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Author Topic: The Elder Scrolls Online  (Read 755849 times)
Merusk
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Reply #1085 on: March 20, 2013, 09:44:04 AM

A page of font discussion over a preview article.

This game has legs, I tell you!


Another laughable moment from the article.  The writer's, "I was playing the way *I* wanted to play. Nobody told me I had to do xyz." section.  It was so naive.  You're right nobody's said, "you must use this skill or you suck." or "Why the hell did you pick that, use this instead."  It's a preview of an unfinished game and you're solo.

Nobody forces you to pick certain talents or pieces of equipment in MMOs, either. It's just understood that you're terribad if you don't.  It's as if the writer's never played an MMO.

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Reply #1086 on: March 20, 2013, 11:29:23 AM

Interesting. Looks fine in IE 9, but both Opera and Chrome have the same issue with the font. Curiouser and curiouser.

IE's font renderer is shit. Chrome should usually have better looking fonts unless they are trying to use some weird webfont. Also, Helvetica for body copy makes Baby Jesus stabby.

Hawkbit
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Reply #1087 on: March 20, 2013, 01:41:44 PM



Nobody forces you to pick certain talents or pieces of equipment in MMOs, either. It's just understood that you're terribad if you don't.  It's as if the writer's never played an MMO.

But.. but.. but this one will be balanced, we swear!
Nonentity
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Reply #1088 on: March 20, 2013, 05:06:38 PM

Yeah, that font thing is really weird.

IE10 on top, Chrome on bottom


Just checked and ClearType is set to on already in Win7.

As far as the game is concerned, I really could care two shits about Elder Scrolls as a franchise, I just want them to make their single-player games playable in a small-scale co-op fashion (2-4 people). I don't need an MMO.

But that Captain's salami tray was tight, yo. You plump for the roast pork loin, dogg?

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Reply #1089 on: March 20, 2013, 07:14:07 PM

Nobody forces you to pick certain talents or pieces of equipment in MMOs, either.

Especially not during a press demonstration of an alpha build area.

Malakili
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Reply #1090 on: March 20, 2013, 07:24:43 PM



Another laughable moment from the article.  The writer's, "I was playing the way *I* wanted to play. Nobody told me I had to do xyz." section.  It was so naive.  You're right nobody's said, "you must use this skill or you suck." or "Why the hell did you pick that, use this instead."  It's a preview of an unfinished game and you're solo.


I talked to someone who got to play at a press event and they said the same thing.  I said, well, if that is the case, then great, but I've heard that literally more times than I can remember at this point, and it never really pans out that way in reality.

Bottom line is, at this point my default opinion about any MMORPG is that it will suck.  If the game comes out and people like it for more than 2-3 months on a large scale, maybe I'll try though.   
Draegan
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Reply #1091 on: March 21, 2013, 06:49:02 AM


Another laughable moment from the article.  The writer's, "I was playing the way *I* wanted to play. Nobody told me I had to do xyz." section.  It was so naive.  You're right nobody's said, "you must use this skill or you suck." or "Why the hell did you pick that, use this instead."  It's a preview of an unfinished game and you're solo.

Nobody forces you to pick certain talents or pieces of equipment in MMOs, either. It's just understood that you're terribad if you don't.  It's as if the writer's never played an MMO.

Heh I was saying the same thing.  "orly? You picked a melee defensive ability because you are melee? Good for you.  What? That will be a shit build once you group with people? Of Course! That's how MMOs work."
Stokowski
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Reply #1092 on: March 21, 2013, 07:54:45 AM

"... Stros M'kai, a small island not far from the city of Daggerfall"

 ACK!
koro
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Reply #1093 on: March 21, 2013, 10:16:06 AM

Yeah, that kind of confused me a bit. You know, since it's not anywhere near Daggerfall (or even High Rock in general) at all.

Surely they haven't moved the thing.

... right?
Lantyssa
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Reply #1094 on: March 21, 2013, 11:16:17 AM

What's a map of the Elder Scrolls' world have to do with this game?

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #1095 on: March 21, 2013, 11:51:45 AM

It's an island so it just floated away as the centuries passed.

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Ingmar
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Reply #1096 on: March 21, 2013, 12:16:40 PM

It's in the province adjacent to High Rock. I understand the desire to find things wrong with this game, but that's getting awfully nitpicky.

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koro
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Reply #1097 on: March 21, 2013, 03:09:01 PM

I'm not even complaining about the game, I'm just slightly baffled at the previewer.
Phred
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Reply #1098 on: March 22, 2013, 12:41:46 AM

It's Helvetica, which is much better for signs and banners than it is text. 

Calibri is the most used 'business type' font right now - reads like butter, but is fairly dry looking.

Could be either actually. From the page's style sheet.

body {
    font-family: "PAR",Helvetica,Arial,Verdana,sans-serif;
    font-size: 14px;
    color: rgb(44, 44, 44);
}
Hawkbit
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Reply #1099 on: March 22, 2013, 08:04:15 AM

I realized that about 1 second after I posted but never corrected myself.

Odd question though:  What's "PAR"?  I've never run across that yet.  I tried to match it up in the source but couldn't find it.
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Reply #1100 on: March 22, 2013, 08:23:59 AM

Guys, guys. You can force fonts and smoothing inside of Chrome.
Miasma
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Reply #1101 on: March 22, 2013, 08:44:15 AM

I realized that about 1 second after I posted but never corrected myself.

Odd question though:  What's "PAR"?  I've never run across that yet.  I tried to match it up in the source but couldn't find it.
As I said earlier it is a shitty webfont, probably custom made, I assume it is an acronym with the first two letters standing for penny arcade.
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #1102 on: March 22, 2013, 11:47:30 AM

Penny Arcade Report, it's a sister site to the web comic in an attempt to be gaming journalists.  I do not believe Gabe or Tycho actually have much to do with PAR at all but the news is semi-decent.

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Venkman
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Reply #1103 on: March 22, 2013, 06:44:16 PM

Yea I kinda like their style.

Waited on line for an hour to play 20 minutes of ESO at PAX East. It wasn't terrible, for the obviously-early playable demo that it was. But neither was it Skyrim. Kind of a blend of DDO and GW2 for me. There's an action-y element to it, even with the limited abilities they granted ya (they offered pre-rolled level 6 characters but you got to choose your skills, which were most, but not all, of those available). The characters were bigger on screen than in GW2. I didn't see the first person mode the earlier PAR reviewer saw. That alone would change the feel (duh).

Kinda looking sorta-maybe similar to Skyrim in models, but it didn't have that polish. Which I can forgive given how early it is. I can see where they're headed graphically. While I don't expect super-modded-out Skyrim nor even Tomb Raider, it's not going to be ugly. And in fact, it'll be a lot less brown than stock Skyrim.

The demo reels on the TVs were all about the demo. They spent a good amount of time tutoring you while you stood on line. We all got a nice group chuckle out of "WASD is for movement, left click is for soft attack". Marvel Universe Online at least changes that. But then, it only changes it to make it like Diablo 3  awesome, for real

ESO pre-pre-Alpha didn't suck. But it wasn't anything new either.

I will say though, the cinematic is pretty cool (old video from January). That was the first time I was arsed to watch it all the way through. Some day month year we'll play games at that resolution.
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Reply #1104 on: March 22, 2013, 07:26:51 PM

What was the actiony element? Can you elaborate?

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Venkman
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Reply #1105 on: March 23, 2013, 08:34:15 AM

Positioning didn't seem to matter, but there was a lot of movement to move in or out of range. I was playing Sorcerer, and while it did have the ES-like "block", I still didn't want to get hit. Move in, move out, roll to dodge, very responsive keys. Wasn't as frenetic as GW2, but then my character was only level 6, and I spent the whole session on an investigation mission in Daggerfall.

It all works well in the third person as you'd expect. Which makes me wonder how well first person will work.

One nice thing I just remembered: very clean UI. You didn't see anything you didn't need to see in that context. Only see the HP bar when getting it, only see the mana bar when using magic, etc. Like Skyrim. Maybe a little thing, but it was nice to not have the casino-level-of-noisy UI that is WoW, or the distractingly-colorful UI of GW2. If you came straight from Skyrim, you'll feel at home. Except for the chat box, which was populated the entire time by NPC chatter. If I pick this up at launch, I'll be turning off the chat altogether. Map was also useful, definitely inspired much by "go to dot/highlighted area" of WoW/Aion/etc.

One annoying that I just remembered: the pitch. Jeezus people, how long has it been since we literally did stand in one spot and hit the auto attack key? That hasn't been a point of differentiation for a new MMO for 10 years.

One thing I laughed out loud at: someone asked about crafting. With great effusiveness they described how awesome it would be, without saying how it would work. I also overheard a "not for launch we wanted to focus on polish" answer to a question I assumed was about housing.

Overall there's definitely an ES feel here. As much as I too would just like small co-op Skyrim, I don't think they're shitting on the memory of Skyrim with this game. It won't be for the hardcore Skyrim modder getting into wiki arguments on story points. But then, MMOs haven't been for that group since ever, delusion marketing notwithstanding.
blackwulf
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Reply #1106 on: March 23, 2013, 10:37:59 AM

Darniaq, thanks for the unbiased review.  I know you only had a few minutes with the game, but it sounds like there's at least as much good as bad in your first impression.  I hope 6 more months or so will provide enough time for them to polish it into something that will impress.  I'm excited for the game mainly because of what I've heard in the last week about character progression.  Seems we'll get to pick our build from hundreds of skills, and some of those skills are from trees where you choose a branch, and you even get a skill tree based on your starting race.  In other words, it's unlikely you'll ever have a character just like the person you are grouped with or fighting.  This is important to me.
Hawkbit
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Reply #1107 on: March 23, 2013, 11:31:37 AM

Consider that housing is one of the more engaging parts of Skyrim, and I think launching without is a mistake.  It doesn't need to be as verbose as Hearthfire, but the player should be able to purchase a house in the major cities at least. 
Venkman
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Reply #1108 on: March 23, 2013, 01:51:03 PM

To reiterate, I only assume the discussion was about housing. And that assumption was based on a Game Informer article confirming the same. But I could be wrong about what I heard. He coulda been asking about music smiley

I don't know that lack of housing is to ESO that space combat was to SWG per se. But it does seem an example of deprioritizing a core element of the IP in favor of the medium shift. No MMO since UO has lived or died by its housing. Even Blizzard only gave it the occasional passing mention. Housing is not synonymous with success.

But it's a shame anyway.

blackwulf: as to branching skills, I hope so. It didn't come out in the demo but I was a young character and the system didn't seem complete.
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Reply #1109 on: March 23, 2013, 02:07:08 PM

One annoying that I just remembered: the pitch. Jeezus people, how long has it been since we literally did stand in one spot and hit the auto attack key? That hasn't been a point of differentiation for a new MMO for 10 years.

Would you care to elaborate a bit more on this? I am not sure I understand what you mean, and this seems to be about an aspect that matters a lot to me.

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Reply #1110 on: March 23, 2013, 03:57:59 PM

I think he's saying they used, "No standing there just auto-attacking!" in the 'pitch' (market hype) speech prior to the demo.

Which if true is just sad, for at least the reason he points out.  That model hasn't been standard since 2002.

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Venkman
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Reply #1111 on: March 23, 2013, 06:10:26 PM

That's it exactly. There were a litany of lte 2000s-era pitches they'd use over and over. All variations of "Never fight for loot", "never fight for your chance at a boss", "no more trains to zone", and "don't just hit autoattack and watch".

Eventually they all fell out of use when even the most vacuous hired PR temp realized the audience was passively mocking their assertion that those things were still selling points.

But somehow "don't just hit autoattack and watch" is still being used. Like we're all skill-uping our 7xGM in the Yew graveyard or our 1H in HHP or something else we haven't done in a decade.

tl;dr: nobody is just hitting autoattack and watching anymore. ESO doesn't have it. But that's just being something built after 2003. They're out of date for pitching that as an improvement.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 06:12:02 PM by Darniaq »
Venkman
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Reply #1112 on: March 23, 2013, 07:28:06 PM

Just saw this article at gameindustry.biz. Key:

Quote
"We're in beta right now, we're almost feature complete...

I'll just say I hope what they had at PAX was nothing more than a scripted slice, because near feature-complete Beta it most certainly was not.
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Reply #1113 on: March 23, 2013, 07:44:50 PM

Does it HAVE autoattack though? Or are you actively swinging and shit?

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Phred
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Reply #1114 on: March 23, 2013, 09:20:00 PM

Does it HAVE autoattack though? Or are you actively swinging and shit?

Is anyone else getting a little tired of having to spam mouse clicks being a feature?

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Reply #1115 on: March 23, 2013, 09:22:06 PM

Is the alternative tab target auto attack? Then no.

If it's something else, sure we can try that. I just don't want to keep doing tab targetting and auto swing.

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Nebu
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Reply #1116 on: March 23, 2013, 11:08:57 PM

Is anyone else getting a little tired of having to spam mouse clicks being a feature?

I hate it, but the Diablo crowd seems to love it.  I'd much rather mouse move and spam abilities on my keyboard. 

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Reply #1117 on: March 23, 2013, 11:14:35 PM

Is anyone else getting a little tired of having to spam mouse clicks being a feature?
I hate it, but the Diablo crowd seems to love it.  I'd much rather mouse move and spam abilities on my keyboard. 
Neither here nor there, but we don't want it in things that aren't Diablo or a game seated firmly in the niche genre of isometric loot-driven action RPGs.
Venkman
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Reply #1118 on: March 24, 2013, 08:10:42 AM

Does it HAVE autoattack though? Or are you actively swinging and shit?
Not that I could see. Left click to use your soft attack, right click for block, Q and R for quickslot items (health in Q, my R was empty but presumably that's for a stamina or mana potion), number keys for abilities.

It wasn't as spammy as MUO (or D3). I'm fine with it though because the only time spammy-clicking annoys me is when the game also uses ground targeting for movement (ie, all isometric loot games). But that's just a minor annoyance quickly overcome when the loots dropping in those appropriate experiences.
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Reply #1119 on: March 24, 2013, 10:06:45 AM

Does it HAVE autoattack though? Or are you actively swinging and shit?
Not that I could see. Left click to use your soft attack, right click for block, Q and R for quickslot items (health in Q, my R was empty but presumably that's for a stamina or mana potion), number keys for abilities.

It wasn't as spammy as MUO (or D3). I'm fine with it though because the only time spammy-clicking annoys me is when the game also uses ground targeting for movement (ie, all isometric loot games). But that's just a minor annoyance quickly overcome when the loots dropping in those appropriate experiences.

If your soft attack is really just something to do while you wait for your special abilities to recharge then I don't see what's so wrong with having it work automatically instead of making the player left-click repeatedly?
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