Star Trek Online: Here We Go Again!

[01101010]

Expect much of that to stay missing. I don't believe they have a magic content patch in the wings any more than any other kind of magic patch. With CO, they really showed that they didn't even understand the need for a social area or place, except for one bar that was basically entirely for people with a superhero fetish to cyber in.

Oh I think they completely understand the value of the Trekkie fetishes. As for the missing stuff, will it stay missing in terms of WAR's end game missing, or Molten Core missing for a little bit? From what I see and read, it would lean far to the former, but then again, I been surprised before - who would have thought Hellgate would resurrect itself?

[rattran]

Hellgate hasn't resurrected itself, Hanbit has just shoved their hand up the corpse and is making it thrash about.

[tmp]

Sector space feels slow because there's nothing there.  You're moving in a void with the only points of reference being a couple of large systems which look tiny due to distance and a complete lack of perspective.

Also in the other areas you have ability to either toggle on fast travel mode or sprint when on foot. In the sector space you're limited to moving at what's "cruising speed" compared to other areas.

[Malakili]

Sector space feels slow because there's nothing there.  You're moving in a void with the only points of reference being a couple of large systems which look tiny due to distance and a complete lack of perspective.

Also in the other areas you have ability to either toggle on fast travel mode or sprint when on foot. In the sector space you're limited to moving at what's "cruising speed" compared to other areas.

I know earlier in CB "full warp" wasn't working properly, this could be the problem if it still hasn't been fixed.

[Lantyssa]

Given their recent efforts, should we expect it to be fixed?

[Malakili]

Interview wtih Ten Ton Hammer about STO endgame -  http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/79456

Doesn't look good.

Ten Ton Hammer: Will the rollouts of the endgame episodes be free updates or part of the in-game microtransaction store?

Zeke:  Yes, they'll be free.

...

Ten Ton Hammer: How long do you expect it will take the average player to get to the endgame?

Zeke:  It’s roughly about 80 hours I think for the average player.

...

Ten Ton Hammer: Will raids be in the endgame?

Zeke:  The three episodes and the Borg Queen is the largest of all the episodes. They’re geared towards five-man, not ten or 20-man episodes but they are more similar to what people expect out of raids than regular episodes. They’re really tough. You have to figure out what the tricks and schticks are for the bosses. Going in there and doing just straight up damage probably isn’t going to get you through. You’re going to have to figure out what their tricks are. So we expect there to be sort of a learning curve for those where you need to coordinate really well with your team to get it taken care of.

[Surlyboi]

Meh, endgame is fucking pointless in an MMO anyway. Not like I'll ever get there, so who gives a shit. I'll enjoy puttering around in space 'til I get bored and find something else.

[Malakili]

Meh, endgame is fucking pointless in an MMO anyway. Not like I'll ever get there, so who gives a shit. I'll enjoy puttering around in space 'til I get bored and find something else.

Congratulations for you, however, it matters to some people.

[Malakili]

Congratulations for you, however, it matters to some people.

Those people are broken and modern science has stopped wasting time on trying to figure them out, rather, good designers are trying to make the whole game as good as the mythical endgame.

Perhaps we are making a semantic distinction?  A whole good game is a great idea, but an MMO game that is good, but has nothing good to do at max level isn't a  "whole game as good as the mythical endgame."

[palmer_eldritch]

Interview wtih Ten Ton Hammer about STO endgame -  http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/79456

Doesn't look good.

Ten Ton Hammer: Will the rollouts of the endgame episodes be free updates or part of the in-game microtransaction store?

Zeke:  Yes, they'll be free.

...

Ten Ton Hammer: How long do you expect it will take the average player to get to the endgame?

Zeke:  It’s roughly about 80 hours I think for the average player.

...

Ten Ton Hammer: Will raids be in the endgame?

Zeke:  The three episodes and the Borg Queen is the largest of all the episodes. They’re geared towards five-man, not ten or 20-man episodes but they are more similar to what people expect out of raids than regular episodes. They’re really tough. You have to figure out what the tricks and schticks are for the bosses. Going in there and doing just straight up damage probably isn’t going to get you through. You’re going to have to figure out what their tricks are. So we expect there to be sort of a learning curve for those where you need to coordinate really well with your team to get it taken care of.

If there are going to be raids or anything similar, I'd prefer them to be epic five-player things than 30-player things. Not sure that just having three (or does he mean four including the Borg Queen?) does the trick though.

[Kovacs]

Those people are broken and modern science has stopped wasting time on trying to figure them out, rather, good designers are trying to make the whole game as good as the mythical endgame.

A game full of complicated raid-like encounters pre level cap?  Where??   I'd love to know the name of this good designer as last I looked kill 10 rats was STILL de rigueur.

[Venkman]

Ah the Raid thing again. After you've figured out the encounter, you still do it for months anyway just for the chance of a 0.5% increase in some statistics. Is that what you're lokoing for in raid-like encounters pre level cap?

Or do you just want forced groups that enter dungeons that take multiple concurrent hours of horseblinders focus on to complete? 

Not that it matters. Neither will be in STO anyway, and if they were, they'd be broken.

[Malakili]

Ah the Raid thing again. After you've figured out the encounter, you still do it for months anyway just for the chance of a 0.5% increase in some statistics. Is that what you're lokoing for in raid-like encounters pre level cap?

Or do you just want forced groups that enter dungeons that take multiple concurrent hours of horseblinders focus on to complete?  

Not that it matters. Neither will be in STO anyway, and if they were, they'd be broken.

I don't really care about raids, but there needs to be SOMETHING.  In Champions there is a set of a few repeatable quests to do,  and a couple dungeons which don't matter at all.  We should hardly be praising that model because there isn't "forced grouping."

Edited to Add: And it appears that we are getting the same thing with STO.

[Ghambit]

3 complex "raids" endgame at release is plenty for me.  If they're built well that's 3 evenings per week of decent entertainment at endgame.  The fallacy is in making them only 5-mans.  That essentially makes them nothing more than quality missions... something that shoulda been in place well BEFORE endgame.

Tactically organizing 10+ captains was something I was looking forward to, just like with Eve.  (sigh)  So here we just have yet another half-assed Cryptic mechanic I guess.  So for now, all we've got is open PvP instances for large encounters.  And that PvP is gamebreakingly meaningless unless they place the zones in front of the raids.  And if they do that it's fail anyways, 'cause there's nothing else to do and nowhere to go.

Welp, so all is dependent on how quickly they chunk out content... as with every MMO.  80hrs till lvl cap aint a very long time.  Two weeks for most hardcore gamers.

[Malakili]

Welp, so all is dependent on how quickly they chunk out content... as with every MMO.  80hrs till lvl cap aint a very long time.  Two weeks for most hardcore gamers.

Not to mention that they said 80 hours on average, which means hardcores that have been in since closed beta are going to have it down to a science already by the time headstart begins.  I bet we see admirals on launch day.

[UnSub]

You'd be assuming that anyone in CB actually saw the level cap. I don't think enough areas were actually released to allow it.

Besides, it isn't about the hardcore on launch day for STO - it's about the casual players 30 - 90 days out.

[Malakili]

You'd be assuming that anyone in CB actually saw the level cap. I don't think enough areas were actually released to allow it.

Besides, it isn't about the hardcore on launch day for STO - it's about the casual players 30 - 90 days out.

I know a few people did cap out, but it was mainly due to exploits that haven I think been fixed since then.   Of course you are correct, about that, but the bleeding edge does play an important role too.  As soon as those threads about being capped with nothing to do start hitting the forums, it is not a good thing.  I mean, look at the Champions thread that just got bumped up.  Its an incredibly similar situation, and they want to avoid those numbers.  Granted, the Star Trek IP alone will probably prevent it from falling THAT far.  Champions saw a pretty titanic drop off after the first ("Free") month, and STO could be looking at the same thing if it suffers from similar content problems, regardless if it takes you a few days, weeks or months to max out.  Hell, I know a ton of people quit CO before they even maxed, there is no reason to suspect they won't do the same thing here if the word from the end game players is that nothing awaits them. 

It might sound dumb, but a lot of people have it in their heads that the leveling is just all to get to the "real game," whether it is that way, or SHOULD be that way, isn't really the point, if a lot of people feel like they are progressing towards nothing, they will jump ship, regardless of if the leveling content itself is decent or not.

[UnSub]

I don't think STO is going to suffer the same kind of drop-off. It's shallow, absolutely, but it is a lot more intuitive than ChampO was / is. Obviously STO is going to need a lot more content, but I also think it is better designed to deal with players in the meanwhile. There are at least (well, only) two sides to play, whereas ChampO didn't even have that.

Agreed that bleeding edge players do serve as a kind of vanguard into later game issues, but the reality is that not enough of that later game has been tested anyway. It's going to first appear in open beta and be given its QA just before or at launch.

[Ghambit]

The other caveat here is lack of char. slots.  If you include the joined Trill you pretty much only have room for your Klingon and your pre-order character.  There's not a whole lot of messin' around with alts in this game unless you want to pay for more slots.  Sooooo, they better have compeling endgame.

(actually, alts only serve the purpose of being another tool for the same project... gameplay is a re-run regardless)

[Riggswolfe]

Those people are broken and modern science has stopped wasting time on trying to figure them out, rather, good designers are trying to make the whole game as good as the mythical endgame.

A game full of complicated raid-like encounters pre level cap?  Where??   I'd love to know the name of this good designer as last I looked kill 10 rats was STILL de rigueur.

That part I bolded? I don't think that's what he meant by a good whole game. Raids != the be all end all of a good game.

[UnSub]

I think some people want more complex group content, but are uncomfortable calling them instances. Raids is the more accepted term, even though those usually sit at end game.

[WindupAtheist]

Bleeding-edge poopsock types don't matter. At all. If a game is so lacking in content that the average masses are going to use it all up, get bored, and quit then yeah you're gonna see a lot of poopsock tears on the forums. But those tears are a symptom, a side effect, not a cause of anything. Until the normals seriously start joining in the chorus, it's just noise.

Remember when some hardcore raid catasses cleared Naxxramas like 36 hours into Wrath of the Lich King? It got two days of forum play among the types of people who give a shit about forums, and then everyone forgot about it and nobody gave a shit. Because WOTLK had enough content for the masses.

[01101010]

Well the ship advancement is kind of nifty. I played around with my new science vessel last night which is a nice improvement over my starter edition ship. You are kinda on your own figuring out how to get it and where to go, but it wasn't too abstract. I don't like fishing for new abilities that I didn't know I even had, and I am still in the dark as to what my bridge crew actually do in space...

Got two broken quests in a row last night... both beam downs which I had to kill 3 to 5 groups of glitchy boneheads. Both glitches resulted in a missing group which tended to happen if my dumb ass crew aggro'd another group at the same time as the target group. I assume the game is looking for you to fight three times and not three groups, thus one big clusterfuck fight will negate the final group to kill. Likewise, I got a few "help me" quests from silly colonists that didn't plan ahead. Go find 10 medical supplies or provisions or some shit. Yeah, I think I got three or four to drop in battle. At that rate, those quests will never be done either. I doubt I'll get the game at release, but maybe a few months down the road, I might pick it up on sale for the free month ha-ha's.

[jakonovski]

You can buy medical supplies and whatnot in the Sol system, from the commodities dude next to the personal gear vendor tables.

[SuperPopTart]

Bleeding-edge poopsock types don't matter. At all. If a game is so lacking in content that the average masses are going to use it all up, get bored, and quit then yeah you're gonna see a lot of poopsock tears on the forums. But those tears are a symptom, a side effect, not a cause of anything. Until the normals seriously start joining in the chorus, it's just noise.

Remember when some hardcore raid catasses cleared Naxxramas like 36 hours into Wrath of the Lich King? It got two days of forum play among the types of people who give a shit about forums, and then everyone forgot about it and nobody gave a shit. Because WOTLK had enough content for the masses.

Was I playing a different WOW? The one where there is enough content?

[Mrbloodworth]

You can buy medical supplies and whatnot in the Sol system, from the commodities dude next to the personal gear vendor tables.

Did cryptic forget about replicators or something?

[kildorn]

Bleeding-edge poopsock types don't matter. At all. If a game is so lacking in content that the average masses are going to use it all up, get bored, and quit then yeah you're gonna see a lot of poopsock tears on the forums. But those tears are a symptom, a side effect, not a cause of anything. Until the normals seriously start joining in the chorus, it's just noise.

Remember when some hardcore raid catasses cleared Naxxramas like 36 hours into Wrath of the Lich King? It got two days of forum play among the types of people who give a shit about forums, and then everyone forgot about it and nobody gave a shit. Because WOTLK had enough content for the masses.

Was I playing a different WOW? The one where there is enough content?

...? WoW has a dickload of content. Too much, to some extent. TBC is a desolate wasteland of 3 zones to get the fuck out of it now. <3

[kildorn]

You can buy medical supplies and whatnot in the Sol system, from the commodities dude next to the personal gear vendor tables.

Did cryptic forget about replicators or something?

You used to be able to replicate those. They took them off the replicators and added the Sol vendors. Probably because the missions involving them just became "insert credits for mission complete credit"

[tmp]

You used to be able to replicate those. They took them off the replicators and added the Sol vendors. Probably because the missions involving them just became "insert credits for mission complete credit"

And the funny part is if that was the reasoning for the change then this fix did nothing to actually address the issue (if it can be even called one) since now these missions are just "insert credits in advance for mission complete credit".

[Mrbloodworth]

You guys have money?

[tmp]

You guys have money?

I had ~30k energy by the time i hit Lt grade 5 or so. Bless their broken AH system which doesn't list most (if any) items when you try to run a search while having item category selected. They only show when you run a search for "All Items".  

I bought a handful of uncommon shield arrays Mk II this way, each costed me 1-5k and sold for 7.5k a piece at vendor. Then by the time i made it to cruisers i had ~50k energy total, rest came from selling loot drops to vendors.

If you're desperate for cash you can also convert your fleet merit points in a round-about way -- purchase officer candidate for 100 points, sell the gear they come with for ~250 energy, rinse, repeat.

[Stormwaltz]

Did cryptic forget about replicators or something?

The Replicator can create 22 different types of food. All of which offer exactly the same heal boost. 

One of them is Data's Feline Dietary Supplement #47. Yes, you can eat cat food. Perfect for obsessive raiders. 

A coworker mentioned that he found a tribble as loot and logged off. When he logged back in the next day, all his empty inventory slots had been filled with tribbles.

[Ratman_tf]

A coworker mentioned that he found a tribble as loot and logged off. When he logged back in the next day, all his empty inventory slots had been filled with tribbles.

I got a bunch of Tribbles today. I dumped em in the replicator to recycle em. I'll have to keep one next time. 

[jakonovski]

I got a bunch of Tribbles today. I dumped em in the replicator to recycle em. I'll have to keep one next time. 

The best thing you can do with a tribble is to equip it in an away team member's device slot. Hilarity will soon ensue.

[Malakili]

One of them is Data's Feline Dietary Supplement #47. Yes, you can eat cat food.