Squaresoft gets off of lazy ass, finally improves FFXI.

[Kitsune]

Here is a link to the new patch notes.  For lazy people, quick summary:

1. CoH-style ability for higher-levels to drop down to be able to play with lower-levels and gain experience for it, so that guild-folks can actually play together without involving one person just sitting around as the max-level healer to powerlevel the lowbies.  Powerleveling will still happen, of course, but this at least is way less boring.

2. Chocobos can be used in the latest expansion areas, where previously one had to walk everywhere.

3. Moogles are set up in two of the lowbie zones, Selbina and Mhaura, to allow people to go and switch their classes without having to hoof off to a major city to do so.

4. AUTOMATIC INVENTORY STACKING  Which is about fucking time.

5. More experience given for fighting weaker monsters.  Now, 'weaker' is relative, here.  A monster that reads as being "an even match" can pretty often murder the fuck out of a solo player, depending on their job.  Monsters that con as "a decent challenge" or even "easy prey" are closer to being in-line with a solo fight, but gave crap experience.  Boosting the experience for these monsters is basically giving a helping hand to soloing people, as parties will often be aiming at high-end monsters for the most experience.  FFXI is about as solo-friendly as Everquest, in that downtime when soloing can be harsh, but at least this way soloing people aren't getting a slap in the face whenever they win a fight.

6. Tutorial NPCs in the starting cities to actually tell people how to play.  That's something that was very much a needed boost; FFXI has to be one of the most crushingly newbie-unfriendly games ever.  The players themselves are friendly, but the mechanics are very much not.

[Edit: Some of these improvements are from the last update, and thus won't be listed in the patch notes above.]

[Trippy]

What's the death penalty like these days?

[Kitsune]

What's the death penalty like these days?

Not bad.  Annoying, in that there's a death penalty, but you can usually recoup lost experience in about two decent fights.  Repeated wipes are still enough to piss people off, but the occasional death is easy to shrug off.

[Venkman]

Are these changes to attract new players in serious numbers (not the trickle any game enjoys) or more for the base?

[Kitsune]

I think it's less to attract new players so much as it is to avoid driving off new players.  The new player experience in FFXI was seriously akin to being beaten with dead fish.  The game has a pretty considerable bit of depth, as with any MMOG, but new players were basically getting, "Here's your map, monsters that way, good luck!"  New players didn't even have a weapon equipped or spells memorized to start with; if you went outside without knowing how to open your inventory and sort things out, you'd find yourself flailing around unarmed at things.

That shitty start drove me right the hell away the first time I tried the game; the only reason it didn't do so a second time around was that the game's community had grown enough to have good wiki and forum support for people with questions.

[Draegan]

When I tried this game the UI is what drove me away after trying to fight a few mobs.

[tmp]

They still don't have free trial, do they..?

[Cyrrex]

They do...at least, I picked up a "free trial" for 2 bucks (the cost of the CD and package, presumably) at Gamestop.  Saving it for a rainy day when I was really bored, so this posted has piqued my interest a little.

[tmp]

They do...at least, I picked up a "free trial" for 2 bucks (the cost of the CD and package, presumably) at Gamestop.  Saving it for a rainy day when I was really bored, so this posted has piqued my interest a little.

Haven't seen anything like that in the local game store, guess that's due to living too far east from borders of western civilization.

When meantime with games like WoW and EVE [edit -- and pretty much any other i've checked that's been around for a year+] the provider can actually be arsed to put link to free trial download straight on their main page... well. just saying.

[Lantyssa]

5. More experience given for fighting weaker monsters.  Now, 'weaker' is relative, here.  A monster that reads as being "an even match" can pretty often murder the fuck out of a solo player, depending on their job.  Monsters that con as "a decent challenge" or even "easy prey" are closer to being in-line with a solo fight, but gave crap experience.  Boosting the experience for these monsters is basically giving a helping hand to soloing people, as parties will often be aiming at high-end monsters for the most experience.  FFXI is about as solo-friendly as Everquest, in that downtime when soloing can be harsh, but at least this way soloing people aren't getting a slap in the face whenever they win a fight.

Is it enough to really solo or duo though?  I know a ton of people who really, really wanted to like this game, but reached about level 10 and gave up in disgust.

[Reg]

Moogles in Selbina is HUGE. Half the horror of the Dunes was not being able to find a res if you forgot to set your spawn point there and would end up an hour's walk away when you respawned.  Now, a friend or party member can just dash to Seilbina and switch over to a high level healer and take care of things.

[Dren]

Is it enough to really solo or duo though?  I know a ton of people who really, really wanted to like this game, but reached about level 10 and gave up in disgust.

Count me as one of those.  I actually reached something like level 30+ in my main job with several secondaries started.  It really was an EQ experience once I decided to quit.  It was for the exact same reason.  I couldn't do anything unless I spent over 1.5 hours per session and it always involved grouping up with people and sitting in one spot pulling one mob after another.  I'd say FFXI was worse in that the mobs we fought were way way harder per pull and they were things like small crabs and hares.

The feeling of weakness and insignificance was palpable in that game.  I really don't like that in a game.

Outside of that, they had some really nice systems in place.  The artwork was beautiful.  The gameplay was extremely polished well before WoW hit the scene.  The cut-scenes were very interesting and pulled you into the lore like no other MMO has done for me.  The job system was brilliant.  The housing was quite good even though you were limited to basically a one room apartment.  The idea of placing certain furniture a certain way for added buffs, etc. was great.  The gardening system was interesting.  Badges and other neat items placed in your room did different things.  I'm sure I'm missing a lot of things.

It had a treasure trove of great ideas.  The grind just crushed all that to dust.  Oh, travel times sucked too.  I see that still is an issue that they are band-aiding still.

[Kitsune]

If anyone does want to fire up the demo, let me know.  I can get new players a golden worldpass that gives them various free crap in-game.  It's nothing world-changing; a stack of free chocobo ride coupons and some room decoration stuff over time if you actually sign up, but being able to use chocobos before level 20 can be a very comfy time-saver when riding out to some of the more distant low-level areas.

[LC]

What they should do is fix their horrible customer support, account system, and billing system. I activated one of those free trials once, and played for like 30 minutes before quitting. I never gave them any kind of credit card information. So they decided to email me a bill for 8 months of subscription fees 9 months later.

[Koyasha]

I'm actually considering playing this again, couple friends are giving it another go and telling me about some of the changes.  A couple important things I thought I'd note.

The, as I believe the term is, 'Level Sync' is in fact better than CoH's mentor system.  First off, anyone who played FFXI will recall dropping levels was routine when entering level capped fights such as BCNM's.  This however required players to keep entire extra suits of equipment, because if you were wearing equipment with a higher level requirement, it wouldn't scale down - it would simply be unequipped.  Now, it scales.  Second, unlike CoH, in FFXI the higher level still gets experience, not just money/debt removal (since there is no debt).  FFXI's leveling curve, numerically, has always been quite smooth, making this pretty easy.  A high level character can continue leveling up at a reasonable pace while level synced down to a lower level.

Seems like FFXI is taking out the old 'beat you with a rusty pipe' mechanics, while keeping the difficulty up instead of making it astonishingly easy like most modern MMOG's.

One other random thing that impresses me is the amount of data they give about their player base.  The Vana'diel Census gives heaps of information on player activity, numbers, etc.  Exact numbers on percentages of players with certain job combinations, races, login time...  They have a section where they give data on how their GM calls are distributed.

[Cadaverine]

I gave it a go again about a month ago.  Rolled up a black mage.  Got to level 4 after a couple hours.  Died shortly after getting to level 4, and de-leveled back to level 3.  Logged out, and uninstalled immediately.  I suffered through that shit for far too long in EQ, there's no way in hell I'm gonna do it now.

[Seanzor]

This game is objectively awful, and anyone playing it is objectively stupid.

[Koyasha]

I gave it a go again about a month ago.  Rolled up a black mage.  Got to level 4 after a couple hours.  Died shortly after getting to level 4, and de-leveled back to level 3.  Logged out, and uninstalled immediately.  I suffered through that shit for far too long in EQ, there's no way in hell I'm gonna do it now.

Deleveling is one of my favorite mechanics, and games that don't actually make you lose exp lose points on that massively, in my opinion.  My experience seems to show less (not none, but far less) idiots at high levels, if you actually have to not die often in order to gain levels.  I dislike the trend of making games (and not just MMO's - all games) easier and easier.  I liked having a limited number of lives and continues in old games, and having to start over from the beginning if I used them all up, and it's a mechanic I don't think I've seen in years.

[Sunbury]

      

Awaiting standard responses (typically referring to damaging one's own private parts) to 'games should be hard' type post...

[Seanzor]

I liked having a limited number of lives and continues in old games, and having to start over from the beginning if I used them all up, and it's a mechanic I don't think I've seen in years.

Gee, I wonder why that might be?
edit: oops.

[Margalis]

[I liked having a limited number of lives and continues in old games, and having to start over from the beginning if I used them all up, and it's a mechanic I don't think I've seen in years.

I just beat Lords of Thunder and I loved that part of the game. For a old style game without a ton of content what else are you going to do? Either limit lives and continues or make the game based on score/time attack.

As far as FFXI goes, the bad part of dying is waiting for a res (at lower levels) and waiting to get back up to full strength. A good party will continue with one member down but an average one will just wait around. The amount of XP you lose is fairly irrelevant compared to the opportunity cost. And now that there is a moogle at Selbina the single most annoying place to die has been fixed.

XP loss is frustrating if you solo alot just because of how innefficient soloing is in general. Kill 10 guys, die to a decent challenge and you're back to square one. But in groups the XP loss is pretty irrelevant. Up to level 30 or so you can earn back the XP lost to a death in 4 minutes in an average group.

This message has been brought to you by the fine folks at Square Enix. Play Final Fantasy XI today!

[tmp]

My experience seems to show less (not none, but far less) idiots at high levels, if you actually have to not die often in order to gain levels.

The ones who make it to the top under such system are still idiots alright, just a different kind.

[TheCastle]

Sorry I know this is a bit of a necro bump.
However I am one of these different kinds of idiots who made it to the top hehe....

Anyway some speculation suggests they SE is possibly going to add a new way for lower level players to gain xp this December.

From SE themselves

We're pleased to announce that the next FINAL FANTASY XI version update is on track for an early December release. In addition to the long-awaited continuation of the epic Wings of the Goddess mission arc, this patch will also feature new content designed with low-level players in mind, brand-new systems unlike anything you've seen in Vana'diel before, and much, much more!

This could mean a quested xp system or something really off beat. Logic dictates to me at least that the only thing lower level players care about is gaining XP.

Is it enough to really solo or duo though?  I know a ton of people who really, really wanted to like this game, but reached about level 10 and gave up in disgust.

Yes, Solo and duo are viable ways to level however it does not solve the problem that many people get bored just grinding mobs. grinding mobs alone for hours on end feels far worse than getting a duo and working as a team.

Death penalty is a bit of a joke these days as well since easy pray mobs give about 70-90 xp and because of the new additions to signet you can basically mow through them with ease. at higher levels though getting killed sucks more however you will be doing a lot of campaign and such while seeking so death incurs zero penalty when you have your tags up. Campaign is a PVE type of RVR system that is quite interesting to see in action.

And in the case of being a level 75 your average merit party can pull in around 15-20k xp per hour ( sometimes 25k per hour ) while the penalty for death with out a raise is closer to 2.5k. If you get a raise it cuts the penalty in half. raise 3 cuts 90% of the penalty. As my 75 whm death is almost meaningless especially since I have nearly capped merits. You cannot delevel below level 5 I believe, you do not lose xp for the first 5 levels if I recall.

If you have any questions about this somewhat offbeat game feel free to shoot.

[Reg]

Are SE making these changes hoping to attract new players or just to keep existing players by making it easier for them to level lower level jobs?

[TheCastle]

Are SE making these changes hoping to attract new players or just to keep existing players by making it easier for them to level lower level jobs?

Its hard to say really.
While I can tell you that the level sync feature is an absolute godsend for people of all levels its still not a very useful feature to Joe Walmart who just picked up the game and doesn't even know how to chat let alone group. I still feel that on a design level FFXI is unforgivably hard and most of all confusing to new players. Over the weekend I was able level my drg from 24 to 33 in a duo with my dads level 44 dnc. His dnc ding 50 as my drg hit 33. However, what good is the feature if you have no friends to level with?

When it comes to SE its hard to really know what they are doing or where they are taking things. Maybe its the language barrier or cultural differences. It makes sense to make the early levels faster and easier, and they did make it really fast, for both old and new players. Making it easier to level support jobs is a huge bonus for old players. So it is a tough call to say if its to bring new players or not. I would say a little of both on this maybe.

What I can tell you is that SE added moogles to Selbina and Mhaura are somewhat worthless additions now that soloing to level 20 is about as difficult now as it was to solo to 10 4 years ago... That eliminates the need for those places to even be a point of interest. Not only that but you can outpost warp to these locations in less than a minute. The moogles are a bit of a joke now. we needed them 4 years ago not now lol...

They DID however make it easier to get support job items for the sub job quest. They also made the first couple limit break quests very easy now. That indicates that they want new blood.

However I would have to say that if they add a questable XP system into the game that would be a pretty strong indication they want some new blood.

Anyway I suppose I could have just answered you question by saying that I am not sure what they are doing they are so all over the place updating almost random things.

[Reg]

Thanks for all the extra info. I played FFXI for a few months years ago and I honestly did enjoy it but the forced grouping got to me after a while. Hearing news like this tempts me to resubscribe again.

[TheCastle]

Thanks for all the extra info. I played FFXI for a few months years ago and I honestly did enjoy it but the forced grouping got to me after a while. Hearing news like this tempts me to resubscribe again.

The December update that should have some cool stuff

ill post info on it.
A decent quest for xp system would round things out enough where I might actually recommend the game to other people. Right now it still feels very nitch to me where if someone doesnt already know what it is I would tell them to play Warhammer or WOW instead for a better experience.

In its current state I feel like its not quite there for me openly recommend others play it IMHO.
I know it sounds strange considering I have been playing for 5 years. I tend to agree with a lot of the negative criticisms that the game has received. However SE has been improving the game and if they play their cards right maybe this December its possible the game can just might even pass as mainstream lol...

time will tell

[Ubvman]

Thanks for all the extra info. I played FFXI for a few months years ago and I honestly did enjoy it but the forced grouping got to me after a while. Hearing news like this tempts me to resubscribe again.

As a casual player, whats the inside story on this FFXI incident?
http://kotaku.com/5036371/final-fantasy-xi-boss-takes-at-least-18-hours-to-beat

Clueless raiders or sadistic devs?
As a refugee from the 24 hour old school EQ1 Plane of Fear raids - I am inclined to believe the sadism aspect. Super grindcore MMOGs are not for me anymore - not after EQ1 and not after playing WoW. Something that I am at least grateful to Blizzard for - with WoW, I did not feel like the end target for some dev's hateful spite (well since I am just a casual player now - no more grinds) - something that EQ1 had an all too prevalent feel to it.

[UnSub]

It was an untested trial of content that got sent live. They fixed it a while back, promised not to do it again.

[TheCastle]

Thanks for all the extra info. I played FFXI for a few months years ago and I honestly did enjoy it but the forced grouping got to me after a while. Hearing news like this tempts me to resubscribe again.

As a casual player, whats the inside story on this FFXI incident?
http://kotaku.com/5036371/final-fantasy-xi-boss-takes-at-least-18-hours-to-beat

Clueless raiders or sadistic devs?
As a refugee from the 24 hour old school EQ1 Plane of Fear raids - I am inclined to believe the sadism aspect. Super grindcore MMOGs are not for me anymore - not after EQ1 and not after playing WoW. Something that I am at least grateful to Blizzard for - with WoW, I did not feel like the end target for some dev's hateful spite (well since I am just a casual player now - no more grinds) - something that EQ1 had an all too prevalent feel to it.

It was bad design
basically dumb devs who for some reason never expected that the behaviors of the monster give the false illusion of progression.
One thing that SE seems to like doing is making a final boss that requires a very obscure secret for it to be defeated. Absolute virtue was the first of these types of monsters and it was basically never defeated legitimately since its creation. IMHO its debatable if a kraken drk zerg is really legitimate when its the only method you have to beat the monster. Pandemonium Warden is the second such monster that requires a very obscure method for him to be defeated.

What ended up happening was SE created a perfect storm that just so happened to trick people into fighting it for extended time.
In most likely one of the most sick boss battles I have ever read about people actually did not know about the need for a secret trick.
Since unlike Absolute virtue who normally destroys an entire alliance once he gets bored fighting you Pandemonium Warden would change forms after its current form is defeated.

So it gave an illusion that "We defeated this form and it took about an hour, oh crap here comes the next form!"
Multiply this by twenty because you do not know the super secret trick and you have an 18 hour boss battle.

Add icing to the shit cake.. The ZNM system is a casual end game model where every boss leading up to Pandemonium warden is force spawned by using special items in key locations gained by taking pictures of monsters around the world using a camera!

So if you want to add additional lulz a Pokemon meta game contributed a bit in giving the illusion of a somewhat casual last boss! lol...
The disparity between the bosses leading up to PW and PW himself monolithic and that's not even counting the super secret trick.

In the end Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden are not meant to be fought longer than 2 hours at the most. In fact I believe they simply despawn now if you don't beat them in that time....

[Velorath]

Thanks for all the extra info. I played FFXI for a few months years ago and I honestly did enjoy it but the forced grouping got to me after a while. Hearing news like this tempts me to resubscribe again.

Even if they made soloing as viable in FFXI as it is in most modern MMO's, they'd need to make some massive adjustments to the UI (which was clunky and shitty even when it was new) to get me to ever think about trying the game again.

[TheCastle]

Even if they made soloing as viable in FFXI as it is in most modern MMO's, they'd need to make some massive adjustments to the UI (which was clunky and shitty even when it was new) to get me to ever think about trying the game again.

Its particularly bad if you run the game in 1600x1200 like I do.
I also play the game with a PS2 controller on my PC lol...

edit: Also soloing is viable now but not as viable as it is in most modern MMOs. Right now Duo or 2 person xp laying waste to easy and decent mobs is however remarkably good. Solo is very hit or miss still.

I recently stumbled on to something they might have ninja added to the game. Sigil, the most recent expansion version of signet, now has an option for a very low cost to further reduce xp loss on death. These are areas that have xp worthy monsters from all level ranges. However yet again, accessing these areas is not something you will do as a new player, SE for some reason never manages to make things better for brand new players... You literaly have to be level 50+ just to not be a dead weight in a campaign battle.

They should seriously just make it so as a new player the first 30 levels of the game you have auto-regen, 1 tic refresh, 15% xp bonus no xp loss on death ect..

anyway...
There have been a bunch of changes announced for the game recently. Anyone care enough for me to stick the info here? If not don't worry about it...

[TheCastle]

Ok THIS is interesting news.

The Adventure Continues With Three All-New FINAL FANTASY XI Expansion Chapters!
*Available for online purchase only

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/
http://www.playonline.com/ff11fr/addon/
http://www.playonline.com/ff11de/addon/

■Masato Kato, who oversaw the original plot conception on FINAL FANTASY XI from initial release up through the Rise of the Zilart expansion, will also play a key role in the creation of this new series of installments.
■The first installment, A Crystalline Prophecy – Ode of Life Bestowing, is slated for release for all languages and platforms in Spring of next year. Subsequent installments will then follow, being released in intervals of every few months.
These expansions packages will only be available through online purchase via PlayOnline. The projected cost for each installment is around $10.00.

Unlike its predecessors, such as Treasures of Aht Urghan and Wings of the Goddess, this original series of expansion packages will be distributed exclusively as online add-ons. Players may rest assured, however, that version updates for the Wings of the Goddess expansion will still continue for some time. Concurrent with the regular version updates, the new expansions are being developed as a with a “novelette” approach. Indeed, a separate development team has been established specifically for these new expansions.

Additional Scenarios?
Up until now, expansion packs have generally been developed from a perspective of “lateral expansion,” focusing namely on the introduction of new areas. These three new expansions, however, will deepen the storylines running through pre-existing areas by ushering in all-new plots and intrigues. While not necessarily containing as much content as traditional expansions, these episodic scenarios are designed to take anywhere from one to two months to complete.


Target Levels?
Though the quests can easily be started by a solo player somewhere in the vicinity of level 30, they will tend to become more difficult as the storyline progresses. By the end, completion of the quests will likely require a party of level 75 characters, with the rewards being geared towards high-level players as well.
Players can engage in these new storylines simultaneously with any of the missions from preceding expansions without conflict.

This is particularly strange.
SE appears to be changing its business model a tad. They CLAIM that this wont result in power creep however I remain somewhat skeptical. You see people wont purchase these mini expansions if the data mined results are not attractive enough. They have also chose to do this at a time when the latest expansion has been considered by many to be the least finished 1 year after its release when compared to all other expansions.

Interesting move for SE at this point. I suspect this might be the first big shark jump of the game!
Sinking ship?
Wonder how it will turn out....

and on a another note..

The Second Scenario!

http://blog.square-enix.com/ff11/2008/11/post_300.html

■Version Update Plans (cont.)
“Fields of Valor”
Fields of Valor is a new in-game system which has been a long time in the coming. By using an item called a “Field Manual” near outposts or in close vicinity to cities, players may undertake quests to fell a designated number of certain beasts. Completion of these hunting quests will net players experience points. This may prove the perfect small-scale endeavor for players waiting for a party invite, or mayhap on those occasions when you might not have quite enough time to join a leveling party, but still want to spend a little time having fun.
※Please not that monsters must yield experience in order to be constitute confirmed kills.
※Fields of Valor quests may be flagged once per Vana’diel day—a relatively short waiting period compared to other in-game events.

【Treasure Caskets】
Following the conclusion of combat, a “Treasure Casket” will appear to bring a little bit of cheer to the hunt-weary adventurer.
These treasure caskets may contain two types of rewards: temporary items and regular items. The goods which players receive will differ according to the area they are in, but for the most part will consist of items such as medicines to aid them in battle, and, for the luckiest of souls, exclusive gear which can only be obtained on the hunt!
The two in-game systems detailed above will be introduced in the December version update, and do not require the installation of any expansion packs. They will subsequently be built upon and eventually move into other areas as well, with precedence being given to public favorites.

Quested experience point system that is solo friendly and offers gear for the effort.
Also not attached to expansion areas so I ascertain new players will be able to take advantage of the system.

It appears that the quests will only be kill X number of mobs and can be repeated once every hour. A very simplistic quest system when compared to what is found in WOW. However it will potentially allow people of all level ranges to join together and complete the same quest together with out any problems.
hmm

Another thing coming this December is a "Make your own dungeon system as well"

Square seems to be getting VERY unpredictable lately.

[Reg]

Anyone care enough for me to stick the info here? If not don't worry about it...

Keep the updates coming. It's not like you're attracting mockery with info about SWG.  FFXI is still a real game.

[TheCastle]

Anyone care enough for me to stick the info here? If not don't worry about it...

Keep the updates coming. It's not like you're attracting mockery with info about SWG.  FFXI is still a real game.

I like how the title of the thread still fits even though it started in September talking about different updates lol...