Diablo III Wild Speculation and Rumor Mongering Abounds

[Ironwood]

It was the loot, pretty much.

Torchlight loot was just bad.

[Merusk]

I guess I don't know enough about these games to see how it was bad.   The enchant system made it all pretty pointless, I agree, but the loot seemed on-par with Diablo 2's stuff to me. (And seems on-par with D3)

As for the beta updates:
 
I dislike the skill rune system.  I thought they were drops but they're granted on level-up so to get some of the ones you might want you have to wait until you cap. 

This entire system  is dumb.  The end-of-the-line runes aren't necessarily any better than the starting ones, which they should be in a game with levels.  To do otherwise makes them unintuitive and makes you wonder why rune x came after rune w

However, if they are, then they invalidate the earlier ones and everyone's the same at the end.  Dumb system; needs a rethink.

As part of that I dislike the new skill system, too.  Things have been dumbed-down so you have "Primary Attack" "Secondary Attack" "Defense" and "utillity" all auto-mapped and spread-out as you level.  The old build resource/ spend resource system is still there but buried under things meant to explain it to the clueless.  It also spread-out your skill gains a lot farther.  It feels more MMO-like now and that's a bad thing.

Not to mention the skill interface is just plain ugly compared to what it was.  Picking your skills used to take up half the screen in the traditional Diablo interface manner. Now it fills up the whole damn screen with a lot of unused brown space.  It feels shoveled-out and looks just like it.

On the class front all I've played is the Wizard.  They got some needed nerfs because they were a little TOO kickass for that early, but I'll miss disintegrating things because it was a damn fun spell.  You get it at level 20 now and the beta remains capped at 13 so, /sigh.   I feel a lot weaker with Ray of Frost in its place but it could be because I'm only level 9 and still building a new set of gear.   

Hopefully the Witch Doctor and Demon Hunter changes make them feel a little more powerful.  I felt weak the whole time I played them.

[Yegolev]

I liked Torchlight just fine as a short-quick means to make money for a real game, but it didn't have staying power... due to the loot being anemic, as well as other things (level design) that were simplistic due to the scope of the development.  Although there were things like the Sword of Adam, generally speaking I didn't have a strong pull to make it to the end with any character (characters also shallow for the listed reasons).  I can't enumerate it properly, but it fell somewhere between D2 and Borderlands in itemization due to the shitty mods.  It was below Mythos also, if memory serves.  All I want is fucking Mythos.

[Fabricated]

Torchlight was fun because it had the right look and feel. It wasn't well balanced and the loot was mediocre (completely random meaningless stats + like 3 different resistances) but it was fun. Hopefully they learned...considering how quiet they've been regarding TL2 and the 2-3 times they've missed their vaguely implied release dates I'm hoping they get it right.

[Paelos]

Yep the problem with Torchlight was the loot. It totally lacked in meaning and flavor.

[Yegolev]

I do have high hopes for the real game, though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpw34CgHYNw

[K9]

I thought the rune system was supposed to add more situational flavour and versatility that simple linear power increases? In which case the proposed system seems fair enough, although it does seem more bland than the old system.

I'll accept the justification about inventory management. Given the provisional clusterfuck surrounding gems, this might be a promising step. I wish I was in Beta so I could properly assess all this though *sigh*

[Ironwood]

This is one of those rare situations where I'm glad I'm not.

It all sounds like utter dobbins.

[Merusk]

I thought the rune system was supposed to add more situational flavour and versatility that simple linear power increases? In which case the proposed system seems fair enough, although it does seem more bland than the old system.

That's my understanding as well, which is why linking it to a drop system makes more sense than a level-gate.  

In my experience, level-gates always have the expectation that the next unlocked bit provides more utility or power.  If the unlock doesn't and it useless to your play style, you question why it's there in the first place.

Having the actual runes be random drops and you unlock the ability to rune a spell as you level up makes more sense in Action RPG paradigm, imo.


I'd give this feedback directly to Blizzard, but in their brilliance only WoW Subscribers can post to the beta forums.  Every time I go I get a, "your play time has expired.  Please subscribe to post," message.  There is no in-beta feedback tool. 

[Malakili]

Hmm, on the fence about the new skill system.  It screams "This needs to be playable on a console controller" to me, by having certain skills limited to certain slots like that.  Is there any reason I shouldn't be able to put whatver skill in whatever hotkey slot I want? Really?    I also dislike that it limits the combinations of skills I can choose further.  Probably with the idea that it will be harder to gimp yourself, but with free ability to switch skills out of combat, I don't see how that is a legitimate issue.  Not the end of the world by any stretch, but I don't think I like the new system as much as the previous one, which was fine as far as I was concerned.

As for the runes, yes, I also thought they were going to be drops.  Maybe it is just that things called runes drop in Diablo 2, so I assumed it in Diablo 3, but I liked the idea of maybe only having one alabaster rune and then choosing which skill I wanted to have it, etc.   That kind of thing is fun, and gives you incentive to look for more of them.

Edit - Ok, I'm reading that I can switch which hotkey something can be on, which is better, but this wasn't obvious to me after playing for 20 minutes or so on the new patch.  So, i'll have to check it out again later when I have some time. Ah, its called Elective mode, ok my bad.

[Merusk]

Article on the D3 site explaining the changes.  There's a flash movie of the system too, illustrating why I say it's damn ugly.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/4475014/Skill_and_Rune_Changes-2_18_2012#blog

Go to the skill calculator. It hasn't been updated yet.  It looked exactly like that in game and worked the same way.  I fail to see how it's any more or less intuitive than their current system.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian

Malakili:  The patch notes indicated that you can do something called "Elective mode" (Also on the blog) which will let you mix and match a bit better.  However, because of this change it makes Elective mode more confusing. Note they even say on the caption "(This screenshot depicts an 'Elective Mode' build made entirely of Primary and Secondary skills. Note that the skill slot names do not accurately reflect from which category a skill is selected in Elective Mode.)"

I don't hate the system.. I dislike it and think it was better off before but hey, maybe it's just because we're old and come from  a generation of gamers that had to figure shit out.  Times change.

[Malakili]

I don't hate the system.. I dislike it and think it was better off before but hey, maybe it's just because we're old and come from  a generation of gamers that had to figure shit out.  Times change.

Yeah, this feels about right.  And this elective mode seems to address my main concern, so my bad on that part of it.   

[fuser]

I so miss EQ's enchanter class I want to play as an Enchantress

[Nija]

The new skill system is actually making me rethink my previous stance on the game.

Except the Wizard's arcane orb with the first rune slotted in it is way overpowered. The blast radius is about a third of the screen.

[Ragnoros]

arcane orb with the first rune slotted in it is way overpowered.

I've played the beta (albeit, not the new patch). If you do not feel ridiculously overpowered in general you are doing it wrong, regardless of class. Yes, it is awesome.

[Malakili]

arcane orb with the first rune slotted in it is way overpowered.

I've played the beta (albeit, not the new patch). If you do not feel ridiculously overpowered in general you are doing it wrong, regardless of class. Yes, it is awesome.

To be fair, it is the first hour of easy ("normal") difficulty.

[Merusk]

You're also not very overpowered if you play it at the 'first run through' level and gearing, rather than how the majority of beta testers are playing it.

Fighting the Skeleton King at level 8/9 solo or in a group can get hairy at times.  Even if you run through every area, killing every mob you're still going to have gaps in your gear.  Whether it's due to a rare slot drop not happening (rings, non-warrior belts, shoulders) or you just haven't gotten a decent piece of equipment yet or because you haven't farmed enough gold to get the blacksmith to level 2.

Add a few levels so you're 12 or 13 when you fight the SK and he's easy.  Have a few uniques and the best blues you can get from the maxed-blacksmith and he's easy at level 8/9.  Combine the two and you see shit like the vids where he dies in under 10 seconds.

Most beta players complaining it's easy are doing that last part.  After the first character you run through, you forget what that first run is like on normal.  After my wizard hit level 13 the BS was maxed for the beta and I had enough gear to equip all my other characters without a problem.   That first run, however, I nearly died a number of times, being saved only by the usual "oh shit, run away and chug a potion" tactic that these games revolve around.

[Malakili]

It is *really* easy.  I've literally never died in beta except for the one time I died on purpose to see what happens when you die.  But then, I don't think I ever died before Blood Raven in Diablo 2 on normal mode either, and this is meant to be even easier than the beginning of Diablo 2.  Remember that Normal mode can be thought of as "casual" mode according to Blizzard, they've explicitly said veterans can only expect to be challenged by later difficulties.

[Sophismata]

Hell, I've never even drunk a potion. Arcane Orb with the rune is insanely strong, dealing 250% weapon damage to over half the screen with no inherent cool-down aside from resource management. The Wizard makes everything else look bad.

Merusk, you can post on the beta forums as long as you switch your active account over to the D3Beta account, and not a WoW character.

[Merusk]

Oh hey, thanks.  I never even considered that.  I figured since it was all linked to the same Blizz acct they'd posting account-wide.  How very odd.

As for ease.. yeah, it is, when you're almost 2x the level you should be and geared-out.  I had to drink a potion twice on a fresh play-through wizard that was done in a group setting.  (Tho the other guy was also a wizard so it's not like we had a meat shield.)

Anyone else notice a distinct lack of multiplayer games now vs. pre-patch?  Seems it actually has to wait for people now and most of my Skeleton King runs have been only me and one other player.  A few weeks ago it was always a full group within 2-3 seconds of hitting "multiplayer."

[ezrast]

Before I wrap up, I did want to cover that one of the added benefits of the new system is that you’ll be unlocking something every level all the way up to the level cap (60). Now, with each level you’ll unlock at least one new skill or rune, and in most cases you’ll be unlocking three or four.

So now certain builds will be inaccessible before cap, decided arbitrarily by how they lay out level requirements. Fucking brilliant.

[Malakili]

So now certain builds will be inaccessible before cap, decided arbitrarily by how they lay out level requirements. Fucking brilliant.

Yea, pretty lame.  On the plus side, I'm thinking max level will be a lot easier to attain in D3 than it was in D2.

[Sophismata]

Anyone else notice a distinct lack of multiplayer games now vs. pre-patch?  Seems it actually has to wait for people now and most of my Skeleton King runs have been only me and one other player.  A few weeks ago it was always a full group within 2-3 seconds of hitting "multiplayer."

Apparently the public game interface is bugged. Arcane Orb was dangerous even before I got kitted out - the Wizard has the advantage of being able to use any weapon that isn't class-specific. Just pick whatever has the highest damage (not necessarily DPS). It's possible you can be unlucky, but since weapon type doesn't matter, you'll usually find something. The rune upgrade to Arcane Orb makes it a one-stop shop for everything, it performs much better than disintegrate did.

Playing from scratch with a melee class is much more challenging (and consequently fun), and there have been times when I've been in genuine danger of the scavenger boss packs. But the difference between being able to kill something when you're in melee with it and being able to kill it before it knows you are there is huge.

[Phred]

You're also not very overpowered if you play it at the 'first run through' level and gearing, rather than how the majority of beta testers are playing it.

Fighting the Skeleton King at level 8/9 solo or in a group can get hairy at times.  Even if you run through every area, killing every mob you're still going to have gaps in your gear.  Whether it's due to a rare slot drop not happening (rings, non-warrior belts, shoulders) or you just haven't gotten a decent piece of equipment yet or because you haven't farmed enough gold to get the blacksmith to level 2.

A friend of mine and I did a run through after the recent wipe and I have to say it was totally trivial so I have no idea what you're talking about here.

I ran another char through solo after the wipe as well and it was pretty damn easy as well.

[Morfiend]

I just played through for the first time with a Demon Hunter, and I found it pretty easy. I dont think it really needs to be toned up though, like was started, it is the first hour of the first difficulty level.

I think maybe they should make the health orbs that drop a tad more rare. As like someone else I never had to use a heal potion. I killed the Skeleton King at level 8 I think.

[Flinky]

Put me in the 'Don't like the new skill runes system' camp as well.

Seeing as a lot of the changes to the skillls the runes bring to the table are about utility rather than raw power, it doesn't quite make sense to me that you should be still unlocking them until nearly level cap. It just feels...clunky. Personally I liked their initial philosophy of making the first difficulty level a time to figure out a playstyle that suits you best (or you find the most entertaining) with further difficulty levels testing that build against more challenging situations as you grow in power. It worked in D2 and I'm not sure why they shifted from that to telling the players "Yes, that skill change DOES look cool, but you're going to have to get to Act X in Hell difficulty before you even get to select it". A good item system should be the incentive to grind, not your choice in playstyle.

[Azazel]

Is that right?  I know some people didn't feel like Torchlight didn't have the long term appeal of D2 due to the fact that it didn't have a closed server system or multiplayer at all for that matter.  But I don't recall D2 fans saying they didn't like the game in principle, more that they wished it had more features and was a bit more fleshed out.

Yeah some felt that way but I know that at least one or two (and I think Schild was one of them) said Torchlight just failed them in every way.  I think Yegolev was another but I could be mistaken.

Torchlight seemed like it had potential, but the total lack of multiplayer meant I got down to about the second floor down of that first mine/dungeon at the edge of town and just never got back to it. I just can't find the interest for RPG-type games that make me exclude my wife from playing alongside me. If it had MP, I'm sure I'd have finished it several times with multiple characters, along with my wife and our 2 friday-night LAN-friends.

[apocrypha]

Got beta invite email today! Hurrah! Guessing they've sent out a large batch of Euro ones finally.

Only had about 30 mins to play but what I've seen so far feels great. Liking the engine much more than I thought I was going to from the screenshots although the AA is a bit overly soft, I'll have to try tweaking that in my graphics driver settings.

Difficulty wise it felt about right to me on first play, albeit a bit more restricted than D2. I made a barbarian and have only come close to dying once so far on a timed survival type quest that I triggered in the Cathedral. There haven't been any areas I've found that made me sweat - compare to D2 where it was totally possible to wander into mobs like Bloodraven and get WTF'd if you weren't careful. Still, great fun, really feels like Diablo, but with a shiny new engine.

[LK]

"Feels like Diablo but with a shiny new engine."

That's positive news.

[apocrypha]

"Feels like Diablo but with a shiny new engine."

That's positive news.

It is!

Loving the music - it's new, but it's got old Diablo music buried in it. Oh and shared stash =  .

[Malakili]

As we’re counting down the days until we’re ready to announce a release date for Diablo III, we’ve come to realize that the PvP game and systems aren’t yet living up to our standards. Today, we wanted to let you know that we’ve made the difficult decision to hold back the PvP Arena system and release it in a patch following the game’s launch. After a lot of consideration and discussion, we ultimately felt that delaying the whole game purely for PvP would just be punishing to everyone who’s waiting to enjoy the campaign and core solo/co-op content, all of which is just about complete.

Source: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/4574895/Diablo_III_PvP_Update-3_9_2012#blog

Interesting choice.  I'm fine with it, I wasn't planning on ever touching PvP in Diablo 3 anyway.  I wonder if there will be any backlash.  The main Diablo community has always been PvE minded as far as I know, though I am aware there is a strict contingent of PvPers who swear by it.

[Merusk]

I just wish they'd fix the matchmaking.  I've done Act 1 enough that I don't want to do it anymore single player.   Plus I seem to get lag a lot in SP, which I'm also going to attribute to the whole fuxored MP thing.

[waffel]

As we’re counting down the days until we’re ready to announce a release date for Diablo III, we’ve come to realize that the PvP game and systems aren’t yet living up to our standards. Today, we wanted to let you know that we’ve made the difficult decision to hold back the PvP Arena system and release it in a patch following the game’s launch. After a lot of consideration and discussion, we ultimately felt that delaying the whole game purely for PvP would just be punishing to everyone who’s waiting to enjoy the campaign and core solo/co-op content, all of which is just about complete.

Source: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/4574895/Diablo_III_PvP_Update-3_9_2012#blog

Interesting choice.  I'm fine with it, I wasn't planning on ever touching PvP in Diablo 3 anyway.  I wonder if there will be any backlash.  The main Diablo community has always been PvE minded as far as I know, though I am aware there is a strict contingent of PvPers who swear by it.

Ok seriously how the fuck? This game has been in development for what, 5+ years? By an AAAA developer, yet during all that time they weren't able to flesh out a PvP system?

Come on, man...

[Hawkbit]

Yep, I don't get it.  They have a metric shit-ton of money and this thing has been in dev for a very long time, yet they're cutting major stuff to get a "timely" release?  

I have a feeling this game won't be as good as I want it to be.

EDIT:  In hindsight, I think they might be cutting dev time to get some cashflow/box sales going soon.  They have nothing new on shelves and likely want to change that up a bit.

[Rokal]

It'll be ready when it's done...ish