Random Greyhound Homicide

[Riggswolfe]

After more thought I'm convinced of two things:

1) I'd have wet myself hardcore if I'd been on that bus. To the point that the cops would just sigh when they saw me. I'd probably have shit myself too. No delusions on how I'd react to a beheading on the same vehicle I'm on. Fuck being a hero, I'd have knocked old ladies down to get off that bus.

2) This guy was inspired by the Dark Knight. He thinks he's the Joker. Or too much GTA4. He thought he could go hide and reduce his wanted level Ok, this last part is just me predicting some of the stupid shit that will be said later.

[Ingmar]

The latest:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/08/01/canada.beheading/index.html

Nothing really too new, they haven't done the psych evaluation on the guy yet, and won't until he has a lawyer.

[Righ]

Upon reading this thread I was relieved to see that it wasn't about dog killing. Leave that to the DEA.

[K9]

A 40-year-old man was charged with second-degree murder Friday in connection with the stabbing and beheading death of his seatmate on a Greyhound Canada bus, authorities said

Out of legal curiousity, what defines this as second degree, rather than first-degree murder?

[stray]

To be fair, it's quite possible to heroically drop motherfuckers with knives. Have some love for the internet toughguy. It can and does happen sometimes. I've seen it, and done it. If you're not scared of conflict and have some modicum of skill, you do have a chance. It's just guns that you should be afraid of.

That being said, this was so unusual and shocking, anyone could be nervous.

[edit]

 I think 1st degree usually applies to some kind of longterm pre-planning? Or something like that? Also, I could be completely full of shit.

[Tale]

Thoughts on reading about it yesterday:

1. Could be a result of severe mental illness or drugs.

2. Carving off someone's head with a big knife is very al-Qaeda in Iraq from the Zarqawi days. With those full videos available on the internet, I've always expected copycats.

3. It's also very um, complete. Like someone who wanted every part of what a sadistic killer might want from a one-time event: take victim by surprise, terrorise victim (stabs and screams), decapitate victim, disembowel victim, and do it all in public to terrorise others.

[rk47]

Guns would have made it better? Guh, I hate that mentality with a passion. They don't consider that the maniac could have gotten a gun, shot up the bus and THEN started with the knife. 1 victim to 10 victims.

The problem with guns is that too many stupid people have access to them.  Which story is more common:  "Vigilante Hero Thwarts Knife-Wielding Maniac" or "Innocent Toddler Blows Out Own Brains With Daddy's Gun".  Pretty sure it's the latter.  Yeah, if only we had more guns 

The joker can tell you why he prefer a knife.

[Tale]

Video: Witness tells what happened
(will play an ad first, hang on)

[Kitsune]

Typically, first-degree requires that you planned and set out to murder a specific person.  Your girlfriend cheated on you, so you abduct the guy in question and stick him in a warehouse full of death traps while you taunt him with a puppet on a television: first degree.  Also, at least in the US, murdering someone in the commission of a crime is liable to get you a first-degree charge.  You carjack someone and shoot them dead in the process, probably getting a lawyer the fun job of keeping you off death row. 

Second-degree is murder 'in the heat of passion'.  You walk in on your girlfriend in the middle of the cheating process with the guy in your bed and you smash his head with the lamp: second-degree.  If you can give a convincing argument that you didn't mean to kill him, and please Mr. Judge be understanding, I walked in on him banging my girl, you might be able to get it down to manslaughter.  Likewise, people who got in a fight and accidentally killed someone are occasionally jacked up from manslaughter to second-degree if the circumstances depicted them as being the assholes.  IIRC, some guy who got in a fight with a ref over his kid's hockey game and punched the crap out of the ref, leading to said ref dying of a weak heart or somesuch, got second-degree.  The circumstances (fist fight, accidental death) were in the manslaughter area of the law, but the fact that the guy was a huge dick and attacked this other man for no good reason at all got him a harsher charge.

[NiX]

I can't wait for the argument that will ensue over him not being put on some kind of death row.

[Oban]

I can't wait for the argument that will ensue over him not being put on some kind of death row.

Canada does not execute criminals.

[DeathInABottle]

I was talking to a law student about this, and he was saying that the murderer has a reasonable chance of succeeding with an insanity defense here.  Horrible as it is, he may well end up somewhere other than prison.

[Big Gulp]

I was talking to a law student about this, and he was saying that the murderer has a reasonable chance of succeeding with an insanity defense here.  Horrible as it is, he may well end up somewhere other than prison.

I'd say so.  Isn't the insanity plea predicated on whether or not the person understands the difference between right and wrong?  I'd say there's a big fat question mark about that in this case.  At least, if I was on the jury it wouldn't be too difficult to believe that he was completely gone.

[Oban]

Insanity due to...

1) annoying ringtone.
2) too much SMSing.
3) annoying SMS ringtone.
4) proximity to carny.

[Simond]

Insanity due to...

1) annoying ringtone.
2) too much SMSing.
3) annoying SMS ringtone.
4) proximity to carny.

5) Loud music from ipod headphones.
6) Loud, crappy music from ipod headphones.

[Signe]

I can't wait for the argument that will ensue over him not being put on some kind of death row.

Canada does not execute criminals.

Nix is from Canada, too, you know.  I know this makes his comment seem even more odd, but it is impolite to point that out. 

[Kitsune]

Actually, I just looked up the guy who killed the hockey ref, and they didn't charge him with murder.  They charged him with manslaughter and then doubled the jail time for a 6-10 year sentence.  As this happened back in 2002, he's still in prison and as it turns out was recently denied release.  The parole board wrote that he still didn't seem to accept responsibility for the other man's death.  One would think that having six years to think it over would have provided some insight, but apparently not, so he gets to stay a while longer.

[Reg]

As awful as this incident was I don't think it's likely to revive the capital punishment debate up here. The guy is obviously out of his mind and if we didn't bring back hanging for the likes of Paul Bernardo or Clifford Olson we aren't likely to do it for him.

[Miasma]

I can't wait for the argument that will ensue over him not being put on some kind of death row.

Canada does not execute criminals.

Nix is from Canada, too, you know.  I know this makes his comment seem even more odd, but it is impolite to point that out. 

I'm sure Nix knows Canada has no death penalty, he was saying that someone is probably going to start an argument about how bad that is and try to justify capital punishment due to this.

[Oban]

Doubtful, the guy is Chinese so the racial/pc backlash that will arise because someone is asking for the death penalty should prevent the issue from coming up.

[Der Helm]

you abduct the guy in question and stick him in a warehouse full of death traps while you taunt him with a puppet on a television: first degree. 

Hmmmmm ...

[Merusk]

Actually, I just looked up the guy who killed the hockey ref, and they didn't charge him with murder.  They charged him with manslaughter and then doubled the jail time for a 6-10 year sentence.  As this happened back in 2002, he's still in prison and as it turns out was recently denied release.  The parole board wrote that he still didn't seem to accept responsibility for the other man's death.  One would think that having six years to think it over would have provided some insight, but apparently not, so he gets to stay a while longer.

"Prison is full of innocent men."

[Fordel]

I don't care if his cell is padded or stone, as long as he never leaves it.

[NiX]

I'm sure Nix knows Canada has no death penalty, he was saying that someone is probably going to start an argument about how bad that is and try to justify capital punishment due to this.

Bingo. I didn't think what I said was that confusing.

[Trippy]

Just when you think things couldn't get any more gruesome (don't read if you've just eaten):

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080802/ap_on_re_ca/canada_bus_stabbing

[Tale]

Bingo. I didn't think what I said was that confusing.

People had an intense overreaction to a barely noticeable extent because while it sounded unlike you were totally not saying one thing, what you were actually saying wasn't misinterpreted in a way that was almost incorrect.

[NiX]

People had an intense overreaction to a barely noticeable extent because while it sounded unlike you were totally not saying one thing, what you were actually saying wasn't misinterpreted in a way that was almost incorrect.

At first I was like and then I was like , but then I realized it was all

[Broughden]

Just when you think things couldn't get any more gruesome (don't read if you've just eaten):

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080802/ap_on_re_ca/canada_bus_stabbing

Did you read at the bottom how his wife and employer are both saying he was "Mister Well Adjusted Nice Happy Hardworker Guy" and that all he did was supposedly get on the bus to go for a job interview. Then neither his employer or wife heard from him again, and got worried. Next thing you know he is stabbing, beheading and fucking eating someone on a bus.

Shit like this makes me think there might be reason to believe in shit like demonic possession. That and Im already a superstitious as fuck.

[NiX]

Shit like this makes me think there might be reason to believe in shit like demonic possession. That and Im already a superstitious as fuck.

I just attribute it to the fact that people as a whole give themselves more credit than they deserve for not being animalistic.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

Man, I hate to come off like an "internet tough guy" but this motherfucker was a 5'4'' 130 pound 40 year old chinese guy. I swear to god, had this shit happened in some decent sized city in the states or anyplace other than canada, you could bet your ass that little peice of shit would have had that knife shoved directly up his ass. I mean a cop waited for back up and made that tape and he could have gone in there and taken care of business. that guy in the video went in with 3 other people WITH crowbars and ran out when that little guy came after him. If that were my kid, I would be just as mad at all those people who just stood there and watched my kid get slaughtered as I would be at the murderer.

I can't say with certainty what I would have done, but I really can't imagine myself sitting outside the bus while this maniac did this. 30+ people vs skinny chinese guy with knife. Come the fuck on...

[Nerf]

Of course you're not afraid of a guy with a knife, you're mexican.

They probably figured he knew kung-fu.

[stray]

Man, I hate to come off like an "internet tough guy" but this motherfucker was a 5'4'' 130 pound 40 year old chinese guy. I swear to god, had this shit happened in some decent sized city in the states or anyplace other than canada, you could bet your ass that little peice of shit would have had that knife shoved directly up his ass. I mean a cop waited for back up and made that tape and he could have gone in there and taken care of business. that guy in the video went in with 3 other people WITH crowbars and ran out when that little guy came after him. If that were my kid, I would be just as mad at all those people who just stood there and watched my kid get slaughtered as I would be at the murderer.

I can't say with certainty what I would have done, but I really can't imagine myself sitting outside the bus while this maniac did this. 30+ people vs skinny chinese guy with knife. Come the fuck on...

Exactly.

Here's another nugget: It's not even about tough. If you get in enough scrapes, you eventually realize how it isn't that big of a deal. Anyone who is used to smacking people and getting smacked would have had no qualms to try and stop that guy. If you live your life just talking shit, then sure, someone who proclaims that might seem like some poser tough guy -- but more than often, they're not trying to be that at all.

Not to get too corny with movie references, but I'm reminded of that one monologue Gene Hackman had in Unforgiven, when he was talking to the reporter who was infatuated with gunfighters and the wild west: Gene's character told him there was no such thing as a good gunfighter really -- that they were just guys who had the nerves to pull a trigger.

[Miasma]

Right, because every stabbing story from the U.S. ends with the stabber being tackled by all the concerned citizens around them.  Every time.  The six o'clock news just doesn't have time for anything other than story after story of people beating up knife wielding maniacs.  I guess we just don't have enough worthless Internet Tough Guys like you two up here practicing in front of mirrors with nunchucks or some shit.

[stray]

The only internet tough guys here are smug people like you actually. You're the one comfortable with just talking shit, leaving it that, and not seeing that reality can extend beyond that. Find the courage in yourself to get over being a smartass, or you could actually end up being like these people on the bus one day, where you're schtick does not work.

[Simond]

Man, I hate to come off like an "internet tough guy" but this motherfucker was a 5'4'' 130 pound 40 year old chinese guy. I swear to god, had this shit happened in some decent sized city in the states or anyplace other than canada, you could bet your ass that little peice of shit would have had that knife shoved directly up his ass. I mean a cop waited for back up and made that tape and he could have gone in there and taken care of business. that guy in the video went in with 3 other people WITH crowbars and ran out when that little guy came after him. If that were my kid, I would be just as mad at all those people who just stood there and watched my kid get slaughtered as I would be at the murderer.

I can't say with certainty what I would have done, but I really can't imagine myself sitting outside the bus while this maniac did this. 30+ people vs skinny chinese guy with knife. Come the fuck on...

Sorry, but when Mr "He seemed like such a quiet, normal man" pulls a knife, pops Blade Flurry, stabs random_victim scores of times, hacks the head off, and then starts cutting chunks off and eating them, I'm backing the fuck up.

Know why? That means they're crazy and picking fights with crazy people is a Bad Idea.