Star Trek Online: Here We Go Again!

[Furiously]

And more beta keys...

http://nzone.com/object/nzone_startrekonline_form.html

[Surlyboi]

Don't tell me this game is worth buying.

Of course I go to try it tonight and it's down for maintenance.

Three fucking hour server maintenance. 

[Triforcer]

The PvP is rather entertaining and enough to make me glad I preordered.  Ground PvE is meh, Ground PvP is meh-to-bad, Space PvE is as entertaining as PvE can ever be, I suppose.

[Surlyboi]

I kinda like the ground combat.

[Riggswolfe]

I kinda like the ground combat.

Don't lie.

He's right. It actually has some interesting aspects to it. Heck, the bridge crew alone is sorta neat especially since choosing your bridge crew is practically a game in itself.

[Ghambit]

Each type of combat (space and ground) has its moments.  Both systems are good systems, period (there's a helluva lot worse out there right now)...  I mean cmon, you've got PotBS's ship combat and Gods&Heroes' ground combat - both of which received very positive feedback, all fleshed out in Trek.  There's really not much room to "whine" about this system.  The problems lie in mission design and difficulty tweaks, which means it's a crap shoot.

Right now also, everything is too easy so people can blow through content.  So 90% of "real combat" is unnecessary; it's more wack-a-mole.  Once the nerf-bat comes though I really feel like the system will shine (unlike prior Emmert games).  There's a LOT going on with STO's combat both on the ground and space; in many ways it's designed to handle difficult situations just by shear volume of tactical choice (and strategic if you can stay cloaked or dodge sensors etc; which allows you a refit).  When situations are easy though, it fails hard.

The other issue I have mission-wise is simply presentation.  Tonight I ran an exciting mission to save some scientists from some particularly ruthless reptilian Gorn on a swamp planet.  There was mortar fire (rally points ftw), quicksand, dogs, patrols, giant boulder-throwing super-gorn, and more.  BUT, the presentation was a bit bland.  It's not the terrain per se, but the art assets on them.  Buildings arent very creatively designed and interactible objects are too simple.  But hey, the mission itself was pretty well done.

Combatwise my only remaining complaint is that I really would've liked loadout options.  There are some really great strat. opportunities if you can quickly refit different kits OOC.  The synergy this has with cloaking, running (i.e. full power to engines), using 'roids, mag. fields, etc. is pretty groovy.  BUT, they screwed up the toolbar capabilities and ended up nixing the ability to equip/de-equip from the toolbar.  So NOW you have to manually refit each slot from the inventory... which sux.  It's a good example of how something so simple can effect a much larger combat mechanic.  And since people are too lazy to loadout strategically, when combat gets difficult they whine it's too hard, when in fact they're really just not playing the game properly.

But leave it to Cryptic to screw up what could potentially be a pretty rewarding combat system.

[VainEldritch]

Right now also, everything is too easy so people can blow through content.  

I would assume this was done intentionally to ensure they get at least some feedback/bug reports from the level 16+ content, since they now have about four days of open beta left before the server comes down for their final update ready for the early access start on 29th January.

It is currently stupidly easy for a T1 Miranda to set power systems to shields and go head-on against an entire roving Klingon squad (fighters, BOPs and 2 battleships) and come out of it with full shields and 90% hull. Bracketting aside, I assume this must be to allow OB players to blast through levels before the deadline hits.

Or am I giving Cryptic too much credit here?  

[01101010]

Last night I go introduced to the bug where you appear in space in humanoid form, and then fall to your "death." Also every beam down was met with the ship-to-humanoid lag bug. Other than that, I was digging the patch, and Spock seems to make it more Trek.

[tmp]

BUT, the presentation was a bit bland.

Understatement of the year.

These dogs for example, they "attack" your crew by standing completely still next to them and half the time they have their ass aimed at the leg they're supposed to be chewing on. I mean, Christ. 

[Surlyboi]

They're alien dogs, they're supposed to bite you with their asses. 

[jakonovski]

They're not dogs or warthogs, they're War Thargs.

[Cyrrex]

So far I've been able to monitor this thread at arm's length and only be mildly tempted.  But you people, no, you assholes, are making this sound interesting.

[Modern Angel]

It actually IS interesting. It's not perfect, I still don't think this is a game anyone stays subbed to for years but it's fun. There are some interesting mechanics under the hood. It looks nice. And while it will probably piss off the real Trekkies for a slightly more than casual fan but not hardcore guy like me? Perfect.

[Stormwaltz]

He's right. It actually has some interesting aspects to it. Heck, the bridge crew alone is sorta neat especially since choosing your bridge crew is practically a game in itself.

It's very clunky, but it has a few good points they could build on. Unlike most MMGs, facing is important for more than a backstab skill or two. Everyone does more damage when they hit in the flank or rear. Crouching increases accuracy at the expense of mobility (too bad there's no such thing as cover). Team allies are unusually bright. One time I died, I observed my guys wait to finish the fight before trying to rez me. One of my coworkers saw his henchman repeatedly circle around to knockback mobs on to ticking grenades.

[Jherad]

Main complaint about ground combat is that movement feels awkward, to me at least. Bit too much lag on the camera, and turning is slow.

Space combat is awesome, although the difficulty has varied wildly. I'm in an escort, and it went from too hard in places (forcing repeated graveyard run spam to wear down an enemy), to waaay too easy since the patch. I also don't like that some scripted encounters put multiple ships within 3k of you, which prior to the patch meant near-instant unavoidable death at lvl 16.

A little worried about what they're going to do with the 'crew' thing. I haven't really been following it, but it seems to control hull regen, and I found a NPC where you can buy crewmen in various numbers (1, 5, 20, 50 etc) in exchange for starfleet merits. I hope that isn't going to be the extent of the death penalty, given that merits are much harder to come by than energy credits.

[Shatter]

So far I've been able to monitor this thread at arm's length and only be mildly tempted.  But you people, no, you assholes, are making this sound interesting.

Depends I guess on what you want from it.  Ill go out on a limb here and guess that most of the people here who seem to be enjoying it wont go past the first month and start paying a monthly sub for this.  Can many of you see yourselves playing this longer then a month when its going to cost you?  Just curious

[tmp]

Team allies are unusually bright.

My experience with NPCs so far boils down mostly to at least one of them failing to get through every third door and getting left behind until i notice something is wrong missing. Or getting permanently stuck in a handrail. And they generally insist on doing the bunny-hop routine when there's nothing going on, complete with superhuman jumps taken straight from Champions Online.

Oh and the melee chars seem perfectly content to just stand back and watch the "carnage" half the time even when i manually pick the target for them. That's of course if you're dumb enough to have a melee character in the first place, considering their attacks do maybe 1/3rd of weapon damage and can't do anything a guy with a gun couldn't do better.

[01101010]

So far I've been able to monitor this thread at arm's length and only be mildly tempted.  But you people, no, you assholes, are making this sound interesting.

Depends I guess on what you want from it.  Ill go out on a limb here and guess that most of the people here who seem to be enjoying it wont go past the first month and start paying a monthly sub for this.  Can many of you see yourselves playing this longer then a month when its going to cost you?  Just curious

I am in this boat. I might buy the box the first month, but probably the second month. As for duration, that is always a wait-and-see proposition, but I don't think I will go past the free month.

And yes after this patch, the game is a tad too easy - which coming from is just  . My science vessel is indestructible now in defensive mode. I have yet to have a shield side drop below 20% and the infamous "alpha strike" doesn't seem to hit with any force anymore.

[tmp]

A new (small) patch is out, the highlight would be it apparently enables the exploration badges.

[Ghambit]

Team allies are unusually bright.

My experience with NPCs so far boils down mostly to at least one of them failing to get through every third door and getting left behind until i notice something is wrong missing. Or getting permanently stuck in a handrail. And they generally insist on doing the bunny-hop routine when there's nothing going on, complete with superhuman jumps taken straight from Champions Online.

Oh and the melee chars seem perfectly content to just stand back and watch the "carnage" half the time even when i manually pick the target for them. That's of course if you're dumb enough to have a melee character in the first place, considering their attacks do maybe 1/3rd of weapon damage and can't do anything a guy with a gun couldn't do better.

Sometimes you have to set rally points to get them to behave, usually after complex engagements.  It's like they give up on trying to figure out what to do and you've gotta do a 'hard reset.'

Anyone else thought of making an all Orion female crew?  Maybe even make them pure melee so every now and then you get a nice pimpslap.   

[Lantyssa]

I did, but that lasted about as long as my interest in the overall game.

[Cyrrex]

Let me know if any of you happen to come across an extra OB key.  I tried that nzone one, but I think I was too late.

[01101010]

Let me know if any of you happen to come across an extra OB key.  I tried that nzone one, but I think I was too late.

 

Just say no... Its like meth. Fun at first, but will turn you into something of a caricature of who you were.

[Riggswolfe]

The game actually seems improved greatly after this last patch. I'm still waiting for them to nerf something but so far it's better. Of course, the forum warriors are now complaining that it's too easy.

[Cyrrex]

Let me know if any of you happen to come across an extra OB key.  I tried that nzone one, but I think I was too late.

 

Just say no... Its like meth. Fun at first, but will turn you into something of a caricature of who you were.

That's actually my goal for the average MMO

[tmp]

Of course, the forum warriors are now complaining that it's too easy.

To be honest it does feel too easy now. Or to put it another way, pre-patch to get through encounters (for single player at suggested level) i'd find myself quite frequently reinforcing shields and actively working to spread the incoming damage, using the heal abilities and/or tweak the energy levels to match the situation.

Post-patch i roll with the 'all power to guns' preset and didn't need to touch the shield heal button once. This means i spent more time doing nothing which is well, pretty boring.

[Surlyboi]

Server's down again, maybe they're ramping the difficulty back up. 

[Montague]

Of course, the forum warriors are now complaining that it's too easy.

To be honest it does feel too easy now. Or to put it another way, pre-patch to get through encounters (for single player at suggested level) i'd find myself quite frequently reinforcing shields and actively working to spread the incoming damage, using the heal abilities and/or tweak the energy levels to match the situation.

Post-patch i roll with the 'all power to guns' preset and didn't need to touch the shield heal button once. This means i spent more time doing nothing which is well, pretty boring.

Yeah I didn't have any complaints about the original difficulty, it seemed about right. Given Cryptic's hamhanded history with regards to game balance I'm not optimistic they'll get it right.

[ghost]

There's no such thing as too easy in an MMOG. There's no such thing as too hard either. It's a binary thing, it's either beatable or not.

Too easy just means you're beating things fast, in which case, what the fuck is the problem?

Isn't there some sort of MMO street cred that involves beating "difficult" and "non-scripted" encounters? 

[tmp]

Too easy just means you're beating things fast, in which case, what the fuck is the problem?

It's boring when you could just place a cat on the keyboard and have the same end effect. And yeah, most MMOs is like that and isn't it big part why they're considered shitty games?

[01101010]

There is a fine line between challenging and frustrating... and of course that line is drawn differently for just about everyone.

[Venkman]

There is a fine line between challenging and frustrating... and of course that line is drawn differently for just about everyone.

"Challenging" in an MMO is measured by frustration though. Until Raiding or PvP, content is there to keep you from the next bit of content, which is going to perform the same way as the content keeping you from it.

STO does a fair job of mixing things up between space, ground, travel and the lore, the latter being just about the only reason this game can exist. Cryptic took a different approach to hiding the grind than, say, WoW and EQ2, which instead used pacing as an ever-full task list to do it.

I certainly wouldn't call it challenging though.

[NowhereMan]

There's a difference between fights that take a couple of minutes and require you to pay some attention while juggling your power settings/using abilities (appropriate ones rather than hitting the same 3 keys again) and fights that take about as long while requiring you to hit auto-attack or hit a couple of keys in set order. I think the complaint is more that by making encounters 'easier' they no longer require the player to react rather than how large a timesink they are, basically that they require less attention/engagement rather than less time.

[Venkman]

Exactly. STO does an ok job of ensuring there's enough baddies around to ensure you need to keep moving and changing power/shields/weapons throughout the fight. This is a lot different than the usual pull/kill of WoW. Actually closer to ChampO and CoX.

[tmp]

basically that they require less attention/engagement rather than less time.

this