Battleforge - Modern TCG (Yes) by EA (NOOOOOO)

[Ghambit]

Beta is now available to ALL regardless of if you pay for an FP sub. or not.  You just have to be an FP member and willing to stand in line for the DL.  So, no more excuses.
In other news:  they're tweaking their servers in efforts to separate the authentication from the game servers (and some other crap I'm unaware of I'm sure) and they've borked them a bit in doing so it seems, so it MAY be difficult to start a map occasionally, but you'll be able to log in at least.  There was recently a "small" (in their terms) patch that addressed a LOT of stuff; I'd call it a large patch IMO.  Game was pretty bangin before and pretty much it's all gravy and balancing right now.

They're really doing a good job so far it seems.

[Jack9]

I've played the beta for about 20 hours (in total). It's borrrring.

PvP negates the usage of S creatures, focusing on M to L. Resource strangling is the easiest and most effective tactic. Shadow Frost, Shadow Nature, Shadow. The vast majority of cards never see the light of day because they are interesting but ineffecive in any strategy, but also because the balance is screwed. Not Orc shamans are better than Tauren shamans screwed, I mean "look for a filter to remove types that are never supposed to be used" screwed. The poor S squads who are most effective against M are wiped out before doing half damage to every medium i've seen.

The mechanics are variations on the same X concepts, with balance being expressed as fiddling with stats that aren't strategically relevant. Equivalent tier (orbs, then matching orbs) healing per resource is higher than the DD, so people don't use it except to instakill S squads. At the very least, I can agree with the assessment that they just browse the forums and randomly make changes to hear what people say.

The pve scenarios are badly designed, requiring tactics that are outlawed in beta tournament play (stacking construction hut coverage till towers are free) just to win. Forgetting special abilities completely, valuable rares and uncommons all revolve around the concept of M creature powers that are too strong or any M creature that can damage another M creature. This negates the early game and only makes endgame available to the person with the resource advantage (M creatures that do L damage is commonplace).

If they learned how to balance power, evened out creature/damage types, and created some more interesting effect types, fixed and expanded on PvE it wouldn't be terrible. That being said, it would still be a Warcraft3 like RTS with an essentially custom race. Unlike WC3, the (Shadow) NE are better than the (Frost) Humans, even when they use a maphack because balance is based on what the players can figure out. What's left unsaid explicitly is that momentum is never slowed. The first battle wins the game.

At least it's still beta.

// good graphics, interesting concept, swing and a miss, going to play FusionFall

[Aez]

You are right on how the game is played but I think you're confused on the counter system. 

From a dev :

Originally Posted by Thalion 
Weapontypes good vs a specified armor type means it gets a 1,5 multiplicator vs this armor type.
The damage value is the damge an entity deals in 20 seconds (dpts DamagePerTwentySeconds)

Colossus is good vs XL. So it deals 5820 * 1,5 = 8730 dpts vs XL-armored creatures. Grimvine is XL. Grimvine is good VS L, so it has no benefit vs XL-armored creatures and deals only its normal 5800 dpts.

Hope that clarified it a bit.

Normally, if everyone is loaded with M units, you should fill your deck with with bonus dmg to M.  Maybe it doesn't work but that's the theory.  S unit aren't inherently better against M units.

[Falconeer]

I can't play. I create a character and it says disconnected from server. I try creating again and the name is taken (duh!).
I keep creating random generated names chars and it keeps disconnecting before it getrs to the next screen. Then, the random name is taken. No character selection screen whatsoever as it thinks I still have to make a first char but it says that my free deck has been assigned to my first char (which I cannot get access to, of course).

Beta.

[Ghambit]

I can't play. I create a character and it says disconnected from server. I try creating again and the name is taken (duh!).
I keep creating random generated names chars and it keeps disconnecting before it getrs to the next screen. Then, the random name is taken. No character selection screen whatsoever as it thinks I still have to make a first char but it says that my free deck has been assigned to my first char (which I cannot get access to, of course).

Beta.

This is because of what I just posted.  You can login just fine even if the servers are "down."  You can even make it to the Forge, but lately it's been tough actually playing a game.  I got in just fine last night though.

[Jack9]

You are right on how the game is played but I think you're confused on the counter system. 

Normally, if everyone is loaded with M units, you should fill your deck with with bonus dmg to M.

There is no way to do this as the number of cost efficient counters to M (that aren't rare) can be counted on one hand. Most counters are more expensive than simply dropping a random M creature and letting the 2 M creatures slug it out. What's more is that this same scenario is repeated by tier (excepting all L's seem to not be much better than M because many have relatively low hp). Since the only real counters to a creature of size X is another creature of size X, momentum starts at the M level and the early winner is the winner when they start pumping out XL or just strangle the opponents' resources (usually involving a horde of M's and some XLs rampaging) if the player stays to die a slow death. This game does lack the ability to record replays, but oldschool FRAPS battlereports would provide a prettier demonstration of the pattern.

[Ghambit]

There ARE maps where the amount of resources is pretty much even, putting the supply lines far enough back to not be effected in the early game (so player skill in deckbuilding, strat., and tactics plays more of a role).  If a player lets his rear defenses/resources get pwned then he deserves to lose (just like in most RTSs).

Concurrently, there are cards that mitigate resource losses (especially shadow and nature); giving you more of a shot at a quick counterattack (I've done this many times with Shadow).  And then there's direct dmg. and sac. units that can make the opponent pay for every step they take.

... could go on and on arguing, just like any good TCG or RTS - the fact that it's a TCG though means NOTHING is set in stone, which is what has me so excited.  It's not like playing SupCom or Sins and having carbon-copy games over and over only dependent upon which faction you choose.  This is different... there's unlimited variation, not even including the ease of adding new cards in expansions and using upgraded units.

It's a night and day difference IMO.  Not as vanilla as it seems, not even close. (relatively speaking, considering the current crop of RTS and turn-based strat. games).

[Venkman]

Haven't played, not sure I care. But goddamn I love Ghambit's avatar! Damned if for the life of me I can't remember the name of the movie though. Motown and Kung Fu though... odd but easy-to-remember concept.

[Ghambit]

Haven't played, not sure I care. But goddamn I love Ghambit's avatar! Damned if for the life of me I can't remember the name of the movie though. Motown and Kung Fu though... odd but easy-to-remember concept.

Barry Gordy's "The Last Dragon"
Taimak as Bruce Leeroy

[Venkman]

THAT'S right, the Bruce Lee title tie-in and Taimak's Hero.

I have the power (*bad guy's hands shorting out*). Good times!

[schild]

Rez. They're letting you download some of the soundtrack now at www.battleforge.com, and I'm probably going to be doing a But is it Fun for it. Seems they're 5 weeks from release.

[Ghambit]

Rez. They're letting you download some of the soundtrack now at www.battleforge.com, and I'm probably going to be doing a But is it Fun for it. Seems they're 5 weeks from release.

They've had the OST up on EAs pay site for a while, but last time I fooled around on there I caught a virus.  So beware.

In other news, they've been patching away with HUGE patches.  Of late they're wanting us to test the Tome mechanics (the unopened deck matches) and have given us all 6000 pts to do-so.  What I like is the incentive to building Tome decks, since you get extra cards for doing-so.  After the deck has expired the cards go into your main collection so smart players with patience will utilize this.  Not to mention the rewards for Tome victories are higher I believe.  It's really a nice touch to get folk who dont have interest in PvPing more reason to, especially since everyone starts with an unopened pool to build the tome decks from.  So those who bitch about pvp imbalance now you have no reason to.  Granted, those who pwn in Tome matches will have much more powerful cards to pick from in normal PvP (since they'll be upgraded more heavily)... but hey, just like every other MMO you gotta earn your keep.

And as of yesterday's patch now all cards have been released.  So you have a better sampling of the game. 

And looks like they've been fooling with the matchmaking and ranking system, not sure what they've changed though.

[Draegan]

I saw this at NY Comic Con, but didn't get a chance to play.  If I get time I'm going to try it out.

[Ghambit]

As Schild said, here's the link to the free music and an article/video on the sdtk creation process:
http://www.battleforge.com/cms/front_content.php?idcat=10&idart=429

Of note, the soundtrack customizes itself to the deck you construct.  (that's pretty cool)

Of bigger news, after the last big patch the beta is now totally open  You no longer need an FP account or a pre-order key.  The DL link is active on the BF site regardless.  Enjoy!

p.s.
I believe all features except the guild UI are in
edit: although the new sdtk link is different from the beta music... kicks even more ass (hope they use the new stuff in the release)

[schild]

How many people am I going to be playing this with? Does it need it's own forum for deck builds and such? Comes out Monday. I want teammates.

[Hindenburg]

Might give it a shot if it isn't too latency reliant. Being a TCG, I should be in the clear.

[schild]

Might give it a shot if it isn't too latency reliant. Being a TCG, I should be in the clear.

It's an RTS.

[Ghambit]

Might give it a shot if it isn't too latency reliant. Being a TCG, I should be in the clear.

you might have issues once you start getting into the 8 and 12 man "raids" but I've not even tested those yet.  Regardless, you should give it a shot.  There's nothing forcing you to get into those maps anyways really.

Schild, you know I'll be playing (and I'm bringing friends)...   but they better get the phuckin guild UI activated by release.
This is NOT a game you want to PUG.  I'd actually rather PUG in WoW than this game; that's how badly they need a guild UI.

p.s.
they just patched in multi-threaded graphics support so good news for duelie users  (thank the gods; game was seriously boggin down in the larger battles)

[schild]

Well, as per always, I'm gonna start up Bat Country, your friends are welcome to join and use our vent. How many people if I may ask?

Also, my name will be schild in game, guaranteed. Even if they do a reset.

[Ghambit]

Well, as per always, I'm gonna start up Bat Country, your friends are welcome to join and use our vent. How many people if I may ask?

wont know till release; depends on how much traction I've gotten from the community for this game.
friends=guildies

[schild]

I can't believe there aren't more people here interested in this :(

Ghambit, I'm going to be going pure Nature/Green/Whatever. So if no one else plays, you and your friends are gonna have to help me get that color together if you could be so kind. I can't afford cards past what I'm being given.

[Ghambit]

I can't believe there aren't more people here interested in this :(

Ghambit, I'm going to be going pure Nature/Green/Whatever. So if no one else plays, you and your friends are gonna have to help me get that color together if you could be so kind. I can't afford cards past what I'm being given.

Prey for rares and ultras in your starter decks and parley those in colors you're not using into a more powerful green deck.  Also, trade up those multiple common/uncommons for powerful green singles.
Back when I played MtG 1st edition;  the very first MtG U.S. Champion made his winning deck just from a few starters and smart trading skills.  Granted, that was when a 40-card deck was legal.  Nevertheless, more suckers are generated in online gaming than in real-life, so you shouldnt have a problem trading up... plus it'd be fun

As for building decks, my skills are lacking now that they've opened up all the cards including ultras and totaly re-balanced the game.  And I really havent been playing that much.  But I do know Green is all about Shamans and Archers.  Razorleaf is a must.

I'd say if people spent what they spent in traditional MMOs per month buying/trading in BF would be easy.  12 bucks a month is 6 boosters eh?  Problem is discipline.   :)

[schild]

Razorleaf is a fucking animal, thankfully, I only need 1. :) That's kinda the beauty, I should be able to get 1 of Every Green Card from the retail package within a day.

[Ghambit]

That's one thing I didnt like about this game; the lack of need for multiples of one card.  It becomes tougher to trade when people only need 1, especially since upgrades grant extra spawns.  If I was playing Shadow though, I'd probably have multiple cards in a skeleton/resurrection deck.  Fire's DD spells are good to have more than one of also I guess.  Any direct heals for green might be smart to have more than one of along with shamans, unless you've upgraded them.

[DLRiley]

That's one thing I didnt like about this game; the lack of need for multiples of one card.  It becomes tougher to trade when people only need 1, especially since upgrades grant extra spawns.  If I was playing Shadow though, I'd probably have multiple cards in a skeleton/resurrection deck.  Fire's DD spells are good to have more than one of also I guess.  Any direct heals for green might be smart to have more than one of along with shamans, unless you've upgraded them.

Your pve is showing. Upgrades < Charge Upgrades. there is a big difference between summoning 5 troops of tier 1 before the recharge ticks in and 15 of the same tier 1 before the recharge ticks. That's a principle that crosses all factions.

[lamaros]

I'd play this, but it just looks to be too expensive. The RTS bit doesn't help a whole lot, I prefer turn based, but the cost is the main thing.

[Ghambit]

I'd play this, but it just looks to be too expensive. The RTS bit doesn't help a whole lot, I prefer turn based, but the cost is the main thing.

it's really designed to be played 1 Tome/month.  A tome is what?  $20?  10 boosters that go into a special pool for pvp tome games?  After 30 days, those cards release into your general pool to use however you want.  The reward for going at it this way is cheaper boosters and 6-8 xtra commons I believe.

The problem is most everyone cant hold back the urge to dump loads of cash on boosters.  If you can, great.  Because really there's only 200 cards in the set to begin with.  If you focus on 1 color like Schild you're okay.  Unlike MtG where you lose unless you play 2 colors, you're fine in BG with just one.

For the 1st month I'd buy like 6 boosters and work the marketplace in building 1 color deck in addition to the starters you get for buying the game.  After that, once I've got the hang of the game I'd start buying tome decks; because tomes are where the big rewards are (along with large pve coop).  It CAN be done for the price of a normal MMO per month.

Regardless, to have any real power in PvP you need to work the PvE areas a bit (unless you're a Tome player)... which only really require standard deck builds and a lot of trial and error.  The guys who win in PvP are the ones with uber upgraded units that've run the gauntlet in PvE already.

Shyt, really even with the default decks the game is sill fun.  It's just too frakkin easy to spend money.  I cant fault Phenomic for that.
And remember, FLGS TCG boosters are all around $3-$5 so BF is no different really ($2.50).  Chaotic Online is more money and the game sux, even being online and tabletop.  BF intends to do retail packaging and it's a quality game so the pricepoint is right imo.

[schild]

because tomes are where the big rewards are (along with large pve coop).

There are Tome only PvE things? What?

Talk to me about Tome rewards. I wasn't aware they were different/better. Also, man I'm gonna suck at PvP and I'm probably going to be playing the most underplayed color.

[Ghambit]

because tomes are where the big rewards are (along with large pve coop).

There are Tome only PvE things? What?

Talk to me about Tome rewards. I wasn't aware they were different/better. Also, man I'm gonna suck at PvP and I'm probably going to be playing the most underplayed color.

no no... tome battles are only PvP (i misphrased).  They're basically closed pool "equal-footing" matches (built-in sidebar obviously).  You can disband your tome deck whenever you want and it'll flow to your normal collection, but after 30-days I believe it's automatic.
I remember reading that the rewards for Tome battle victories will obviously be a bit higher than normal; not including tourney or ladder play.  The loot system is something they seem to be constantly fooling with though, so dont quote me :(
Might be they're just a more even playing field for folks that want a fair shot at climbing in PvP rank... which is reward enough I guess (along with the extra cards).

btw, tomes are 6 boosters (for the price of 5) and tome decks contain 8 xtra commons.   Probably smartest to buy 1 of those every month.

[schild]

So the first month I should just buy 2 tomes with what's in the box and then get into constructed after that?

[lamaros]

I'd play this, but it just looks to be too expensive. The RTS bit doesn't help a whole lot, I prefer turn based, but the cost is the main thing.

it's really designed to be played 1 Tome/month.  A tome is what?  $20?  10 boosters that go into a special pool for pvp tome games?  After 30 days, those cards release into your general pool to use however you want.  The reward for going at it this way is cheaper boosters and 6-8 xtra commons I believe.

The problem is most everyone cant hold back the urge to dump loads of cash on boosters.  If you can, great.  Because really there's only 200 cards in the set to begin with.  If you focus on 1 color like Schild you're okay.  Unlike MtG where you lose unless you play 2 colors, you're fine in BG with just one.

For the 1st month I'd buy like 6 boosters and work the marketplace in building 1 color deck in addition to the starters you get for buying the game.  After that, once I've got the hang of the game I'd start buying tome decks; because tomes are where the big rewards are (along with large pve coop).  It CAN be done for the price of a normal MMO per month.

Regardless, to have any real power in PvP you need to work the PvE areas a bit (unless you're a Tome player)... which only really require standard deck builds and a lot of trial and error.  The guys who win in PvP are the ones with uber upgraded units that've run the gauntlet in PvE already.

Shyt, really even with the default decks the game is sill fun.  It's just too frakkin easy to spend money.  I cant fault Phenomic for that.
And remember, FLGS TCG boosters are all around $3-$5 so BF is no different really ($2.50).  Chaotic Online is more money and the game sux, even being online and tabletop.  BF intends to do retail packaging and it's a quality game so the pricepoint is right imo.

The thing for me is that in a MMO I can stop playing for half a year, a year, and then come back and play again and not have to pay more to catch up. I might have to play a bit more, but that's ok, because playing the game is the reason I'm paying for it. CCGs work on the premise that you start playing and don't ever stop. If you do stop then you've got to pay just to play again.

I've just had enough of that model with Pox Nora I suppose. I'd prefer a game which wasn't so hardcore about the rare/collectible aspect and had a monthly fee to play and cheaper cards instead. No need to keep stiffing people with a model that grew from real, not virtual, cards.

[Ghambit]

What pissed me off with Pox Nora is they rendered older decks completely obsolete to the point they didnt even WORK with the game if you stopped for a while.  That was dumb and I agree with you there.  But, I dont see that happening with BF.

Why?

Because it's just a simpler (yet more complex) TCG.  Pox was turn-based with multitudes of stats and abilities for every card (the main of which was movement points).  BF cards are more simplified, therefore any expansions really wont stray too far from the norm imo.

Since there's a tome mechanic and robust PvE, you're still able to actively play w/o feeling gimped because you've got last year's expansion.  You didnt have that in Pox Nora; you were just screwed.  That's one reason why Pox added coop campaign mode recently.

[Kitsune]

Were this turn-based, it would be super happy fun time OK!  But RTS...  I suck pretty bad at managing ten different unit types at the same time.  I've always been mediocre at best with RTSes.

[DLRiley]

Its a good game. I played the shit out of it in beta till they did the reset. Will I'll be paying for this game now? NO! As a pvp'er and only a pvp'er I'm getting the general sense that between pve, seal deck play, and regular I'm getting the waiting for que vibe coming from this game. Than there is the the money required to play this game. Unless you can't upgrade/charge upgrade your cards in tome decks, than no, tome is hardly inexpensive compared to regular. You DO need 3 copies of all 20 cards in your deck for you to be competitive. You maybe can get away with one charge upgrade. The tome decks will save you money after the next expansion.

[Aez]

They killed it with the RTS gameplay.  It's not a mater of taste but competition.

They could have been an highly polished turn based collectible game.  They would have destroyed the indie/crappy actual competition.

Instead, they are an average a RTS who wants to sell me individual units.  Pass.