Class Choice Discussion (Split from Live Roll Call)

[rattran]

Archmages/Shamans have some nice heals with their nuke/heal yinyang. Runepriests may heal more consistently, but the Archmage/Shaman burst can be 

White Lions I think are less fun/effective than Witch Hunters, but with everyone and their cousin playing a WH I just thought I'd try something different. I don't expect to see many others.

[Oz]

I just pre-ordered this from Amazon so hopefully i'll be able to jump in the early start tomorrow.  so far i've got the following planned:

Ozeigi - ironbreaker
Oziam - warrior priest

[tazelbain]

Obviously there is a lot of theorycraft that needs to be done.  Tank/Heal pairs seems extremely powerful.

[Oz]

I just always liked to hold agro and/or keep people alive...Maybe i'm sick in the head.

[Nebu]

I'm not sure anyone will want to play a white lion until the pathing issues are better addressed.  Right now, pets are kind of a joke. 

So, more people from f13 playing in this group or on the Destruction side?

[Oz]

I figure i'd do both sides, and see which side gets better qeues, etc.

[tazelbain]

Need:
White Lions
Arch Mages

*: I'm not sure anyone needs Arch Mages 

If anyone is looking for suggestions:  Ironbreaker, Runepriest, Swordmasters, Archmage. No one is ever going to say they have too many of these.  Notice how there is no Empire on this list, this is why Order is screwed in the T1 Scenerios.

[Nonentity]

I figure i'd do both sides, and see which side gets better qeues, etc.

Almost every server has a population listed at 'Full' or 'High' on Destruction side, compared to 'Low' to 'High' on Order side.

Once we all level a bit more and see some of the higher level abilities pan out, we'll be able to better theorycraft some good class comps.

[squirrel]

I'll be playing - no idea what names as my main gaming PC fell down and had a seizure. Gonna take me a few days to rebuild. But should be on by weekend - will be rolling a Runepriest and a Swordmaster.

[schild]

If you posted your name and class in this thread, repost in roll call.

[Azaroth]

Is Archmage still gimped compared to Shaman? I read several times that their DPS is only 60% of its own mirror class.

Also, is it my computer or is the gameplay of this game absolutely atrocious?

I've been having some other problems with my computer lately, so I don't know. The animations, movement, responsiveness, everything seems completely unbelievable. Laggy as all fuck, too. Like, to the point where each of these issues makes the game unplayable for me.

[rk47]

Hmm from what I heard if you despise nuking while healing definitely don't pick a 'hybrid' class that actually forces utility in order to get the most of it (Warrior Priest Fury mechanic comes to mind). Archmagi sounded like one of them. Take something that is specialized in one thing, like Rune Priests , Witch Hunters, etc.

[Azaroth]

No, that's not really my problem with it. I think the concept of the class is very interesting.

If the order version is gimped compared to the destruction version, that's stupid.

[trias_e]

Is Archmage still gimped compared to Shaman? I read several times that their DPS is only 60% of its own mirror class.

People are misunderstanding things.  Archmage has an easier time raising their mechanic, more dots, and other cool things.  Yeah, in direct comparison, their damage is weaker, but overall, I've heard that the archmage is very powerful if played well.

[Mazakiel]

I started up an archmage, and I'm actually liking it more than my witch hunter.  There's a bit of a learning curve, since I haven't played a healer-type in a long time and, but it doesn't really drag at all.  The downside is probably some of the other people playing them who don't try to heal at all. 

[ffc]

About Archmages, they're fun to play.  You really feel like you're contributing healing and damage.  I've seen some videos of higher levels and they just get stronger as time goes on.

I completely ignore the "mechanic" of building up heals/damage by casting damage/heals, other than keeping in mind if I have been healing a lot then my channeled Searing Touch spell is ready to kill someone, and if I have been damaging a lot then my big heal / resurrection is ready to be cast quickly.

Here are some of my stats from beta.  I'm also including some stuff from my Runepriest for comparison.  I played the same way on both characters - heal while helping with focus fire and killing runners. 



As you can see, Archmages do more damage.  A couple times I really tried to throw out damage as my Runepriest and it just can't compare to the Archmage's damage. 

However, there are three negatives for the Archmage.  One is a personal spec preference, and the other two deal with being able to survive.

First, they have to pick to specialize in heals or damage or debuffs.  Runepriests boost damage and heals in each tree, which is a personal preference.  Second, Archmages have two damage spells (Searing Touch and whatever the laser-eye-beam spell is) that announce to the world where your position is, and occasionally the Searing Touch spell effect gets stuck and you are left running around with a giant white light running from your hand to the Black Orc you just killed.  Runepriests don't have any effects like that.  Third, in practice I found the Runepriest to be more survivable and a better flash healer due to its instant cast direct heals as well as its shield spell.  When a Witch Elf would jump my Archmage, I would turn to dust.  My Runepriest would live long enough to get help.

In the end, both heal great.  It comes down to doing more damage while alive (Archmage) or being able to better survive under attack (Runepriest). 

[Ingmar]

Runepriests do have an equivalent to Searing Touch called Rune of Burning, but they have to spec to get it.

[ffc]

Rune of Burning and Rune of Fate (like Archmage Transfer Force) would make a Archmageish damage build (edit: all while buffing up core healing spells) and still leave points for a Master Rune or a 10 pt Rune.  Definitely the way I would go with a Runepriest.

[Kail]

So, I wasn't in the beta or the early start or whatever, hopefully I'll have my box tomorrow, so I was wondering a few things:

First of all, any classes the guild really needs?  It's not really obvious to me what the ideal ratio of tanks/dps/healers should be.  Just about all the classes sound interesting to me; I'm just wondering if there's anything we really need more of, or other classes we're stocked full of.

Second, wondering about DPS ratios.  I'm hearing things about a few classes that seem interesting to me that their DPS is bleh.  Specifically, Archmages (apparently far better at healing than DPSing?), Engineers ("They never die, but they don't top the DPS charts either" sounds like "they stand in the back and do nothing"), and White Lions (pathfinding issues means no DPS).  Can anyone confirm or deny?

Also, as a random aside:  Bright wizards.  Insanely OP, I hear, yes?  Might be fun to play, but every pic I've seen of them has had this ludicrous "fiery" hair... is that, like, a "this is how they all look" kind of thing, or can they look normal, too?

[rk47]

you can make them look normal easily.

[squirrel]

Yeah my BW alt is bald, with glowing eyes and tattoos. It's pretty cool actually.

[tazelbain]

Ironbreaker, Runepriest, Swordmasters, Archmage.  DPS is ineffective againt tanks guarding healer chains. Order is mostly DPS on our server and we are getting WTFPWNed.

[rk47]

It's probably because they can't get the cosmetics right for the tanks. I mean, dwarves are ugly and brutish but they're kinda small sized.
Elves are too feminine looking so it's no surprise destruction is overflowing with Chosen with Death Knight armours and Big Ugly Black Orcs.

Conclusion: tank pop wouldn't be an issue if there is a Human Knight for Empire. But there isn't. That's why Order beginners would get raped hard at the early Scenarios by Chosens.

[Merusk]

I'd agree with that assessment.  I feel incredibly silly playing as my elf, but I knew I didn't want to do a Melee healer and, well, fuck a dwarf. I'm not a fan of the race in any MMO.  They're just chubby Gnomes, and gnomes are fuckers. 

Back to Archmages for a second.  Oh god the aggro.  Found an ironbreaker running through one of the PQs last night and latched on to him.  Healing and DPS = uberaggro, I think I tanked more of it than he did.  I just plain stopped DPSing and kept casting my aggro debuff on the Hero at the end because I knew I was going to die otherwise. 

Archmages: Fun for PvP... watch your ass in PvE.

Oh.. they also get a "Moral Strike" type skill in their debuff talents.  50% less healing on a target plus damage? Oh, I so know where I'm headed.

[squirrel]

It's probably because they can't get the cosmetics right for the tanks. I mean, dwarves are ugly and brutish but they're kinda small sized.
Elves are too feminine looking so it's no surprise destruction is overflowing with Chosen with Death Knight armours and Big Ugly Black Orcs.

Conclusion: tank pop wouldn't be an issue if there is a Human Knight for Empire. But there isn't. That's why Order beginners would get raped hard at the early Scenarios by Chosens.

Yeah as soon as I could I moved over to Order lands to play the T1 scenario as I knew there'd be lots of people willing to back up a tank. Turns out that was correct, and since there's BW's there the scenarios go faster than the stuntie T1 which seemed to drag on forever due to a lack of DPS. (Also an elf, but i hate the elf lands so I left at level 1).

[rk47]

I really hate tank classes till level 10, that's when they start to shine. I mean there's nothing more satisfying than tapping Hold the Line and let those idiotic ranged classes trying to pew pew me at 45% miss rate while the BW and Ranged Support behind me are pelting them with spells. I can even block poison ticks with my shield (lol mythic)

[squirrel]

I really hate tank classes till level 10, that's when they start to shine. I mean there's nothing more satisfying than tapping Hold the Line and let those idiotic ranged classes trying to pew pew me at 45% miss rate while the BW and Ranged Support behind me are pelting them with spells. I can even block poison ticks with my shield (lol mythic)

Yeah blocking DoT's with a shield is funny. I can also parry DoT's/Poison. Especially if i pop my +15% parry ability, I was parrying shaman and sorc dot's. I doubt that will stay as is for long.

[Oz]

Order is mostly is mostly DPS on our server and we are getting WTFPWNed.

yeah i noticed this last night.  Very discouraging.  almost made me stop playing my warrior priest to play something else...

[tazelbain]

And that makes it all the more important that we queue up with solid teams

[Hawkbit]

Order is mostly is mostly DPS on our server and we are getting WTFPWNed.

yeah i noticed this last night.  Very discouraging.  almost made me stop playing my warrior priest to play something else...

Nothings worse than being the only swordmaster and three archmages in a scenario pug and not getting one fucking heal while trying to defend.  If you can heal, fucking heal already. 

[Oz]

yeah, i had the problem last night of "what do i do?"  I tried sitting back and healing, then realized we had 0 tanks, but 4+ WP, so i said ok, fine i'll tank/melee someone heal me while i heal myself also...but nope.  on my own.   I hate pugs.

I can't melee and heal myself against 2 BO, 1 chosen, and 3 marauders...just can't.

[Mazakiel]

It's becoming very common to have healers not heal.  Though really, it seems to be limited more to archmages, since I always see them pew pewing random things while I'm getting swarmed.  Even just one healer on a tank can make a huge difference.  It's a lesson that the chaos players seemed to have grasped a lot better. 

[Nebu]

I plan to roll a healer this weekend and will be playing a ton.  If you'd prefer an archmage or a runepriest, let me know.  I played both quite a bit in beta. 

Yes, I know how to heal on a healing class. 

[Kirth]

Warrior Priest. 

[Baldric]

Quick question, is the ironbreaker fun and do we have too many?  The swordmaster balance mechanic was getting on my nerves last night.  

I have been playing a swordmaster and bright wizard, but deep down I am a melee guy at heart.  I suppose I could try a warrior-priest as well, but I played a cleric in an EQ raiding guild, so I really have no desire to play a healer ever again.