Principle Architect behind NGE flips lid. Still in Eastern Europe.

[Morat20]

Who is this guy? I've obviously gone blind, because I can't find a name on that site. :)

Secondly: Wow. Fun rants. I could spend some time pointing out lots of fun inconsistancies (like "If you designed the original combat system, and the NGE, how come it was claimed the CU/NGE was a result of no one understanding the original combat code? I heard there were daily beatings there, to keep morale low, but that's a lot to forget...).

But mostly, I don't care. It's funny. It's short-sighted. It's full of the same pissy arrogance that I've come to see as part and parcel of the gaming world. Fuck, of the IT world. We're all a bunch of smug, self-righteous tin-pot gods who KNOW we wouldn't have fucked up like that. And of the personal mistakes we'll acknowledge, you couldn't have fucking done better and you know it. :)

It's just, pity him, he's got a really hard one to defend. It's not like the guys that fucking missed Mars entirely -- they could blame that on some fucking idiot somewhere determined to do shit in feet and inches and goddan newtons, and it leaking to a missed unit conversion. But the NGE, well, shit. It's like the definition of "FAIL" for the MMORPG world.

Well, of the gaming abortions that actually launched and lasted more than six months, that is.

[Bunk]

I'll chip in and give him one itty, bitty little bit of positive. He is correct in that the new shooting mechanic was more fun, and felt a bit more Star Warsie. And then I discovered that my Master Crafter was never going to be allowed the skill to shoot anything tougher than a geriatric Womprat.

[Venkman]

Jeezuschristo. Can we either Den this or find some mythical way to not turn this into a what-went-wrong-with SWG discussion?

[sam, an eggplant]

Heh, yeah. He edited the rant removing the dick eating, roughly 95% of the fucks, and the finger-pointing. Sadly the original version is still out there forever.

I feel for him, actually. I used to do that kind of thing myself all the time. You just need to remember that when you're having a great time writing up something you think is brilliant and cutting and so, so true to take a 20 minute break, come back, and think to yourself "do I really want to send this?". Then you tone it down, cutting out those phrases you loved using so much (like for example "eat a dick"), but not getting in trouble and providing a permanent record of it to boot.

[tazelbain]

Jeezuschristo. Can we either Den this or find some mythical way to not turn this into a what-went-wrong-with SWG discussion?

LOL

"Please, everyone, get off topic!"

[stu]

We are stuck on an alternate Earth in which the implementation of the NGE actually did go through. Somewhere, somewhen along the string of blue planets, the NGE never happened and they just fixed all the bugs instead. Those lucky bastards on Earth-295 even managed to get balanced crafting.

We're living on the Age of Apocalypse Earth of MMOs where Blizzard is king. Sadly, SWG is the Jubilee of games.

[Rishathra]

And yes, all 200k of you were important, but 200k means nothing in the scheme of things.

That statement is not internally consistent.

A 200k sub MMO isn't something to downplay... unless it has the biggest geek IP on the planet stamped all over it. SWG should have been so much bigger.

This is true, but you can't say that you care about the 200k, and be willing to discard them at the same time.  They wanted more, and were willing to sac what they had to get it.  They don't get to say they cared about those 200k after making that decision.

To be clear, I don't begrudge that decision.  I understand why it was made.  I just don't like that he seems to want it both ways.

[Lakov_Sanite]

We're living on the Age of Apocalypse Earth of MMOs where Blizzard is king. Sadly, SWG is the Jubilee of games.

Sadly, this made me laugh harder than it should have. Does this make wow the wolverine of mmo's? overexposed, trite and still massively popular? What is EQ2, cyclops?

[5150]

What follows is largely for my own therapy, no apologies are made as I really don't know where I'm going with this yet (so I'll probably edit alot)

Interestingly, from my position, had the class system remained intact (despite the CU being a bitter pill to swallow from a crafter/combat hybrid POV) I'd probably stayed with the game a little longer. The whole run around like someone on speed not being able to shoot the shit hiding in the terrain wasn't as bigger problem for me as the "You were a Droid Engineer? Now you're Lando, FUCK YOU! die to a kreatle<sp?>  MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

I find it amusing that he's telling us to 'let it go' when hes obviously incapable of letting go of the criticism himself. If he finds it so hard to be judged on his work, perhaps he should pick something a little less.....public to earn a living from? However I suspect his approach to asking people to 'let is go' is going to give people even less of a reason to do so - I certainly don't appreciate being told to suck dick etc. just because I took exception to the changes, voted with my wallet and have avoided giving SOE another penny since. Given the reception Mr. Freeman received when he 'came out' the reaction to this guys writings should have been 100% predictable - if he honestly wasn't expecting a right royal roasting the guys a bigger idiot that his page paints him to be.

If the blame is distributed as explained (which I doubt) I would be interested to hear his pitch as to why I should 'let it go' and presumably continue to pay a company [for the same or an alternative product/service] that has already shown complete contempt for my business? I wonder how many companies/products/services he refuses to use due to a past experience of poor quality/performance/service? Dear Pot, Regards Kettle!

I did notice that while he mentions the NGE made SWG sub positive (at some point) he stops short of telling us how many subs it had when he departed.....

[Lantyssa]

Before we launched, I wrote the combat system, mission system, spawning system.

And now I have a name to go with whom wrote them. 

[stu]

Does this make wow the wolverine of mmo's? overexposed, trite and still massively popular? What is EQ2, cyclops?

EQ2 is the Northstar of MMOs.

[Ratman_tf]

Jeezuschristo. Can we either Den this or find some mythical way to not turn this into a what-went-wrong-with SWG discussion?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJvxEjGpIqU

[Tarami]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJvxEjGpIqU

Wow, that's... what's... that's... wow. Not too bad actually. :)

[Venkman]

Speaking of female twi'leks, there's something ELSE AoC did that SWG should have 

[Woody]

Everytime I see a SOE dev, past or present say "Get over it" and then go on believing what they did was somehow right but implemented wrong just proves we can't get over it just yet.

Guys like him put square wheels on a car, ignored the customers who said it rode rough, panicked when those customers bought a different car and gave them a fucking bicycle with wooden square wheels trying to get them back.

[Rishathra]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJvxEjGpIqU

Wow, that's... what's... that's... wow. Not too bad actually. :)

Japanese version...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0Vnv2p9_ww

[Morat20]

Before we launched, I wrote the combat system, mission system, spawning system.

And now I have a name to go with whom wrote them. 

Who? What's the name? :)

[HaemishM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJvxEjGpIqU

Wow, that's... what's... that's... wow. Not too bad actually. :)

You must not watch Aqua Teen Hunger Force. MC Chris is on there occasionally. They even played parts of that song over the credits once.

[Trippy]

Before we launched, I wrote the combat system, mission system, spawning system.

And now I have a name to go with whom wrote them. 

Who? What's the name? :)

The domain name of the blog is your first big clue. The second is that he worked on SWG. In other words:

 

or just read the full thread, his name is mentioned on the first page.

[Tale]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJvxEjGpIqU

Wow, that's... what's... that's... wow. Not too bad actually. :)

Japanese version...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0Vnv2p9_ww

The original version of the Fette's Vette machinima clip is all in SWG-o-vision.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z9XTeeA43o

[Tale]

I wrote the combat system, mission system, spawning system. I wrote
the combat model for JTL, implemented all of the development tools and
ship interior systems and more.

Hell, I implemented the original Jedi System

I played SWG on and off (mostly on) for about 15 months, beta included, and I disliked all those systems. JTL had atmosphere but the feel of combat absolutely sucked compared with other space combat games.

Also, in his rant he completely failed to mention the CU (Combat Upgrade - a misnomer as it was not a combat upgrade). SWG did not go from Original to NGE. It went from Original to CU to NGE.

And the CU was what killed SWG. The NGE sped up its death. The CU ripped out the entire guts of sandboxy SWG and turned it into a diku with XP levels. The CU utterly destroyed the much-loved crafting system, along with the stats of every item that had ever been crafted. The CU destroyed my guild and emptied my server.

Then they put the NGE on top of that.

His failure to mention the CU reveals that he had no understanding of how different pre-CU SWG was from post-CU SWG, or that the subscriber exodus they needed to solve was not a result of SWG, but of the CU.

BUT!

And this is a HUGE but.

Right as I left SOE, post NGE..

Galaxies was subscriber positive.

That had nothing to do with him. SWG grew again because the Episode III movie came out and they rereleased it with all expansions in a beautiful box as:

STAR WARS
GALAXIES
The Complete Online Adventures

That was genius marketing. I even bought a copy and tried to play again. Only one of the 100 or so people on my friends list was still playing, and he was in a guild full of happy post-NGE newbies who had fallen in love with the player city system and couldn't understand why he and I had any complaints about the great Star Wars housing simulator.

[Morat20]

Before we launched, I wrote the combat system, mission system, spawning system.

And now I have a name to go with whom wrote them. 

Who? What's the name? :)

The domain name of the blog is your first big clue. The second is that he worked on SWG. In other words:

 

or just read the full thread, his name is mentioned on the first page.

Fuck, I'm dumber than I thought. :)

[Venkman]

TL had atmosphere but the feel of combat absolutely sucked compared with other space combat games.

Problem: what other space combat games?

There's been such a lull in that genre that JTL could get a pass for launching at all, and then a bonus point for bolting onto a ground-based MMO. In that context I thought it was the best thing to come to SWG at all. I've said before, if they wanted to give players something new and attract new players, they should have pulled out the stops on JTL, moved players to space stations and left the ground game to droids harvesting generators and shit.

[Tale]

TL had atmosphere but the feel of combat absolutely sucked compared with other space combat games.

Problem: what other space combat games?

I refuse to answer, because you're breaking your own rule and asking SWG questions, making more SWG thread.

[Venkman]

You started it! 

[Gutboy Barrelhouse]

I guess I must resist posting in this thread since we can't have a general use SWG thread.

I do think that he did post information in his rant that would seem to me to be covered by a NDA.

[eldaec]

BUT!

And this is a HUGE but.

Right as I left SOE, post NGE..

Galaxies was subscriber positive.

Are you that AW guy?

TL had atmosphere but the feel of combat absolutely sucked compared with other space combat games.

Problem: what other space combat games?

There's no good reason it couldn't have played as well as XvT, or even FS2 and Starlancer (they did have the greater part of a decade on those games after all). And, who knows, it might well have done if they hadn't limited themselves and wasted effort bending over backwards to make pilots to play the ground game, as opposed to just having them interact by trading resources between the two.

[Lantyssa]

Are you that AW guy?

The anti-AW.  SWG really did end up with -55,000 subscribers!

 

[taolurker]

Speaking of female twi'leks, there's something ELSE AoC did that SWG should have 

Were you referring to THIS? The original Nude Mod for SWG was released prior to the NGE IIRC.

WoW has one too.

Note: I do not use or encourage use of these, as it could well put your game account in jeopardy.

[Venkman]

Yea, but those are after market additions

[Gutboy Barrelhouse]

Hey is is asking for questions now and says he will answer the best ones.

http://rubenfield.com/?p=93#comments

Games
Ask away
06.24.08 | Permalink | 35 Comments
So I’m in DC for a week or so for work. Post some questions here about the NGE stuff. Keep them polite and I’ll see if I can post a followup answer to the best ones (or as many as I can get to).