NVIDIA meltdown in progress

[Montague]

So I'm safe with the 8800 GTS I got three months ago?

[WayAbvPar]

Look at it this way, you didn't lose a video card, you gained a class action lawsuit!   

If it turns out that way, it won't be the first time I've had a product that was part of one.

Sounds like someone needs a Consumer Reports subscription 

[Jimbo]

Grrr...
I got almost everything to upgrade the two computers, from an Abit IX38 Quad GT, 4 gigs of cosair mem, E8400 3.0 Intel Duo Processor, Asus sound card, window vista x64, and the DVD's and stuff, but haven't bought the two video cards.  I was planing on either of these two: BFG or XFX video cards.  But then I was reading reviews of how ATI cards are tearing it up, so what do you all think of PowerColor, Gigabyte, HIS, and Sapphire?  After reading on Tom's hardware, I really like the idea of using ATI over Nvidia this time, but how are driver support?

[NiX]

Sounds like someone needs a Consumer Reports subscription 

I never thought my iPod Mini would crap out like it did in terms of battery life. Turns out I wasn't the only one unhappy about it.

[Trippy]

So I'm safe with the 8800 GTS I got three months ago?

As far as we know at this point, yes.

[Margalis]

And I think it's only going to get worse.  Intel seems to be serious about increasing the amount of cores they can pack into a chipset.  Eventually it's got to come down to the fact that we won't need a dedicated GPU running vector-based graphics since we'll have excess cores that can just crunch out rasterized graphics.

These things tend to swing back and forth but given how ultra-specialized graphics cards have become I can't see general CPUs encroaching on that any time soon.

[Engels]

I'm actually thinking about buying an aftermarket cooling solution for my video card.  This is something I never would have even considered in the past.

I did that for my 8800gt, worked fine. But the 4870 runs at no more than 60C under heavy load with the fan set to 60% minimum, and that's only in Crysis. I'd fire up a heat monitoring program and track what temps yours gets to. And I think most/all the 4850s vent into the case, so make sure you've got enough airflow to get the heat away. No good having the fan set high if it just turns the whole case into an easy bake oven.

I've been experiencing some pretty out of whack temps on my 8800gt, myself, playing AoC. Starts out fine at idle of about 64 or so, but then skyrockets up. Only with the fan at 50% with an additional PCI cooler strapped under neath can I keep the card's temps below 90 degrees.

Can anyone recommend a good aftermarket GPU cooler for an 8800gt?

[fuser]

Can anyone recommend a good aftermarket GPU cooler for an 8800gt?

Accelero S1 Rev. 2 supports all new ATI cards too 

HardOCP review where prices are ~25$

[Kitsune]

What the inquirer article pretty much said was the defect is caused by hot->cold->hot cycles, which is more prevalent in laptops than desktops (since laptops tend to be turned on and off more often), which is why the failure rates from desktops are less.

The words you're looking for are 'metal fatigue'.  It's the specter behind any and all thermal failures short of actually bursting into flame.  So the bare fact is that those chips heat up more than they were built to tolerate.  The metal expands when it heats so much, contracts when it cools, and can only take but so much of the back and forth wiggling before *snap* goes a circuit.

It's not just any on/off cycle involved, there's the simple fact that most laptops don't have shit for cooling; certainly not a big dedicated heat sink/fan sitting on the GPU.  They're probably using crappy heat pipes hooked to the CPU's heat sink with one little fan trying to serve the entire computer, and the lack of space inside the laptop turns it into an oven.  Desktop video cards are given vastly superior cooling, so I doubt many of the desktop cards will be failing.  Those that do will likely be cards that some idiots overclocked to get that precious extra 0.83 FPS.

[Engels]

Thanks for the linkeage, fuser. I think after reading those reviews, I'll probably end up getting the trusty Zalman VF-900. Well rounded scores and the lowest noise level at high speed.

[Sir T]

Glad I read this thread. i've been thinking of getting a budget card and I usually go with Nvidia. I guess its time to dump the Nvidia drivers...

[Hawkbit]

I could swear I was reading a Nvidia statement a month or two ago that said something like:  lalalala Intel is going under because in the near future all Nvidia products are going to be gpu/cpus that plug directly into MBs, which will inevitably lead to Nvidia selling all-in-one console-type computers.  Or something like that.  Without as much asshatery. 

[sinij]

I have slot fan sitting next to my video card, it reduces card temperature by 2-5C. I also moved HDD to upper and lower position, leaving large gap for chassis fan to move air toward video card.

[sinij]

I got almost everything to downgrade the two computers, from an Abit IX38 Quad GT, 4 gigs of cosair mem, E8400 3.0 Intel Duo Processor, Asus sound card, window vista x64, and the DVD's and stuff

Don't do it.

[Tale]

The words you're looking for are 'metal fatigue'.  It's the specter behind any and all thermal failures short of actually bursting into flame.  So the bare fact is that those chips heat up more than they were built to tolerate.  The metal expands when it heats so much, contracts when it cools, and can only take but so much of the back and forth wiggling before *snap* goes a circuit.

It's not just any on/off cycle involved, there's the simple fact that most laptops don't have shit for cooling; certainly not a big dedicated heat sink/fan sitting on the GPU.  They're probably using crappy heat pipes hooked to the CPU's heat sink with one little fan trying to serve the entire computer, and the lack of space inside the laptop turns it into an oven.  Desktop video cards are given vastly superior cooling, so I doubt many of the desktop cards will be failing.  Those that do will likely be cards that some idiots overclocked to get that precious extra 0.83 FPS.

I used to have a graphics card that ran too hot and was unstable. I stabilised it by underclocking it. Could that be the short-term solution for users of affected NVidia cards?

[Tale]

So I'm safe with the 8800 GTS I got three months ago?

My 8800 GTS 320Mb is the most stable, reliable video card I've ever owned.

[Trippy]

I used to have a graphics card that ran too hot and was unstable. I stabilised it by underclocking it. Could that be the short-term solution for users of affected NVidia cards?

Maybe. NVIDIA's solution to the problem is to release a driver update to laptop manufacturers that kicks in the system fans earlier. Underclocking the GPU may lower the temps enough to do the same thing.

[eldaec]

I could swear I was reading a Nvidia statement a month or two ago that said something like:  lalalala Intel is going under because in the near future all Nvidia products are going to be gpu/cpus that plug directly into MBs, which will inevitably lead to Nvidia selling all-in-one console-type computers. 

A month or two ago I was also reading a story about unicorns, rainbows, and wishes... to my niece.

[Bungee]

Ask Schild about the 8800gt versus the 9800gtx sometime :P

The ATI 4850 beats them both. For less money ;)

But it's ATI...

Never again.

 
 

[sinij]

ATI's video cards might give out BJs while you play and cure cancer... I still won't buy them due to bad experiences I had with ATI cards.

[Strazos]

I've had 3 ATI cards die on me in a year-and a half timespan. In all three, the fan bearings crapped out.

[Engels]

That might have a lot more to do with which manufacturer you used rather than ATI. I imagine that what cooling parts are used is left up to the manufacturer, and that ATI only has vague guidelines for a required cooling system.

[Fabricated]

I had a 9800XT back in the day and it was a kickass card. The problem is that it took like 6-7 driver releases for all of my games to work.

[Strazos]

That might have a lot more to do with which manufacturer you used rather than ATI. I imagine that what cooling parts are used is left up to the manufacturer, and that ATI only has vague guidelines for a required cooling system.

Just the ATi-Branded ones, not some 3rd party thing.

[Miasma]

I'm also in the camp that doesn't trust ATI due to past experience.  I'm not one of these people who love and defend a particular graphics card manufacturer but until I hear that ATI's problems with drivers, product quality, their awful support and website have all been fixed I won't be buying another one of their cards.  It will take a good year of people saying "they don't suck anymore" before I will hop on this pendulum which is apparently swinging back to ATI.

[Selby]

Am I the only one who has never lost a video card from any manufacturer due to hardware failure?  All of the ATI hate...

[Murgos]

Am I the only one who has never lost a video card from any manufacturer due to hardware failure?  All of the ATI hate...

No, I've had a uniformly good experience with ATI cards.  They usually, in my experience, were more performance for a lower price than NVidia and I've never really had any serious problems with drivers.  That said I am running an NVidia card now because ATI just kind of disappeared for the last few competitive cycles.  I'm glad to see that they are back.

[Big Gulp]

Am I the only one who has never lost a video card from any manufacturer due to hardware failure?  All of the ATI hate...

One time for me, and that was an nVidia card.  Of course, I have no real bias towards any video card.  For the most part they've all done the job they were designed for.

[Tale]

I had a 9800XT back in the day and it was a kickass card. The problem is that it took like 6-7 driver releases for all of my games to work.

I have avoided ATI cards since having a 9600XT. It was often unstable (freezing, blue screens) and yes, the drivers were never right. Also, the overdrive or whatever the XT function was called, was a recipe for more instability, not the extra speed promised. So I had to run it as a plain old 9600 with that switched off. It was also weak in Windows - needed to mess with the colour settings to have things look acceptable, and video playback was never quite as smooth as it should have been. To my eye, the nVidia cards I've owned have been perfect in Windows.

After that I had an nVidia 6800GS which was great. But I spilt red wine into my PC and killed it, so I used the ATI card again temporarily before getting my 8800GTS. Same ATI problems again, even in a new system. It reminded me of my old ATI Mach64 back in the 2D 1990s which had a similar range of problems.

[HaemishM]

I had an ATI 9600 for years, and just now replaced it. I've had good luck with ATI. The worst cards I ever had were the Nvidia 6200 and the Nvidia GeForce 4 MX, which was total shit.

[Cheddar]

Am I the only one who has never lost a video card from any manufacturer due to hardware failure?  All of the ATI hate...

No, I've had a uniformly good experience with ATI cards.  They usually, in my experience, were more performance for a lower price than NVidia and I've never really had any serious problems with drivers.  That said I am running an NVidia card now because ATI just kind of disappeared for the last few competitive cycles.  I'm glad to see that they are back.

Word for word my exact experience. 

[Alkiera]

I have switched back and forth; had a hardware failure with a ATI card (9600 Pro) from a 3rd party manufacturer, went with an nVidia 8800 GTS 640MB to replace it.  The 8800 just doesn't quit.  It's quiet, and even with an older CPU, runs AoC on high settings at a decent framerate.

Generally nVidia has fewer problems because of the 'Way it's Meant To Be Played' program, which seems to bribe developers into only testing on their hardware, so wacky crap happens on ATI cards.  Driver quality is kinda up in the air for both companies, nVidia just does a better job of working with dev houses.

[TripleDES]

Due to choice of operating system, I'm practically locked onto NVidia. Their *nix drivers are actually pretty decent. So I'm not switching unless ATi gets their act together or NVidia goes bankrupt.

[Ironwood]

Not long to go then ?

[Trippy]

Due to choice of operating system, I'm practically locked onto NVidia. Their *nix drivers are actually pretty decent. So I'm not switching unless ATi gets their act together or NVidia goes bankrupt.

If this is Linux you are talking about see here:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_evolution&num=1
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ati_radeonhd_4870&num=1