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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: Quick [tech] Questions Thread 0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Quick [tech] Questions Thread  (Read 1186497 times)
Azazel
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Posts: 7735


Reply #1190 on: September 07, 2009, 02:23:18 AM

If I get a wireless access point, I can just connect it via RJ-45 to my existing D-Link router and everything wireless connected to it will work without a ton of dicking around? And I can secure it?

I don't get you on the switch thing?

Actually, I don't get the wireless bridge thing either.


Sorry, I just don't fully understand this kind of networking stuff. I'm pretty much just used to plug and play with ethernet, except now I have more devices than plugs, and an aversion to having 4 cables snaking across the livingroom floor.

This is also in anticipation of getting a PS3 in the next couple of months as well, and wanting to network that as well.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2009, 02:28:31 AM by Azazel »

http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Trippy
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Reply #1191 on: September 07, 2009, 02:44:25 AM

If I get a wireless access point, I can just connect it via RJ-45 to my existing D-Link router and everything wireless connected to it will work without a ton of dicking around?
Yes you just connect it to a RJ-45 port. I've never configured a separate wireless access point (one not part of the router) before but it shouldn't be hard.

Quote
And I can secure it?
Yes as long as it supports MAC address whitelists and WPA2 (do not use WPA-TKIP) though wireless is still not as secure as a wired connection.

Quote
I don't get you on the switch thing?
Wireless routers typically only have 4 or less RJ-45 ports. You have at least 5 wired devices. So you need a switch to provide the extra ports if you went with the single wireless router option I described above.

Quote
Actually, I don't get the wireless bridge thing either.
Think of a bridge as a really dumb router that only knows how to forward packets to one place: the router it's connected to. You could setup multiple routers on your network (as full routers) but that's an unneeded complexity if you only need one LAN network.

Edit: this is also why I suggested a single wireless router (+switch) solution rather than having router and a bridge. Things are easier to configure and understand that way.

« Last Edit: September 07, 2009, 03:06:29 AM by Trippy »
Azazel
Contributor
Posts: 7735


Reply #1192 on: September 07, 2009, 04:54:08 AM

OK that makes it simpler.

And I can secure it?
Yes as long as it supports MAC address whitelists and WPA2 (do not use WPA-TKIP) though wireless is still not as secure as a wired connection.

I do not understand the first part. Any specific tips to keep the network as secure as possible?


Quote
Wireless routers typically only have 4 or less RJ-45 ports. You have at least 5 wired devices. So you need a switch to provide the extra ports if you went with the single wireless router option I described above.

But the switch doesn't literally mean a switch that's toggled. It's a term, like "router", correct?


Quote
Think of a bridge as a really dumb router that only knows how to forward packets to one place: the router it's connected to. You could setup multiple routers on your network (as full routers) but that's an unneeded complexity if you only need one LAN network.

Edit: this is also why I suggested a single wireless router (+switch) solution rather than having router and a bridge. Things are easier to configure and understand that way.

I get you there, I just don't want to bin my existing router which has worked without a hitch. I just want to "add on" some wirelessness. Come to think of it. I actually want to keep 6 devices wired. 3 desktops, 360, XBMC and a wire for my mate's laptop



Actually - Option B - Staying Wired?
Is it possible to, say, unplug the RJ45 cable that links my 360 to my router on the 360's side and plug in a switch/router/magic box in the home entertainment unit, and then run a bunch of short RJ-45 cables to the second 360/PS3/Wii/etc?

So one end in the router, one end in a "hub"(switch/whatever), and the consoles all connected to the "hub".

Would the consoles all still have their own network identities and work online/offline together? I'm wanting to set up my second 360 as a machine for my wife on the second TV in the lounge, so we can play system-link co-op games via LAN, or even via XBL.

If you could let me know what I actually would need to buy for the wireless option, and/or the wired option (if it is actually doable). I'd probably prefer the wired option, actually.

http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/default.php?cPath=67_103
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 07:00:14 AM by Yegolev »

http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Trippy
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Posts: 23612


Reply #1193 on: September 07, 2009, 06:12:19 AM

And I can secure it?
Yes as long as it supports MAC address whitelists and WPA2 (do not use WPA-TKIP) though wireless is still not as secure as a wired connection.
I do not understand the first part. Any specific tips to keep the network as secure as possible?
Every Ethernet adapter has a global unique identifier -- its MAC address. By entering the MAC addresses of your devices into a "white list" on the wireless bridge/router only those MAC addresses will be able to connect. Note that you can "spoof" MAC addresses so this isn't a guarantee to lock out non-authorized devices from using your wireless connection.

Quote
Quote
Wireless routers typically only have 4 or less RJ-45 ports. You have at least 5 wired devices. So you need a switch to provide the extra ports if you went with the single wireless router option I described above.
But the switch doesn't literally mean a switch that's toggled. It's a term, like "router", correct?
It's more like an old fashioned telephone switchboard than a toggle but toggle works as well depending on how you define the word but none of that is important really (though I end up explaining below). Just think of it as box you can use to increase the number of RJ-45 ports you can use to connect things to your router with.

Quote
Actually - Option B - Staying Wired?
Is it possible to, say, unplug the RJ45 cable that links my 360 to my router on the 360's side and plug in a switch/router/magic box in the home entertainment unit, and then run a bunch of short RJ-45 cables to the second 360/PS3/Wii/etc?

So one end in the router, one end in a "hub"(switch/whatever), and the consoles all connected to the "hub".
In technical terms a hub is different than a switch. A hub broadcasts all packets going through the hub to all ports on the hub. A switch only sends the packets addressed to a particular device on a port to that port (hence the telephone switchboard metaphor). Unless you happen to need to do some packet sniffing on a separate box you'll want to get a switch instead of a hub for performance reasons.

If you've run out of RJ-45 ports on your router and every device you want to hook up to it is within reasonable cable length then yes all you have to do is get an Ethernet switch, plug a cable between it and the router and then plug whatever extra devices you want into the switch. I'd recommend getting a Gigabit Ethernet switch if you can afford it if you have more than one device that uses Gigabit Ethernet just for the performance boost. Note, though, that if your router's Ethernet ports aren't Gigabit Ethernet you'll need to move all your Gigabit Ethernet devices onto the Gigabit switch. The non-Gigabit devices can stay on the router or you can move them to the switch, the switch doesn't care (you can mix speeds on it).

Quote
Would the consoles all still have their own network identities and work online/offline together? I'm wanting to set up my second 360 as a machine for my wife on the second TV in the lounge, so we can play system-link co-op games via LAN, or even via XBL.
Adding a switch is conceptually just like adding additional Ethernet ports onto your router (ignoring the Gigabit Ethernet part of things). You don't need to configure the switch or anything, it just works.

Quote
If you could let me know what I actually would need to buy for the wireless option, and/or the wired option (if it is actually doable). I'd probably prefer the wired option, actually.

http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/default.php?cPath=67_103
If you don't have any Gigabit Ethernet devices these would work fine for a pure wired solution:

http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=67_103&products_id=14504
http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=67_103&products_id=14619

You can drop down the 5 port models if you only need 3 extra ports.

If you do have more than one thing with Gigabit Ethernet you'll want something like these:

http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=67_103&products_id=14562
http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=67_103&products_id=14606

or the 8-port model if you need more than 3 extra ports.

To figure out how many ports you need on your switch you count of the wired devices you want to connect. Then you count the ports on your router. If the router has fewer ports than you need then the formula is:

Total devices to connect wired <= (Ports on router - 1) + (Ports on switch - 1)

Connecting a switch to your router uses up a port on each device, hence the "-1"s. E.g. if your router has 4 ports and the switch has 5 ports then you can connect a total of 7 devices. An 8-port switch would allow up to 10 devices (4 + 8 - 2).


If you wanted to go wireless I would need to know if you have any Wireless-N devices before I could recommend something from that site.
Chimpy
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Reply #1194 on: September 07, 2009, 08:42:14 AM

If you wanted to connect the Wii with a wire, you would need to buy a USB ethernet adapter. Of course, unless you already have the XBox wireless adaptor, you would need to buy that to connect the XBox wirelessly. You can run ethernet wiring pretty much any distance in a typical home as the maximum segment length is 100meters. I have never heard of anyone using one of those USB-ethernet adapters for the Wii, but every customer I have dealt with who has an X-Box connected to our networks wirelessly has had problems. The 360 wireless adapter is about 3x the price of those Wii adapters too.

If you are looking for wireless anyway, but want wired to all the contraptions on your entertainment center, I would probably run one cable along the walls (you can buy cable by the foot from many places, in a variety of colors and either put ends on yourself, or take it into a computer store and they can probably do it for you for a couple bucks) and buy a wireless router to put on the entertainment center. Then I would turn all the routing functions off on it if you are liking your existing router.

I think Trippy and I could both probably come up with half a dozen elegant solutions to your problem. I think we probably need to know more of how much you want to spend to get a better idea.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Azazel
Contributor
Posts: 7735


Reply #1195 on: September 08, 2009, 01:16:06 AM

Prerferring at this point to not spend too much money -
The house is a rental, and the computers and router are on a diagonal to the area in the living room where the TV and consoles are. We've got one cable and that's managable, I just want to avoid multiples, so having a switch over at the home entertainment unit is the best solution at this stage. My concern with a switch was that it would be like trying to share one of the router's ip addresses into several devices, but if as Trippy says it's just like adding more ports, than that it the ideal solution for the time being (until we move).

I think I'll stick with my 7-port router and just buy the 8-point switch and keep it over near the consoles. Buy the ethernet adaptor for the Wii and be done with it (I'd either have to wireless the 360 or wire the Wii) until I'm setting up my new house. At that point I can look at Gigabit Ethernet stuff - this PC I am typing on has it, not sure about the wife's PC, but we'll buy a new PC shortly afer we move anyway and so just get a gigabit router then.

Once we've got the new house, it'll be time to start cabling up the walls and everything in sight.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? DRILLING AND MANLINESS

I assume none of the 360/ps3/wii use Gigabit?


http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Trippy
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Posts: 23612


Reply #1196 on: September 08, 2009, 03:08:54 AM

The PS3, as has been the case, has the better hardware and does in fact have Gigabit Ethernet. The Xbox 360 only has Fast Ethernet (100 Mbps) and the Wii's USB Ethernet Adapter is also Fast Ethernet (USB 2.0 isn't fast enough to support Gigabit Ethernet, 480 Mbps is the limit of USB 2.0).
Yegolev
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Reply #1197 on: September 08, 2009, 07:01:47 AM

TKIP has a lot of problems or is just not as good as WPA2?

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Trippy
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Reply #1198 on: September 08, 2009, 07:09:03 AM

WPA/TKIP can supposedly be cracked in less than a minute now.
Yegolev
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Reply #1199 on: September 08, 2009, 07:31:33 AM

Sigh.  Thanks for the link.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Murgos
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Reply #1200 on: September 08, 2009, 09:10:29 AM

WPA/TKIP can supposedly be cracked in less than a minute now.

I'm not sure if I'm reading that right but it appears to me that the proposed attack requires that the client be out of range of the access point or otherwise cutoff from the access point.

If you're just worried about your home network it doesn't look to me like a credible threat but if it's just a matter of clicking WPA2 (or WPA + AES) on the router config then why not just do that?

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Yegolev
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Reply #1201 on: September 08, 2009, 11:44:29 AM

I don't think all of my devices can do WPA2 or AES, I just know TKIP works and I can remember the password I set.  Not that I'm worried too much, really: if someone is close enough to my house to tap my wireless network, I'll be able to see him.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Murgos
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Reply #1202 on: September 08, 2009, 01:21:54 PM

From looking around a little more it appears that if you set your key renewal time for TKIP to 120 seconds it pretty much foils this particular attack.

I don't know how much that will affect connection quality but it seems like a reasonable stopgap for a home network until you get a chance to upgrade.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Trippy
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Reply #1203 on: September 08, 2009, 04:52:52 PM

The researchers of that paper are going to present a practical example of that attack at a conference at the end of September. We'll know more about how you would actually do it "in the wild" then.
Azazel
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Reply #1204 on: September 09, 2009, 01:25:06 AM

Thanks guys, got my wife to pick up a switch and some more patch cables on her way home. Fun weekend of wiring coming soon!


http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Strazos
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The World's Worst Game: Curry or Covid


Reply #1205 on: September 13, 2009, 11:16:07 AM

Really weird one.

Just moved into my new place. Internet connection seems to work fine, but Steam games are having a fit:

World in Conflict just will not launch
TF2 has a hell of a time actually connecting to a server, and when it did, it locked up in less than a hour.
Left 4 Dead will connect, and immediately time out.


No idea what the problem is. Could it be a port block-type of problem? Pings seem to be fine.

Fear the Backstab!
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"Hell is other people." -Sartre
Chimpy
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Reply #1206 on: September 13, 2009, 01:02:20 PM

Who is your ISP/what type of service?


'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Strazos
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Posts: 15542

The World's Worst Game: Curry or Covid


Reply #1207 on: September 13, 2009, 03:51:26 PM

That's a good question. I'll have to ask building management after I fool around with this some more.

I just hope it doesn't bring on unwanted questions.

Fear the Backstab!
"Plato said the virtuous man is at all times ready for a grammar snake attack." - we are lesion
"Hell is other people." -Sartre
schild
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Reply #1208 on: September 14, 2009, 05:48:07 AM

I just hope it doesn't bring on unwanted questions.
I'm wondering, if perhaps, you could be more needlessly paranoid.

What, pray tell, could be an "unwanted question?"

Yegolev
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Reply #1209 on: September 14, 2009, 07:56:41 AM

What, pray tell, could be an "unwanted question?"

"WHERE'S MAH RENT?"

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Murgos
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Posts: 7474


Reply #1210 on: September 14, 2009, 08:23:51 AM

More like, "Do you actually pay have an account with the ISP?"

Cause, you know, it doesn't sound like it.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Strazos
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Posts: 15542

The World's Worst Game: Curry or Covid


Reply #1211 on: September 14, 2009, 04:09:57 PM

Comes with the room.

I just don't want to explain what I am doing with the connection.

Fear the Backstab!
"Plato said the virtuous man is at all times ready for a grammar snake attack." - we are lesion
"Hell is other people." -Sartre
Chimpy
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Reply #1212 on: September 14, 2009, 04:51:09 PM

If it comes with the rent, and the property does not support it themselves, your ISP will have its own policies about how to deal with "what you do." If it is just playing video games, no one at the ISPs (well, except the upper management if you are AT&T) cares, they may ask you what games you are playing to make sure it isn't being mis-categorized in QoS, but other than that they could care less if it is not detrimental to their network as a whole. Generate a ton of traffic which fucks with the stability of their network, and they will probably shut you down without warning.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Strazos
Greetings from the Slave Coast
Posts: 15542

The World's Worst Game: Curry or Covid


Reply #1213 on: September 14, 2009, 08:12:49 PM

Oddly enough, I get home today, and all problems are resolved.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Weird.

Fear the Backstab!
"Plato said the virtuous man is at all times ready for a grammar snake attack." - we are lesion
"Hell is other people." -Sartre
fuser
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Reply #1214 on: September 15, 2009, 02:46:06 PM

Comes with the room.

I just don't want to explain what I am doing with the connection.

Put shoe on head!  why so serious?
RUiN 427
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Reply #1215 on: September 16, 2009, 05:56:06 PM

Thinking about getting a second 360 for another room in my house, for convenience reasons. Wondering if anyone has any experience with xbox live "account roaming" with a memory unit. Looking for an effortless solution for when the lady wants to watch her shows on the big tv and I want to play some games. The information i have found elsewhere is pretty vague. Any help would be appreciated.

"There's been no energy reading of any sort on Cybertron for the past seven hundred or so stellar-cycles."
schild
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Reply #1216 on: September 16, 2009, 05:58:35 PM

Comes with the room.

I just don't want to explain what I am doing with the connection.
Paranoia Paranoia everybody's coming to get me.
Azazel
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Posts: 7735


Reply #1217 on: September 16, 2009, 10:23:24 PM

Thinking about getting a second 360 for another room in my house, for convenience reasons. Wondering if anyone has any experience with xbox live "account roaming" with a memory unit. Looking for an effortless solution for when the lady wants to watch her shows on the big tv and I want to play some games. The information i have found elsewhere is pretty vague. Any help would be appreciated.

I now have 2 360s set up, but I'm not sure what you're asking exactly?

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Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #1218 on: September 17, 2009, 09:45:23 AM

Comes with the room.

I just don't want to explain what I am doing with the connection.
my what do we have here? Hello Kitty
Murgos
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Reply #1219 on: September 17, 2009, 10:46:34 AM

Thinking about getting a second 360 for another room in my house, for convenience reasons. Wondering if anyone has any experience with xbox live "account roaming" with a memory unit. Looking for an effortless solution for when the lady wants to watch her shows on the big tv and I want to play some games. The information i have found elsewhere is pretty vague. Any help would be appreciated.

If you are just trying to log in with your XBOX Live account then, you can just do that.  It will be stored on the HDD and you can log in with it whenever you want.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
RUiN 427
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Posts: 292


Reply #1220 on: September 17, 2009, 11:12:58 AM

Thinking about getting a second 360 for another room in my house, for convenience reasons. Wondering if anyone has any experience with xbox live "account roaming" with a memory unit. Looking for an effortless solution for when the lady wants to watch her shows on the big tv and I want to play some games. The information i have found elsewhere is pretty vague. Any help would be appreciated.

If you are just trying to log in with your XBOX Live account then, you can just do that.  It will be stored on the HDD and you can log in with it whenever you want.

and just use an MU for the game saves and stuff?

"There's been no energy reading of any sort on Cybertron for the past seven hundred or so stellar-cycles."
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Reply #1221 on: September 17, 2009, 11:15:55 AM

Assuming it lets you copy the saves.  Some are bound to be set to not allow copying.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Jobu
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Lord Buttrot


Reply #1222 on: September 18, 2009, 03:41:14 PM

I'm starting to evaluate building a new computer for the wife. Her biggest issue is all the third party cases are all ugly (I generally agree). She likes the candy colored Inspirons you can buy at Dell, but that stuff is a few generations behind (hence the custom build idea).

I found this case online but it's not actually for sale anywhere. The website I linked is horribly outdated, but she instantly fell in love with it. Anyone got any links or ideas on where to find equally "cute" cases?
Venkman
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Reply #1223 on: September 18, 2009, 03:59:46 PM

You sure that's a model and not a CAD rendering? I'm a few years out of practice, but there are things about that image that remind me of the kind of product renderings I used to pump out.

Not that this answers your need of course. Just curious smiley
Jobu
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Lord Buttrot


Reply #1224 on: September 18, 2009, 04:05:21 PM

You sure that's a model and not a CAD rendering? I'm a few years out of practice, but there are things about that image that remind me of the kind of product renderings I used to pump out.

Not that this answers your need of course. Just curious smiley

Pretty sure.

Inside Guts
Also a Doggy variant. It looks like they were all made back in the P4 era.

But really, it's very hard to find cases that aren't marketed to the piano-finished-black-high-end-A/V crowd, or the oversized-silk-anime-flame-shirt crowd.
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