Dr. Who

[Khaldun]

I don't expect anybody to have changed their mind from last week, but I did really like Capaldi's extended monologue. Wouldn't have worked in the hands of a lesser actor.

[Ironwood]

It's not Capaldi.

[Threash]

I'm old enough to be your messiah was a fucking great line at least.

[HaemishM]

The monologue was the only good thing about the whole two part episode. That and the reactions of Zygon Clara during the speech. Other than that, it was utter shit, which really made me feel bad because Capaldi acted the fuck out of that speech.

The boxes and the whole setup though was really stupid.

[Ironwood]

I'm old enough to be your messiah was a fucking great line at least.

Yes.

[NowhereMan]

I actually liked it up until the whole 'well you forgot the last 15 times we did this ' It just removes any sense that something interesting just happened or there was real danger and kind of cheapened it all for me. Oh you people just keep having relations break down and I keep coming in to clean it up, ho hum. I really wish they didn't keep throwing that whole 'I'm the Doctor and I've always got a plan so nothing really phases me'. That said the monologue was great, I really liked the whole forgiveness part especially the Doctor showing why he was so willing to look past people who had done horrific things for the sake of it.

Although the box thing was pretty dumb, especially continuing through 'Truth or Consequences' which there would have been no way of knowing would be the rallying cry of that insurrection.

[Ironwood]

I assumed that line was a joke, or the whole episode was a farce.

[HaemishM]

I assumed that line was a joke, or the whole episode was a farce.

It probably was a farce, though not an intentional one. 

[Ironwood]

No, but if he did it any times before, all those people died for nothing rather a lot.

[HaemishM]

Yeah, there was an awful lot of what would seem like needless deaths if they've been through this 15 times before. The more you think about it, the more callous the whole thing seems to be.

So as with most of the Moffatry, better NOT to think too much about it.

[Johny Cee]

Yeah, there was an awful lot of what would seem like needless deaths if they've been through this 15 times before. The more you think about it, the more callous the whole thing seems to be.

So as with most of the Moffatry, better NOT to think too much about it.

Umm.

The memory wipe works fine.  I took it to mean that they had had the standoff in the room 15 times before the Doctor hit on the right conversational gambit and right emotional levers to pull before he actually got through to fake-Clara, not that this was the 15th time the ceasefire had broken down.

I really liked the boxes.  A major problem with the Doctor's conflict resolution is he talks his way around problems, but there isn't any reason for any of this week's baddies to listen to him/not shoot him immediately.  Old Who, that meant being captured, held captive, chased down the same corridor (or through the same quarry) multiple times, then being captured again, while he tried to work things out.  New Who leaned heavily on the Doctor bluffing until hitting on the exact right thing to say.

The boxes meant that the Evil Leader was stuck having to keep the Doctor alive and listen to him while trying to figure out what was going on.  The memory wipe meant that the Doctor didn't have one chance to miraculously talk down the leader, he had an instant redo.

(I tried to watch Genesis of the Daleks not too long ago and gave up after the second time everyone had been captured.... and the atrocious acting.)

[Khaldun]

I assumed the 15 times was a joke, or as Johny said, the Doctor had just reset the conversation 14 times when he failed to convince either Kate or the Zygon leader. If the boxes are just empty and it's all theater, he would probably need to do that every time somebody hit a button, since at that point the only thing that could follow is the sustained violence of the Zygon uprising. Might explain why his speech was so desperate-sounding--it's not just his own history making him feel so strongly, it's that he's tried 14 times already to convince the Zygon leader and failed.

[Ironwood]

Ok, fair enough, but that just makes it all clumsy as fuck.

Which we knew.

[Khaldun]

Watching the Doctor try and fail to convince and then resetting the memory wipe in some quick cuts might have actually been a pretty powerful lead-in to the speech, now that I think on it. A chance to move from humor to pathos, and a better way of making the Doctor's desperation in the monologue be both heartfelt and yet possibly cynical (e.g., does he really mean it, or is this just the latest ploy from a manipulative alien who is trying to figure out what "pushes the buttons" in these other beings, pun intended).

[HaemishM]

It would have made a lot more sense. Because to me, it sounded like the 15 times meant that there had been 15 previous revolutions that had all been put down the same way, with a similar cost of lives. It seemed like it might have been written as a kind of throwaway ha-hah line but without clarity actually made it seem a fuckload worse.

[Surlyboi]

Zygon Clara is hottest Clara.

[Khaldun]

Not only hotter but...a way better actress when she's playing Zygon. Or Dalek. Or a Victorian nanny. It just shows how much "Real Clara" has never been even remotely a consistent character.

[MahrinSkel]

Mary Poppins Clara was certainly the best Clara. After they resolved the Impossible Girl question, she's just been another Companion, and that ground has been tread into a rut.

--Dave

[NowhereMan]

She's playing a normal human who is also totally, almost the Doctor's equal and loves nothing more than adventures and space. It's a bit of an uncanny valley between relatable viewpoint character and super protagonist Doctor. I think it worked well when they could play her off with Danny Pink, she had two poles she could bounce off and it gave the character some actual tension in terms of her relationship with Danny. Since that ended she's become a co-star without any real purpose.

[HaemishM]

Killing off Danny Pink was a real fuckup, IMO. He was a great character - not quite Rory level companion but given time I think he could have been.

[pxib]

Yes, because a Sonic Screwdriver that can do everything from analyze chrono-molecular composition to delivering stun bolts, *except* drive screws, is totally more believable.

Legacy stupidity is okay because it's quaint nostalgia, like a running gag. It remains an extremely poor excuse for new stupidity. See comics.

[Sir T]

To e honest, I always just assumed that he had 10 or 15 screwdrivers in his pockets and he just pulled out the specific one he needed at a given time. They all look the same just to fuck with people. But that's me just trying to make sense of a lazy prop dept...

[Khaldun]

What I'd like to see with some future Companions is just a really new take on things, somehow.

1) An alien would be brilliant. Not likely I guess.
2) A person from the future or the past would be at least somewhat in line with things they've done before.
3) How about someone who has an honest-to-fucking-god plot arc besides Pygmalion/Henry Higgins? That was what was nice about Danny Pink--imagine travels in the TARDIS by two battle-haunted veterans, that could be great. I dunno, bring a failed novelist recovering from a suicide attempt on board. A revolutionary who won his/her revolution and is now haunted by the regime he/she helped to make. A 25-something hedonist who is beginning to sober up and realize that life isn't always parties. An evolutionary biologist who is determined to understand how extraterrestrial life works. A retired soccer star who is getting ridiculously bored just hanging about. A lawyer who is used to always winning the argument. Anything besides another young woman who discovers herself and life in the universe while falling in love and/or finding a daddy substitute in the Doctor.

[Ironwood]

Donna was brilliant.

[Sir T]

Yep. Donna was perfect.

[NowhereMan]

But FairyTales aren't about battle-scarred veterans, they're about plucky princesses who fall in love and have an adventure along the way.

I was going to say I'd like a darker, older fairy tale with a companion character dying on an adventure but we've already done the mopey, angsty Doctor to death and that would be the only place to go after that. Or I guess the other way entirely and have the Doctor react like a pet owner, 'Oh dear, Clara's dead. I'm really sad but I should probably get another one before I get too mopey about her and don't want to get another again.' I feel that would be overly dark.

[Ironwood]

I dunno, would he flush her down the toilet or bury her in a shoebox in the garden ?

[HaemishM]

An entire episode of Eye Booger Men? I kept falling asleep through this one (ironic that) but I couldn't make heads nor tails of it and so choose not to give a fuck.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Step 1: Create scary looking monsters.
Step 2: ?
Step 3: profit! 


This episode actually made me mad, not only did the weird camera angles look like shit, but the entire premise of no sleep creates monsters was the absolute worst.   What was even the point? If you have a signal that can fuck with peoples heads just by watching it why is there any need to make the monsters, or kill the space crew? Were the monsters ever real or just bullshit? If dust can transmit video why can't it get a better fucking angle?  HOW THE FUCK CAN NOT SLEEPING CREATE SUPER EVOLVED EYE GUNK.

[palmer_eldritch]

Am I right that the story in the last episode (the secret place in London episode) was

?

So it seems Clara has a death wish.

[Ironwood]

Yes.

[Special J]

An entire episode of Eye Booger Men? I kept falling asleep through this one (ironic that) but I couldn't make heads nor tails of it and so choose not to give a fuck.

Your reaction would have been the same had you stayed awake. It's just terrible. Peter Capaldi got his Abzorbaloff episode. Ugh.

[Khaldun]

Yeah, Eye Booger episode was bad on several levels. Not I think quite Love and Monsters but still bad.

I know I'm sentimental so I did find "Face the Raven" fairly affecting.

[Special J]

No, not AS bad.  The sleep pod hook was a good one, too bad everything around it was awful.

Yeah Face the Raven was alright but they sure spent a lot of time on the search for Diagon Alley. Ending worked ok for me. But as mentioned, that's a pretty complex scheme.

[Khaldun]

I'm guessing more that whomever has snatched him may pull some version of her out of the timestream so he gets a bit more time with her. But then again, this had a bit of the feel of The Deadly Assassin--the Doctor thrown into a situation where he has to be alone, so a companion gets left in the dust (or bites it).