Battleforge - Modern TCG (Yes) by EA (NOOOOOO)

[schild]

Well yea, I've already said I'm not really gonna play again til live, but fuck, this game feels like crack. I might just have to uninstall it like I did the megaten beta >_>

[sidereal]

I lovehate all of you.

I still fire up Etherlords II and Culdcept because there haven't been enough deckbuilding games recently.  Could Battleforge be The One?

[Draegan]

I forgot my sekret answer and password to my Comcast online account and I nearly broke the phone after navigating Comcast's phone system.

So I'm safe for now.

[schild]

Could Battleforge be The One?

I hope The One never arrives or I am fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked.

[Draegan]

Hmm fucked as in homeless or fucked as in die in your chair due to starvation?

[Ghambit]

I got it by posting a silly picture of me imitating a Juggernaut in the forum.  It was not random, you had 100% chance of getting in if you posted a picture.  I imagine it should turn into an open beta pretty soon.

I stopped playing because  you can't buy cards for the beta.  You're pretty much stuck playing with what you have with the few free starting packs, which is a shame since a huge part of the game is building your deck and improving your cards.  Might be just me though, I never grind past the early levels in mmorpg's beta because I find it pointless.

This game will live or die by their ability to release new cards.  I wouldn't bother with the actual game if there was no other card set planned.  The actual cards aren't leaving much place to innovation right now.

In any CCG beta (and I've done a couple) you obviously cant buy cards.  Talk about throwing money away...
As for the cards themselves, I believe the Twilight series is releasing with 200 cards.  Considering a deck is only 20 cards max? that's not bad.  I believe your standard 40-card minimum deck TCGs are usually around 400 cards, tops.  MtG was around 300 cards I believe, and that's with a tourney legal 60-card deck.  So Phenomic has it right to start with this ratio.

A LARGE chunk of the game involves upgrading cards (you cant trade the upgrades though) through loot either won coop or pvp... so that adds a whole nuther layer to the game, making exponential combinations... way more than MtG 1st edition.  It's a system similar to Pox Nora's, where your runes arent just there for looks - they're actually characters you maintain.

Lastly, to even think for a SECOND they wont fully support this game with new cards is shear folly.  The char. models really arent that complex, although the stylization and presentation is great... so I wouldnt doubt them being able to easily generate many new cards per day - most of that hinges on the creativity of their art department and what they can come up with, along with the quality of their playtesting department.  I mean, remember this is frakkin EA we're talking about here and this is a retail giant in the making (as long as EA doesnt tank the game like they usually do).  If you follow Chaotic: Online at all you know how ravenous the Europeans are over that game/cartoon... and Chaotic pales in comparison to BattleForge, although BF is using a similar retail model (only better).

Even if the game doesnt kick off well in the US (which I seriously doubt), the Euro market will eat this up.  And dont be surprised if there's some kind of animated series... if they were smart they'd make it "Adult Swimmish."  The Lore is compelling enough IMO (obviously not on the level of MtG though).

p.s.
If you want a cheap way into the beta just sub to Fileplanet for a month (what?  like 6 bucks?), DL the client and then cancel.  Gotta remember this game is a monetary collectible investment; getting the jump on the retail crowd is worth 1 less Happy Meal IMO... assuming you plan on buying the game.

[Ghambit]

Hmm fucked as in homeless or fucked as in die in your chair due to starvation?

The problem here is it's both.  It's not like you just play a quick pickup game during recess (like in MtG).  You feel compelled to sit there, even in this simple beta.  If you're a competitive person, you have endless avenues to satiate yourself... 24/7, 7 days a week.  If you're a compulsive buyer or HSN junkie, the same.  If you're a raid-leader control phreak, same.  Lone wolf?  covered.  Min-maxer? ditto.

So yah, fucked.

[Aez]

I lovehate all of you.

I still fire up Etherlords II and Culdcept because there haven't been enough deckbuilding games recently.  Could Battleforge be The One?

Haha if you you tough Etherlords was good you're pretty much fucked. This game will consume your life force until you are but a empty husk.

[Aez]

In any CCG beta (and I've done a couple) you obviously cant buy cards.  Talk about throwing money away...

Tanks for the explanation. 

[Ghambit]

In any CCG beta (and I've done a couple) you obviously cant buy cards.  Talk about throwing money away...

Tanks for the explanation. 

np       You just sounded really disappointed you couldnt buy cards.  But, I'll just take it like you ran out of content - which I aggree can happen w/o having the market, the 12-mans, the ladder, guild UI, etc.  Just kinda sounded like you expected it.  How long have you been in the beta?

[Aez]

I was in the first wave.  Was it the beginning of November?  I played maybe 10 matches, decided it was worth a try at release but felt like I was wasting my time in the beta. So I stopped.  And yeah,I was stuck because I couldn't get more cards to try new tactics.


Couple of random points :

I also read about the 200 cards but it didn't feel like there was that many in the beta.  I read the forum more than I played and it was always the same cards being discussed.  I think they are counting a normal card and his epic version has 2 cards.

I think they missed an opportunity by giving you access to your whole deck at any time.  I miss the strategy and tension related to drawing in Magic.  The resources system would prevent the mana problem found in magic.  Could have been nice to be able to use resources to draw cards faster.  Having unit or spell to discard the opponent hands or draw more cards could have augmented the strategic possibilities.

I think this game is going to suffer from player quiting when they lose the first battle.  The resources system doesn't leave much room for a comeback.  You lose one of your color orb and you're stuck throwing mid level units at his late game units.  The units are also pretty easy to heal with a splash of green.  You can steamroll a player army and be left with almost 75% of your army while he has to recast everything. I see most pvp game being a fight for some orb ressources in the middle of the map, the looser instantly quit.

There's one particularly good feature : they have a flexible league system.  You can open a couple of booster and restrict them to a specific deck for a months (you can't use any card from your collection) and play vs  other player with the same restriction.  It's a nice way to learn the game on equal ground vs the veteran while you build your collection.  With out this, the newcomers would simply get steamrolled by veterans with fully upgraded cards and quit.

[sidereal]

Ooh.  Closed deck leagues.  Personal favorite feature in a CCG.  My gaming budget is right now cowering in a corner praying that I won't mug it for booster pack money.  Its prayers will not be answered.

[Aez]

It's not as bad as Magic for the budget since the deck last you one month and work for an unlimited number of games.  The money wasting part will be for running after rare cards and keeping up to date with the updates.

[Tmon]

Already uninstalled it, I like CCGs but find I still hate RTSs so I'll be giving this one a miss.

[Ghambit]

I was in the first wave.  Was it the beginning of November?  I played maybe 10 matches, decided it was worth a try at release but felt like I was wasting my time in the beta. So I stopped.  And yeah,I was stuck because I couldn't get more cards to try new tactics.


Couple of random points :

I also read about the 200 cards but it didn't feel like there was that many in the beta.  I read the forum more than I played and it was always the same cards being discussed.  I think they are counting a normal card and his epic version has 2 cards.

I think they missed an opportunity by giving you access to your whole deck at any time.  I miss the strategy and tension related to drawing in Magic.  The resources system would prevent the mana problem found in magic.  Could have been nice to be able to use resources to draw cards faster.  Having unit or spell to discard the opponent hands or draw more cards could have augmented the strategic possibilities.

I think this game is going to suffer from player quiting when they lose the first battle.  The resources system doesn't leave much room for a comeback.  You lose one of your color orb and you're stuck throwing mid level units at his late game units.  The units are also pretty easy to heal with a splash of green.  You can steamroll a player army and be left with almost 75% of your army while he has to recast everything. I see most pvp game being a fight for some orb ressources in the middle of the map, the looser instantly quit.

There's one particularly good feature : they have a flexible league system.  You can open a couple of booster and restrict them to a specific deck for a months (you can't use any card from your collection) and play vs  other player with the same restriction.  It's a nice way to learn the game on equal ground vs the veteran while you build your collection.  With out this, the newcomers would simply get steamrolled by veterans with fully upgraded cards and quit.

I'd tend to agree with you about people quitting; I've seen it happen in other slightly similar games.  BUT, BF is an MMO with the vast majority of its content coop and solo PvE (they even stole WARs unlockable lore...  i.e. u cant find out what happens unless you beat a certain map/level).  The PvP element is kind of the gravy.  The beta doesnt really reflect this because some of the content is missing, so you're left with just playing a lot of pickup games.  Hence, people get bored and quit.  If it didnt have that awesome coop feature and the really slick community UI, I wouldnt play it either.

So, it's basically like every other MMO in a way.  Yah, you can PvP... but unless you pwn PvE occasionally, you'll likely be undergeared when you fight a live person 1v1.  Also remember, there's 2v2 and 4v4 right? So, if you suck... grab a friend - adjust your tactics to compensate.

[Draegan]

How much are packs etc in this game or typically in this genre?

[Falwell]

How much are packs etc in this game or typically in this genre?

Usually about 3 bucks a pack. They almost always discount for buying them by the "booster box." which is usually 30 - 40 packs. A good idea is to go halvsies with somebody on a box like we used to do way back in the MTG days.

[Ghambit]

The booster boxes in BF are called "tomes."  Dunno how much they'll be.

[lamaros]

eh so it's not turn based? Pass.

[Ghambit]

eh so it's not turn based? Pass.

... not really possible with this design, the battles would take entirely too long, especially when we're talking about 12-man PvE, 4v4 pvp, etc.  Making it turn-based would also screw up the loot system, since people will likely drop games before they're done.

It's not like it's entirely RTS either (no game really is), and it's probably on the slower end of those.

[Nonentity]

I have a mild interest in RTSes, and a mild interest in CCGs. A combination of both, sadly, only equated to a mild interest.

However, it did make me want to try it again, so maybe I will. I'm reserving my limited amount of RTS love for Dawn of War 2 and Starcraft 2, though.

[Ghambit]

Empire: Total War will own all next year.  DoW while great, wont have the long term value Total War or BF will have IMO.  I have a bad feeling I'm going to end up playing all 3. 
For some dumbass reason they're ALL releasing around the same time.

[DLRiley]

Fun game. But for a pure pvp'er the upgrade system is both a money and time sink rolled into a bottle of fail. Honestly I can understand the money sink (which I hate), but the time sink just going to have to die come launch. Otherwise the new player vs veteran is going to be very lopsided. To explain to upgrade cards you need 2 currencies. Victory Tokens and Battle Tokens. You get both from pvp and upgrading any card usually cost a couple. Fully upgraded card would cost 10-15 Victory Tokens (I never run out of Battle Tokens). The problem is that Victory Tokens are gained in matches you win that last for 3 minutes. On average a match can last between 1-15 minutes, with a good portion of matches even against skilled opponents ending in 2 minutes. Because a non level card < level 2 card, this becomes an issue. Its not a LARGE gap but a still a big enough to lose you matches. At any rate if you play 20 games (pvp) you win all 20 it still doesn't equal 20 victory tokens.

Another thing is that the boys behind this game have one big gaff against them which is the way the balance cards. This may change come launch but right now, the general feeling is that they skim the forums and toss a nerf hammer at whatever gets mentioned a lot. This is a concern in a lot of games, but something to make note of because they will nerf something without telling you exactly what they did. Very annoying.

Unfortunately the game seems to go in and out of playable, which can be blamed on beta, but it is something to keep in mind considering servers and match types can be down for hours and days at a time. Though a lot of the major errors have been worked out so I don't expect this ruin the launch too much.

[Jack9]

In any CCG beta (and I've done a couple) you obviously cant buy cards.

Magic The Gathering Online beta (1.0, before the succession of fails) you could buy cards iirc.

[Ghambit]

Fun game. But for a pure pvp'er the upgrade system is both a money and time sink rolled into a bottle of fail. Honestly I can understand the money sink (which I hate), but the time sink just going to have to die come launch. Otherwise the new player vs veteran is going to be very lopsided. To explain to upgrade cards you need 2 currencies. Victory Tokens and Battle Tokens. You get both from pvp and upgrading any card usually cost a couple. Fully upgraded card would cost 10-15 Victory Tokens (I never run out of Battle Tokens). The problem is that Victory Tokens are gained in matches you win that last for 3 minutes. On average a match can last between 1-15 minutes, with a good portion of matches even against skilled opponents ending in 2 minutes. Because a non level card < level 2 card, this becomes an issue. Its not a LARGE gap but a still a big enough to lose you matches. At any rate if you play 20 games (pvp) you win all 20 it still doesn't equal 20 victory tokens.

The upgrade system isnt designed to cater solely to the pvp crowd.  Much, if not most of it is in the PvE areas and player advancements/accomplishments (xp, etc.).  The only PURE pvpers there will be in a game like this are the ones with money to throw away; they'll just buy rares to take up the slack.  Smart players will do it all, including being active in the marketplace.  Either way, there's no death penalty so who cares.

[Ghambit]

[Cadaverine]

I see your cup of crickets, and raise you a bowl of drunken Mexican death bees! 

[Ghambit]

I see your bowl of drunken mexican death bees and raise you two gimp-gagged actors:


But fo' real 'doh... I thought this game would get more discussion in here.  Either it's good enough not to bytch about or too crappy to waste the text.  I'm guessing the former, which is a good sign... uhh, I think.
Anyways, I like this game... so screw all ya'll

[schild]

Any pure PVPer talking about this game is just wasting his breath anyway. It's not a pure PVP game. This is not the darkfall thread.

[Ghambit]

Schild, what decks do you foresee as being the strongest?  I've only had quality time with Frost and a bit of Nature.  Both are control oriented; definitely not a lot of steamroll in those decks so far.

[schild]

Schild, what decks do you foresee as being the strongest?  I've only had quality time with Frost and a bit of Nature.  Both are control oriented; definitely not a lot of steamroll in those decks so far.

I only looked at Nature as that's what I'm playing. Me and Falwell have tentative plans to whore our way through the universe with him as shadow.

[DLRiley]

whats you kids ingame ranks? 26/1

[schild]

whats you kids ingame ranks? 26/1

No one here cares about that shit. And if they do, they're in the wrong place.

[Ghambit]

I have yet to play a single PvP match.  I'm having fun just running the solo campaign(s).

[Falwell]

I've played both Shadow and Frost decks. Shadow is very big on short term, kill your own units for massive short term buffs kinda play (kinda like sac decks from MTG black.) Frost is all about defense. Lots of slows, freezing, shields, high defensive value units etc. Big on buildings, especially defense towers.

Both are enjoyable so far in their own way. Over the long term I'd certainly prefer to play shadow over frost from what I've seen.

EDIT: Also, it's a helluvah good time for me personally. I'm taking the Schild approach and staying out of it till it goes live for the most part. I played enough to know that I dig it and have just enough knowledge about it to be functional when it launches.