WotLK spoilerfication

[Montague]

Looking at those DK talents, every single DK is going to put at least 5 points into Blood for 5/5 Bladed Armour.

Upon dinging 70, a DK with average gear will have around 9k armor. At 5/5 that'll equate to 225 attack power, which is basically a Blessing of Might. Meh.

To be honest, I'm rather underwhelmed. I see a viable 5-man tank and a formidable PVP class, but not a very good raiding class.

[Chimpy]

To be honest, I'm rather underwhelmed. I see a viable 5-man tank and a formidable PVP class, but not a very good raiding class.

They already stated that DK's will be used as a magic soaking kind of tank, probably to replace/augment warlock tanking on shit like Twin Emps/Leothras/Illidan etc.

I am sure they will setup something where no DK in raid to tank mob z = wipe everytime.

[Fordel]

Anti-Magic Zone
Places a large, static Anti-Magic Zone which can protect any party members inside it. The Anti-Magic Zone absorbs 75% of the damage dealt by the next harmful spell. Absorbs up to 10000 damage. Lasts 30 sec.


Guarantee 1+ DK per raid to deal with gimmick ability on Boss via this 

[lamaros]

I've been keeping up a fair bit with the DK stuff because I'm going to play one for the expansion. There's a thread I started over at EJ on them:

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t26113-death_knight_wotlk_discussion_-_talents_abilities/

There is a bit of useful information there, though it gets pedantic (me? pedantic?) and stupid at points too. But if you're really interested it might be worth a skim read.

The Trees are not setup to be tank/dps/pvp or whatever, Blizzard is trying to get away from that and is changing other classes to try and escape this also. While there will ultimatly be a tanking spec that works best it is likely that you will be able to have a solid tank with a few different specs, dependign on what you want to make strengest.

And while Blizzard has said they will make DKs the spellcaster tanks that does not mean the Warlock tank role. Warlock tanking is gimmick based, where DKs are much more conventional tanks (they are melee, afterall). A DK/Warrior/Bear will be interchangable for most raids fights in the game, it's just that some will do better than others in specific fights and worse in others. That is the stated intention from Blizzard at this time, anyway.

At the moment it looks like DKs will have the folowing strengths:

Able to tank.
Able to DPS.
Decent DPS while tanking (threat is based off damage as far as we know, not off +threat skills)
An Unholy tree with some powerful raid buffs/debuffs (+9% magic damage, AMZ, so forth)
Blizzard's intention to make them the best spellcaster tanks, though not a huge indication from current skills as to where that comes from.
Synergy with Frost Mages with frozen rune weapon and their frost spell damage.

I expect there will be three roles for DKs in raids in the end. The Unholy debuffer, the MT (looking likely to be frost/blood) and the DPS Offtank. You probably won't have more than 2 in a raid unless they are overpowered, but you'll see at least one or two in most I would expect.

[lamaros]

Alpha is over.

[Merusk]

Alpha is over.

And no hunter/ pally stuff patched in before it ended.  I'm sure that won't lead to any long-term problems. 

Yeah, as time goes on that reroll I did looks like it was the best choice I ever made.  Both my Alliance 70s with any serious play time were Hunter & Pally.  The other was a Priest, but I'm sick to death of healing as a clothy.

[lamaros]

Alpha is over.

And no hunter/ pally stuff patched in before it ended.  I'm sure that won't lead to any long-term problems. 

I'm pretty sure it'll make no real difference.

[Paelos]

Just cancel hunters in the expansion and give the players an equal level DK.

Problem solved.

[Chimpy]

Just cancel hunters in the expansion and give the players an equal level DK.

Problem solved.

Uhm, I don't want a melee character.

Just give me back all my subscription money for the months I played a hunter more than any other class.

[Paelos]

Yeah, that'll happen.

If all the hunters suddenly disappeared, the funny thing is that I don't think the game would change at all. Except there would be less dumbass elves running around.

[Ironwood]

But who'd take care of Hobbes ?

[Merusk]

And Sampson!  And Leopold!

Damn you, Paelos. You're killing my pets! 

[Trippy]

Hi guys, just wanted to point out that I've posted some guidelines about posting about games still under NDA here:

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=13793.0

Now WoW-related stuff is a little bit trickier than some of the other games out there because

1) Blizzard really doesn't care (as far as I can tell)

2) Some of the NDA-covered information has become so widespread that it's effectively "public knowledge" even though it's technically still under NDA

As the guidelines above state we're trusting you to use your best judgement on this stuff. If you are in doubt just don't post it.

However if any of you are in the NDA Alpha/Beta and you've been posting NDA-breaking material here that will get you ban if we find out about it after the fact so fess up about it now (send me a PM) and we'll discuss it.


Edit: NDA dropped 7/17 so ignore this post

[Ironwood]

Ouch.  Those rules are harsh and kinda general.

For my part, I have no idea what's NDA, I'm not in any Betas/Alphas and I've never signed anything.

I also have trouble keeping my gob shut.

I think this whole thread gets nuked, doesn't it ??

[Trippy]

Depends on what schild feels like doing. Fortunately for you guys schild could care less about WoW.

[Ironwood]

Aye, right now.  But wait until his level 60 Paladin changes get released.

[cevik]

I think this whole thread gets nuked, doesn't it ??

Everything in this thread can be found either here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.html?forumId=1793231&sid=1

Or directly linked to by posts in that forum that do not ever get deleted.  I can't see why you'd nuke this thread, it's pretty clear that Blizzard wants the info out there so they can force everyone to implement shitty half finished versions of the same systems and then laugh as they drive to the bank!

[slog]

I think this whole thread gets nuked, doesn't it ??

Everything in this thread can be found either here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.html?forumId=1793231&sid=1

Or directly linked to by posts in that forum that do not ever get deleted.  I can't see why you'd nuke this thread, it's pretty clear that Blizzard wants the info out there so they can force everyone to implement shitty half finished versions of the same systems and then laugh as they drive to the bank!

According to those rules, if it's possible that it's under NDA, then it gets nuked, even if Blizzard chooses not to enforce the NDA, and even if no one what is actually written in the NDA.

[cevik]

According to those rules, if it's possible that it's under NDA, then it gets nuked, even if Blizzard chooses not to enforce the NDA, and even if no one what is actually written in the NDA.

I'm not sure if you've re-read the rules since he changed it, but your indignation over the deleted post got some additional changes:

* If you are thinking about posting something that's not publically% available knowledge (i.e. that would break the NDA) DON'T, even if you haven't accepted any NDA agreement yourself.
...
% "Publically available knowledge" includes:

* Stuff the developer/publisher releases about the game (e.g. EA or Mythic in the case of WAR)
* Stuff on the main pages of reputable Web-sites (they won't risk posting NDA-breaking stuff for fear of being cut off by developer/publisher in the future)
* Stuff you've seen actually playing the game while not under an NDA (e.g. at public gaming shows)

Stuff that might not be publically available knowledge includes:

* Stuff you read about in forums
* Stuff you read about in Joe-random blog

Of course I'm assuming that stuff you read about on official forums constitutes stuff that the developer/publisher has released about the game, since you know, the publisher is not nuking the stuff on their own site (and even stickying 90% of the stuff in this thread), thus acquiescing to the fact that it's public knowledge.  Of course, if you read the line "Stuff you read about in forums" to mean on the official forums, and not on third party forums about the game, then you're interpretation may be different than mine.

Besides, Blizzard doesn't care enough about a niche site like f13 to hand out free beta accounts, so it's not like schild and trippy have to kiss Blizzard's asses.

[slog]

Besides, Blizzard doesn't care enough about a niche site like f13 to hand out free beta accounts, so it's not like schild and trippy have to kiss Blizzard's asses.

Ok that makes sense.

EDIT: Do we even know if WOTLK is under NDA?   NDA's often include language like "you may not reveal you are a beta tester." so revealing that there is an NDA would violate the policy (lol)

[Paelos]

Yeah, nothing in here is shocking. The talents were supposed to be released, and Blizzard wants to make sure the populace knows what they are doing so they can gain more interest in the expansion.

[kaid]

NDA handling with blizzard is odd even the most spoilery sites out that got talked to by blizzard all they were asked to do was take down pictures of loot the rest they did not complain about at all. Oh well should be all moot soon enough anyway once beta kicks live I am expecting that end of this month or begining of august. This is not any kind of NDA break just looking at the time frame for how stuff happened for TBC and so far WOTLK is following a similar pattern for how long different phases are lasting.

As for the whole end of beta thing that has been posted and reposted from the main wow forums to just about all the major wow pages so while technically NDA its also pretty much public knowledge now.

As for the hunter paladin stuff I would not be super worried just yet going to beta mostly means a big enough bulk of content is done and stable enough for testing. I am guessing you will see both the hunter and paladin stuff when beta goes live. The hunter stuff due to the revamp of how pets work is probably the delay there and for paladins I think they are just being very careful for balancing.

[Montague]

...and for paladins I think they are just being very careful not to reveal the talents because of the shitstorm it will cause.

Fixed that for ya.

[Simond]

Some official stuff to chew on while we wait for the to drop:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/features/gameplay/achievements.xml

While Wrath of the Lich King will improve many of World of Warcraft’s existing features, it will also introduce plenty of brand-new ones to keep the game fresh and interesting. One of these new features is sure to suit a wide range of play styles: achievements. These self-contained goals will offer new challenges, satisfy goal-oriented players, allow others to see your accomplishments in World of Warcraft -- and are just plain fun.

World of Warcraft’s achievements system will launch with more than 500 individual achievements covering every aspect of gameplay, including world exploration, PvE, PvP, professions, and character development; from the purely whimsical to the truly epic, there will be something for everyone. Some achievements come with in-game rewards such as tabards, vanity pets, and titles. All of these rewards are purely cosmetic and just for fun, but you’ll certainly stand out when you proudly display them.

And don’t fret about running out of achievements anytime soon. The list is easily expandable, so you can expect additional achievements with each new World of Warcraft content update.

[K9]

Interesting, I wonder whether they'll be character or account-based.

[Merusk]

I wondered when they were going to announce that.  There were screenshots of it up on wotlk.wiki previously, but went away after Blizz said "um hay... "   It's about time more MMOs picked this up.  So far it's just been LOTR, EQ2 and CoX. I need MOAR.

In anticipation, I've been running-around filling in the map as much as possible in the hopes that I'll snag that achievement on release day.   

[Merusk]

Interesting, I wonder whether they'll be character or account-based.

Pretty sure they're character based.

[K9]

I guess, or maybe they'll have a mix. Account-based achievements would allow for a bigger range of achievements (level one of every class to level 10, 20, 30. Get at least artisan in every crafting skill etc) whithout being ridiculous.

[kaid]

I had seen some stuff mentioned about achievements before but I was not putting to much faith into that being added but apparently it is going in. Its going to be pretty funny the moment a long time character logs in once WOTLK goes live for the huge spam of achievements being shouted out to the guild and everybody in the area.

Personally I hope there is some retroactive achievement called glutton for punishment for those who finished their teir .5 quest and killed valthalak. That was a long expensive very difficult for its time quest for minimal reward.

[Fordel]

The really important bit of info, is the confirmation on the barber shop. 

[Merusk]

I guess, or maybe they'll have a mix. Account-based achievements would allow for a bigger range of achievements (level one of every class to level 10, 20, 30. Get at least artisan in every crafting skill etc) whithout being ridiculous.

Oh, damn you're right.  I think it is a mix, because of something else I saw.. one of the achievements was "Has leveled every class to 70."  I wonder if that one comes up as "Mr. Poopinasock" for a title.

The really important bit of info, is the confirmation on the barber shop. 

That was confirmed a while ago, along with "learn new dance moves," I thought.

[Fabricated]

I had seen some stuff mentioned about achievements before but I was not putting to much faith into that being added but apparently it is going in. Its going to be pretty funny the moment a long time character logs in once WOTLK goes live for the huge spam of achievements being shouted out to the guild and everybody in the area.

Personally I hope there is some retroactive achievement called glutton for punishment for those who finished their teir .5 quest and killed valthalak. That was a long expensive very difficult for its time quest for minimal reward.

For some classes the Tier 0.5 set was actually pretty damn good. Not the warrior one however, which was half tank gear and half DPS gear. The warlock and mage sets were pretty fantastic if you had the astronomical amount of cash and time to put in. That fucking baron run was ridiculous.

[Merusk]

Yeah, but I don't expect any retroactive achievements for bosses killed unless you still have the loot.  Damn you limited bank space for hindering my pack-rat nature!*

*I still have all my T1 armor and Mandokir's Sting.  I'd have all my t2 and t4 as well if I'd had the space.

[Fordel]

That was confirmed a while ago, along with "learn new dance moves," I thought.

There's "confirmed" then there's official screen shots!

[Trippy]

According to those rules, if it's possible that it's under NDA, then it gets nuked, even if Blizzard chooses not to enforce the NDA, and even if no one what is actually written in the NDA.

If you read the guidelines there are no specific penalities for not following them other than if you are under NDA and you post NDA-breaking info -- that will get you a ban. In other words it's up to the whims of the Mods and Admins.

Also you keep bringing up this "not knowing what's in the NDA" stuff. I already answered your point here:

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=13743.msg479543#msg479543

If you keep bringing this up I will shut you up for wasting my time responding to you.