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Author Topic: The Elder Scrolls Online  (Read 755872 times)
tgr
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Just another victim of cyber age discrimination.


Reply #70 on: May 04, 2012, 03:50:17 AM

Fiery, you and I are interpretting this same article very differently.  We can keep going at it all day long - you are being pessimistic, and I'm being optimistic.
I've found that when it comes to MMORPGs these days, being pessimistic yields a much higher success rate than being optimistic.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Lucas
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Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.


Reply #71 on: May 04, 2012, 04:53:39 AM

Maybe I felt too let down earlier when I first read the leaks; now I'll just wait to have a more organic picture of the whole thing (along with a gameplay video during the expo summer season, hopefully). It's just that, at first sight, it looks like a messy mixture of stuff put in a cauldron; some elements sound too generic: in my opinion, TOR represented the last "pure" diku model (with some fresh elements here and there, yes), and I hope software houses will start exploring new ground from now on.

And, for my tastes (so it's more of a personal wish), "old is new", like someone mentioned earlier (lol at "public dungeons"), so I hope to see more and more mmos switching toward sandbox skill based titles :P

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Paelos
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Reply #72 on: May 04, 2012, 06:53:31 AM

Don't be fooled. Your first impressions when you heard about the changes to combat will never be wrong.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Surlyboi
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eat a bag of dicks


Reply #73 on: May 04, 2012, 07:07:49 AM

Fus-Ro-Dumb.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
blackwulf
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Reply #74 on: May 04, 2012, 07:09:45 AM

Fiery, you and I are interpretting this same article very differently.  We can keep going at it all day long - you are being pessimistic, and I'm being optimistic.
I've found that when it comes to MMORPGs these days, being pessimistic yields a much higher success rate than being optimistic.

Perhaps, and I have been very pessimistic since the whole Vanguard debacle, but honestly, since I heard rumors of the MMO Matt Firor was working on in 2007, I've been waiting for this, and if you look at that article with non-jaded eyes, and give a little faith to Firor and his team, it's easy to still be excited.  Especially if you loved DAOC.  I'm at the very least going to be patient and wait for some game play vids and interviews and maybe even a beta before I start to turn pessimistic.
Lucas
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Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.


Reply #75 on: May 04, 2012, 07:11:59 AM

Official website now online:

http://elderscrollsonline.com

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Lantyssa
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Reply #76 on: May 04, 2012, 07:35:16 AM

WAR is what made me the MMO cynic I am now. I haven't seen any reason to change so far. Guild Wars 2 better give me a blowjob when it launches and I might turn around.
I'm thinking of ways to have the babies of all ArenaNet staff.  ALL OF THEM.  And I'm still cynical about any MMO release.

Stop fucking trying to impersonate WoW "because it's what MMO players know".  Make a good game.  Make your own game.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #77 on: May 04, 2012, 08:00:57 AM

Quote
-The game uses a hotbar to activate skills like other traditional MMOs

Meh..

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Lucas
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Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.


Reply #78 on: May 04, 2012, 08:03:04 AM

Wow, I was checking the general reaction (most of it coming from those who read the leaked GI preview) on some of the most known websites dedicated to MMOs and PC gaming, and...well, I'm not really sure it's what Zenimax Online was expecting. Don't know, maybe the same ones voicing a negative opinion will turn into drooling fans after a couple of "reassuring words" by the lead developers. Even the official boards are pretty negative (but what do you expect from the single-player games fans, used to a sandbox style? I'm not really surprised).

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Speedy Cerviche
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Reply #79 on: May 04, 2012, 08:08:28 AM

Darkfall doesnt have agro mechanics in PvE and it works. The Mobs have decent battle AI, but their agro and patterns are pretty random. The only real "agro" function is that since back attacks do double damage, they tend to turn onpeople whacking them repeatedly there, as a self preservation mechanism.

The randomness of the Mobs actually makes it a bit more interesting in some ways, it really forces you to keep on your toes because the mob can turn on anyone in an instant. The PvE is also more engaging because the game is manual aim, so you actually have to aim your attacks, and friendly fire is on too, so aim carefully...You can even miss heals and heal the mob.
Venkman
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Reply #80 on: May 04, 2012, 08:16:31 AM

Teaser.

If they're smart, they'll now shut up until a well polished playable demo hits some convention. There is no possible way to please the WoW+Skyrim player. They've set an impossible goal just in this statement alone (or whoever wrote this):

Quote
"It needs to be comfortable for people who are comign in from a typical massively multiplayer game [wish they'd just say WoW] that has the same control mechanisms, but it also has to appeal to Skyrim players."
That person exists, but those two games are almost as far apart on everything as freaking Skyrim and Battlefield. I'm with Lantyssa: make your own game. Considering their source has been a long series of their own game, it's a shame they think the market is a bunch of has-been saved-by-f2p titles and WoW.

Feels like they're pulling a "eh, instead of sequels we'll do ES 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 all together and charge a recurring fee for it!/moneyhats." Maybe they can course correct some of it given the sunk resources vs actual returns on TOR.

Most of that GAF list was stock-MMO. Maybe it'll be good on that merit alone. But I'll manage my skepticism until I get hands at keyboard time with it :)

Four things stuck out at me though from that GAF list:

-The general art style is kind of like RIFT or Everquest 2: Ugh, really? not exactly inspiring here
-There will be no player housing: Hopefully that's an implied "not yet", since, ya know, RPG source had houses and shops and whatnot
-There will be no NPC romances or marriage: bland
-the game is set 1000 years in the past: wtf is it with pre-quelitis. Why are so many afraid to move things forward

The whole section about PvP: don't care, except insofar as my already-gutted RPG will get resources sucked away into PvP. As much love as DAoC BGs get, really small audience there. They'd probably rip off WoW's more simply because a lot more people played them. So, I'm leaning on the eSports side here too.
LC
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Reply #81 on: May 04, 2012, 08:20:23 AM

My obligatory train wreck prediction loses it's magic when everyone else knows the game will be a steaming pile of shit.
Paelos
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Reply #82 on: May 04, 2012, 08:26:05 AM

I still can't even get over how dumb this is. They aren't even making a TES game! It's nothing like anything we've ever played except for the name. HOW IS ANYBODY STILL THIS STUPID IN THE DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT???

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Modern Angel
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Reply #83 on: May 04, 2012, 08:35:58 AM

I have said, and maintain, that you have to be insane to dump lots of money into an MMO now. Have to. I said it after the AoC and WAR debacles. It's only been confirmed to me since then that people have no idea what they're doing. GW2 is probably the last gasp for MMOs for me, at least as a regular player. You have no idea how badly I want TESO to be good but it just won't be.
Lantyssa
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Reply #84 on: May 04, 2012, 09:32:02 AM

-the game is set 1000 years in the past: wtf is it with pre-quelitis. Why are so many afraid to move things forward
While I do agree, I don't have a problem with a far-flung prequel.  If it is given its own lore.  TOR upsets me because instead of expanding on the Old Republic games, it feels like the Clone Wars is a few years off.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Maledict
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Reply #85 on: May 04, 2012, 09:40:45 AM

They are using the HeroEngine.

Seriously - WHY are developers doing this? It's terrible! Bioware sunk how many millions into it and it still runs like shit, looks bland and has unresponsive combat?

Completely don't understand this decision. The guys who make HeroEngine must have the worlds best salespeople behind them.

Fabricated
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Reply #86 on: May 04, 2012, 10:16:36 AM

From the HeroEngine page: "FOCUS ON BUILDING YOUR GAME NOT THE TECH"

No! NO! Bad! Bad! Tech good! Tech very good! Just as important as the game!

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
koro
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Reply #87 on: May 04, 2012, 10:46:18 AM

They are using the HeroEngine.

Seriously - WHY are developers doing this? It's terrible! Bioware sunk how many millions into it and it still runs like shit, looks bland and has unresponsive combat?

Completely don't understand this decision. The guys who make HeroEngine must have the worlds best salespeople behind them.

I suspect that it's no coincidence that both Zenimax and Bioware started using the Hero Engine for their MMOs in the same year - 2007. Simutronics must've had a hell of a sales pitch, and by the time the MMO market showed that you can't out-WoW WoW, it was too late to really do an engine switch.

Also, I don't know how kosher it is here, but here is the actual Game Informer article the GAF thread's bullet points are taken from.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 10:52:00 AM by koro »
Paelos
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Reply #88 on: May 04, 2012, 10:58:49 AM

I think we are pretty against violating NDAs, but I don't think scooping gamer magazines bothers anybody, considering what they are.

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Rokal
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Reply #89 on: May 04, 2012, 11:15:19 AM

Quote
The reality of network latency and massively multiplayer games prevents The Elder Scrolls Online from following the real-time combat model that has driven the series since its inception

 awesome, for real
raydeen
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Reply #90 on: May 04, 2012, 11:16:30 AM

The public dungeons fill me with a certain dread. I can just see griefers training the entire dungeon to the zone line or figuring out some other new way to dick with the n00bs. I really loved EQ when they came out with LDoN. "A personal dungeon just for me and my party that no one else can fuck with? A capital idea my good man!" Now I will say that it could be interesting if there's a group/raid pvp element to it. But then it would sound something like what Aion did and while I never played it, I read all the horror stories about it.

Why is it so hard for a company to copy one of the few good things that EQ did? Make pvp level ranged or do what CoH and WAR did (although WAR's implementation was a bug), have level scaling. I was a level 2 in WAR and somehow got thrown into a level 20 BG. I didin't have any good weapons or armor but I was able to land blows and do some damage because the BG scaled me up to the appropriate level (completely by accident of course). Do this and world pvp might actually be fun for everyone instead of having high levels roaming around clubbing the helpless baby seals. I've been on both ends of that stick and frankly it's not satisfying either way.

I was drinking when I wrote this, so sue me if it goes astray.
Paelos
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Reply #91 on: May 04, 2012, 12:00:11 PM

Quote
The reality of network latency and massively multiplayer games prevents The Elder Scrolls Online from following the real-time combat model that has driven the series since its inception

 awesome, for real

So it's 13 years after EQ came out, but we're still bound by the same latency concerns as 1999? I don't buy this.

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Soln
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Reply #92 on: May 04, 2012, 12:12:59 PM

Quote
-The general art style is kind of like RIFT or Everquest 2: Ugh, really? not exactly inspiring here

I still come back to one of my major problems with SWTOR: art direction.  And funny enough, it was the same thing with EQ2.  A really weird kind of photorealism that made terrible faces.  And putting photoreal lions etc. next to fantasy meshed mobs made it all the more odd.  SWTOR was just great if you loved industrial architecture scenes, bad for faces and costumes and anything else.  Hope this will be different.
Rokal
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Reply #93 on: May 04, 2012, 12:28:41 PM

So it's 13 years after EQ came out, but we're still bound by the same latency concerns as 1999? I don't buy this.

DDO came out in 2006, before this game even began development, and proved that real-time combat in an MMO was possible. TERA does it even better, and proves that latency isn't what is holding back MMO design at this point: it's a serious lack of creativity and an aversion to risk.
murdoc
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Reply #94 on: May 04, 2012, 12:43:55 PM

There is nothing about this game that looks interesting.

Have you tried the internet? It's made out of millions of people missing the point of everything and then getting angry about it
Paelos
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Reply #95 on: May 04, 2012, 12:46:28 PM

So it's 13 years after EQ came out, but we're still bound by the same latency concerns as 1999? I don't buy this.

DDO came out in 2006, before this game even began development, and proved that real-time combat in an MMO was possible. TERA does it even better, and proves that latency isn't what is holding back MMO design at this point: it's a serious lack of creativity and an aversion to risk.

But it doesn't even require creativity. The games were already made. Even if you started this thing back in 2007, you had Oblivion to work off of. In fact it required a completely different approach than anything TES has ever been about to do this. It pisses me off to no end!

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tmp
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Reply #96 on: May 04, 2012, 12:49:21 PM

Seriously - WHY are developers doing this?
Their world building features seem well suited for large projects like this. It was main reason BioWare picked it too, iirc -- the ability to drop multiple teams and content developer types into the zone(s) and just build. I don't know if the claim of "there’s never been anything like it!" is accurate anymore, but it quite likely was when they were starting work on this game.
Lucas
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Reply #97 on: May 04, 2012, 02:15:03 PM

Here is the first, "official" screenshot, released on Game Informer:


Quote
What’s going on here?
In this image, you can see a couple player characters battling some Storm Atronachs. Storm Atronach are a species of daedra (divine creatures that come from magical dimensions) that are constructed from stone and held together by magic. The most powerful of all the atronachs, Storm Atronach are immune to normal weapons and shock attacks, are resistant to poisons, and can reflect spells back at their caster.

Is that all?
Behind the battle is a series of daedric ruins. These great towers were built long ago by an ancient race of people, but they’re not the only landmarks players will discover throughout their journey. As players travel through Skyrim, Morrowind, Cyrodiil, and the rest of Tamriel they will encounter various dwarven ruins, ancient nordic tombs, decayed dwemer buildings, and many other ancient locales, some of which players may have discovered in previous Elder Scrolls games.

I still want more!
We know you do, but that’s all for today. If you missed it, Elder Scrolls Online’s first teaser trailer released earlier today, and check back next week for more exclusive Elder Scrolls content.

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Nonentity
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Reply #98 on: May 04, 2012, 03:01:35 PM










But that Captain's salami tray was tight, yo. You plump for the roast pork loin, dogg?

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[20:42:41] The spirit touches you and you feel drained.
Lucas
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Reply #99 on: May 04, 2012, 03:03:53 PM

Ok, I'm having quite a gloomy evening for personal reasons, but you actually made me laugh with that  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
Draegan
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Reply #100 on: May 04, 2012, 03:07:47 PM

So I don't see anything new here.  So hard classes, trinity, dungeons and everyone has the same resource mechanic: stamina?

At least start with hybrid combat like GW2.
Venkman
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Reply #101 on: May 04, 2012, 03:08:04 PM

Yea just saw that on Kotaku. Will say again: they need to shut up for awhile. Though of course, this isn't them actively talking. It's more the longtail of everyone parsing that article.

I can't say I blame Zenimax in their 2006/2007 decision to greenlight this. Subs are more profitable over time than one offs. And yes, just announcing a new MMO doesn't automatically mean you're announcing you're going to beat WoW. The size of the business is really every other game that isn't #1, the same for every genre. So maybe they're being responsible with their expectations.

But, they really do seem off the mark. Skyrim has evolved into full on Second Life mode at this point, and the ES series itself is a brand both in the world and in its (usually kinda experimental) game mechanics. You cannot outright ignore your core, or you're going to get the backlash that any label slap deserves, thus diluting your brand and its own future.

Maybe they don't care? Maybe I'm overthinking the value of the ES franchise and the size of the core.
Daeven
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Reply #102 on: May 04, 2012, 03:14:19 PM

Quote
-There will be no player housing
What the....? So where am I supposed to store all my god damn cheeses?

Cheese wheel stacking. And, if you create the correct structures, it will spawn different cheesy adventures for your to experience.

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Reply #103 on: May 04, 2012, 03:21:24 PM

Maybe I'm overthinking the value of the ES franchise and the size of the core.

Skyrim is still the fifth or sixth best selling game on Steam most days, at $60.00, six months after it's release.  It's even beating out CoD.  I don't know of another PC franchise that has those kinds of legs, though on consoles it may be a different story.
Paelos
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Reply #104 on: May 04, 2012, 03:26:47 PM

Dear lord it just keeps getting worse. That screenshot!  ACK!

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
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