Spore/Mass Effect Requires A Virgin Sacrifice on Western Coast of Easter Island

[Sairon]

Unless they're extremely stupid I don't think this move was made to hinder pirates, it was more targeted at limiting second hand sales. All the bad press this has generated more than likely doesn't make up for it.

[Murgos]

It's extremely unfortunate that a number of executive level goofs will simply see '500,000' torrented dl's as justification for even more draconian DRM.

Also, second hand sales are a GOOD thing.  More people get to experience your product.  Full stop.  From the original purchaser who knows he will recoup some of the expense so he can try more items, to the cash poor after-market type that will be more likely to try it and if it's good, more likely to buy the next edition at the full price.

This concept works for books, music, movies, furniture, cars, etc... pretty much everything really.  Trying to limit it is just silly.

[Lantyssa]

This is so awesome.

[Soln]

The point for me is that if Spore becomes a classic game then I will want to reinstall it and replay forever.     Shit I still reinstall Alpha Centauri and Civ2 every 6-8 months.  The fact I can't do this makes me suspicious that Spore is not a game I will want to cherish.  That and some comments here and elsewhere.


Having the DRM in place doesn't just limit 2nd-hand sales (which for the record is what everyone should be able to do as a consumer) it also fubars the chance of wanting to put this game on your mantelpiece as a keepsake to continue to replay.

[Azazel]

Unless they're extremely stupid I don't think this move was made to hinder pirates, it was more targeted at limiting second hand sales. All the bad press this has generated more than likely doesn't make up for it.

Are second-hand sales really that big in the US? EB doesn't take PC games for trade-ins here.

[Brolan]

This is insane.  In my younger days I was a pirate.  Not because I liked to steal stuff but I couldn't afford to get every game I wanted, and it was so easy to get a friend's copy.

The last 15 years I have been on the straight-and-narrow and purchased everything I play.  I don't want to return to my pirate days because I know what I was doing is wrong.  But the DRM protections on Spore and other games are wrong as well.

I'm in the uncomfortable position of giving up my favorite hobby, doing something wrong, or bending over and taking it from EA. 

Hey EA, you may be responsible for ending PC computer gaming as we all know it.  I hope you are fucking happy.

[Azazel]

I saw some fucking stupid interview with a cunt representitive from EA defending the DRM by claiming that only 25% or 32% of people have installed their copies of Spore on a second machine, and only like 2% on a third machine. This, therefore was justification that 3 installs, like, forever, is justified.

The game has only been out a fucking week.


edit - corrected formatting

[Tebonas]

In a few weeks you are supposed to buy a new game and forget about the old one. Nobody replays old games anyway

[Azazel]

Hm.. found this on the Crymod forums. Looks like the Spore backlash achieved something else?

"EA is expediting development of a system that will allow consumers to de-authorize machines and move authorizations to new machines. This system will effectively give you direct control to manage your authorizations between an unlimited number of different machines without having to contact EA customer service."
http://www.crymod.com/thread.php?threadid=36999

It's being discussed in relation to Crysis: Warhead, but I imagine it'd be across the board on the new SecuROM games. Wait and see.

[Tebonas]

Sounds like the Sacred 2 DRM to me. Isn't that from Securom as well?

[Trippy]

Hm.. found this on the Crymod forums. Looks like the Spore backlash achieved something else?

"EA is expediting development of a system that will allow consumers to de-authorize machines and move authorizations to new machines. This system will effectively give you direct control to manage your authorizations between an unlimited number of different machines without having to contact EA customer service."
http://www.crymod.com/thread.php?threadid=36999

It's being discussed in relation to Crysis: Warhead, but I imagine it'd be across the board on the new SecuROM games. Wait and see.

They are loosening slightly the DRM restrictions on Spore as well:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2008/09/ea-to-spore-pla.html

[UnSub]

In order to track the impact of DRM vs non-DRM on piracy, we'd need a title of comparable hype that had no DRM / copy protection and then track how many times it was torrented. None spring to mind. Any suggestions?

Also, I think the lesson the industry will learn from Spore is not "no DRM", but rather "don't bother developing for the PC as your primary system".

[Stephen Zepp]

In order to track the impact of DRM vs non-DRM on piracy, we'd need a title of comparable hype that had no DRM / copy protection and then track how many times it was torrented. None spring to mind. Any suggestions?

Also, I think the lesson the industry will learn from Spore is not "no DRM", but rather "don't bother developing for the PC as your primary system".

Tribes. Easily an order of magnitude (no solid/internal numbers, but what I've seen scattered about the internet suggest that 60,000 copies were purchased, more than 500,000 pirated).

[Megrim]

In order to track the impact of DRM vs non-DRM on piracy, we'd need a title of comparable hype that had no DRM / copy protection and then track how many times it was torrented. None spring to mind. Any suggestions?

Also, I think the lesson the industry will learn from Spore is not "no DRM", but rather "don't bother developing for the PC as your primary system".

Tribes. Easily an order of magnitude (no solid/internal numbers, but what I've seen scattered about the internet suggest that 60,000 copies were purchased, more than 500,000 pirated).

He asks for comparative level of hype and you quote Tribes?! The hell...

Try Starcraft 2. I bet they will sell more then people pirate, and won't have DRM.

[Stephen Zepp]

In order to track the impact of DRM vs non-DRM on piracy, we'd need a title of comparable hype that had no DRM / copy protection and then track how many times it was torrented. None spring to mind. Any suggestions?

Also, I think the lesson the industry will learn from Spore is not "no DRM", but rather "don't bother developing for the PC as your primary system".

Tribes. Easily an order of magnitude (no solid/internal numbers, but what I've seen scattered about the internet suggest that 60,000 copies were purchased, more than 500,000 pirated).

He asks for comparative level of hype and you quote Tribes?! The hell...

Try Starcraft 2. I bet they will sell more then people pirate, and won't have DRM.

Even though a niche game, Tribes had an incredible amount of hype and "true viral" (as opposed to planned) word of mouth. Obvioulsly it doesn't match in scale, but in ratio of available internet audience to total penetration it was much higher than any other game of the time.

[Megrim]

In order to track the impact of DRM vs non-DRM on piracy, we'd need a title of comparable hype that had no DRM / copy protection and then track how many times it was torrented. None spring to mind. Any suggestions?

Also, I think the lesson the industry will learn from Spore is not "no DRM", but rather "don't bother developing for the PC as your primary system".

Tribes. Easily an order of magnitude (no solid/internal numbers, but what I've seen scattered about the internet suggest that 60,000 copies were purchased, more than 500,000 pirated).

He asks for comparative level of hype and you quote Tribes?! The hell...

Try Starcraft 2. I bet they will sell more then people pirate, and won't have DRM.

Even though a niche game, Tribes had an incredible amount of hype and "true viral" (as opposed to planned) word of mouth. Obvioulsly it doesn't match in scale, but in ratio of available internet audience to total penetration it was much higher than any other game of the time.

Wouldn't it be so much easier to just compare in scale though?

[UnSub]

The issue is that defining 'scale' is a hard thing to do. I'd like to have a useable point of comparison for future pro- / anti-DRM discussions.

It all comes down to this: a lot of people are going "Screw DRM - it doesn't help anyone but pirates!". But if DRM (and I include a lot of things under DRM, so perhaps I should go back to the old term 'copy protection') on a title stops day one piracy which in turn sees sales go up, then yeah, it is actually worth considering.

Perhaps BioShock is a good comparison title for Spore, since its DRM held up for 3 weeks post title launch on the PC?

[Fordel]

If 500,000 people pirated tribes (which I doubt), they sure didn't seem to be playing it.

[UnSub]

If 500,000 people pirated tribes (which I doubt), they sure didn't seem to be playing it.

Perhaps pirates don't put much time / value into titles they can get for free?

[Reg]

They probably played the hell out of the game then once they got tired of it told everyone they knew how much it sucked and how glad they were they'd stolen it.

[Megrim]

The issue is that defining 'scale' is a hard thing to do. I'd like to have a useable point of comparison for future pro- / anti-DRM discussions.

It all comes down to this: a lot of people are going "Screw DRM - it doesn't help anyone but pirates!". But if DRM (and I include a lot of things under DRM, so perhaps I should go back to the old term 'copy protection') on a title stops day one piracy which in turn sees sales go up, then yeah, it is actually worth considering.

Perhaps BioShock is a good comparison title for Spore, since its DRM held up for 3 weeks post title launch on the PC?

It doesn't have to be particularly hard; Sims and stuff sold/are selling how much? Blizzard's games i'd say are in the comparative bracket in the market penetration/popularity at the least. As such, Spore has had HUGE hype over the past year, ditto for Starcraft 2. Seems like a reasonable enough comparison to me (as opposed to the obviously loaded example of Tribes).

[apocrypha]

EA have backed down and are patching the DRM out. Unlimited installs and more than one screen name per account, only allowed on 5 seperate machines at a time.

Plus they're threatening to ban people if they keep discussing the DRM on the forums.

Do ya think someone in a suit said "draw a line under this NOW"? :p

[Trippy]

DRM is not being removed and where did you see that they are allowing than one screen name per account?

[apocrypha]

I read it on The Register.

The company will now allow players to install the game an unlimited number of times, so long as its not installed on more than five computers at the same time. EA also plans to release a patch this week to support multiple screen names, allowing families to play separate games on a shared computer.

I dunno if that counts as a removal of the DRM or not, but it's certainly a climbdown of sorts isn't it?

[Hawkbit]

I dunno if that counts as a removal of the DRM or not, but it's certainly a climbdown of sorts isn't it?

It's unfuckingacceptable is what it is.  Not to mention that they haven't said a word on their website about it yet.  I love how the locked thread on their forums says "If there is any change you will be able to read it on the official Spore site" yet nothing is there yet. 

My guess?  They up the installs from 3 to 5, leave the DRM in and never allow multiple accounts.  If they were to side in the consumer's favor on all three they might actually have a game that will sell dozens of expansions ala the Sims.  But at this rate, they put at stake the very future of the base game. 

[UnSub]

Ahh... went forward on the wrong page, lost what I'd typed...

Anyway, BioShock removed its DRM a long time post-launch and if Spore's DRM is already cracked at launch, there probably isn't a great deal in having it there.

BioShock appears to have sold 77k units in its first week on the PC (and nearly 500k units on the Xbox 360 according to here) when no cracks existed. How is Spore looking for first week sales?

[Morat20]

EA have backed down and are patching the DRM out. Unlimited installs and more than one screen name per account, only allowed on 5 seperate machines at a time.

Plus they're threatening to ban people if they keep discussing the DRM on the forums.

Do ya think someone in a suit said "draw a line under this NOW"? :p

I'd be pretty happy if they removed the "one screen name per account". My kid and my wife love the game, but so far they're SOL on sharing creatures because I have the only account name and didn't want to end up with their creations mixed in with mine.

hell, my son HAS an account name -- he used the editor demo. I just can't link it to my spore game.

[schild]

How is Spore looking for first week sales?

Excellent.

[Sky]

Down to 12,000-14,000 new users a day now.

[Trippy]

I read it on The Register.

The company will now allow players to install the game an unlimited number of times, so long as its not installed on more than five computers at the same time. EA also plans to release a patch this week to support multiple screen names, allowing families to play separate games on a shared computer.

I dunno if that counts as a removal of the DRM or not, but it's certainly a climbdown of sorts isn't it?

It is and I posted about it 11 posts above yours but it's not a removal.

[Hawkbit]

Seems someone got a class action off the ground:

http://www.courthousenews.com/2008/09/23/spore.pdf

I'm not going to postulate on how far it will get, but if there's an offchance it brings about change to how Securom acts, then it's for the best. 

[eldaec]

How in heaven's name do EA know how many concurrent installs I have?

Last time I checked PCs do not emit whalesong when they die.


FAKE EDIT: Actually, scratch that, we're talking about Spore, so EA know precisely how many installs I have. But hypothetically, if we were talking about something not shit, my point stands.

[eldaec]

Penny Arcade does DRM all week.

DRM takes a big poo on your best customers -- the ones who've given you money -- whilst doing nothing practical to prevent others from 'stealing' your precious content juices. Worse, it makes these renegades feel nice and righteous about sticking it to 'the man'. Stop trying to persuade people to love you more by hitting them a rusty pipe. Put down the pipe, and give up on DRM.

[Soln]

you know in a site where they repeatedly curse/swear, berate, put-down -- any kind of outrageous/unfair behavior you can imagine -- this is a pretty tame set of strips.  And no blog opinion.  Are they trying to avoid something that might hurt their advertising?

[bhodi]

No blog opinion since they're on vacation.