Greetings from jury duty

[bhodi]

Make sure you mutter loudly about jury nullification. They'll love that.

[schild]

This is the first time I've heard of this happening to a lawyer. Fascinating. I mean, I'm sure it's happened before. I've just never run into the situation.

[Signe]

I don't think I could be on a jury if it was some sort of important case.  I can never decide on anything and once I finally do, I'm ALWAYS wrong.  Like if some child murderer had a cat, I'd be all like awww, that's so cute and he'd SO get off.  Proof wouldn't matter - especially if it was a ginger tabby.



No way could someone own that and be guilty of anything!

[Murgos]

You can choose to vote for the future of your country.

You can't choose to opt out of being selected for jury duty.

AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!

Actually, at least in a few states, not being a registered voter opts you out for jury duty.  Or, anyway, the list of people eligible for jury duty are pulled from the registered voters list.

So, yeah, incentive not to vote.

[NiX]

Actually, at least in a few states, not being a registered voter opts you out for jury duty.  Or, anyway, the list of people eligible for jury duty are pulled from the registered voters list.

So, yeah, incentive not to vote.

Now that's messed up. They should just allow people to opt in for being selected for jury duty. So what if the majority will be seniors who watch Matlock reruns.

[Jain Zar]

I've only been called once.  I sleep days so it basically fucked me up having to get up when I normally go to sleep.
I was one of the LAST people to get out of there at around 3pm or so, getting there at 9 AM.  It was a waste of my time frankly.
Not to mention the money thing.  I make 21-26 bucks an hour depending on our toke rate that day.  I got about 25 bucks for the whole day of wasted time.

Yeah.  Fuck jury duty.  I'm not that interested.  Its not shameful.  Its a pointless waste of time.  Make it volunteer.  Itll give old folks on social security something to do.

That or pay people at least minimum wage for the day.  Tax free.  40 bucks a day aint minimum wage.

[Abagadro]

Ok, back home.

Get this.  This was a voir dire for a civil case and the defendants were guys I SUED FOR BASICALLY THE EXACT SAME THING THEY ARE BEING SUED FOR IN THIS CASE.

 

[JWIV]

Ok, back home.

Get this.  This was a voir dire for a civil case and the defendants were guys I SUED FOR BASICALLY THE EXACT SAME THING THEY ARE BEING SUED FOR IN THIS CASE.

 

So they made you jury foreman right?

 

[Sir T]

"oh guys I know we cant talk about this case, but THERE WAS THIS OTHER CASE you see and these same guys..."

[Paelos]

Ok, back home.

Get this.  This was a voir dire for a civil case and the defendants were guys I SUED FOR BASICALLY THE EXACT SAME THING THEY ARE BEING SUED FOR IN THIS CASE.

 

Sue the state for "Raging Douchebaggery in the 1st degree" for even sending you a letter for that case.

[Abagadro]

It actually made things better as I would have had to sit around that whole time for any other case and then get bounced because I am a lawyer, but seeing those chuckleheads being sued for something they touted in our case as one of their "successes" made it worth it.

[Strazos]

Yeah.  Fuck jury duty.  I'm not that interested.  Its not shameful.  Its a pointless waste of time.  Make it volunteer.  Itll give old folks on social security something to do.

That or pay people at least minimum wage for the day.  Tax free.  40 bucks a day aint minimum wage.

NO to the first part. That would not be a jury of my peers. My peers know how to drive and use a PC, at the very least, among other things. Also, they tend to vote stupid.

I could live with the second part. Thankfully, my current job covers at least a week I think. And, if I get the kind of job I hope I get for my career, I won't even be eligible.

[Ingmar]

This is the first time I've heard of this happening to a lawyer. Fascinating. I mean, I'm sure it's happened before. I've just never run into the situation.

A number of years ago, when my younger sister was still in high school, my dad (who was a lawyer) was called up for jury duty in a murder case. That took place across the street from the high school my sister and I attended. Between two current students at that high school.

Needless to say he didn't make the cut. 

[Trippy]

I love how people complain about being selected for jury duty and do everything they can to get out of it (not talking about Abagadro, obviously) and then complain when fucked up juries return fucked up verdicts.

My jury selection stories.

First time I was called up was for some minor drug case. I was part of the one of the groups that was called in while the lawyers were weeding out who they didn't want but they never got to me. If they had I'm pretty sure I would been rejected cause even back then I was in favor of legalizing marijuana.

Latest time, George Schultz was in the jury pool He was one of the people called into the courtroom for the selection process and the Judge wouldn't dismiss him out-of-hand so he had to go up and have a private conversation and then the Judge excused him. I was actually selected cause where I live the residents are typically highly educated (as a couple of you know) so the typical excuses don't normally work and the lawyers can't just automatically dismiss engineers and doctors and other highly educated professionals cause then they wouldn't have enough to fill the jury. We even had a lawyer in our jury but something happened and he was excused after the first day.

I ended up being the Foreman It was a very educational experience. A few things I learned:

* The pressure to make a decision as quickly as possible is pervasive. Everybody (well except me) wants to get out of there as quickly as possible.

* Lawyers, even where I live, don't do a good job. I had to write dozens of notes to the judge to get questions answered that the lawyers on both sides should've been asking the witnesses.

* The law is really really vague. And the Judge isn't much help in getting questions about the law answered.

* It's tough making decisions in cases based mostly on circumstantial evidence. There's always some doubt in the back of your mind.

[Tale]

I got a jury duty summons when I was a student and - not realising I didn't have to attend (under Australian law as a student) - I went along and was put onto a criminal case ... where the defendant pleaded guilty and we were dismissed.

15 years later I was called up again and they allowed me to defer it due to work, but got me again in a year - I had to go along. Journalists can be jurors, but I run news websites for a TV network which has a godawful tabloid current affairs show, whose website I also sometimes have to mess with. I was likely to have reported on various upcoming cases, so I named the current affairs show and asked them whether they really wanted anyone who worked for that. "You can go home, sir."

[K9]

And, if I get the kind of job I hope I get for my career, I won't even be eligible.

Crime Overlord?

[Abagadro]

To go back to Nebu's question. I think they need to improve the service level. I know budgets are tight and all, but we were kept there from 9:00 am to 2:00 pm without any food or chance to really get a drink (an inconvenient water cooler when we were shunted to another courtroom while they were hashing out strikes for cause).  The process also needs to be explained better as people were constantly asking what was going on and how much longer it would take. I know there needs to be some level of keeping them in the dark for the sake of the process, but simple things could have been communicated.   The video also sort of insulted my intelligence, but I'm not the target audience I know.  It's probably similar to being the doctor/patient. You realize the level of stuff you don't communicate because it is second nature to you but to the neophyte it is a complete mystery what is going on.

On the plus side, they do kiss your ass and tell you how great you are for showing up and being part of the process. 

Our judge was also somewhat funny and kept things from being a complete slog which many of them over in that building are not adept at doing from my experience.

[Tale]

I think they need to improve the service level. I know budgets are tight and all, but we were kept there from 9:00 am to 2:00 pm without any food or change to really get a drink (an inconvenient water cooler when we were shunted to another courtroom while they were hashing out strikes for cause).

Here in Oz, they provide tea, coffee and biscuits (cookies) while you are waiting around.

[Trippy]

Yeah.  Fuck jury duty.  I'm not that interested.  Its not shameful.  Its a pointless waste of time.  Make it volunteer.  Itll give old folks on social security something to do.

That or pay people at least minimum wage for the day.  Tax free.  40 bucks a day aint minimum wage.

NO to the first part. That would not be a jury of my peers. My peers know how to drive and use a PC, at the very least, among other things. Also, they tend to vote stupid.

I could live with the second part. Thankfully, my current job covers at least a week I think. And, if I get the kind of job I hope I get for my career, I won't even be eligible.

There's no such thing as the right to a "jury of your peers".

[TheWalrus]

Last jury I was on, I asked the (Title of the guy that isn't a bailiff but does check in of the jury) how you get picked since everyone was asking how to get out of it. He said in Washington state, if you are a property owner, licensed driver, registered voter and something else he couldn't remember, you will be picked damn near every time you're eligible. Sho nuff, I get drawn for jury duty every year. And I usually get my summons as soon as my 12 month cooling off period is over. Fun stuff.

[Strazos]

And, if I get the kind of job I hope I get for my career, I won't even be eligible.

Crime Overlord?

Foreign National. Kind of hard to get picked when you reside outside of the country. 

[Jayce]

Thanks for the writeup Trippy.  I've been registered to vote for 18 years now and only gotten called once, this year (I have one more appearance to make out of four).  I've always been morbidly curious about acutally serving on a jury, but that could change once I actually have to do it.  My employer covers me (it's paid time off) so that helps my motivation too.

One thing that bothered me is that in our leisure-obsessed civilization, everyone wants to get the fuck out of there, never mind that you may be ruining someone's life or letting a dangerous criminal back on the streets.

I think jury duty falls into the necessary evil category.  I agree the "wages" such as they are are laughable.  You'd think that either the state should cover at least minimum wage, or your employer made to pay you at the usual rate (an average if you're hourly) even if it then has to be subsidized by the state.

[lamaros]

I cannot get called up for Jury Duty because I'm not on the electoral roll. I have yet to establish if I will get into trouble when I give a fuck (read: have a preference) about any of our elections and sign up (if Brumby hangs around it won't be long).

[UnSub]

The one time I've had jury duty so far, I got selected on a drug-related case (guess I looked serious enough for the prosecution yet young enough for the defence). During the first witness' testimony, I realised I knew exactly which house they were talking about and where, so had to get my self excused. It was a bit embarrassing to have to put my hand up, interrupt the second witness (a cop) and indicate I knew something. Fortunately they'd picked 2 reserve jurors for the case, so it wasn't a major issue.

The defendant had owned 3 dogs that had attempted to go me when I walked past one day. Was 300 kms from home at the time. Small world.

[Lantyssa]

Since being out of school, I've only been selected once.  It was for a prostitution sting.

I don't mind serving, but really it is a waste of my time.  In criminal cases, no prosecutor in Houston is going to let me on a panel simply because of my views.  I'm too highly educated given the pool.  If I stay in politics much longer, it'll be problematic because I'll end up knowing at least one person in most courtrooms of the city.  If elections go the way we expect, I'll know a full third of the judges alone, including the appelate level.

[Selby]

I've been called several times and usually just ended up sitting in the waiting room until 2PM when they tell everyone who hasn't been picked to go home.  Doesn't bother me too much, I get to sleep in, arrive at court at 8AM, sit around surfing the web or playing video games until 2-3PM and then go home while getting paid by work (plus my $25 or so "good citizen" reward).

Last time I did get brought into the jury room.  There were several people who made up all kinds of stories about how they hated cops and "the man" was out to get them, which is why they should be excused (the lawyers fucked with them for a few rounds making them stay until the very end of the day before dismissing them).  I know I would have been disqualified due to my views as the case was in regard to a misdemeanor assault charge that the alleged victim wasn't even prosecuting based on circumstantial evidence that wasn't really damning in any way.  The maximum penalty for this case was like a $500 fine and community service (not even jail time).  Talk about a waste of the court's (and my) time.  I guess rookie lawyers need something to learn how the system works on though...

What did annoy me was they had several murder cases going on that were expected to last 6-8 weeks.  And financial hardship was NOT allowed as an excuse to get out.  Your company isn't paying you 8 weeks to be here?  Sorry, not good enough.  That annoyed me.

[Fabricated]

Hey, fuck you. I work for the courts here and I've gotten seated on a jury like 4 goddamn times in the last 4 years now despite knowing the judge, the prosecutor, the defense attorney, and even some of the cops involved by first name.

[Engels]

Remind me to never comitt a crime wherever you live.

[Lantyssa]

Remind me to never comitt a crime wherever you live.

No kidding.

[Morat20]

Since being out of school, I've only been selected once.  It was for a prostitution sting.

I don't mind serving, but really it is a waste of my time.  In criminal cases, no prosecutor in Houston is going to let me on a panel simply because of my views.  I'm too highly educated given the pool.  If I stay in politics much longer, it'll be problematic because I'll end up knowing at least one person in most courtrooms of the city.  If elections go the way we expect, I'll know a full third of the judges alone, including the appelate level.

I seem to get lucky on the Houston summons -- I've been in school for all but one of them. College for the first set, then I got nabbed about a year after getting my BS, and then since I've started my Master's I've gotten two or three summons.

I just tick off the "I am taking 6 or more hours of college classes" box and go about my business. I don't really care personally -- my company's big enough that it's forced to offer the day with pay, although you're supposed to head into work if half or more of the work day is left when you get out.

I didn't make the jury (didn't even have to answer a question, I was something like third from last of the people for that pool), but judging by the questions it was pretty obviously some sort of parole or bail violation. Afterwards, the judge asked us a bunch of questions about the whole setup -- from the initial letter through parking. Apparently he was on some committee to improve it.

*shrug*. Park and Ride makes it marginally convienent. Since I was the only one on the bus, and it the stop was empty, he dropped me off at the juror's entrance. :)

[Nebu]

Thanks for the info Ab.  It's interesting to hear an insider's perspective. 

Oddly, I've never been called to jury duty.

[NowhereMan]

Interesting read. I know I had a friend who got called up despite being a university student, some sort of administrative cock-up I presume. He wore his Eton tie on the grounds that it would garuantee his rejection but it seems neither of the lawyers recognised it and he had to actually point out that he risked his schooling if he was picked. He managed to get out of it.

Barring administrative cock-ups I'm garuanteed not to ever be summoned, signing the official secrets act has its plus points.

[Job601]

I used to intern at the National Center for State Courts, a think tank focused on court issues.  The lack of adequate compensation for jurors is one of things judges and court administrators complain about to them most.  There is strong evidence that paying jurors what they're worth would improve the quality of justice in the system.  You're that much more likely to get smarter jurors who want to be there and try to do their best.

Everybody you run into at the court knows the system is miserable and would love to improve it, but improving things would cost money and take political will that just isn't there in most state governments. 

In other words, if this bothers you, call your state senator! 

[Ironwood]

Interesting read. I know I had a friend who got called up despite being a university student, some sort of administrative cock-up I presume. He wore his Eton tie on the grounds that it would garuantee his rejection but it seems neither of the lawyers recognised it and he had to actually point out that he risked his schooling if he was picked. He managed to get out of it.

Barring administrative cock-ups I'm garuanteed not to ever be summoned, signing the official secrets act has its plus points.

Eh  ?  I didn't know being a Uni Student disbarred you.

I was only called once.  They took one look and told me to fuck right off.

Which was nice.  It was a Glasgow Stabbing and the chap looked of the vengeful persuasion.

[Murgos]

I got a called in once.  I happened to be in Somalia at the time I got the letter.  I put the biggest shit-eating grin on my face I had and walked into command tent, handed it to the CO and said, "Sir, I have to go home!  My duty to my country calls."

He got a good laugh out of it and told me to get out, he'd take care of it.  In the 15 years since then I haven't seen another one, I assume I am still on a list somewhere as being ineligible.