MMA

[gryeyes]

Ill restrain myself from blaming the fighter. It was Whites responsibility to get him to sign, he failed. He is also a sheisty fucking dude more than willing to ass rape stipulations into fighters contracts who essentially have no choice. Or straight up threaten to cancel their contract and ban their entire gym if they do not sign away some of their rights for nothing.

[Cyrrex]

I'm guessing you haven't read the details.  I'll grant you that White pulls some crazy stuff, but in this case he gave in to every single demand except for one:  Fedor's M-1 manager insisted that M-1 be allowed to co-sponsor.  You know, basically give 50% of the company to M-1 (well, for at least any of the Fedor events...not sure how far beyond that it would go).  It was a ridiculous demand for several reasons, not least of which because M-1 isn't really even a promotion.

[Johny Cee]

A couple of good cards this weekend.

UFC 101 on Saturday:

Main Card

Lightweight Championship bout: B.J. Penn vs. Kenny Florian
Light Heavyweight bout: Anderson Silva vs. Forrest Griffin
Welterweight bout: Amir Sadollah vs. Johny Hendricks
Middleweight bout: Kendall Grove vs. Ricardo Almeida
Lightweight bout: Josh Neer vs. Kurt Pellegrino

Preliminary Card

Lightweight bout: Shane Nelson vs. Aaron Riley
Welterweight bout: Tamdan McCrory vs. John Howard
Middleweight bout: Thales Leites vs. Alessio Sakara
Welterweight bout: Matt Riddle vs. Dan Cramer
Lightweight bout: George Sotiropoulos vs. Rob Emerson
Welterweight bout: Jesse Lennox vs. Danillo Villefort


- BJ Penn and Florian for the LW title.  We get to see how Penn comes back from the thrashing by GSP.  Florian is on a 6 fight win streak, putting away solid guys like Joe Daddy and Joe Lauzan,  and outpointing Roger Huerta.  Penn should kill him.

- Anderson vs Forrest?  Yes please.

- Amir's debut after winning his TUF season where he had solid wins over CB Dolloway and Matt Brown.  Brown has had solid wins in the UFC at WW since the show, especially the dismantling of Pete Sell, and got robbed of a decision over the Stun Gun.  Likeable guy, classic Cinderella story as he had no pedigree and no pro fights before taking his TUF season.  Hendricks is a 4 time Div I All-American wrestler, 2 time National Champ and is making the transition into MMA.  Basically a fight of who will be a top contender a couple years down the road.

- Grove is a douche.  Almeida is a standout BJJ practioner, with alot of solid wins over top MWs including Nate Marquardt.  Almeida lost a shot at Anderson Silva when he lost a uneventful decision to Patrick Cote.

- Neer is well rounded, has a granite chin, and rivals the Diaz brothers for trash talking and grandstanding in the ring.  Pellagrino is a middle of the road LW, but tough as nails.  Will probably be an entertaining fight as both will look to bang, with Neer just wading forward and walking down Pellagrino.

- The undercard doesn't do alot for me.  Lots of young guys.  Thales Leites is back,  and will likely make short work of Sakara.


On Sunday free on Versus:

WEC 42.  WEC is owned by Zuffa (parent of UFC), focused on the lighter weight classes.  55, 45 and 35 lbers.

Miguel Torres.  He's a skinny, mulletted, Mexican fighting god who is always in great wars.  And his opponent is undefeated.  Some other solid matches on the card as well.


Strikeforce card next weekend, as well.

[Hoax]

UFC 101 on Saturday:

Main Card

Lightweight Championship bout: B.J. Penn vs. Kenny Florian
Light Heavyweight bout: Anderson Silva vs. Forrest Griffin
Welterweight bout: Amir Sadollah vs. Johny Hendricks
Middleweight bout: Kendall Grove vs. Ricardo Almeida
Lightweight bout: Josh Neer vs. Kurt Pellegrino

Preliminary Card

Lightweight bout: Shane Nelson vs. Aaron Riley
Welterweight bout: Tamdan McCrory vs. John Howard
Middleweight bout: Thales Leites vs. Alessio Sakara
Welterweight bout: Matt Riddle vs. Dan Cramer
Lightweight bout: George Sotiropoulos vs. Rob Emerson
Welterweight bout: Jesse Lennox vs. Danillo Villefort

This is a really good card, the undercard should produce 1-3 really entertaining fights with all that young talent and the top two fights should be so much fun and will say so much.  I think Florian stands some chance, but I also think he ran and went for points for 3 rounds versus Huerta so fuck Florian I want to see him get his face stomped.  Silva is in for a bit of a tough fight due to the size/strength stuff but I think Forest's "good leg kicks" aren't nearly clean enough and his boxing relies on him wading in and brawling so I just can't see how he wont get hurt versus somebody like Silva unless he executes the "plan" everybody seems to think must work and takes him down and lays on him + G&P.  I think it will come down to how badly can Anderson hurt him when they are in the clinch, if he's hurting him there its over but if Forest can get the clinch then drag him down repeatedly it could be a lame reminder why jumping weight classes isn't always a cool thing.

I want to see Almeida win, because he is so sick on the ground but Grove can hurt people and his stand up is so much better then anything I've seen Almeida do.  It will be an interesting fight for ufc fans though in terms of the styles make fights.

[Johny Cee]

Jesus fucking Christ, Anderson Silva is a scary man.  He pulled out his Matrix dodging punches act, and destroyed Forrest.  According to rumors, Anderson is now going to relinquish the MW belt, and finish out his career at LHW.  Soooo many potential great fights at LHW for Silva, and it will inject some new life into the MW division with Maia, Marquardt, Hendo and possibly Belfort or Rich hunting the title.

BJ took apart Kenny.  Diego is being tapped as next in line, and I think Diego is going to get curb stomped by BJ.  BJ's biggest threat, in my mind, is Gray Maynard, though.  Maynard is a big wrestler with explosive takedowns and some decent power in his standup.  Seems to fit the recipe for a guy that can beat BJ.

The only problem is BJ and Maynard are friends, and Maynard has gone on record as saying he doesn't want to fight BJ.  Of course, BJ being BJ, he said "I'll make him fight me." 


Just a reminder:  Tonight free on Versus is the WEC card.  Should be some great, entertaining fights at the lighter weights.  And you will get to see Miguel Torres who is probably a top 5 pound-for-pounder take on a serious threat.

[Cyrrex]

Florian had exactly the right game plan for an out of shape BJ Penn....trying to wear him down like that was the only reasonable chance he had.  Too bad BJ wasn't out of shape. 

Anderson Silva...I mean, come on.  Forrest beat Shogun.  Forrest beat Rampage Fucking Jackson.  And then Anderson Silva comes along and makes him look like a complete fool.  I expected Silva to win, but not like that.  Is it going to take another precision striker like Machida to do something about him?  We may find out.

[Rasix]

WEC card was pretty entertaining.

Torres took the same kind of shots he took from his last opponent, but Bowles just hit a hell of a lot harder.

[Slayerik]

It's like Silva was seeing him in Slow Mo. Though, Forrest isn't the fastest guy around.

[Margalis]

Anyone watch the latest Strikeforce?

It was cool to see the Armenian guy ruin Sobral, he was preternaturally calm.

On the other hand it was not cool to see Gina Carano get pounded by a woman who is twice as manly as I am. You don't see that sort of schism in men, I mean you see guys who are really ripped and guys who are out of shape but not people who appear to be of entirely different species.

[gryeyes]

Not enough competition to filter out the gene pool. Gina was naturally made the "face of the league" and was put in the ring against people she would beat. It was a foregone conclusion Cyborg would eat her.

Its gotta be disheartening for Forrest to be so outclasses, Silva was teasing him. Silva definitely pushes the barrier of disrespect in some of his fights.

[schild]

The Armenian guy would have been my favorite fight if Cyborg hadn't beaten the ever living fuck out of Gina. God. Damn. That was pleasing to watch. Also, I said one round and I got my wish. Shame they stopped the fight, I would've liked to see her face ruined.

MMA is not about being pretty. Gina needed to get her ass handed to her.

On the other hand it was not cool to see Gina Carano get pounded by a woman who is twice as manly as I am. You don't see that sort of schism in men, I mean you see guys who are really ripped and guys who are out of shape but not people who appear to be of entirely different species.

That statement qualifies as total bullshit.

[Rasix]

FALCON PUNCH.

Quite a knockout there, Mr. Marquardt.

[Evil Elvis]

That was probably the most entertaining UFC card I've seen in a while.

[DLRiley]

The Armenian guy would have been my favorite fight if Cyborg hadn't beaten the ever living fuck out of Gina. God. Damn. That was pleasing to watch. Also, I said one round and I got my wish. Shame they stopped the fight, I would've liked to see her face ruined.

MMA is not about being pretty. Gina needed to get her ass handed to her.

On the other hand it was not cool to see Gina Carano get pounded by a woman who is twice as manly as I am. You don't see that sort of schism in men, I mean you see guys who are really ripped and guys who are out of shape but not people who appear to be of entirely different species.

That statement qualifies as total bullshit.

The italic is plan wrong, funny but wrong. The bold is very true. Really women vs women fights only work if they are both participants are women. Otherwise its just a little girl vs a yeti.

[Johny Cee]

Did anyone see the Machida-Shogun fiasco?

[Evil Elvis]

Evidently not the judges.

Other than that, I thought it was a pretty good UFC.  Not a single boring fight on the main or under card.

[stray]

I didn't get to see it.. All I can do is read about it.   It sounds like another Machida affair (I do like him though, btw), but doesn't look like he stepped it up in some obvious way. Maybe he did really lose, but I hate that he's so comfortable with these kind of results sometimes. It wouldn't hurt to seal the deal.. for your own sake.. not the crowd's necessarily.

[Johny Cee]

I didn't get to see it.. All I can do is read about it.   It sounds like another Machida affair (I do like him though, btw), but doesn't look like he stepped it up in some obvious way. Maybe he did really lose, but I hate that he's so comfortable with these kind of results sometimes. It wouldn't hurt to seal the deal.. for your own sake.. not the crowd's necessarily.

Shogun countered all of Machida's attacks with heavy, heavy leg kicks or body kicks while covering up and dodging his punches.  I had it 4-1 in favor of Shogun, maybe a 3-2 as one of the early rounds was really close.

It's really deflated the aura of invincibility that Machida had going, and seems to be the blueprint for beating him: heavy leg kicks when he engages.

[stray]

That's cool. Traditional Muay Thai would instruct the same thing. Legs are the first thing that get abuse in Thailand matches. "MMA Muay Thai" fighters perhaps didn't go for that before because it emphasizes aggressive clinches and knee smashes, and all as a segue for takedowns. That kind of close aggression doesn't work against a Karate stance. So I'm glad he's here to make people think again. But also it's cool that someone made him think too. He probably needs to learn MT defense, even if he won this one.

[NiX]

How the fuck did Machida win? Shogun dominated him.

[stray]

Umm, I'm just following the scorecard mentioned here. He won "officially". Like I said, I unfortunately didn't even see it. Just saying that even if he won, sounds like he just crawled there at best. If there's a rematch, he can't act like whatever he did here worked. I think he was always riding on the belief that his defense is impenetrable, but that's against all the watered down styles mma devolved to. What happens if someone takes a measured attack themselves? It's not like Karate is impossible to fight against.

[Evildrider]

MANCHESTER, England -- Brock Lesnar will not be back in the UFC anytime soon, according to UFC president Dana White.

Speaking with the media after UFC 105, White indicated the heavyweight champion is very ill and will be out of action for the foreseeable future. He went on to state that an interim title match might need to be set up.

White did little to shed light on the specifics of Lesnar's condition, but he did say that the champion has been hospitalized.

"He's in a hospital up in North Dakota somewhere right now," said White. "He went to Canada and some bad stuff happened to him, so we've got to figure it out.

"He doesn't want to talk about it publicly, but he's in bad shape. He's not well and he's not going to be getting well anytime soon."

Lesnar pulled out of his Nov. 18 heavyweight title match with top contender Shane Carwin, and reports suggested he had swine flu. But when rumors began to circle about the rescheduled Jan. 2 date being in jeopardy, it was announced that Lesnar had mononucleosis and could be out even longer than originally thought.

Now, after White's comments, it is apparent that Lesnar is in more dire shape. He is not only suffering from mono but other ailments as well.

"He has other problems too," continued White, fielding a question about his diagnosis of mononucleosis. "He is not good. He is very, very sick and he's going to be out for a while."

White went on to state that the UFC would be doing everything in its power to help Lesnar.

"I am worried about it," said White of his biggest star's medical situation. "You know, I can't really talk about it right now, but he's in rough shape. He's in really bad shape … and we're going to have to do some stuff to take care of this guy. He is not well and he's not getting any better.

"We're going to have to send him to the Mayo Clinic or to Scripps, or one of those really good hospitals to figure out what's wrong with this guy."

[stray]

Well, I think Lesnar's a tool, but I'm not going to gloat over his sickness. Glad he's gone though. Stay gone plz.. But be healthy too.  

edit: Sigh.. I don't even know enough about him to say he's a tool. He's not a great fighter and has stupid tattoos. That's all I know.

My problem is probably more with the UFC to begin with... For scouting guys like him out. I want to see more martial artists (and a good mix of styles), not muscleheads and wrestlers. Also, I'm tired of Dana White as a "spokesman". I know UFC is a business, but his need to speak on every topic, press release etc.. irritates me. MMA should have a proper "league", not a corporation. There's this whole air about it that comes off very Vince McMahon-y/ WWF like, instead of something legit like boxing with committees and shit.

[Johny Cee]

Well, I think Lesnar's a tool, but I'm not going to gloat over his sickness. Glad he's gone though. Stay gone plz.. But be healthy too.  

edit: Sigh.. I don't even know enough about him to say he's a tool. He's not a great fighter and has stupid tattoos. That's all I know.

My problem is probably more with the UFC to begin with... For scouting guys like him out. I want to see more martial artists (and a good mix of styles), not muscleheads and wrestlers. Also, I'm tired of Dana White as a "spokesman". I know UFC is a business, but his need to speak on every topic, press release etc.. irritates me. MMA should have a proper "league", not a corporation. There's this whole air about it that comes off very Vince McMahon-y/ WWF like, instead of something legit like boxing with committees and shit.

What is a wrestler, if not a martial artist?  Takedowns, TDD, top control, cardio and weight-cutting all provide such a wide base to build other skills on the top of.  That's not too mention things like mental toughness, heart, and hips that get drilled into these guys from a very young age.

More than anything, Lesner is the prototype for what the HW division will become as the money begins to match what a guy could make by going into the NFL.  The professional/olympic level athlete that would normally get funneled into pro football or olympic level wrestling  is going to pick up MMA right out of college (if not dabbling in it after high school).

The lower weight-classes are already lousy with elite level wrestlers that have made the switch.  High school and college wrestling, more than anything else, provides a huge pool of talent for MMA. 

LW is lousy with wrestlers.  Sherk, Maynard, Edgar, Tyson Griffin, etc.
WW is also lousy with wrestlers.  GSP (who started as a traditional martial artist, but whose dominance is completely due to his wrestling and top control), Fitch, Koscheck, Hughes, Anthony Johnson.
MW is the least dominated by wrestlers, but there is still a good amount of them.  Hendo, Sonnen, Okami, Lindlind.
LHW has Tito, Babalu, Liddell (wrestling base used for TDD), Hammel, Rashad, Rampage (wrestler with solid striking), Couture, Jon Jones (state wrestling champ, junior college champion), Bader.
HW you have Lesner, Carwin (Div II standout), Velazquez, Couture.


I think it's only a matter of time before the UFC becomes another pseudo-monopoly sports conference in the US following in the footsteps of MLB, NFL, NBA, etc.  MMA is already too consolidated to fall into the multi-commission pit that boxing is in.

Granted, I might be a tad biased...   My father was a Div I HW wrestler (only 50% win percentage senior year, though he still talks about tieing the previous year's NCAA champ in a match) and my cousin was a Div III All-American.

[Evildrider]

I think alot of the hate stems just from Brock having been in pro wrestling.

[stray]

Yes, it's true.. But I have nothing against classical wrestling, be it western or eastern.. I'm just talking about the sloppy muscleheaded shit that's better off as entertainment (although some wrestlers are intelligent martial artists in their own right, I admit. I always liked the Harts, for example..). So much attention and money for some big ass WWE goober like that. Damn shame he got big by beating on a geezered out Couture too. The UFC's HW division doesn't have much else though.

[Johny Cee]

Yes, it's true.. But I have nothing against classical wrestling, be it western or eastern.. I'm just talking about the sloppy muscleheaded shit that's better off as entertainment (although some wrestlers are intelligent martial artists in their own right, I admit. I always liked the Harts, for example..). So much attention and money for some big ass WWE goober like that. Damn shame he got big by beating on a geezered out Couture too. The UFC's HW division doesn't have much else though.

The Heavyweight division across all of MMA is weak.  That's mostly due to what I was talking about above with big paying pro sports draining the talent pool.

The UFC still has the lion's share of the talent, though, just like every other division:

Lesner, Big Nog, Mir, Junior Dos Santos, Shane Carwin, Cain Velazquez, Gonzaga, Kongo, Pat Berry, Hardonk, Rothwell, Big Country....  even guys like Cro Cop and Couture and Herring who have seen better days.  That's not to mention the younger guys (TUF 10 cast who look meh, Struve, Duffee) who may turn into something in a couple of years.  Oh, and Buentello is back in the UFC.

Outside of the UFC, the only real intriguing fighters are Fedor and Overeem.  Barnett is aging and the whole steriods thing will probably mean he's out of competition in the US.  Rogers may be a talent, but I'm not sold on him...  give him a solid win against Werdum or Overeem and I'll hop on board.  Werdum is uninspiring.  Bigfoot Silva was meh in his last bout with Werdum....  and steriods.  Fedor's younger brother gets some hype, but he is off and on and may have medical issues.

Arlovski and Sylvia look like they might be done.  I think they'd both get worked by the top 4 or 5 in the UFC.

I guess Monson.

Lesner was a legit NCAA Div I wrestler (Champion and runner-up another year), and nearly made the cut as a walk on in pro football.  His personality is ass, but his skills are legit.  His gameplan against Mir (take-down, control, pound out) would demolish most of the top 10 HWs in the world.

Really, the worst thing in the illness is how many intriguing matchups there were for him:
- Carwin.  Physically close, with huge power and a very solid wrestling base.
- Nog.  One of the best sub artists in the world.  I think Nog would get man-handled, but there's always a chance of catching Lesner with a sub.
- Fedor.  The dream matchup.  Fedor has power in his hands and great subs.
- Lots of classic "striker/KO artist vs. wrestler" matchups.  Dos Santos, Kongo and Berry all have a decent chance of putting Lesner away if they can stay on their feet.  Either way, you see the monster get KOed or the monster maul a fool.

[Cyrrex]

My dislike of Lesnar stems from the fact that he is a giant prick.  That said, I still want to see him fight.  I think that 9 times out of 10, he'll demolish just about every other heavyweight out there, including Fedor.  I don't see anyone being able to stay on their feet against him, and like he showed in the Mir fight, he can throw devastating short punches when he's on top, even when his posture is all wrong.  That's a killer combination.

[stray]

There's nothing about Fedor I've ever seen that could make him lose against opponents like Brock Lesnar. He's the right combo of speed and size to negate Brock's advantages, and even if it seemed like Brock pinned him and started beating on the ground, he's uncannily self-aware even in the worst positions.

I think the only way he is ever going to get beat is just a straight up simple knockout punch. Which Brock would be too slow to pull off. Someone like Bas Rutten in his heyday would be the toughest kind of matchup for Fedor imo. Someone big, fast, and perfectly destructive on their feet. The most stupid fucking thing you could do is "pin" Fedor down.

[Cyrrex]

I disagree, but I'll explain:  I'm not talking about the usual take a guy down and then fall into the guard or half guard.  What I saw Lesnar do against Mir (and to Couture to an extent) is that he can simply lay on top of a guy and deliver DEVASTATING punches.  Lots of guys can get you down like that, but I've never seen anyone who can also deliver that kind of punishment in that position.  Everyone else has to posture up or otherwise put themselves at risk before they can rain down blows.  Lesnar seems to be so powerful that he can do it from what would to most people be a useless position.

And there's no question that he can take Fedor down.  Far lesser wrestlers have taken Fedor down.  I do think that Fedor has a better chance that most, because he could clock Lesnar with a good punch, or get him into a submission during a transition.

[stray]

Well, you make it sound like Mir got dominated. Which he didn't. He lost, but there's a difference. He had some moments of opening up on Lesnar too.


Moments which, btw, Fedor would handle differently and more efficiently. Secondly, since Fedor is such a massively skilled fighter, I don't want to hear how he's going to get beat by half-ass skills and dry humping. He's a man who must be beat by skill himself.

I'll leave it at that. I don't need to state the case of Fedor. He's virtually undefeated with 33 wins. Brock is like 4 and 1.

[Cyrrex]

From where I was watching, Mir got destroyed.  I was cringing at the hits he was taking.

If we weren't talking about Lesnar, I'd agree with you.  I just think that, barring a freak punch or submission during transition, he will basically be able to get on top of Fedor and ruin his face.  I'd like nothing more than to be horribly wrong, because I love Fedor and loathe Lesnar.  Alas, it appears we'll never know.

[stray]

Yeah, too bad we'll never see it. It seems like Fedor dislikes UFC. I don't really like it either, but he must know something we don't that'd make him go out of his way out of the league. Apparently they've offered a fuckton of money, so that isn't the issue.

[Rasix]

It seems like Fedor dislikes UFC.

Fedor's management dislikes UFC.  UFC will not do co-promotion for just one guy.  They think too highly of themselves (rightfully so in this case) to let M1 Global stick their name on the product.

I'd love to see that fight. But we've got a very sick fighter and an aging fighter with little to prove.  Fedor doesn't really have many interesting fights available outside of Overeem at Strikeforce (Werdum butt scooting for 3 rounds doesn't appeal to me).  Would like to see him fight someone that that's a legitimate threat or at least a big name.  Doubtful that will ever happen.

[Evildrider]

Yeah, too bad we'll never see it. It seems like Fedor dislikes UFC. I don't really like it either, but he must know something we don't that'd make him go out of his way out of the league. Apparently they've offered a fuckton of money, so that isn't the issue.

Supposedly they asked for half of UFC.  No way that's going to happen.