Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 10:18:12 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
we're back, baby
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Warhammer Online (Moderator: tazelbain)  |  Topic: WAR RvR Video from E3. 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] Go Down Print
Author Topic: WAR RvR Video from E3.  (Read 99291 times)
cevik
I'm Special
Posts: 1690

I've always wondered about the All Black People Eat Watermelons


Reply #245 on: August 18, 2008, 01:54:04 PM

I think the counterpoint is that you're not "fighting" the monsters.  Rather, you're managing your interface and using mods to make this management process more efficient.  It's a problem with the game moreso than with the user.   

And the difference between WoW and almost any other game is that WoW lets you modify the UI to your liking, so that when you "aren't fighting the monster" you at least aren't being forced to fight the UI.  It's not like you really feel like you're "fighting" the monster in a game like Final Fantasy, or pretty much any other game that exists.

I think the reason WoW felt compelled to allow UI addons, whereas single player games often don't, is the number of hours spent playing WoW.  I'm sure that screenshot above looks chaotic as hell to you and if your interface were like that you would feel like you were playing the UI and not the game, but I'm sure to the guy who uses it it feels like he's fighting the monster just as much as he feels in any other game, because that's the UI he's used to seeing and he knows what parts to focus on and when.

The above space is available for purchase.  Send a Private Message for a complete price list and payment information.  Thank you for your business.
MahrinSkel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10857

When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #246 on: August 18, 2008, 02:31:42 PM

I've been pursuing a theory that gameplay ultimately comes down to a handful of puzzle types, and that much of what we've thought of as game design is really just finding ways to disguise those puzzles.  Screenshots like that go a long way towards vindicating the theory (because when the players can, they strip away the disguise).

--Dave

--Signature Unclear
IainC
Developers
Posts: 6538

Wargaming.net


WWW
Reply #247 on: August 18, 2008, 04:23:20 PM

I've been pursuing a theory that gameplay ultimately comes down to a handful of puzzle types, and that much of what we've thought of as game design is really just finding ways to disguise those puzzles.  Screenshots like that go a long way towards vindicating the theory (because when the players can, they strip away the disguise).

--Dave

Raph said that a while ago. Gameplay is basically interconnecting minigames that are connected through increasingly complex minigames into an overarching metagame.

- And in stranger Iains, even Death may die -

SerialForeigner Photography.
MahrinSkel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10857

When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #248 on: August 18, 2008, 04:49:39 PM

Yeah, I know.  I think I've managed to drill a level deeper (to where those minigames are all the same), but I'm still working through the implications.  There are some definite phase transitions on the way up the scale, where progress is not just a fractal elaboration on the theme.

--Dave

--Signature Unclear
Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536


Reply #249 on: August 18, 2008, 05:37:21 PM

There is no spoon.

WoW mods to me are just again getting to the heart of the experience. At the level of play shown in that screenie, the graphics and the world basically don't matter. If you achieve that level of immersion, as someone said, you truly are ready for Eve. Or to teach advanced statistics. smiley
Sunbury
Terracotta Army
Posts: 216


Reply #250 on: August 19, 2008, 05:47:33 AM

Who'd a thunk it 10 years ago that the most popular 3d MMORPG today would look like playing Windows 3?

I would have guessed that by now when we checked our inventory, the screen would show us rummaging around in a 3d in-world knapsack, the damage done to monsters and players would be visible on the avatars, etc, but not a 2d overlay of data.
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42628

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #251 on: August 19, 2008, 09:12:05 AM

Yeah, I know.  I think I've managed to drill a level deeper (to where those minigames are all the same), but I'm still working through the implications.  There are some definite phase transitions on the way up the scale, where progress is not just a fractal elaboration on the theme.

--Dave

It's all just about manipulating that joy buzzer part of our tiny little snake brains.

Mrbloodworth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15148


Reply #252 on: August 19, 2008, 09:14:14 AM

Heart mods.




You know what this means? The UI is broken.

Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
www.mrbloodworthproductions.com  www.amuletsbymerlin.com
Nebu
Terracotta Army
Posts: 17613


Reply #253 on: August 19, 2008, 09:29:23 AM

That picture just shows me how much MMO's are still about spreadsheet gameplay.  You may as well just paste a spreadsheet on a Vargas painting and call it a game.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
HRose
I'm Special
Posts: 1205

VIKLAS!


WWW
Reply #254 on: August 19, 2008, 10:53:12 AM

I've been pursuing a theory that gameplay ultimately comes down to a handful of puzzle types, and that much of what we've thought of as game design is really just finding ways to disguise those puzzles.  Screenshots like that go a long way towards vindicating the theory (because when the players can, they strip away the disguise).
Now you sound like Raph Koster.

I'll spare you the point where I say myths trump mechanics.

-HRose / Abalieno
cesspit.net
waylander
Terracotta Army
Posts: 526


Reply #255 on: August 19, 2008, 11:02:15 AM

Heart mods.




You know what this means? The UI is broken.

That is just way too much crap to keep up with. You can't PVP worth anything with a 1 centimeter viewing space after accounting for every UI mod window you have to have open.

Lords of the Dead
Gaming Press - Retired
justdave
Terracotta Army
Posts: 462


Reply #256 on: August 19, 2008, 11:05:39 AM

Heart mods.




You know what this means? The UI is broken.

That is just way too much crap to keep up with. You can't PVP worth anything with a 1 centimeter viewing space after accounting for every UI mod window you have to have open.

That's because this setup is only for dynamic and challenging PvE encounters.  awesome, for real

"They started to resist with a crust that was welded with human brain and willpower."
MahrinSkel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10857

When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #257 on: August 19, 2008, 11:20:07 AM

I've been pursuing a theory that gameplay ultimately comes down to a handful of puzzle types, and that much of what we've thought of as game design is really just finding ways to disguise those puzzles.  Screenshots like that go a long way towards vindicating the theory (because when the players can, they strip away the disguise).
Now you sound like Raph Koster.

I'll spare you the point where I say myths trump mechanics.
That would be one of the "Phase Transitions" I was speaking of (there are 5 of them).  The one between "Structure" and "Deconstruction" to be specific.  Which is probably way too cryptic, but I'm not ready to expose the whole framework to critique yet.

--Dave

--Signature Unclear
Soln
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4737

the opportunity for evil is just delicious


Reply #258 on: August 19, 2008, 11:27:25 AM

Is your "Maize" essay still around here?  Ya'll need a website or something ;)
justdave
Terracotta Army
Posts: 462


Reply #259 on: August 19, 2008, 01:38:20 PM

Is your "Maize" essay still around here?  Ya'll need a website or something ;)

You meen zees?

"They started to resist with a crust that was welded with human brain and willpower."
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021


Reply #260 on: August 20, 2008, 08:53:08 PM

Some people find fucking with spreadsheets fun. News at 11.

This discussion about what is and isn't a game and what is and isn't fun is silly. Some one guy likes watching a cow smash an elf and seeing blood spurting that indicates the grevious bodily harm he is inflicting. Another likes watching the numbers that come up and keping track of various timers in order to maximise the number of damage he can do within the constraints of the system as he understands it. Another likes putting numbers into spreadsheets in order to work out how the system works in order to code ui elements which then pass this information on to players.

Insofar as you are relating to the game in some manner you can say what you're doing is gameplay, insofar as you enjoy what you are doing you can say what you are doing is fun.

I mean, I post on forums about games because I find it fun. When I discuss the merits of a certain talent or ability on the EJ forums I enjoy myself, and I enjoy muself because of the relationship between that conversation and the game. I sometimes find it more fun that actually logging into WoW and 'playing' the game. Messing about with numbers, thoughts and opinions, within and without the gameworld itself, is a gameplay element.
cevik
I'm Special
Posts: 1690

I've always wondered about the All Black People Eat Watermelons


Reply #261 on: August 20, 2008, 09:18:51 PM

Some people find fucking with spreadsheets fun. News at 11.

This discussion about what is and isn't a game and what is and isn't fun is silly. Some one guy likes watching a cow smash an elf and seeing blood spurting that indicates the grevious bodily harm he is inflicting. Another likes watching the numbers that come up and keping track of various timers in order to maximise the number of damage he can do within the constraints of the system as he understands it. Another likes putting numbers into spreadsheets in order to work out how the system works in order to code ui elements which then pass this information on to players.

Insofar as you are relating to the game in some manner you can say what you're doing is gameplay, insofar as you enjoy what you are doing you can say what you are doing is fun.

I mean, I post on forums about games because I find it fun. When I discuss the merits of a certain talent or ability on the EJ forums I enjoy myself, and I enjoy muself because of the relationship between that conversation and the game. I sometimes find it more fun that actually logging into WoW and 'playing' the game. Messing about with numbers, thoughts and opinions, within and without the gameworld itself, is a gameplay element.

The problem with your theory is that if you don't have fun the way I tell you to have fun, then you're doing it wrong.

The above space is available for purchase.  Send a Private Message for a complete price list and payment information.  Thank you for your business.
lamaros
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8021


Reply #262 on: August 20, 2008, 09:24:54 PM

I always forget the fundamentals.  cry
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Warhammer Online (Moderator: tazelbain)  |  Topic: WAR RvR Video from E3.  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC