Star Trek Online: Here We Go Again!

[Jayce]

Wow... another classic and, at this point in history, unforgivable, mistake.

"People won't hit Admiral that fast.. will they?"

[UnSub]

I can't imagine that working at Cryptic would be much fun at all right now.

[01101010]

So basically its still in beta, only now they charge you a monthly fee on top of the box cost. I love the justifications in condemning the guy for burning through the game - More proof that fanboys really can't see the forest for the trees.

[Nebu]

I know... I know... the endgame is part of the miracle patch that happens 3 months after release! 

[Malakili]

This isn't surprising at all, there were hints of this in beta from people who got up higher and said there wasn't much content.   Hell, Champions was the same way, though there were 2 lairs I guess.  Frankly though, I think this is much more egregious than Champions.  Creating new characters was, and remains a viable answer to what is cool about Champions.  In Star Trek Online, hell, they only give you TWO character slots, alting is not meant to be a viable option, nor does it seem like an especially desirable option.

I just hope the poor bastard that hit max level in 5 days didn't buy a lifetime of yearly recurring sub plan.

[Modern Angel]

They upped the character slots to three, as an fyi.

I'm not surprised. There's never been a Cryptic game that's shipped with any sort of endgame content. Or even an idea of what they want in an endgame. That's why I'm a Lt. Commander 2 and laughing as people I know charge all the way up the ranks as fast as they can. This game does one style of play well and it happens to be exactly the same one as CO: quick, 30 minute sessions where you blow some shit up.

And of course that guy has a lifetime sub.

[Sky]

Guy buys a lifetime sub and then catasses to max level in five days and the problem is with the game. Right.

[Modern Angel]

Well, yeah, that was my initial reaction. Still no excuse for having exactly zero endgame stuff in place. It's a bunch of sad all the way around.

[Vodos]

It's not like he's crying for raids, he'd be happy with even same-level mobs to grind for level-appropriate gear. If there's no way to advance your character even one tiny bit at max level, that is the game's problem.

[Malakili]

Guy buys a lifetime sub and then catasses to max level in five days and the problem is with the game. Right.

*shrugs* Its just simply the case of people who are hardcore MMO players now being in a genre for casual players.  It really doesn't matter whose fault it is, the genre is evolving, and plenty of older school players who are accustomed to games that they can put 12 hours a day into without ever really feeling a reason to stop have apparently not realized that its an unrealistic expectation at this point.  

I frankly don't care if someone has 12+ hours a day to put into a game, let along if they actually do it.  As much as we like to make fun of poopsocks around here, but the genre is obviously moving away from games that are going to please that type of player.  Star Trek is no exception.    

The real issue at hand is that a month or two down the road, when lots of people start maxing out, there still won't be max level content.

[ghost]

That idiot's personal issues have nothing to do with the quality, or lack thereof, of the game.  I guess not having things to do at the level finish is inappropriate.  This is a different question, but we are trained that games need an "end game" for some reason.  Is there really anything wrong with a game just being done?  I don't have a problem with that, although clearly Cryptic was being unethical if that was their plan and they were selling lifetime subs. 

[Malakili]

That idiot's personal issues have nothing to do with the quality, or lack thereof, of the game.  I guess not having things to do at the level finish is inappropriate.  This is a different question, but we are trained that games need an "end game" for some reason.  Is there really anything wrong with a game just being done?  I don't have a problem with that, although clearly Cryptic was being unethical if that was their plan and they were selling lifetime subs. 

There is nothing wrong in principle with a game just being done.  The fact remains that MMOs, at least hypothetically, are not supposed to "end."  It supposed to be more about controlling a character in a virtual world than playing through a storyline, or content, or whatever.  Obviously I am not saying every MMO is a sandbox, but if MMOs are now just like every other RPG, and we are ok with that, well, then the genre is meaningless.

[Nebu]

If I were in the game making business and I knew that I had produced an incredible game, I'd be hesitant to offer lifetime subscriptions prior to release without a pretty clear picture of what my churn rate would be.  It makes me wonder how much Blizzard's bottom line might have changed had they offered lifetime subs at release.  Now I need to see if I can find any data on the average sub length for a WoW subscriber.  

Seeing a lifetime sub offered so readily, gives me concern about the quality of the game.  It's like an insurance policy... they're betting that you quit before you get full value from your subscription. 

[Malakili]

If I were in the game making business and I knew that I had produced an incredible game, I'd be hesitant to offer lifetime subscriptions prior to release without a pretty clear picture of what my churn rate would be.  It makes me wonder how much Blizzard's bottom line might have changed had they offered lifetime subs at release.  Now I need to see if I can find any data on the average sub length for a WoW subscriber.  

Seeing a lifetime sub offered so readily, gives me concern about the quality of the game.  It's like an insurance policy... they're betting that you quit before you get full value from your subscription. 

The other question is how long people play and who would have purchased the lifetime.  if lots of people purchase the lifetime, but would've played for less time than the lifetime amounts to, generally somewhere in the 1-2 year range, then the company comes out ahead.  If your long term players all have it though, you come out behind.  My point being that simply knowing average sub length isn't going to necessarily get you the information you need. 

Lifetime subs seem to be a hit or miss type of thing.  I know a lot of LOTRO players that have it and are 100% happy with the decision.  Of course, you could find a lot of Hellgate: London players who are probably still a bit disgruntled about that.

  I will say this though, from talking to people that have lifetime subs, one thing they like is that it "lets" them play the game simply for fun.  Money doesn't factor into it anymore, its already been spent, and they feel free to play the game when they want, or not when they don't want.  There might be something to be said for that, but its a pretty hefty up front cost for the luxury.

[Lantyssa]

In and of itself, a lifetime sub's value to the company is more than just whether a player plays past that magical break-even point.  If they quit early then sure, there is a monetary gain.  If they stick around, however, they might have brought friends to the game or belong to some social structure which helps with retention.  They provide another body in the world to make it feel populated.  An active player is more likely to buy expansions or participate in RMT if there is no monthly fee dangling over their head.

The value of the lifetime sub is much greater to the company.  If the game is good.  If too many felt suckered then it's bad for the industry and crippling to your company.

[Nebu]

In and of itself, a lifetime sub's value to the company is more than just whether a player plays past that magical break-even point.  If they quit early then sure, there is a monetary gain.  If they stick around, however, they might have brought friends to the game or belong to some social structure which helps with retention.  They provide another body in the world to make it feel populated.  An active player is more likely to buy expansions or participate in RMT if there is no monthly fee dangling over their head.

Excellent points.  I didn't even consider the impact of these in my earlier comment.  Now I know why I'd be a terrible businessman.

[Shatter]

The problem in this instance and with Cryptic, knowing what they are like and how their last MMO came out its hard not to see the lifetime sub for them as a money grab since almost everything they do is exaclty that.  Additional character slots, specific races, added content(not a full blown xpac) which they are charging for is typically free in most MMO's. 

[Malakili]

The problem in this instance and with Cryptic, knowing what they are like and how their last MMO came out its hard not to see the lifetime sub for them as a money grab since almost everything they do is exaclty that.  Additional character slots, specific races, added content(not a full blown xpac) which they are charging for is typically free in most MMO's. 

Frankly, I don't care too much about that model per se, as much as I care about the fact that it is shoddy.  If the game was amazing, noone would be caring about the fact that they had the option of shelling out a few bucks for these things.  The fact of the matter the game is average, and these sorts of things end up making the whole thing appear bush league.

[Riggswolfe]

Wow... another classic and, at this point in history, unforgivable, mistake.

"People won't hit Admiral that fast.. will they?"

As everyone else has said, they should have endgame content. However, if I posted in that thread my entire post would probably be *points and laughs at the sucker!*

I plan to be casual as hell about this game if I even keep it past the free month which is by no means guranteed. I do wonder what this 45 day patch is I keep hearing about. Is it fanboy dreaming or is the first major post-release patch and I've just managed not to hear anything about it?

[ghost]

If I were in the game making business and I knew that I had produced an incredible game, I'd be hesitant to offer lifetime subscriptions prior to release without a pretty clear picture of what my churn rate would be.  It makes me wonder how much Blizzard's bottom line might have changed had they offered lifetime subs at release.  Now I need to see if I can find any data on the average sub length for a WoW subscriber.  

Seeing a lifetime sub offered so readily, gives me concern about the quality of the game.  It's like an insurance policy... they're betting that you quit before you get full value from your subscription. 

The MMO business is like a larger version scale of my own.  I would assume that they would prefer to have a monthly fee as that is constant, incoming revenue.  What happens when a substantial chunk of your potential clients pays up front?  I really can't believe that any MMO would offer a lifetime subscription, unless they plan on ending the game early.  I bought one for LOTRO, but in retrospect wouldn't do it again.

[Surlyboi]

If you poopsocked your way to the mythical endgame in your first five days of play, fuck you. I have no sympathy if you find out there's no "there" there.

[Montague]

Wow... another classic and, at this point in history, unforgivable, mistake.

"People won't hit Admiral that fast.. will they?"

As everyone else has said, they should have endgame content. However, if I posted in that thread my entire post would probably be *points and laughs at the sucker!*

I plan to be casual as hell about this game if I even keep it past the free month which is by no means guranteed. I do wonder what this 45 day patch is I keep hearing about. Is it fanboy dreaming or is the first major post-release patch and I've just managed not to hear anything about it?

http://www.startrekonline.com/upcoming_content

First raid episode is scheduled for a week after launch.

[Shatter]

Wow... another classic and, at this point in history, unforgivable, mistake.

"People won't hit Admiral that fast.. will they?"

As everyone else has said, they should have endgame content. However, if I posted in that thread my entire post would probably be *points and laughs at the sucker!*

I plan to be casual as hell about this game if I even keep it past the free month which is by no means guranteed. I do wonder what this 45 day patch is I keep hearing about. Is it fanboy dreaming or is the first major post-release patch and I've just managed not to hear anything about it?

http://www.startrekonline.com/upcoming_content

First raid episode is scheduled for a week after launch.

Correct me if Im wrong, but isnt this basically going to be untested new content which as we know will either work like shit...or....will be exploited all to hell and back? 

[Ghambit]

Wow... another classic and, at this point in history, unforgivable, mistake.

"People won't hit Admiral that fast.. will they?"

As everyone else has said, they should have endgame content. However, if I posted in that thread my entire post would probably be *points and laughs at the sucker!*

I plan to be casual as hell about this game if I even keep it past the free month which is by no means guranteed. I do wonder what this 45 day patch is I keep hearing about. Is it fanboy dreaming or is the first major post-release patch and I've just managed not to hear anything about it?

http://www.startrekonline.com/upcoming_content

First raid episode is scheduled for a week after launch.

Correct me if Im wrong, but isnt this basically going to be untested new content which as we know will either work like shit...or....will be exploited all to hell and back? 

The guys that blasted their way to Admiral 5 will be the testers.   

[Goreschach]

If you poopsocked your way to the mythical endgame in your first five days of play, fuck you. I have no sympathy if you find out there's no "there" there.

Stop this shit. After five years of this kind of crap, Cryptic should know by know that if you don't ship with the game fucking finished, then no matter how quickly you try to shovel out a 'miracle patch' that there will be people who beat you to it. How many mmo's now have bombed because they were shipped out half baked?

[Nebu]

I think it's funny.  We're all conditioned to expect MMO's to launch unfinished and incomplete.  So much so that we make excuses for them when they continue to do it. 

Even hardcore gamers will take 40 hours to complete many quality single player games.  If they want to at least justify the box cost, let alone a sub fee, they should provide that much at the very least. 

[tazelbain]

If you poopsocked your way to the mythical endgame in your first five days of play, fuck you. I have no sympathy if you find out there's no "there" there.

Stop this shit. After five years of this kind of crap, Cryptic should know by know that if you don't ship with the game fucking finished, then no matter how quickly you try to shovel out a 'miracle patch' that there will be people who beat you to it. How many mmo's now have bombed because they were shipped out half baked?

If someone is buying STO at this point they deserve whatever they get.  Cryptic isn't hiding what they are doing.

[Murgos]

I know that no one here cares but; I know several people who are first time MMO players (though not new to computer gaming) and picked this up simply because of the Star Trek license.

They are having a blast and every single gripe listed on the last three pages of this thread is completely meaningless to them.

You guys are the lunatic fringe.

[Malakili]

You guys are the lunatic fringe.

And i wouldn't have it any other way 

[Stormwaltz]

Even hardcore gamers will take 40 hours to complete many quality single player games.  If they want to at least justify the box cost, let alone a sub fee, they should provide that much at the very least.

According to Xfire, I've played STO for 16 hours since Saturday. I'm only Lieutenant 8 and I'm still flying a newbie ship. A guess says it will be about another 60 hours and four weeks before I get to Admiral 5.

I think my box cost is covered, assuming I stick with the game to the level cap.

[Nebu]

According to Xfire, I've played STO for 16 hours since Saturday. I'm only Lieutenant 8 and I'm still flying a newbie ship. A guess says it will be about another 60 hours and four weeks before I get to Admiral 5.

I think my box cost is covered, assuming I stick with the game to the level cap.

Good to know.  I've come to expect 40 hours of reasonable fun as my baseline.  If I get that, I'm ok with buying.  I got well more than that out of Vanguard, though I was ridiculed for even mentioning it. 

[Riggswolfe]

If you poopsocked your way to the mythical endgame in your first five days of play, fuck you. I have no sympathy if you find out there's no "there" there.

Stop this shit. After five years of this kind of crap, Cryptic should know by know that if you don't ship with the game fucking finished, then no matter how quickly you try to shovel out a 'miracle patch' that there will be people who beat you to it. How many mmo's now have bombed because they were shipped out half baked?

While Cryptic deserves shit for shipping an incomplete game I refuse to feel sympathy for a dude that probably hasn't had a shower in the last week all so he can max out a character.

[waylander]

1 Million STO Accounts

Well, we've seen this movie before.  Big box sale announcement, followed by the excuse train as subs crash, followed by server mergers, followed by invite a friend promotions, followed by more server mergers, followed by F2P or game closure.

Cryptic is the master of reusing content over and over until it drive you insane, and STO doesn't sound any different.

[Malakili]

1 Million STO Accounts

Well, we've seen this movie before.  Big box sale announcement, followed by the excuse train as subs crash, followed by server mergers, followed by invite a friend promotions, followed by more server mergers, followed by F2P or game closure.

Cryptic is the master of reusing content over and over until it drive you insane, and STO doesn't sound any different.

Didn't we already decide that this annoucement was probably magical marketing designed to make 1 million forum accounts look like 1 million boxes sold?

[01101010]

Someone give me a nudge when this thing bottoms into the $20 range.