have to do stuff like put mechanics in place to cap the number of people or make sure it's balanced. We have right now AI in one of the PvP maps to work with and against the players, although I don't find that to be an ideal solution. I'm hoping it works out that the sides balance against each other because of the three sided combat. Hopefully there won't be a massive skewing, where eighty percent of a server is Solrain, or something like that. Of course, that can happen, and then we'll have to figure out good game mechanics to take care of that. I expect if one side is dominant, then the other two will work to beat them simply because they want to see the big guy fall."

They really, really, REALLY need a plan B for this.

[Ghambit]

"With regard to the balance: the advantage of having three nations is that if one group gets too powerful, the other two tend to gang up on them. Of course it is possible that we'll see something like, the Octavians dominate PvP because there's a hundred Octavians, ten Quantar, and ten Solrain. I doubt that'll happen, but it is possible. Then we'll have to do stuff like put mechanics in place to cap the number of people or make sure it's balanced. We have right now AI in one of the PvP maps to work with and against the players, although I don't find that to be an ideal solution. I'm hoping it works out that the sides balance against each other because of the three sided combat. Hopefully there won't be a massive skewing, where eighty percent of a server is Solrain, or something like that. Of course, that can happen, and then we'll have to figure out good game mechanics to take care of that. I expect if one side is dominant, then the other two will work to beat them simply because they want to see the big guy fall."

They really, really, REALLY need a plan B for this.

Plan B is that they shouldnt have had factions to begin with.  Or at least, factions shouldnt be tied to any form of loyalty.
Factional warfare is what you implement when you're too lazy to give the players a real reason to fight.  I'd rather fight over resources, space, stations, and quest locations.  Just killing someone because he's Octavian doesnt appeal to me.

[Draegan]

You are so being that guy shitting on my parade and pissing in my Cheerios on purpose.

[DLRiley]

Veredus your underestimated the mentality of your players base. Sure at first they will probably gang up on the larger side, but eventually someone will get the smart idea to stop competing with each other and let the weaker of the three to be the whipping boy.

[UnSub]

"With regard to the balance: the advantage of having three nations is that if one group gets too powerful, the other two tend to gang up on them. Of course it is possible that we'll see something like, the Octavians dominate PvP because there's a hundred Octavians, ten Quantar, and ten Solrain. I doubt that'll happen, but it is possible. Then we'll have to do stuff like put mechanics in place to cap the number of people or make sure it's balanced. We have right now AI in one of the PvP maps to work with and against the players, although I don't find that to be an ideal solution. I'm hoping it works out that the sides balance against each other because of the three sided combat. Hopefully there won't be a massive skewing, where eighty percent of a server is Solrain, or something like that. Of course, that can happen, and then we'll have to figure out good game mechanics to take care of that. I expect if one side is dominant, then the other two will work to beat them simply because they want to see the big guy fall."

They really, really, REALLY need a plan B for this.

Plan B is that they shouldnt have had factions to begin with.  Or at least, factions shouldnt be tied to any form of loyalty.
Factional warfare is what you implement when you're too lazy to give the players a real reason to fight.  I'd rather fight over resources, space, stations, and quest locations.  Just killing someone because he's Octavian doesnt appeal to me.

The huge flaw is "the advantage of having three nations is that if one group gets too powerful, the other two tend to gang up on them" is that there are several examples of titles where this didn't happen, especially when the majority flocks to the winning side.

I agree that not having hardcoded sides would seem like a better idea - let the players pick. It then becomes user generated content. PvE mobs to help the underdog can also help, but they'll be exploited where possible.

[Ghambit]

You are so being that guy shitting on my parade and pissing in my Cheerios on purpose.

I sowieee 
Really doh, which type of pvp would you rather have?  I like fighting over tangible elements.
Granted, some factional systems are pretty good when done with enough depth.  But a simple 3-person game of Risk isnt really gonna cut the bacon unless there's a nice political system inserted into the game.
JGE isnt really a pvp-oriented game anyways though is it?  So it kinda doesnt matter.  I'd rather just have them release the game already and worry about pvp later.

I wanna shoot rox 'n stuff.  With a laser. 

[Mrbloodworth]

"With regard to the balance: the advantage of having three nations is that if one group gets too powerful, the other two tend to gang up on them. Of course it is possible that we'll see something like, the Octavians dominate PvP because there's a hundred Octavians, ten Quantar, and ten Solrain. I doubt that'll happen, but it is possible. Then we'll have to do stuff like put mechanics in place to cap the number of people or make sure it's balanced. We have right now AI in one of the PvP maps to work with and against the players, although I don't find that to be an ideal solution. I'm hoping it works out that the sides balance against each other because of the three sided combat. Hopefully there won't be a massive skewing, where eighty percent of a server is Solrain, or something like that. Of course, that can happen, and then we'll have to figure out good game mechanics to take care of that. I expect if one side is dominant, then the other two will work to beat them simply because they want to see the big guy fall."

They really, really, REALLY need a plan B for this.

Plan B is that they shouldnt have had factions to begin with.  Or at least, factions shouldnt be tied to any form of loyalty.
Factional warfare is what you implement when you're too lazy to give the players a real reason to fight.  I'd rather fight over resources, space, stations, and quest locations.  Just killing someone because he's Octavian doesnt appeal to me.

Dude?

Also, about flight......

Dampeners increase the magnitude of the Drag Force on a ship. New to JGE.

    * Dampeners can be turned on and off on the fly
          o The default on/off key for dampeners is F12
    * Hermann Peterscheck invented the concept
          o Hermann's position was the JGE flight should be less “Newtonian” and more “Freelancer-ish”.
          o Members of his development team felt strongly that flight should remain Newtonian thus dampeners were added as a compromise.
          o Now that he knows how to fly, Even Hermann deactivates dampeners in combat.
    * The Dampener is a flight-assist tool. Motion in any direction other then the current direction of thrust is quickly damped out.
          o A common JGC veteran perception is that Dampeners make Jumpgate Flight feel more "arcade" and less "flight-sim".
          o Testers have said they are especially useful when starting out because they allow you to learn the game instead of learning how to fly; the latter can be a frustrating experience to rookies.
    * They are additional drag in the equation as opposed to an inverse thrust. Dampeners work as a thick atmosphere would, in terms of flight physics.
    * More recently flying without dampeners has been made more akin to the original JGC DANCER engine in feel.

JGE isnt really a pvp-oriented game anyways though is it?  So it kinda doesnt matter.  I'd rather just have them release the game already and worry about pvp later.

Bro....

So it's much harder to design something for PvP. We design for PvP first, then we bring it over into PvE.

[Ghambit]

k
 

[Draegan]

There's a transcript up from the dev chat a few days ago.

Here's what I found interesting:  (oh and beta in 2 weeks?)

23rd Question: So there are a lot of opinionated veterans who aren’t too flattered with the idea of two separate flight systems like the classic JGC system and the new “damper” system. Couldn’t a more advanced player alternate between the two systems in combat which would further deeper the combat, and have the developers looked at it this way?

Answer: Right now the way the dampening works is it is an “on the fly” thing. You hit a key and you turn them on or off. We’ve seen a lot of feedback that when you turn the dampeners off it doesn’t go enough in the direction of “gliding” if you will, getting rid of friction almost completely. So it’s likely that when you turn dampeners off it will be even more sort of Newtonian physics if you will, without any kind of resistance. It’s not really that there are two flight models, it’s more like there’s one system where you sacrifice flexibility for control if that makes sense. So if you let go of everything your ship will stop faster, for example, but as a result of that you can’t do things (which I like to do) like fly in a straight line, turn around, and fly backwards while you’re shooting at things. The genesis was the control issue. If you put someone in a Newtonian flight system without any resistance most people can’t fly that. They get really frustrated and they give up and go away, but if you let them fly in a way that’s kind of with training wheels for a while what happens is when they get comfortable with it they tend to move towards the mode that’s more open and you can have that full three dimensional motion. So by having both of those options we can satisfy the one group that wants to fly that way right off the bat, but we don’t alienate the people who find it very very hard and we let them graduate into it.

[Mrbloodworth]

First Look Preview

[Draegan]

I read that this morning, nothing really new there.

[Mrbloodworth]

I read that this morning, nothing really new there.

Yes, but it was from the perspective of someone who had played it, so i felt it was worthy.

[DLRiley]

Seems like another attempt to sell a combat system. Hopefully this gimmick is big enough to actually overshadow 99% of the problems I see speeding down the ramp toward this game.

[Draegan]

Do you exist only to troll?

[Cadaverine]

 

Gimme!

[Draegan]

Not really news but box art:

Jumpgate Evolution Special Edition Contains:

    * 2 in game items - Stella Ensign (+2% Nation XP bonus for every mission completed) - Stella Citation (+2% XP bonus for every kill)
    * Galactic Map
    * Exclusive Artbook
    * 5 buddy postcards (7 day trial for each buddy)
    * Quick start guide
    * Official Jumpgate Soundtrack
    * 45 days free game time

Jumpgate Evolution is a definitive action-based Massively Multiplayer Online game set in a glorious, yet fierce new universe where the sheer vastness of space is your ultimate playground.

Jumpgate Evolution brings together popular elements from all time classics such as Elite, X-wing Vs Tie-fighter and Privateer and combines them in a living, breathing persistent world. Gone are the days of point and click combat, Jumpgate Evolution puts the action at your fingertips with fully responsive reflex based controls like never seen in any previous massively multiplayer online game (MMOG).

Choosing from one of three Nations, each with sub-factions fighting for influence, players engross themselves in a visually striking universe where only the strongest survive the game’s expansive battles for military and trading supremacy.

The result is a slick space combat game that is deep and rewarding for experienced MMO players yet accessible for new players. With a galaxy of conflict and riches to dominate, Jumpgate Evolution is a simply exhilarating space combat on a vast scale.

Jumpgate Evolution on PC Features:

    * Immense Online Battles - Enter a dynamic universe and fight alongside or against thousands of players in immense online battles.
    * Elite Space Combat - Adrenaline-fuelled, action space combat set within an immense persistent universe.
    * Player Advancement – Answer your calling as you advance your online career through endless content, ships and weaponry.
    * Massive Space Conflict – Use cunning military tactics as you and your squadron destroy enormous space stations and devastating capital ships.
    * Highly Accessible - Incredibly scaleable game engine allows Jumpgate to be fully playable, even on older PCs.

[FatuousTwat]

Hmm... They don't mention the price? Because it might actually be worth it for the extra 15 days.

[Draegan]

http://www.game.co.uk/PC/RolePlaying/MassivelyMultiplayer/~r340764/Jumpgate-Special-Edition/

[Lantyssa]

What's the average price for a game in pounds?

[Hindenburg]

That's the equivalent of a US$ 60,00 edition, no?

So, 10 bucks for an extra 15 days and leveling 1/50 faster. Doesn't sound that bad.

[UnSub]

They have been running a beta, right? That's not just something they are going to start next week or something...

[fuser]

They have been running a beta, right? That's not just something they are going to start next week or something...

Theres a friends and family running right now. The closed is "soon".