Supplements

[Arnold]

I'm in the gym five days a week, and I stay right around 185. I think without that bit of extra help, I wouldn't be able to gain much.

Being in the gym 5 days a week doesn't mean anything without data.  You could be talking on your cell phone the whole time, or pumping little pink dumbells.

[Arnold]

MSG is a particularly nasty neurotoxin which is used specifically in lab rats to both cause blindness and induce obesity. It's also excitoxic, carcinogenic, and so on. So personally, I make the decision not to drink MSG milkshakes. I did for many years, though.

WTF are you talking about?  The human tongue has specific taste receptors for MSG and they don't make MSG taste nasty, they make MSG taste RICH and DELICIOUS.

[Azaroth]

MSG is a particularly nasty neurotoxin which is used specifically in lab rats to both cause blindness and induce obesity. It's also excitoxic, carcinogenic, and so on. So personally, I make the decision not to drink MSG milkshakes. I did for many years, though.

WTF are you talking about?  The human tongue has specific taste receptors for MSG and they don't make MSG taste nasty, they make MSG taste RICH and DELICIOUS.

Rofl.

[Arnold]

MSG is a particularly nasty neurotoxin which is used specifically in lab rats to both cause blindness and induce obesity. It's also excitoxic, carcinogenic, and so on. So personally, I make the decision not to drink MSG milkshakes. I did for many years, though.

WTF are you talking about?  The human tongue has specific taste receptors for MSG and they don't make MSG taste nasty, they make MSG taste RICH and DELICIOUS.

Rofl.

ROFL all you want, but come back when you have evidence of MSG being a neurotoxin, and some cases of people who have been crippled or killed by it.  Anecdotal evidence, which is all I have ever encountered, does not count.  The same people who whine about MSG are the same ones who say, "WOW, I eat Chinese food and I'm hungry an hour later!!!!"  I don't know what kind of Chinese food those people are eating

[Azaroth]

ROFL all you want, but come back when you have evidence of MSG being a neurotoxin, and some cases of people who have been crippled or killed by it.  Anecdotal evidence, which is all I have ever encountered, does not count.  The same people who whine about MSG are the same ones who say, "WOW, I eat Chinese food and I'm hungry an hour later!!!!"  I don't know what kind of Chinese food those people are eating

Holy shit, you were serious?

[Arnold]

ROFL all you want, but come back when you have evidence of MSG being a neurotoxin, and some cases of people who have been crippled or killed by it.  Anecdotal evidence, which is all I have ever encountered, does not count.  The same people who whine about MSG are the same ones who say, "WOW, I eat Chinese food and I'm hungry an hour later!!!!"  I don't know what kind of Chinese food those people are eating

Holy shit, you were serious?

Yes.

[stray]

MSG makes a Cheeto a Cheeto. Don't hate.

[edit] Cheeto. Not Cheetoh. 

[Margalis]

Arnold must work for an MSG manufacturer.

[Azaroth]

K. Well, I guess you should rofl your way over to pubmed.gov and educate yourself. I'm not sure that's my job.

Although I'm somewhat tempted to encourage you to eat all of the MSG you'd like, here's a few simple links:

Behavioral and endocrinological effects of single injections of monosodium glutamate in the mouse.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3785512?dopt=Abstract&holding=npg

We have used single injections of MSG, administered on postnatal day four, to explore the lower end of the dose-response curve for this toxin. Major features of the MSG syndrome including hypophagia, obesity, hypoactivity, reduced pituitary protein content, decreased ovarian weight, delayed puberty and elevated plasma corticosterone levels were obtained at the highest dose.

http://www.lf2.cuni.cz/physiolres/2000/issue2/suppl/suppl12.htm

administration of monosodium glutamate (MSG) to rats induces obesity, hyperinsulinemia and hyperglycemia in adulthood

Etc etc.

If you're too lazy to look on pubmed for studies, here's a few things you get when you type in "MSG Obese".

He K, Zhao L, Daviglus ML, Dyer AR, Van Horn L, Garside D, Zhu L, Guo D, Wu Y, Zhou B, Stamler J; for the INTERMAP Cooperative Research Group.

Association of Monosodium Glutamate Intake With Overweight in Chinese Adults: The INTERMAP Study.

Castrogiovanni D, Gaillard RC, Giovambattista A, Spinedi E.

Neuroendocrine, Metabolic, and Immune Functions during the Acute Phase Response of Inflammatory Stress in Monosodium L-Glutamate-Damaged, Hyperadipose Male Rat.

Nakanishi Y, Tsuneyama K, Fujimoto M, Salunga TL, Nomoto K, An JL, Takano Y, Iizuka S, Nagata M, Suzuki W, Shimada T, Aburada M, Nakano M, Selmi C, Gershwin ME.

Monosodium glutamate (MSG): a villain and promoter of liver inflammation and dysplasia.

Matyšková R, Maletínská L, Maixnerová J, Pirník Z, Kiss A, Zelezná B.

Comparison of the obesity phenotypes related to monosodium glutamate effect on arcuate nucleus and/or the high fat diet feeding in C57Bl/6 and NMRI mice.

Maletínská L, Toma RS, Pirnik Z, Kiss A, Slaninová J, Haluzík M, Zelezná B.

Effect of cholecystokinin on feeding is attenuated in monosodium glutamate obese mice.

Or you could type in "MSG toxicity":

Ma J, Yu LJ, Ma RD, Zhang YP, Fang JZ, Zhang XY, Yu TX.

Repair of glutamate-induced excitotoxic neuronal damage mediated by intracerebroventricular transplantation of neural stem cells in adult mice.

Onyema OO, Farombi EO, Emerole GO, Ukoha AI, Onyeze GO.

Effect of vitamin E on monosodium glutamate induced hepatotoxicity and oxidative stress in rats.

Rácz B, Gallyas F Jr, Kiss P, Tóth G, Hegyi O, Gasz B, Borsiczky B, Ferencz A, Roth E, Tamás A, Lengvári I, Lubics A, Reglodi D.

The neuroprotective effects of PACAP in monosodium glutamate-induced retinal lesion involve inhibition of proapoptotic signaling pathways.

Segura Torres JE, Chaparro-Huerta V, Rivera Cervantres MC, Montes-González R, Flores Soto ME, Beas-Zárate C.

Neuronal cell death due to glutamate excitotocity is mediated by p38 activation in the rat cerebral cortex.

Farombi EO, Onyema OO.

Monosodium glutamate-induced oxidative damage and genotoxicity in the rat: modulatory role of vitamin C, vitamin E and quercetin.

Kiss P, Tamas A, Lubics A, Szalai M, Szalontay L, Lengvari I, Reglodi D.

Development of neurological reflexes and motor coordination in rats neonatally treated with monosodium glutamate.

Tamás A, Gábriel R, Rácz B, Dénes V, Kiss P, Lubics A, Lengvári I, Reglodi D.

Effects of pituitary adenylate cyclase activating polypeptide in retinal degeneration induced by monosodium-glutamate.

I mean, I don't know. You can be an abrasive jerkoff all you want, but I would certainly suggest checking things out first. If all of that is too many words and too few pictures for you, I'm sure there are plenty of videos on YouTube about it (and after looking now, yes, indeed there are).

[Arnold]

Wow, you actually spent time linking all that crap?  I suggest searching Google with more a more general, and less strawman-query; you will get different results.

There are lots of people on either side of the fence, so I will side with personal experience.  I have consumed MSG many, many times in my life and have never experienced anything even close to what the doctor who first targetted it described.

[Azaroth]

Wow, you actually spent time linking all that crap?

You're right. I really shouldn't have.

[Margalis]

There are lots of people on either side of the fence, so I will side with personal experience.  I have consumed MSG many, many times in my life and have never experienced anything even close to what the doctor who first targetted it described.

I've smoked cigs many times in my life and I don't have lung cancer. Must be a hoax...

[schild]

I consume more MSG than china.

On that same note, people who want supplements, import some Hydroxycut from Canada (you know, the real shit with Ephedrene AND Caffeine) and stop dancing around the issue.

[Azaroth]

I consume more MSG than china.

On that same note, people who want supplements, import some Hydroxycut from Canada (you know, the real shit with Ephedrene AND Caffeine) and stop dancing around the issue.

Just be careful with that shit. And watch out for withdrawl.

[schild]

I consume more MSG than china.

On that same note, people who want supplements, import some Hydroxycut from Canada (you know, the real shit with Ephedrene AND Caffeine) and stop dancing around the issue.

Just be careful with that shit. And watch out for withdrawl.

Thanks for the advice!

I haven't used it since 1998.

[K9]

Wow, you actually spent time linking all that crap?  I suggest searching Google with more a more general, and less strawman-query; you will get different results.

There are lots of people on either side of the fence, so I will side with personal experience.  I have consumed MSG many, many times in my life and have never experienced anything even close to what the doctor who first targetted it described.

[Aez]

Jesus fucking Christ.  You retards just ruined my Saturday morning.
First thread of day - worst thread of the month.

Here's a Carrot Top for your achievement. You should argue with him.  I'm sure he knows the real effect for real of xtrem Supplements.

[schild]

He'll play the Joker in the next batman.

[Arnold]

He'll play the Joker in the next batman.

Jesus, "present" is scarier than "future", and that's sayin' something.

[Arrrgh]

I'm in the gym five days a week, and I stay right around 185. I think without that bit of extra help, I wouldn't be able to gain much.

Over training is your first problem. See if you sound like a hardgainer.

http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/faq06.htm

And if you try to follow the same workouts as your buddies on roids it will be even worse since you won't have their pharmaceutically enhanced recovery rates.

[slog]

I consume more MSG than china.

On that same note, people who want supplements, import some Hydroxycut from Canada (you know, the real shit with Ephedrene AND Caffeine) and stop dancing around the issue.

Just be careful with that shit. And watch out for withdrawl.

speaking of Hydroxycut

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/05/01/hydroxycut.fda.recall/index.html

"Hydroxycut products, popular dietary supplements used for weight loss, have been linked to liver damage and are being recalled, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration said Friday."

I still believe that people who take supplements are insane.

[Grimwell]

I miss ephedrine. I wish it was a plant that I could grow and chew the root. :P

[Nebu]

MSG is the sodium salt of an amino acid.  Glutamate also can act as a neurotransmitter.  In the realm of bad things, this isn't among them.  Particularly in moderate amounts.

I don't know how I ever missed this thread.  I have a huge person interest in supplements... mostly I enjoy disproving their efficacy in my lab. 

[Nebu]

I miss ephedrine. I wish it was a plant that I could grow and chew the root. :P

It is: Ma Huang


Edit: unless you were being sarcastic... then well played.

[schild]

It's all about the ECA stack.

Just sayin. Other than possible bouts of extreme paranoia.

[climbjtree]

As an update to all this, I've actually done pretty well in the gym recently. I can usually lift between patrols so I generally get 4-5 days a week in the gym. I'm take my weight in grams of protein every day in three shakes, one of which is in the 30 minutes after I lift. Before I lift I take a couple scoops of Nano Vapor.

The big change is that I've just finished a cycle of Tren Xtreme from Americell Labs. I'll vouch for it if anyone decides to give it a try. I'm at 190-ish and benching 280, and they're both highs for me. I've been off Tren for a couple weeks and haven't noticed any losses yet. I'll post if I see any downsides.

[Azaroth]

It's all about the ECA stack.

Just sayin. Other than possible bouts of extreme paranoia.

That's why I can't touch that shit.

[Nebu]

The big change is that I've just finished a cycle of Tren Xtreme from Americell Labs. I'll vouch for it if anyone decides to give it a try. I'm at 190-ish and benching 280, and they're both highs for me. I've been off Tren for a couple weeks and haven't noticed any losses yet. I'll post if I see any downsides.

That's pretty impressive.  What's your caloric intake like on top of the protein use?  Are you using a pyramid workout or a 5x5?  I'm about the same size, but I'm stuck on a plateau again.  My bench is around 235 and I'm having a hard time getting higher (partly because I lift without a spotter).  Granted, being over 40 may have a bit to do with this.  I was much stronger in my 20's. 

As for the Tren, I'm not a big fan of using derivatized steroid products.  I wonder if you could get the same improvements by just watching diet and increasing your creatine a bit. 

[Mandrel]

I miss ephedrine. I wish it was a plant that I could grow and chew the root. :P

Visit your local Walgreens or CVS: http://www.walgreens.com/store/product.jsp?CATID=100092&navAction=jump&navCount=0&nug=VPD&skuid=sku5517428&id=prod5518561

[schild]

I miss ephedrine. I wish it was a plant that I could grow and chew the root. :P

Visit your local Walgreens or CVS: http://www.walgreens.com/store/product.jsp?CATID=100092&navAction=jump&navCount=0&nug=VPD&skuid=sku5517428&id=prod5518561

Don't forget the No-Doz!

[Broughden]

I miss ephedrine. I wish it was a plant that I could grow and chew the root. :P

I have a stash. I dont think its banned nationwide is it? Or it was and then it wasnt due to lawsuits or something?

Edit:

I miss ephedrine. I wish it was a plant that I could grow and chew the root. :P

Visit your local Walgreens or CVS: http://www.walgreens.com/store/product.jsp?CATID=100092&navAction=jump&navCount=0&nug=VPD&skuid=sku5517428&id=prod5518561

I dont think that stuff (ephedrine sulphate) is the same as the good old ephedrine hydrochloride.

[Nebu]

I dont think that stuff (ephedrine sulphate) is the same as the good old ephedrine hydrochloride.

It's pretty much the same, just uses a sulfate anion instead of a chloride.  This does cause minor differences in delivery, but the active ingredient is essentially the same.

[Yegolev]

I miss ephedrine. I wish it was a plant that I could grow and chew the root. :P

Visit your local Walgreens or CVS: http://www.walgreens.com/store/product.jsp?CATID=100092&navAction=jump&navCount=0&nug=VPD&skuid=sku5517428&id=prod5518561

Oh ho, nice.  Now to see if it is available in these parts.

[climbjtree]

That's pretty impressive.  What's your caloric intake like on top of the protein use?  Are you using a pyramid workout or a 5x5?  I'm about the same size, but I'm stuck on a plateau again.  My bench is around 235 and I'm having a hard time getting higher (partly because I lift without a spotter).  Granted, being over 40 may have a bit to do with this.  I was much stronger in my 20's. 

As for the Tren, I'm not a big fan of using derivatized steroid products.  I wonder if you could get the same improvements by just watching diet and increasing your creatine a bit. 

I honestly have a terrible, terrible diet. For the entirety of this year I've been in Iraq and ate terribly. I'm at the tail end of my two weeks of R&R right now, and haven't eaten this good in a while. After this I'll go back to Iraq and back to crap eating, so I don't really monitor my diet at all.

As far as my work out goes, it's chest and tri's, then back and bi's, then legs. I do this cycle twice a week and take the last day off (or try and keep as close to this as I can). I don't do certain exercises on certain days of the week, I just keep to the same rotation even if I miss a day.

I do heavy weight, three sets off 6-8 and three different exercises for each muscle group.

I'm a bit drunk so if this is unclear maybe I can clear it up tomorrow.

Happy Cinco de Drinko!

[Logain]

The gains are impressive because Tren Xtreme is a prohormone. If you haven't already, you need to do some research on PCT and get some nolvadex or restore. There are others that work just as well though, they'll have them behind the counter or locked up at your supplement store. If you come off the pros cold chances are you will lose 90% of what you gained, hit some depression, and a complete lack of libido. After a cycle your natural testosterone production is extremely low and you've gotta take something to block out all the now excess estrogen till your teas production can catch up. You may not lose the strength but you'll definitely lose mass and gain fat if you don't.

Edit: and I know you said you've been off for a couple weeks already but if anyone is thinking of trying this stuff out you absolutely cannot drink while you take these. Prohormones put an enormous load on your liver and it won't take much to fuck you up.