Heroes

[Samprimary]

Most of it makes sense to me. Why does everything have to be watertight? It's fiction, and it's television, for fuck's sake.

We need a nerdrage emoticon.

It is also bad for fans of the show (i am included!) because, in its present form, Heroes will not survive. It will continue to be excoriated by critics and fans alike until it is dropped, made a subject of a handful of sharkjump-analysis/What Happened articles, and vanish.. tearing down the whole scififictiondrama thing's prospects in television, and it will be all the more potent a sad thing because, I mean, looking back at season one, this show can be good. It has it in it.

[Jeff Kelly]

A few observations:

US american TV series seriously suffer from the ADD of their viewers. I follow a few discussions about Heroes on american fansites and the ongoing tenor is 'Oh my god they haven't wrapped up something hat they hinted at two episodes ago. Stupid writers'

The arc is 20 to 24 episodes for a whole series, why has everything to be explained/wrapped up/revisited one week from now?

I miss the 'let's wait what the writers have in stock for us' days which have been replaced by self entitled whining of the fanbois. 'Give us everything now or we don't watch any more'. I call it the Comic Book Guy Syndrome.

Season 3 is still great entertainment and one of the best shows on television right now. What you all seem to do here is complain on a very high level. If ratings stay as they are right now it will most probably be replaced by something far worse.

I watched Seasons 1 to 3 back to back and I can say that there are far less logic holes than some fans seem to imply. A lot of the cnfusion stems from the fact that it has been nearly 9 Months since the end of Season 2 and most people already forgot most of the story.

In restrospect I think it has been a very bad move by NBC to not continue with Heroes after the strike had ended.

[MuffinMan]

Wow. Watching all 3 seasons back to back to back gives you a different perspective of the story flow  Doesn't invalidate the opinions of the people that watched them while they airied.

[CmdrSlack]

Well that was an episode that didn't suck.



Having saved the past two seasons on the DVR, it does make a big difference to see it without the delays. There are quite a few old loose ends being tied up right now.

[Abagadro]

That's it. I'm done. When you have to have a narrator narrate the past scenes to tell people WTF is going on, your show officially sucks.

[Jeff Kelly]

That's it. I'm done. When you have to have a narrator narrate the past scenes to tell people WTF is going on, your show officially sucks.

No your viewers do. Follow a generic forum discussion on any one of the current series. Most people can't even remember what happened last week let alone what happened last season.

Why do you get all of the 'previously on' stuff and the Lost and Heroes recap shows and stupid recap shots in the episodes themselves or people actually saying things that reiterate past events in an episode.

It's all done because most people cannot even remember what happened 10 minutes ago. If you don't do it you bleed viewers as more and more tune out because they can't follow the narrative any longer.

[Nevermore]

I'd prefer they do it like Mad Men.  Just show me clips of prior scenes that are relevant to this episode and leave out the cheesy voice over.  The narrator actually called Noah "H R G". 

So it seems the theme for this season is to turn all the previous heroes into villains and to turn the one villain into a hero.  Well, except for Hiro since I don't believe for a second he actually killed Ando.  At least the plot is starting to come together in a way that makes a certain amount of sense.

[Abagadro]

No, it really doesn't make any sense at all.

[Nevermore]

The basic plot isn't that difficult.  Poppa Petrelli has decided for whatever reason that he wants everyone to have powers, so he initiates the theft of the two parts of the magic formula and recruits 'specials' to his cause (though most don't realize that's who their throwing their lot in with).  Mama Petrelli is trying to oppose him, largely ineffectually.  Everything else going on is just window dressing that may or may not influence the plans of one or the other senior Petrelli.  That's certainly more than what we knew an episode or two ago.  It may or may not be a good plot, but it does make a certain amount of sense.

[NiX]

I've almost given up. They've thrown a lot of their character development out the window from the past seasons. Hiro became an overnight asshole with no emphasis on why. I know he's obsessed with being a hero, saving the world and generally going on "missions", but seriously, they can't actually make us believe he'd do what he did in the last episode.

[voodoolily]

I don't think it's that shallow, you fickle lot. No character development? Are you fucking kidding me? That's all they've been doing.  Or, it will be the premise for Ando going villain. Doy.

Hiro hasn't turned into an asshole overnight, he's just becoming a little more savvy in the use of his powers, and a little less "Tsugoi! Supa-man!".

[Tebonas]

Wow, this show is becoming a trainwreck!

Anybody still the same person they started out as (and no, circumstances can only change so much, they can't eradicate basic personality traits)?

If Hiro did something else than faking Andos death the writers need some antiretardation medicine.
And if he did that will be a "Yawn, ANOTHER fake death" moment.

[NiX]

Hiro hasn't turned into an asshole overnight, he's just becoming a little more savvy in the use of his powers, and a little less "Tsugoi! Supa-man!".

He's not using his powers though, it's all stuff that defines his character.


They're very close to shark jumping/"Lost"ing it.

[voodoolily]

Srsly, you think they're just gonna shit-can his inner self in one episode? And then you call foul over it?

[Tebonas]

The alternative is plain lazy writing because everybody who knows Hiro knows he didn't kill Ando. One whole season was his quest to undo Andos death!

Besides, Hiro as the comic book geek that he is should fucking know he does everything at the moment to make Ando his archnemesis. Straight out of the Superheroes 101 playbook.

[Slyfeind]

Holy crap, you people need to stop watching TV because honestly EVERYTHING on TV sucks. You can't get away from it. Geez, next thing you know, you'll all be asking for a fun MMO!

[Tebonas]

And still talking about MMOs is fun enough to do it in forums.

Go figure! 

[Nevermore]

Holy crap, you people need to stop watching TV because honestly EVERYTHING on TV sucks. You can't get away from it. Geez, next thing you know, you'll all be asking for a fun MMO!

Watch Mad Men if you want to see the best writing on television.  Watch Heroes if you want to watch a light entertainment popcorn show that you should never take seriously but is still more entertaining than 90% of the rest of the crap on TV.  Personally, I watch both.

[Samwise]

My money is on Ando's death being a magic trick.  There's even some precedent for it in the novel "Saving Charlie" (yes, I read it, no, it's not great, but it's not horrible either), where he has a brief stint as a stage magician.  Stop time, swap the sword for a fake, start time, stab Ando, stop time, dump a pint of blood into his shirt, start time, pull sword out, stop time, swap sword back for original, restart time.

Daphne would be the only one who could catch him at it, and only if she was doing her speedy thing at the time.  Which she wasn't.  And Ando would be just sharp enough to play along, I think.  That or as part of the trick Hiro could have whacked him on the head or shot him up with tranquilizers to make sure he reacted appropriately.

[schild]

Holy crap, you people need to stop watching TV because honestly EVERYTHING on TV sucks. You can't get away from it. Geez, next thing you know, you'll all be asking for a fun MMO!

Watch Mad Men if you want to see the best writing on television.  Watch Heroes if you want to watch a light entertainment popcorn show that you should never take seriously but is still more entertaining than 90% of the rest of the crap on TV.  Personally, I watch both.

Slyfeind is just crazy.

As for you, Nevermore, while good, Mad Men doesn't have the best writing and Heroes isn't the best light entertainment.

That is, if we're talking about truths rather than opinions.

[Slyfeind]

My money is on Ando's death being a magic trick.  There's even some precedent for it in the novel "Saving Charlie" (yes, I read it, no, it's not great, but it's not horrible either), where he has a brief stint as a stage magician.  Stop time, swap the sword for a fake, start time, stab Ando, stop time, dump a pint of blood into his shirt, start time, pull sword out, stop time, swap sword back for original, restart time.

Daphne would be the only one who could catch him at it, and only if she was doing her speedy thing at the time.  Which she wasn't.  And Ando would be just sharp enough to play along, I think.  That or as part of the trick Hiro could have whacked him on the head or shot him up with tranquilizers to make sure he reacted appropriately.

Or he could have stopped time as soon as he touched the sword to him, then told him the plan. Hiro didn't stab Ando that quickly.

[Nevermore]

Slyfeind is just crazy.

As for you, Nevermore, while good, Mad Men doesn't have the best writing and Heroes isn't the best light entertainment.

That is, if we're talking about truths rather than opinions.

I don't think Heroes is necessarily the best light entertainment, but it ranks up there.  It's certainly good enough to keep a comfortable position on the Tivo.  I'm at a loss as to what could have better writing on television than Mad Men, though.  Please to share, I'd like to give whatever it is a watch.

[Sauced]

The show is careening into "So bad it's funny" territory, which is fine, but I have to admit that it is starting to test my "guilty pleasure" threshold.  Watching it with Voodoo is where most of my enjoyment is coming from this season.

[schild]

I don't think Heroes is necessarily the best light entertainment, but it ranks up there.  It's certainly good enough to keep a comfortable position on the Tivo.  I'm at a loss as to what could have better writing on television than Mad Men, though.  Please to share, I'd like to give whatever it is a watch.

I love Mad Men, but for writing I prefer Boston Legal or Californication or even Pushing Daisies (mostly because of the narrator, ok, because of the narrator).

[Tebonas]

Pushing Daisies has the best writing on TV right now. From a pure wordsmith perspective, it is art. The narrator helps, obviously.

[voodoolily]

The show is careening into "So bad it's funny" territory, which is fine, but I have to admit that it is starting to test my "guilty pleasure" threshold.  Watching it with Voodoo is where most of my enjoyment is coming from this season.

That's because I stroke your manly chest while we watch it.

[Rasix]

The show is careening into "So bad it's funny" territory, which is fine, but I have to admit that it is starting to test my "guilty pleasure" threshold.  Watching it with Voodoo is where most of my enjoyment is coming from this season.

My wife has told me she's done with watching Heroes.  "This seems a lot like the previous seasons."  Then she goes on to point out the same dopey heroes making the same dopey mistakes and the fact that MAYJAH was so prevalent in the first episode.

I'm not sure I can watch this alone.

[voodoolily]

the fact that MAYJAH was so prevalent in the first episode.

I love how she goes from being a FOB to being fluent in English (with no accent) in only one season.

[NiX]

Blah, people took what I said as thinking Hiro did kill Ando. I'm just pointing out that it's god awful story telling. Most of it is. Nikki was created? Sylar the brother?

Thank god Dexter and Entourage are still

[Jeff Kelly]

Only the NBC edition of Heroes had the narrator by the way. The canadian and syndicated broadcasts had the standard 'previously on heroes' intro.

Seems to me that NBC is getting a bit nervous.

[Nerf]

If they were just going to kill mayjah (is that really how they spell her fucking name?) off, they really should have done it last season, before she started wearing skimpy clothing and everyone realized she was smoking hot.  Now instead of cheering that they finally got rid of the emo-death chick, I find myself a bit sad that she won't be prancing around in skimpy outfits anymore.  I'm so conflicted.

[Venkman]

lol.

Episode was weak. They've gone from telling a story to perpetuating actor(ress) contracts. It always sucks when it happens but at least it's obvious a mile away. They realized their base wasn't big enough, or wasn't growing enough or some shit, so focus group'd their way into simpler storyline, transparent twists and change for the sake of change just to occasionally interest those otherwise chatting with their kids/spouse/friends or folding laundry or some crap. They just need to move this to around 3pm, or whatever slot doesn't compete with Oprah.

I'll catch this thread weekly and maybe watch the episode if anyone notes anything is worth tuning in for.

[Samwise]

Or he could have stopped time as soon as he touched the sword to him, then told him the plan. Hiro didn't stab Ando that quickly.

Can Hiro bring other people up to speed while he has time stopped?  I'm pretty sure that only worked on "Out of This World."   

[Slyfeind]

Or he could have stopped time as soon as he touched the sword to him, then told him the plan. Hiro didn't stab Ando that quickly.

Can Hiro bring other people up to speed while he has time stopped?  I'm pretty sure that only worked on "Out of This World."   

No, but he can touch them, then stop time. My feeling is he touched the sword to Ando, stopped time, they both went for sake, chatted about how they were going to fool the Bad Guys, got a retractable sword and some fake blood, had lunch, went back, rehearsed it a few times, then unstopped time and went "Behold You Must Be Sacrifice Ando." "No Hiro You Has Betrayed Me."

[Samwise]

I don't remember him ever doing the "touch someone, stop time" trick before.  Remember when he was trying to convince Charlie that he could really stop time, and he had to do all these little tricks to convince her?  If he could have just stopped time with her, no problem.  I seem to remember him having similar problems with Ando at some point.

The only two people I can remember him ever being able to talk to with time stopped are Daphne and Peter, both of whom have their own abilities that allow them to manipulate time.