Diablo III Wild Speculation and Rumor Mongering Abounds

[Malakili]

Well, I liked how Torchlight was basically a hybrid between Diablo 1 and 2.  In Diablo 1, everybody could use spells, as everything was just based on stats. 

One of the things I really missed about Diablo 1 was the spell system.  I thought it was awesome that the spells you got in game where just as random as all the weapons.  Start a Wizard and your "build" is pretty much going to be entirely based on what spell drops you get, which will change every time you play.  I kind of wish they could recreate that somehow.  It always made me mad when I started playing Diablo 2 and I'd see a room full of bookshelves and book stands, get a thrill, then realize they all just dropped god damn town portal and identify scrolls. 

Oh how I loved the sight of a bookshelf in Diablo 1 

Slowpoke reply, but ++.
Playing Desktop Dungeon made me miss the randomness of Rogue, Telenguard and D1 in that respect. I think a Blizz has the deep pockets to tinker around with a more random progression system that doesn't necessarily mean you can be fucked on the first level.

Definitely, the spell system in Torchlight (as the recent example) allows for a decent amount of customibility in builds.  I, for instance, made a Hardcore mode Vanquisher that used summon spells that was actually pretty viable (I think I died around level 22-25 iirc).  Far less than optimal, but very fun and you can make a variety of things work.  I'm guessing we will see more defined classes in D3, as it seems to be the direction they went in D2 and again in Warcraft.  Not that it is the end of the world, I still loved Diablo 2, but there wasn't a ton of variety in builds.

[ahoythematey]

Ehhhhh, Diablo2 had a pretty good variety of different builds.  I recall making some pretty oddball choices and carrying them all the way through hell.

I agree with the sentiment, though, and would really like to see the dial turned a bit more towards roguelike.

[Shrike]

I recall that most of your variety of builds in D2 were usually based around some synergy between unique gear and talent trees--something like the "witchyzon" so popular on Amazon Basin for a time. Changing rulesets also brought some builds to the fore (speedazons in 1.09--good lord) while consigning others to the ash heap of history (spearazons in 1.10). Yeah, I was amazon centric in D2, especially after 1.08.

Nevertheless, once you had a good stash of oddball items you could tinker almost endlessly. Until then only a few things worked well through hell diff, especially if you were building a magic finding character (to obtain that stash of oddball items...).

[WindupAtheist]

So yeah, Diablo 2. Wanted to ask, are people playing offline expected to be able to do anything in Hell anymore? Because my zealot is getting massacred, and when I go to look at guides they assume I'm playing online and list items/runes I would have to farm for thousands of years to get. Also, unless I increase my health by a factor of 5 within the next 19 levels, I'll be way short of where I'm "supposed" to be.

[Musashi]

You're gonna have a rough time in Hell without rolling a MeteOrb or Blizzard Sorc that can farm Mephisto to get some stuff.  That's online or off.  But yes, if no farming, no hell.  Well, you can do hell, it's just going to be really painful.

[WindupAtheist]

I have like 800 health and Champion Skeletons walking around the Stony Field in Act 1 Hell can three-shot me if I don't chug potions constantly. This shit is just Not Viable as a solo melee type.

[Yegolev]

Perhaps interestingly, or not, my last boot of D2LoD caused me to switch to newer games permanently.  It is just too old and I have played it too much.  My low bar is now Titan Quest or Torchlight.  In light of this, I suggest not fucking bothering with Act 1 Hell as a melee.

[rrazcueta]

Playing D2 offline is retarded. The drop rates are specced for a giant economy that moves and flows. Even if you can't get that one unique that you want you can trade on sites like D2jsp. They're pretty advanced there - items are all traded for forum gold and forum gold is, well, currency. It works, I guess.

But yeah, I'm sorry it sucks to be forced online. That's what mods are for.

On a side note, I think that making the drop rates so retarded offline is a means of Blizzard forcing players to play online. E.g. check to see if their CD keys are legit.

[Ironwood]

If all you're doing is playing offline, play as far as you can get and then JUST FUCKING CHEAT.

 

[Tebonas]

What Ironwood says. :)

I fucking hate cheating in games, but if the Droprate in Action RPGS approach "Camping like a MMO retard" levels, I up the rate so that I don't have to kill bossmobs over and over again. Titan Quest was the one breaking me in that regard. After killing Typhon the tenth time it dawned on me that I could have stayed in Everquest as well if I am ready to do that.

[Shrike]

I have like 800 health and Champion Skeletons walking around the Stony Field in Act 1 Hell can three-shot me if I don't chug potions constantly. This shit is just Not Viable as a solo melee type.

It's viable, but you'd better be an amazon with a shield, a heavy skill investment in passives, a holy freeze merc, and a whole lot of life leech, FHR, and fast block gear.

But, yeah, you'll have to be online. I generally played online solo and farmed like crazy for gear to get me through hell (NM Meph is the place to be...). What little group play I'd tolerate was with friends or with Amazon Basin back in the day.

[WindupAtheist]

Cheats ahoy then. I'm just gonna drill the max allowed # of sockets in everything and gem up, see how much that helps. Anyone know a mod that ups the droprate without fucking with anything else?

[Sheepherder]

1. Get a character editor.
2. Max out increase % of gold dropped stat on a ring.  Max out increase % of rare items dropped on same ring.
3. ...
4. Profit.

[waffel]

Honestly playing online is cheating anyway. You'll probably be leveling up new characters in baal games run by bots. If you want any high-end rune words you either farm the runes (lol) or trade with dupers. And even if you just want to do casual trading, chances are items you find are worthless to everyone because the only items worth anything are dupped perfects.

[Ironwood]

I found a fantastic char editor about a year back which I used to try out new builds and new gear and have fun with some of the higher level runewords I hadn't tried.

It's fun, but it allows you to see the old man behind the curtain REALLY QUICKLY.

[WindupAtheist]

Yeah, I made a charm with a ton of magic find, run speed, and cast level infinity everything on hit. Then I filled my inventory with them and powerfarmed the fucking shit out of everything. I found lots of stuff, but not much of anything worth using. Screw this.

[Yegolev]

It's fun, but it allows you to see the old man behind the curtain REALLY QUICKLY.

Completely on-target, except that I did this in 1999.  Took me a good while to come back.

[FatuousTwat]

It's fun, but it allows you to see the old man behind the curtain REALLY QUICKLY.

Completely on-target, except that I did this in 1999.  Took me a good while to come back.

This ruined me on SP for a long time, and I really only played MP till I found MedianXL. I suggest you guys try it out, it replaces all skills, adds hundreds of new items, crafting, and new quests.

[Strazos]

My elemental assassin wrecks shit solo, in Hell.

[Ghambit]

So what's the concensus for the best multiplayer Diablo-clone out there??  Titan Quest?  (never played it, but thinking about it)
Mythos is in CB only in Korea, through Redbana... doesnt look to be ported back to the US anytime soon.
I had hopes for Mytheon but they failed horribly and are now locked in litigation.

[Shrike]

Probably the Sacred series.

None really measure up completely, but Sacred was compelling enough for what it was. The second game...eh...maybe a little less so in mechanics, but was overflowing with eyecandy.

There's a reason we're all pining for D3. Nothing else really has measured up.

[schild]

So what's the concensus for the best multiplayer Diablo-clone out there??  Titan Quest?  (never played it, but thinking about it)

Titan Quest came close.

Then Torchlight.

Then Fate.

Then, somewhere far away, Sacred.

Sacred was a fucking mess. The second one was a bigger fucking mess.

[ezrast]

Just to avoid confusion, Torchlight and Fate are not multiplayer.

[Rasix]

I'm sure people are confused about something that's reiterated every time the games are mentioned.

edit: schild might be a little. TEE HEE.  Or just reading selectively. 

[schild]

I just ignore the word multiplayer in these discussions. Since Single or Multi, Diablo 2 is still king of that castle. Gameplay > having some person killing stuff next to you, imo.

In other words, Sacred is still a mess, even if you can play with someone else. Torchlight and such are just fun either way.

[Ghambit]

Well, to me they're ALL "Gauntlet" clones.  That was the first game of its type - ever.   I have many many fond memories spending hours in the arcade (Grand Prix, schild - u know the place) with my friends trying to pwn that game back in the 80's.  So I'm kinda biased towards the MP thing, entertaining or not. 

[Teleku]

Well, to me they're ALL "Gauntlet" clones.  That was the first game of its type - ever.   I have many many fond memories spending hours in the arcade (Grand Prix, schild - u know the place) with my friends trying to pwn that game back in the 80's.  So I'm kinda biased towards the MP thing, entertaining or not. 

Err, I wouldn't consider Gauntlet as part of the same sort of game.  It was a game of "kill a shit load of random things", yes, but that's the only similarity to Diablo.  The loot and other mechanics behind it are important for defining the genre.  You may as well also bring up Smash TV and others like it if you want to go that route.

[Ghambit]

Well, to me they're ALL "Gauntlet" clones.  That was the first game of its type - ever.   I have many many fond memories spending hours in the arcade (Grand Prix, schild - u know the place) with my friends trying to pwn that game back in the 80's.  So I'm kinda biased towards the MP thing, entertaining or not.  

Err, I wouldn't consider Gauntlet as part of the same sort of game.  It was a game of "kill a shit load of random things", yes, but that's the only similarity to Diablo.  The loot and other mechanics behind it are important for defining the genre.  You may as well also bring up Smash TV and others like it if you want to go that route.

It was the first MP Fantasy action RPG wherein you as usual killed lots of shit and took their loot.  Essentially, that's wtf Diablo is!  The intricacies of the loot mechanic (and various other elements) dont make an original game of it really....  i.e. added depth does not equal true originality.  SmashTV was later on and little to nothing like either game - it was only 2 player, not fantasy, not rpg, no synergies, etc.... more like a top-down CONTRA than anything else, or a trumped up MP version of Robotron.

Oh hey, Robotron is just like Diablo!      Btw:  Diablo devs. themselves recognize their product as the same sort of game as Gauntlet; they didnt assume they were some kind of paradigm shifting game... even though it ended up that way (largely due to the advent of consumer networking).

[Dtrain]

I always thought of Diablo as a roguelike with graphics, an interface that an earthling could understand, and real time.

But I can see the similarity to Gauntlet - especially with a ranged class.

Trying to map this all into an evolutionary pedigree would be a fun, (if still ultimately flawed,) excercise. Some games have a very clear evolutionary lineage - others not so much. I think when we put Gauntlet, Roguelikes, and Diablo all next to eachother the differences are large and dispersed enough to qualify them as having had a revolutionary progression rather than evolutionary. In these days of "copy that game FTW!" I miss when you had a decent chance of finding something truly unique on your trip to the game store (or arcade, as the case may be.)

[Pennilenko]

I just really want D3 to come out now! AHHHH!

[Ghambit]

I just really want D3 to come out now! AHHHH!

Yah, it has to be the most "tense" impending release of any non-MMO PC-game I've ever seen.  It kind of scares me how long they're spending on the damned development.  I mean, we're talkin' one of the simpler game design choices out there... hence the reason clones are popular (especially in the amateur world).  The amount of polish and content they're putting into it leads me to believe it'll be one of the most soul-sucking experiences ever.

[Ironwood]

I think it'll be rotten.

[Musashi]

You're just suppressing your expectations.

I think it will be rotten too.

[WindupAtheist]

Gauntlet isn't anywhere in Diablo's DNA. They both feature fantasy characters killing loads of shit, but that's about it. Diablo was pretty much a straight-up case of someone going "Hey let's make Angband with graphics!" and Blizzard leadership going "Ok but make it real-time!" Seriously, IIRC the first pitch was for a turn-based game.

Edit: Shit, according to this they were 8 months into development when they decided to abandon turn-based.

[ezrast]

Yeah, IIRC Blizz came and looked at what Condor was doing and was all, "hey this should be real-time" and Condor was all "no that would be stupid" and Blizzard was all "okay whatevs" but then some programmer hacked in real-timeyness into the game on his own time, and nobody could stop playing it, so that's what they went with.