Dr. Who

[Khaldun]

The loop thing I understood perfectly--it's a Star Trek transporter with him stuck in the pattern buffer, so he's only ever 'aged' a day before dying in there even if 2 billion years have passed in the castle. Why the castle itself doesn't fall apart in 2 billion years without anybody hitting it is a different matter, and why the diamond-ish wall doesn't reset when everything else does is yet yet another. But those are things I don't need to get too antsy about--at that level of picking at the plot, there is literally not an episode of Dr. Who ever that passes the test. Take "Family of Blood"--wait, the Doctor can stick powerful aliens in mirrors and in scarecrows and in dwarf star chains just because he's pissed off? Since when? But who would want to pick nits on that conclusion? 

[Lakov_Sanite]

Well, based on the previous discussion of the painting thing in that War Doctor thingie with John Hurt, I think it's outside time and space - while being in his pocket. Hence the ability for him to live 2 billion fucking years or some shit and not have to regenerate, or any of the shit in the castle degrading or the closed energy loop or whatever. Of course, Moffat so anything that was said was probably forgotten long ago.

He didn't live 2billion years, he lived basically a couple days at a time before dying and powering up the teleporter again to make a new version of himself, teleporter clones have been a thing since star trek TNG I believe.  As far as the castle degrading it was constantly moving back in time and resetting itself, that part seemed consistent to me.

[Khaldun]

Though the castle seems to have been in a physical setting--the position of the stars changed. Also not sure what planet you can put a castle on in the middle of the water where two billion years don't change a thing about it. Also if the Doctor 'dies' every third day or so, that's about 200 billion skulls--even if they decay that's going to change the environment around the castle eventually. Again, these are little things. The thing that drives me nuts is that they're all solveable with a line or two of dialogue.

[Ironwood]

HOW DID THE FIRST SET OF DRY CLOTHES GET THERE.  Think about that.  Then try to get Nude Capaldi out of your head.

[HaemishM]

No, I got the whole thing about the transporter buffer Doctor, closed energy loop and all that (though yes, the diamond wall not resetting completely contradicted ALL OF IT). And I got that his body didn't actually live 2 billion years, though it's somehow saying that the essence which allows him to regenerate is actually transferrable through a teleporter buffer which would open Time Lords up for all sorts of crazy ass attacks. I'm not really worried about what any of it means, because it's Moffat and we know it won't mean a goddamn thing because his explanations are off the cuff let's get through this story sort of excuses that don't have any lasting effect except when they do.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Well he was using his time essence(tm) to power the thing right? I assume that was the spark/soul/whatever being transferred into the clone, which is also how you get a bit of memory transferred as well.

[Ironwood]

Er, no, he was just burning himself up and using the energy to power the teleport.

What memory transfer ?

[Lakov_Sanite]

Er, no, he was just burning himself up and using the energy to power the teleport.

What memory transfer ?

Well his burning himself up was essentially using that regeneration power to activate the teleporter which is how I would explain why you can't 'just' copy time lords. As far as the memory thing the episode gives him glimpses of memory/deja vu and at one point when he drops the spoon, he realizes what's going on even is he doesn't remember every detail. I just attribute this to timelords being partially out linear time.

[HaemishM]

No, I don't think he was remembering anything. He was just figuring it out based on the clues his previous copy had left.

[NowhereMan]

Oh good, so all my questions are basically answered with 'stupid misdirect' and 'Moffat'.

At least the former is actually better than what I was expecting although it makes the misdirect pretty tortured to justify.

[Ironwood]

I wish we had better answers for you.  Truly.

[slog]

HOW DID THE FIRST SET OF DRY CLOTHES GET THERE.  Think about that.  Then try to get Nude Capaldi out of your head.

I'm scarred for life.

[HaemishM]

Those were left by the first/real Doctor and the first one we saw was obviously just a clone. DUH. 

[Ironwood]

Yes, but my point (and the funsies) is he'd have had to have left them there.

So, he spent the rest of the episode doing all the rest that the clone did naked.

[HaemishM]

DANGLY BITS.

[slog]

I watched the first episode of the new DR who from back in 2008?  It's much lighter.

[palmer_eldritch]

I'm pretty dumb when it comes to figuring out plot twists so I didn't pick up on the 'me' thing.

Of course the Doctor is in fact a hybrid, although I'm happy to pretend the TV movie never happened.

I don't really understand the last episode, I mean what was the point of killing him over and over just to bring him back every time? Why put the Tardis behind a tougher-than-diamond wall, why not just not put it in the castle where the Doctor is at all? Unless letting him get the Tardis was part of the plan. Etc but to be honest I'm fairly happy just going with the flow and not really worrying about the plot.

[Khaldun]

Actually I dunno where the TARDIS is at this point re: the next episode. I think it's back on Earth still in the 21st Century. It may get called to where he is in the coming episode, or who knows, maybe not.

[HaemishM]

I'm sure it'll show up because... reasons.

[Ironwood]

I don't really understand the last episode, I mean what was the point of killing him over and over just to bring him back every time? Why put the Tardis behind a tougher-than-diamond wall, why not just not put it in the castle where the Doctor is at all? Unless letting him get the Tardis was part of the plan. Etc but to be honest I'm fairly happy just going with the flow and not really worrying about the plot.

1 - We don't know who was killing him.  For all we know, he's doing it to himself in order to figure out the Hybrid truth he's buried.  Because Fuck You, that's why.
2 - The sign flashed up 'HOME'.  The Doc assumed it was the TARDIS.  Turned out it was his literal home.  SLEIGHT OF HAND !  R U Shocked ?!
3 - Not worrying about the plot will stand you in good stead for tonight, I suspect.

[palmer_eldritch]

Here's some footage from the first story that featured the Time Lords!

The Doctor summons the Time Lords:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIr5ybomd48

They force him to regenerate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjIZPl3ABXo

They used to be a bit more mysterious and all-powerful.

[Ironwood]

Ha Ha.  Lol.

Stop writing Moffat.

[palmer_eldritch]

Spotted on Twitter: "Idea for a Doctor Who episode: they go somewhere and have an exciting adventure. You could get a few years of stories out of that." I'm not alone!

With most shows I'd just stop watching but I love Doctor Who despite everything so I have to torture myself and then come here and torture the rest of you.

[Surlyboi]

Well, at least we got a new screwdriver.

[HaemishM]

Jesus Christ, did I seriously just watch a two-hour long INTERVENTION for a co-dependent relationship between the Doctor and a companion? ...THE FUCK?

It's just beyond fucking ridiculous now. I mean, the Doctor didn't even make this kind of fuss over Rose and he was shagging her. This was just sad and creepy and pathetic. Also, if the goddamn Time Lords could make all that effort to trap the Doctor back in the 21st century in the Alley, why would they let Clara just waltz away to some diner in Nevada since her presence could conceivably unravel time and space? My DVR cut off the last minute or two, so did they ever say if her heart started again? And why, after telling him she didn't want to take the chance of her living causing all that time damage, why would she then allow that she'd stay alive with the memory thing like two seconds later?

NONE OF THAT MADE ANY FUCKING SENSE WHATSO-GODDAMN-EVER.

I thought that Moffat couldn't possibly punk out more on a companion leaving than with Amy and Rory, and yet somehow he managed it.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Moffat had a serious hardon for clara, this is obvious.

[HaemishM]

So do I, but at least mine makes sense and has a definitive climax. 

[MahrinSkel]

HaemishM, if you missed the part where Clara said she still didn't have a heartbeat, then you missed the teaser for what's next. So now I am torn between whether to tell you and watch you melt down now, or waiting....

[HaemishM]

I have now seen the end of the episode as well as the preview for the Christmas special.

Moffat is just an utter utter cockwomble.

Rather than try to get Maise Williams to be a companion (which would have been interesting before he turned her into Mini-Master) after Clara left, he does... that. The fuck is that? Never aging Clara flies around in a goddamn diner-shaped Tardis with Immortal What Can't Remember Her Name.

And just fuck River Song, fuck her right out the goddamn airlock.

[Khaldun]

I liked the first twenty minutes of the Doctor having it out with the Time Lord hierarchy. I could have very much liked another forty minutes of that escalating further where it was clear that anger over Clara was part of what motivated the Doctor and where he had to find a way to dial that anger back and make peace with the Time Lords. I could even have done with a bit more exploration of Gallifreyean society. But the next forty minutes were just fucking terrible. A tremendous waste of everything--of this season, of a Gallifrey-centered episode, of Capaldi's ability as an actor, of the pathos of Clara's death, of time travel as a premise, etc. That wasn't merely bad, it was bad with material that the show needs not to ever be done badly.

[Lakov_Sanite]

The thing that bugs me the most is the whole pulling Clara out of time thing.  Wasn't the shadow crow thing supposed to find her no matter where in time she went which is why they just didn't pop off to another time in the first place?

[Khaldun]

[Khaldun]

A separate thing, by the way: I'm fucking sick to death of Moffat more or less mocking long-time fans of the show. He's become very fond of playing with invoking some past story or idea or theme, or closing some kind of narrative loop, or filling out the mythos in some way, and it is 100% always a tease that's intended to make you feel stupid for having even thought he was going to do that and stupid even for having even known about the thing you thought he was going to reference. The way that "Hell Bent" plays with finally firing the gun-on-the-mantlepiece of Clara scattered through the Doctor's own timeline saving him a thousand times from the Great Intelligence, which was forgotten literally the moment it was done--and then the episode practically laughs at anyone who thought that Moffat would give even one fuck for having written that idea into the series in the first place.

[Ironwood]

He always does that.  It's why I hate him so much.  He does it on purpose.  He's said in interviews he does it on purpose.  He doesn't care about fans or the show.  It's why I hate him.

See :  Black Woman Regeneration.  He did that very much on purpose.

[palmer_eldritch]

He also basically retconned the entire show. Instead of stealing a time capsule and escaping Gallifrey because he's an eccentric, adventurous, curious person who wanted to see the universe and fight evil, it turns out the Doctor ran way because of a prophecy which suggested he, the Doctor, would destroy everything.

It sums up Moffat's approach to the show really. It' no longer about a mysterious alien and his human companion who travel through time and space and encounter people who need help, it's all about the Doctor and his mythology.