Remember that other upcoming MMO? Last class in WAR revealed.

[Sunbury]

Its fine and dandy they chose this approach in AoC, its just not a MMORPG game for me because of the mini-instanced-zones.

I had the same problem with DDO.   Heck, I the zone effect in EQ1 wasn't to my liking either, let alone the instancing.

They had no instanced zones, huge seemless world, collision detection, full PvP in Asheron's Call in 1999, but in 2008 they can't do that anymore?  Uhh, OK, I guess computers aren't that much faster then...

[shiznitz]

Just because AC did it doesn't mean it should be done again. Lantyssa's point about collision and large crowds is an excellent one.

[veredus]

But the alternative is Vanguard's 20 minute trots across empty fields or WoW/EQ2 griffon rides.  Travel times are one of the first things that players complain about after a month or two. It also makes alts even more boring to level up. The only difference with Conan is that I cannot say "well, if you want to sightsee you can but don't force it on the rest of us."

Maybe I'm strange, but that was one of my favorite parts of Vanguard. Actually I know I am strange. I really really liked Vanguard and would have put up with all the bugs happily if my friends would have also.  Also the empty fields to me help with the immersion. Take EQ2, long travel there sucks since every zone is jammed packed it seems. As much as a like EQ2 to me that is not immersive, that is every zone being an amusement park. Which is a different kind of fun.

[eldaec]

I'm strange

QFT

if you want to sightsee you can but don't force it on the rest of us

QFT

[Nerf]

Click the little triangle to change instances on white sands or the underhalls, now imagine all of those people in the same zone.

Yeah, it might add "immersion" but no one would be able to fucking do anything.

[NiX]

To complain about instancing you first need to complain about quest design. If we all didn't have to kill X mob to progress to the next quest then instancing wouldn't be a problem.

[FatuousTwat]

WOW TJAT WITE LIONM LOOKS COOL! 

[Murgos]

IT'S A LION!  GET IN THE CAR!!!

 

[lamaros]

But the alternative is Vanguard's 20 minute trots across empty fields or WoW/EQ2 griffon rides.  Travel times are one of the first things that players complain about after a month or two. It also makes alts even more boring to level up. The only difference with Conan is that I cannot say "well, if you want to sightsee you can but don't force it on the rest of us."

Travel times and instancing aren't really related. You can put teleporters all over WoW and have no travel time, but you'd still have the same instancing structure.

[eldaec]

Also, the instanced newbie zone issue only ever comes up for the first two months of a game's existence.

Both EQ2 and CoH used the same system, it fixes itself after a couple of months when players are spread around the world. Atlas Park and Galaxy City almost never have instances anymore, the only zones that ever do are new zones for the first couple weeks after they get patched in.

[schild]

I tried not to post in this thread, really. But I can't help myself.

Triforcer, if AoC doesn't feel like a world to you because areas aren't seamlessly connected and/or loading screens exist, I think you might have a bigger problem.

AoC is Hyboria brought to life. Like, seriously totally and completely brought to life. It's downright impressive. So impressive it made me buy the books to re-read them after almost (or maybe more) than a decade.

[Engels]

Can you imagine AoC trying to do what Vanguard did so poorly itself, 'streaming' the zone loading? It would splutter and choke in a bad way. I'm glad for the load pages. Even then, often the NPCs won't pop right away. THAT one can kvetch about.

[photek]

I tried not to post in this thread, really. But I can't help myself.

Triforcer, if AoC doesn't feel like a world to you because areas aren't seamlessly connected and/or loading screens exist, I think you might have a bigger problem.

AoC is Hyboria brought to life. Like, seriously totally and completely brought to life. It's downright impressive. So impressive it made me buy the books to re-read them after almost (or maybe more) than a decade.

I'm seconding this. If you have read any of the E. Howard books Hyboria in AoC will really shine. Heck, even without knowing anything the visuals should be stunning. Check the pictures I'm posting in AoC's screenshot thread in 10 mins.

On topic : FUCK YES! High Elves are the dominant race for me now, can't believe anything surpassed my love for Greenskins in WAR, but with the current classes its really a win win. I will roll every High Elf archetype on live realms 

[Simond]

And then regret it five minutes later when you remember what others sorts of people always roll elves in MMOGs. 

[Kirth]

And then regret it five minutes later when you remember what others sorts of people always roll elves in MMOGs. 

I always roll elf 

[rk47]

oh cmon, Humans are always the best tank. Elves are the quickest ,  Dark Elves are the most powerful casters and Dwarves are ugly.

[KallDrexx]

And trolls are the best bridge builders!

[rk47]

don't forget dorfs loves beer. It's like a stereotyping of sorts. Most dwarves are either smoking or drinking in their spare time but they still get the highest HP

[trias_e]

I'm with the masochistic people who don't like instancing.  I don't mind zones, or instancing in certain instances (solo questlines come to mind), but I far prefer Vanguard to Guild Wars.  I enjoyed it taking an hour to travel the world to meet up with your friends in EQ (especially because once you were slightly less noob you could just pay for a port...).  I like location actually being relevant when it comes to gameplay and also the player community.  As far as travel goes, I'm the kind of person that when playing Oblivion would only fast travel if I had already covered every square inch of territory between my two destinations. 

In the end I feel like AoC would have been much better off as a single player action RPG.  I suppose that will change when you get to 80 and the end game becomes raiding/guild PvP, but as far as leveling goes there's no reason for there to be another person in the game world.  However in a game without massive instancing and WoW based solo quest progression, community becomes much more relevant.  (too bad Vanguard failed so hard, since it's likely to be the last attempt at such a thing...ever.)

Oh, back on topic, I have a massive desire to play the high elf swordmaster in WoW+DAOC.  Does that make me gay?

[apocrypha]

The instancing is ruining AoC for me :(

It breaks immersion, adds to the feeling that this isn't a world but a bunch of separate single player games stapled together AND it doesn't solve the "too many players, not enough mobs" problem.

WoW has the instancing right IMO, apart from the PvP but that's another story :p

[Threash]

The instancing is ruining AoC for me :(

I really don't get this at all.  At all.

[rk47]

All this instancing wahhhh wahhh has gotta give a damn good counter to the solution of collision detection aside from making all players as gaseous substance ala WoW, there's just no way you can hope to integrate collision detection and non-instancing together. It'll be a fuckin problem when a bunch of retards decided to block a gate to a town by standing in a line on PVE server.

[apocrypha]

The instancing is ruining AoC for me :(

I really don't get this at all.  At all.

That's why I had more to my post than just the bit you quoted... :P

I don't like the feel of it. If it solved the mob-camping problems then I'd be more accepting of it. But it doesn't. Interesting thing about humans, they feel differently about things. We don't all think and feel the same. I don't like the instancing. Can't help it, that's just the way it is.

[Kirth]

All this instancing wahhhh wahhh has gotta give a damn good counter to the solution of collision detection aside from making all players as gaseous substance ala WoW, there's just no way you can hope to integrate collision detection and non-instancing together. It'll be a fuckin problem when a bunch of retards decided to block a gate to a town by standing in a line on PVE server.

Unless had a way for people to push thru others, say after 5 seconds of trying. Wonder if any upcoming games have that implemented.

[Rondaror]

All this instancing wahhhh wahhh has gotta give a damn good counter to the solution of collision detection aside from making all players as gaseous substance ala WoW, there's just no way you can hope to integrate collision detection and non-instancing together. It'll be a fuckin problem when a bunch of retards decided to block a gate to a town by standing in a line on PVE server.

Don't see the problem. Collision Detection for enemies only.....problem solved.....

[eldaec]

Also, people talk as if no form of collision detection has ever been implemented in a MMOG. Guess what, half the mmogs you've played prevented you walking through other characters, and the sky did not fall, you didn't even fucking notice.

You only ever really notice it when it isn't there in games that desperately need it. DAoC, SB, and SWG, I'm looking at you.

[El Gallo]

The instancing is ruining AoC for me :(

It breaks immersion, adds to the feeling that this isn't a world but a bunch of separate single player games stapled together AND it doesn't solve the "too many players, not enough mobs" problem.

WoW has the instancing right IMO, apart from the PvP but that's another story :p

I don't think AOC feels like a world to me, but I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that it is instanced. It's the way the zones feel. They feel very, very "gamey" and not "worldy" at all. They feel a whole lot like zones in NeverWinter Nights, which never felt like they were part of a world. Maybe this will change when I get out of the noob zones, but the ones I've seen thus far (the mountain zone by the barbarian starting area and the desert zone by the snake-worshiping dudes, and some of the dungeons in both) feel very disconnected and modular to me.  It's difficult for me to put my finger on, and it's not a dealbreaker for me, but the AOC world feels a lot more like NWN or GuildWars than EQ, WOW, or Baldur's Gate.

[Triforcer]

The instancing is ruining AoC for me :(

It breaks immersion, adds to the feeling that this isn't a world but a bunch of separate single player games stapled together AND it doesn't solve the "too many players, not enough mobs" problem.

WoW has the instancing right IMO, apart from the PvP but that's another story :p

I don't think AOC feels like a world to me, but I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that it is instanced. It's the way the zones feel. They feel very, very "gamey" and not "worldy" at all. They feel a whole lot like zones in NeverWinter Nights, which never felt like they were part of a world. Maybe this will change when I get out of the noob zones, but the ones I've seen thus far (the mountain zone by the barbarian starting area and the desert zone by the snake-worshiping dudes, and some of the dungeons in both) feel very disconnected and modular to me.  It's difficult for me to put my finger on, and it's not a dealbreaker for me, but the AOC world feels a lot more like NWN or GuildWars than EQ, WOW, or Baldur's Gate.

Agree.  Worded better than I could frame it.  Its an indefinable feel thing.

[Hellinar]

I don't think AOC feels like a world to me, but I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that it is instanced. It's the way the zones feel. They feel very, very "gamey" and not "worldy" at all. They feel a whole lot like zones in NeverWinter Nights, which never felt like they were part of a world. Maybe this will change when I get out of the noob zones, but the ones I've seen thus far (the mountain zone by the barbarian starting area and the desert zone by the snake-worshiping dudes, and some of the dungeons in both) feel very disconnected and modular to me.  It's difficult for me to put my finger on, and it's not a dealbreaker for me, but the AOC world feels a lot more like NWN or GuildWars than EQ, WOW, or Baldur's Gate.

One thing I really noticed in the open beta was how strongly you were channelled onto paths, at least in the newbie zone. No wandering off wherever you felt like it. That feels very gemey to me. "This way to your next points pinata". In contrast, in the WoW newbie zones, you can wander where you want and get into trouble.

Is this just the newbie zones? Do the higher level zones open out?

[stray]

I said right away that it was very Bioware-ish to me. Even though I prefer "worlds", that's not necessarily a bad thing to me. Just depends if it was well designed or not. That's usually not mmos' strong suit, but I think it was pulled off pretty well here.

[schild]

What it feels like is Star Wars Galaxies. Each region is just another planet.

In fact, it's exactly like Star Wars Galaxies.

This is a good thing.

[Numtini]

One thing I really noticed in the open beta was how strongly you were channelled onto paths, at least in the newbie zone. No wandering off wherever you felt like it.

Once you get out of Tortage, you are opened up a little bit. It's still like WOW though, there are quest lines and they more or less tell you what to do and where to go.

I believe they made a mistake with Tortage. It should have been offline and solo and one time like the original plan.

[schild]

I believe they made a mistake with Tortage. It should have been offline and solo and one time like the original plan.

I don't know why you say that. Three of us tore through the ruins last night and all got loot as well as finished the entire ruins line. I ended up going from 1 to 20 in just under 7 hours. I'm not seeing why offline solo would have been better? It would be more than aggravating as there are classes that simply can't finish some missions without more trouble than it's worth. As such, simply by the nature of it being multiplayer, it makes up for many of the early level shortcomings.

[Mrbloodworth]

All this instancing wahhhh wahhh has gotta give a damn good counter to the solution of collision detection aside from making all players as gaseous substance ala WoW, there's just no way you can hope to integrate collision detection and non-instancing together. It'll be a fuckin problem when a bunch of retards decided to block a gate to a town by standing in a line on PVE server.

Don't see the problem. Collision Detection for enemies only.....problem solved.....

That would be incredibly dumb in a PvP game.

[Venkman]

The offline-solo idea was back when the thinking was you only needed to do 1-20 once, thereafter /level'ing level 20 alts. It is a good run through, the first, maybe second, time. By the fifth time though, eh, not so much. That has nothing to do with speed and everything to do with repetition. People accept that at the end game mostly because that's all there is to do, and by then they're probably addicted to their character and any form of advancement left to them.

The Tortage portion of the game was designed to be linear. SWG was never this linear until the NGE content. That actually made SWG better for some players, but it was a retrofit for the majority of folks who were there when it happened. Here, it just feels too constricting... but mostly because it wasn't the original intent.

Having said that, I don't mind that pre-20 is public. It is an MMO, and you should see other players early on. And I suspect that in time, they'll have the /level command put in. They just shouldn't do it now until a) there's actual good content through to the end; and, b) the build in the totality of what they intend for post-20 PvP (cities, sieges, etc).