Dr. Who

[Khaldun]

Yeah, I never heard that she was unhappy or anything.

Clara has never had any personality at all anyway--she was a just a plot device and eye candy.

She absolutely should have disappeared for good once she went into his timeline. That would have been modestly interesting and would have on occasion given them the chance to put her in an episode or two, though the way they staged that, the point I thought was not that she saves him from everything but that specifically she blocks everything that the Great Intelligence tries to do to him. It would have had a nice tragic edge to it if she was condemned to that and the Doctor couldn't do anything about it.

Please, please, please, it's time for the Doctor to once again have a companion whose story is not rooted in early 21st Century Great Britain and who isn't anything magical timey-wimey in any way. Sure, give the companion their own story, their own development as a character--that was a very desirable addition to the series from Ace onward. But please--have the Doctor pick up someone from Earth's past or future. Or an alien. Or a machine. Something.

[Merusk]

...but then where do we put the Moffatdated hot chick?

[Johny Cee]

Donna was the best for reasons that ought to be obvious to everyone.

She was.  Does anyone know why she left the show? I imagine it's cause moffat thought fans only want super hot companions.

I know the Moffat hate is pretty ingrained, but Donna was in Davies term as showrunner back when the Davies hate was pretty ingrained.  The actress had other things going on (she had her own comedy series going on at the time) and was probably only signed to one season.  I mean, generally I find Moffat fine but some of his tics have started to get annoying...  the sheer level of HATE is kind of  

Moffat did clear out the slate of supporting characters (Captain Jack, Rose, Mickey, etc.) to incorporate his own supporting characters and mythology.  

[palmer_eldritch]

I know the Moffat hate is pretty ingrained, but Donna was in Davies term as showrunner back when the Davies hate was pretty ingrained.  The actress had other things going on (she had her own comedy series going on at the time) and was probably only signed to one season.  I mean, generally I find Moffat fine but some of his tics have started to get annoying...  the sheer level of HATE is kind of  

Moffat did clear out the slate of supporting characters (Captain Jack, Rose, Mickey, etc.) to incorporate his own supporting characters and mythology.  

Yeah, I imagine Donna had to go because the new showrunner wanted to do his own thing, which is fair enough and probably a good idea (in theory but grr Moffat grrr   )

Not sure why she couldn't have been in more of the specials though, although the way they ended her story in the Stolen Earth/Journey's End was nice and seemed like a natural way for her to bow out.

[Surlyboi]

Fuck you all, i like Clara. Mostly for the eye candy, but I like her anyway.

I do agree that we need a companion from the past or future. Bring back Captain Jack. Now that Torchwood's a shambles and all his other American projects are meh, he's good to go.

[01101010]

Fuck you all, i like Clara. Mostly for the eye candy, but I like her anyway.

I do agree that we need a companion from the past or future. Bring back Captain Jack. Now that Torchwood's a shambles and all his other American projects are meh, he's good to go.

But only for a few episodes. I really like Capt Jack and his whoring ways... but after Torchwood, it wouldn't seem right bringing him back every episode.

[palmer_eldritch]

What happened to Torchwood? I thought Miracle Day was meant to be the start of a new US-based show, not the end of it all.

[Surlyboi]

Miracle Day sucked so much, they killed it.

Great in theory, shit in execution. Had it been five eps like Children of Earth, it probably would've worked.

[01101010]

Miracle Day sucked so much, they killed it.

Great in theory, shit in execution. Had it been five eps like Children of Earth, it probably would've worked.

Yeah, that season just about killed the whole thing for me and even made me dislike Harkness a bit. Children was pretty damn good though.

[Khaldun]

Children was good except that it really depended on significant numbers of the characters being stupid. I could see the whole "let's make a deal" thing going off, but why all the folderol about taking Torchwood out etc.? Why *not* play it rough and smooth, keep some black ops working while you cover your ass and make the deal? Plus this was one big case where "this is a universe with the Doctor in it" just did not come off. Not because the Doctor didn't come in to save the day but because Earth (once again!) seems to have forgotten literally everything it allegedly already knows about dealing with aliens.

[Ironwood]

Don't know.

Really don't know.

Um.


EDIT :  Tho, it was an entirely Moffat written episode and I'm ambivalent.  That ought to tell you something, I guess.

[Evildrider]

I heard the first episode is bad, the second a bit better, and the third is really good.  So I'm willing to give it a few episodes before I decide to hate it or not.

[Ironwood]

It was a two parter really, with the first part being ok and hitting some nice notes and then some farty Moffat at the end.

Hey ho.

[Khaldun]

The family is watching the final Matt Smith episode while waiting and I wandered in. I'd forgotten just how really bad it was, and so disappointing, after a really pretty damn good 50th special.

[Lakov_Sanite]

The family is watching the final Matt Smith episode while waiting and I wandered in. I'd forgotten just how really bad it was, and so disappointing, after a really pretty damn good 50th special.

I didn't hate the concept of it but it was just really rushed and shouldn't have been crammed into one episode like that.

[Simond]

If they'd cut everything before the restaurant scene it would have been a really good episode.

[Lakov_Sanite]

If they'd cut everything before the restaurant scene it would have been a really good episode.

Are you thinking of Tennant?

[Merusk]

So there's 10 mins of Will Wheaton and douchy American BBC guy before the episode. Get on with it.

Ed: Surli, you're fired for not getting on tv despite going to that event.   

[Surlyboi]

I didn't go. Sent my monkeys. They were in for a second. Sadly, the hotter of the two of them was obscured by the dorkier.

Also, "Five foot one and crying, you never had a chance."

[Khaldun]

Does "restaurant scene" mean the scene with the Doctor and the clockwork cyborg alone in the escape pod, that has an ambiguous ending? Because I thought that was the best thing in the whole episode.

The phone thing at the almost-end was absolutely wretched.

[Surlyboi]

Yes, but "These are attack eyebrows" makes up for it.

[Bunk]

If they'd cut everything before the restaurant scene it would have been a really good episode.

Heh, I felt exactly the opposite. I thought everything from the restaurant on went off the rails.

[Bunk]

Yes, highlight of the episode was the entire alley scene. That part of Moffat's writing I enjoy.

[Ironwood]

If they'd cut everything before the restaurant scene it would have been a really good episode.

I too hope you mean 'and keep the stuff before', because otherwise, I'm not sure what to do with you.

The minute you realised it was Moffat rehashing one of his old episodes, it got clusterfucked.  Matt Phone Call was Clusterfucked.  Fake 'omg what actually happened' was clusterfucked.  Dream Garden Arc Woooooowoooo was Clusterfucked.

I did love Capaldi though.  Also, Strax.  Why isn't there just a Strax show ?  Him boiling people in acid ?

[Simond]

If they'd cut everything before the restaurant scene it would have been a really good episode.

I too hope you mean 'and keep the stuff before', because otherwise, I'm not sure what to do with you.

So you thought T-Rex puking up the Tardis like a cat with a hairball was good?  

On review it's not the restaurant it should be skipped to, but the t-rex getting torched. Start there, skip 90% of lesbian lizard Sherlock, cut to tramp in alley and go from there. Phone call was clearly because Moffat doesn't trust the gigglesquee tweenies to keep watching now that the Doctor isn't young. Heavy-handed as fuck and my personal opinion is "Fuck 'em if they can't handle it" but then again I don't have to worry about ratings.

E: Just had a thought. You know what would have made better villains than the clockworks? Cybermen. Same set up, but they're performing reverse cyber-conversions on themselves in desperation as part of the whole "We MUZZZT survive!" thing.

[Khaldun]

I think you may have just guessed at the season ender, actually--that woman is in it and she seems from the set pictures to be directing or working with Cybermen.

I actually liked the ambiguity around whether the Doctor pushed the robot out. And I liked some of the dialogue in that scene.

I liked the stuff in the alley. Liked a lot of Capaldi.

I really disliked Clara's general reaction to his regeneration. If there is a single companion in the entire history of the series who should be nonplussed by his regeneration, it's her. She's supposedly spent time saving all of his incarnations from the Great Intelligence, so she's very familiar with the variety of faces he can have. I'm ok with her saying, "But I liked the last one so much, and I don't like this one very much"--that's fine. But the "he got old! why? what's that?" is dumb. And it was a foretaste of the absolutely shit phone call thing, which just so argh argh argh. It makes the crap Amy Pond narration that BBC America used for a season look a subtle bit of pandering instead.

[Ironwood]

There as no ambiguity.  Surely.

[Khaldun]

There at least an attempt to create a sense of "did he?" around it, but yeah, I took it to be pretty clear. And I'm quite happy if that means Twelve will in general be less prancy and cutesy etc. about doing what he must do at times. And hopefully this will also mean less of the almost-endorsement of the idea that the Doctor is just the same as his enemies or whatever. Perhaps the Doctor discovering that his "War Doctor" self was not such a bad fellow after all will have a good effect on him overall.

[Khaldun]

All the reviews in the US mentioned Strax's vlog on the Doctors, by the way, but that didn't actually show on BBC America, I guess so we could see Chris Hardwick and Wil Wheaton. Would rather have seen Strax.

[Lakov_Sanite]

The woman at the end is without a doubt the master,  if you replaced it with the old actor who played him you'd see the same manic behavior and obession with the doctor.

Overall I thought the episode was fine.  If the sappy bit with 11 is what is considered "moffatry crap" then I don't know what to say because that sentimentality is what has grown the fanbase by leaps and bounds this last decade.  You may not like it but I'm pretty sure that sort of thing is here to stay. 

For me the only stupid part was "quick everyone stop breathing and they will forget they were trying to kill us"  that whole scene could have just been cut because 1min later they were back in the same situation.

[MahrinSkel]

I'm assuming the "hold your breath" is a setup for something in a later episode, because otherwise it was completely useless.  The phone call was probably some kind of attempt to get "regeneration" across to the newer fans who don't remember anyone but Matt Smith in the role.

--Dave

[Surlyboi]

The phone call and the Clara, "But he's so old" bit was for the tweeny twilight types that have become the current fanbase.

[Ironwood]

He pretty much addressed all the questions at the start, in a clever way I thought.  Which is why I preferred the start and then he just wanked for the rest of it.  Hey, remember that Pompadour episode I wrote ?  Do you remember ?  DO YOU REMEMBER   DO YOU SEE ??!

[Raguel]

The woman at the end is without a doubt the master,  if you replaced it with the old actor who played him you'd see the same manic behavior and obession with the doctor.

That's interesting. She referred to the doctor as her boyfriend so I assumed she was some manifestation of the tardis.

[Ironwood]

I thought Tardis too. 

But you know it'll end up being something utterly mentalcakes.