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Author Topic: Spore/Mass Effect Requires A Virgin Sacrifice on Western Coast of Easter Island  (Read 87591 times)
Threash
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on: May 10, 2008, 03:52:37 PM

Which means rather than buying them i will pirate them completely guilt free.  Here is the link, don't know if this has been posted yet.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2008, 05:18:36 PM by schild »

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TripleDES
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Reply #1 on: May 10, 2008, 03:56:41 PM

EA backpedalled and changed it to validate only on additional content downloads. With Mass Effect, it'll be DLC, with Spore, who the fuck knows, since it'll be getting all its stuff from the web, anyway.

EVE (inactive): Deakin Frost -- APB (fukken dead): Kayleigh (on Patriot).
climbjtree
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Reply #2 on: May 10, 2008, 07:07:42 PM

Is that Erin Esurance in your avatar?
Azazel
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Reply #3 on: May 10, 2008, 07:23:28 PM

Quote
Electronic Arts also released a statement mentioning that Spore's copy protection will be similarly changed to allow for offline play, only requiring validation on a patch or game content update.

The publisher further noted that the protection will still only allow users to authenticate each game on up to three computers. Approval of further authorizations will be handled by EA customer support on a case-by-case basis. Neither game will require players to have the disc in their computer in order to play or validate them.

Sorry Stormwaltz, I'll be pirating (or totally skipping) ME (and Spore) due to this. And I've bought all my software as originals for years. My copy of KOTOR has been installed at least 4 times, counting my upgrades and Windows-wipes. I still probably need to download Bioshock from the net sometime.

If I do the right thing and buy an original, I get saddled with bullshit copy protection. If I do the wrong thing and steal it, I don't have to worry about that bullshit.

If I get treated like a criminal, I'll behave like one. Or not buy the product.
Either way, it's a real sale lost, as opposed to the pretend sales losses from pirates who would never have bought your product.



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Azazel
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Reply #4 on: May 10, 2008, 07:34:36 PM

And yes, I know it's not Stormwaltz' personal fault or anything.


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Aez
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Reply #5 on: May 10, 2008, 08:51:54 PM

I hate this kind of shit but isn't it just like Steam.  Even lighter since it's only a punctual verification instead of a perpetual verification.
Azazel
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Reply #6 on: May 10, 2008, 10:32:45 PM

Well, no. My steam account works on any computer I have. If I change computers, upgrade my machine, do a complete wipe, whatever, I can just download it again and play. I can also select the "go offline" mode. I mean, I have 3 desktops here right now, all with my Steam account basics loaded onto them.

for ME and Spore, 4 installs EVAR and after that contact EA "customer service" to be able to install a game I bought and paid for can go fuck itself.


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SnakeCharmer
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Reply #7 on: May 11, 2008, 12:06:00 AM

So, edumacate me on why everyone's panties are in a bunch over this?  Is it just a concern over drive wipes/reinstalls?

Also, isn't Spore supposed to be an online game anyway?  Or no?  I'm a Sporen00b, don't know anything about it other than you get to play God in a 'round about way.
Tebonas
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Reply #8 on: May 11, 2008, 01:38:28 AM

Its a concern over being able to play the games I buy now in 5 years or so again if the fancy strikes me, just as I play games from five years ago right now again.

I have enough Microprose originals in my games collection that I know I would be screwed now if they behaved that way back then. Darklands and Master of Magic to name just the two installed at the moment.

You wanna guess how many new installs I had the last five years? Let alone the last 16?
Samwise
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Reply #9 on: May 11, 2008, 01:43:54 AM

If you enjoy the game that much, the least you can do is buy a fresh new copy of it once in a while.

"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
Stephen Zepp
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Reply #10 on: May 11, 2008, 01:49:28 AM

Note: I'm quoting Threash, but this is a general rant, not aimed at him as an individual (although the rant certainly applies), but the entire generations that seem to think they can steal what they want, when they want.

[rant]

Which means rather than buying them i will pirate them completely guilt free.  Here is the link, don't know if this has been posted yet.

What gives you the right to steal a product simply because you don't like the way they decide to protect it?

Some analogies to drive it into your morally corrupt, thieving brain:

--I don't like the way McDonald's packages their happy meals, so I'm going to break in and steal them.
--I think automobiles shouldn't have finance charges, therefore I'm going to carjack whatever one tickles my fancy.

Stealing a software product because you don't agree with how the company does business isn't "speaking with your wallet", it isn't being a rebel, it's breaking the law.

If you don't agree, don't buy it--but this sense of entitlement that gives the gaming world the impetus to steal what they don't want to pay for because it's software is fucking things up for everyone--developers and gamers.

Do you think we (developers) LIKE having to protect our software? Do you think we all drive ferraris and dine on caviar off the breasts of $1000 whores every night? It's how we make our freaking living...and you are stealing our product.

Stop it. You don't have the right--you aren't entitled no matter what you seem to think.

[/rant]

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Reply #11 on: May 11, 2008, 02:03:27 AM

Uhhh, that's not how it works. It's not about entitlement or 'the "right" to steal.' In this particular case, the people saying they'll pirate it would rather piss the company off with a crime they'll really NEVER get in trouble for. Not buying something is voting with your wallet. Stealing it is making a point.
Tebonas
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Reply #12 on: May 11, 2008, 02:07:29 AM

I agree with Zepp actually. If I don't like they way you decide to protect your game you can shove it up your behind. Its your right to eat that particular copy to get yourself fed and it is not my right to steal it.

I just dispute that there is a relevent group of people that wants to steal a game, but if they can't will just buy it instead. Copy protections for offline games will get cracked because thats a fun activity for some people, and everybody who has a habit of stealing them just waits the extra few days. The paying customers are the only ones really getting screwed.

You can't make a political statement that way anyway because marketing spin will be that their copy protection was too ineffective and therefore nobody did buy it. They are remarkably oblivious to the truth.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 02:12:12 AM by Tebonas »
Azazel
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Reply #13 on: May 11, 2008, 02:14:41 AM

I know it's how you make your living, and for years now I have bought original software, even to the extent of buying originals of older stuff I played in the past and may never actually install or play again. Call it what you like, but it makes me happy so fuck it.

What gives you the right to steal a product simply because you don't like the way they decide to protect it?

If you don't agree, don't buy it

See, that's the thing here. This kind of protection means I'm not really buying the product. It's long-term rental at best.


Please read the following quoted three lines for my perspective. See if any of them makes sense from a business standpoint, especially since I would like to legitimately purchase these products.


If I do the right thing and buy an original, I get saddled with bullshit copy protection. If I do the wrong thing and steal it, I don't have to worry about that bullshit.

If I get treated like a criminal, I'll behave like one. Or not buy the product.
Either way, it's a real sale lost, as opposed to the pretend sales losses from pirates who would never have bought your product.


It's not an entitlement-whore mentality, either. It's an ownership one. If I buy something, I own it and have the right to do whateverthefuckIwant with it from that point onwards. This kind of protection says I don't really own the copy of the product I buy. So why buy it?



As an addendum. I stillhaven't bought or pirated Bioshock, I've been waiting for them to remove the stupid level of protection, hopefully a year or so after release when it's no longer a hot new release. If I do decide I must play Bioshock though, and it's not yet unfucked, I will aquire a copy that's not riddled with ridiculous copy protecton.

« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 02:18:40 AM by Azazel »

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Stephen Zepp
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Reply #14 on: May 11, 2008, 02:33:25 AM

Uhhh, that's not how it works. It's not about entitlement or 'the "right" to steal.' In this particular case, the people saying they'll pirate it would rather piss the company off with a crime they'll really NEVER get in trouble for. Not buying something is voting with your wallet. Stealing it is making a point.

Is your moral compass so corrupted that you think that actually makes sense?

You just claimed that it's ok for muggers to steal from little old ladies at the ATM to make a point. All they have to do is to wear a mask, and feel as if they are being held down by the establishment (what, I have to WORK for a living? Why--I'll just make a point by stealing--I'll never get caught).

Or, let's turn it around:

--I don't like the way you run f13. In fact, I hate it so much, I'm going to hack the servers and destroy how you make money.

By your argument, it's not a problem at all, since I'm just making a point


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Stephen Zepp
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Reply #15 on: May 11, 2008, 02:36:12 AM

I know it's how you make your living, and for years now I have bought original software, even to the extent of buying originals of older stuff I played in the past and may never actually install or play again. Call it what you like, but it makes me happy so fuck it.

What gives you the right to steal a product simply because you don't like the way they decide to protect it?

If you don't agree, don't buy it

See, that's the thing here. This kind of protection means I'm not really buying the product. It's long-term rental at best.


Please read the following quoted three lines for my perspective. See if any of them makes sense from a business standpoint, especially since I would like to legitimately purchase these products.


If I do the right thing and buy an original, I get saddled with bullshit copy protection. If I do the wrong thing and steal it, I don't have to worry about that bullshit.

If I get treated like a criminal, I'll behave like one. Or not buy the product.
Either way, it's a real sale lost, as opposed to the pretend sales losses from pirates who would never have bought your product.


It's not an entitlement-whore mentality, either. It's an ownership one. If I buy something, I own it and have the right to do whateverthefuckIwant with it from that point onwards. This kind of protection says I don't really own the copy of the product I buy. So why buy it?



As an addendum. I stillhaven't bought or pirated Bioshock, I've been waiting for them to remove the stupid level of protection, hopefully a year or so after release when it's no longer a hot new release. If I do decide I must play Bioshock though, and it's not yet unfucked, I will aquire a copy that's not riddled with ridiculous copy protecton.



I don't feel as strongly about what you said, even though you did slightly imply you'd be willing to pirate it. But again, renting is a business practice to make money--if you don't like the fact that you can't keep videos from NetFlix for good, then you simply don't rent them--you don't freaking steal them.

I'm sure however that some people do rent once and make copies for future use, but doing it doesn't make it right, it just makes you morally corrupt.

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Tebonas
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Reply #16 on: May 11, 2008, 02:40:27 AM

Taking the same money for renting out things that others do for selling them doesn't smell like roses, either. If that fact isn't visible on the actual box you buy in the shop (sorry rent), its morally corrupt as well.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 02:42:43 AM by Tebonas »
Margalis
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Reply #17 on: May 11, 2008, 02:55:09 AM

Quote
If you don't agree, don't buy it--but this sense of entitlement that gives the gaming world the impetus to steal what they don't want to pay for because it's software is fucking things up for everyone--developers and gamers.

You are confusing a bunch of disparate groups:

1. People who can't afford to pay. (For high-end things like say Maya, Photoshop, etc)
2. People who pirate as a demo or pirate something they don't particularly care for and would never pay for anyway.
3. People who refuse to pay for rental crippleware.
4. People who pirate whatever because they are cheap bastards.

Group 1 and 2 don't result in any lost revenue. Group 4 results in major lost revenue. Group 3 results in lost revenue but that's totally within your control as a developer.

Edit: And as Tebonas points out, some of these EULA's are so totally absurd they are immoral if not criminal. According to most EULA's the software doesn't have to do a damn thing and can destroy your computer if it wants. If companies are going to fuck over consumers it's hard to feel too terrible when consumers fuck them right back.

What gives you the "right" to put out a 10-page all-caps legalese piece of shit saying your software doesn't have to do anything?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 02:57:25 AM by Margalis »

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Trippy
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Reply #18 on: May 11, 2008, 03:20:36 AM

What gives you the "right" to put out a 10-page all-caps legalese piece of shit saying your software doesn't have to do anything?
They aren't putting guns to people's heads and making them buy the software.
Azazel
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Reply #19 on: May 11, 2008, 03:27:41 AM

I don't feel as strongly about what you said, even though you did slightly imply you'd be willing to pirate it. But again, renting is a business practice to make money--if you don't like the fact that you can't keep videos from NetFlix for good, then you simply don't rent them--you don't freaking steal them.

I'm sure however that some people do rent once and make copies for future use, but doing it doesn't make it right, it just makes you morally corrupt.

The thing is, it's not being presented for (or charged as) a rental. It's being sold (on all levels) as a purchase when in fact it is not.

Let's be blunt though, I didn't slightly imply I'd be willing too pirate it. I pretty blatantly said I'm willing to pirate it if it's still crippleware and it gets to the point where I really want to play it. Bioshock, as pretty as it is, is yet another FPS. Spore and ME both are more compelling. I'm happy to wait a year or two and see if they come to their sense and remove the crippleware aspect once it's no longer a hot property, plenty of other stuff to play in the meantime, but when (if) I do decide I want to play it..


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schild
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Reply #20 on: May 11, 2008, 03:39:57 AM

Uhhh, that's not how it works. It's not about entitlement or 'the "right" to steal.' In this particular case, the people saying they'll pirate it would rather piss the company off with a crime they'll really NEVER get in trouble for. Not buying something is voting with your wallet. Stealing it is making a point.

Is your moral compass so corrupted that you think that actually makes sense?

You just claimed that it's ok for muggers to steal from little old ladies at the ATM to make a point. All they have to do is to wear a mask, and feel as if they are being held down by the establishment (what, I have to WORK for a living? Why--I'll just make a point by stealing--I'll never get caught).

Or, let's turn it around:

--I don't like the way you run f13. In fact, I hate it so much, I'm going to hack the servers and destroy how you make money.

By your argument, it's not a problem at all, since I'm just making a point

Yes, I said it's the same as mugging old ladies at the ATM and hacking my server.

Yea, that's the exact same thing.

Please, don't be a putz.

Quote
I don't feel as strongly about what you said, even though you did slightly imply you'd be willing to pirate it. But again, renting is a business practice to make money--if you don't like the fact that you can't keep videos from NetFlix for good, then you simply don't rent them--you don't freaking steal them.

I'm sure however that some people do rent once and make copies for future use, but doing it doesn't make it right, it just makes you morally corrupt.

This is interesting though. Mostly because renting it and copying it is also theft. And it's a lot more efficient than downloading from newsgroups.

Also, remember, you're on a board where the vast majority of people BUY most, if not all titles, that they have even the tiniest amount of interest in. I, personally, take pride in supporting developers. But when they try to fuck me, I'm not about to blame anyone for them getting fucked back.

This isn't like Crysis where the guy bitched and moaned like a sissy with a skinned knee over the lack of sales claiming pirates fucked him. This is about a company fucking legitimate consumers and letting the pirates off with nothing but a cakewalk of a cracking scheme. And it's not about rationalization or "making things right." It's much more an 'eye for an eye' case. Your average PC user is probably a tiny bit more tech savvy than your average douchecock console junkie. And they readily identify when a company is pulling a dick move. It's another huge case of EAs standard one step forward, two steps back policy.

And they sure are challenging everything this time. With Spore, I don't even know why the copy protection was announced as it streams to the web and could validate every/any time. For Mass Effect though? Fucking inexcusable. INEXCUSABLE. The minor head honchos left there should've thrown a fucking hissy fit. They know better. EA should know better. And there's a lot of situations where I find MORAL problems trying to say pirates are in the wrong for what they're doing.

Also, your stance is completely invalidated by the fact you work for a publisher and developer. This isn't a reflection of you as a person, but a reflection of what you do. Of course you have to say it's amoral. Sure, it's entirely possibly that you're being honest. But since your name is red, saying "piracy is bad" is a laughable situation as you can't say it's "valid in SOME situations because it would end a career.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 03:54:30 AM by schild »
Mosesandstick
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Reply #21 on: May 11, 2008, 03:46:49 AM

I am also waiting (or rather hoping) that soon these companies are going to drop the copyright protection. I've been wanting to (buy) and play Bioshock for a long time :(.

The one thing that I think is most insidious is how it doesn't need to be stated what copy-right protection is used on a game box. Things would be different if consumers knew that the latest copyright protection runs the risk of buggering their computer
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Reply #22 on: May 11, 2008, 03:53:12 AM

Two things:

--it's not the revenue loss I'm ranting about. I'm not even ranting because I'm a game developer.

I'm ranting because you are breaking the law. You are stealing.

What does this say about the rest of your (again, generally speaking here) morality? Why is it ok to break the law because you are making a point? Why is it ok to steal because you want to, or don't like how someone else is doing something with their property?


--If you are willing to steal video games because you feel it's ok (victimless crime, lossless transfer of value, whatever your rationale is), what else are you willing to rationalize? Where's the line?

--Can we steal gas from gas stations because we don't like the oil companies making so much money?
--Can we steal books from the library because we can't be bothered to buy them ourselves?

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schild
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Reply #23 on: May 11, 2008, 03:58:09 AM

I added a lot more response above (Hit post instead of preview the first time, sigh). To add, comparing it to tangible real things is stupid and naive. Downloading something off bittorrent, that someone else cracked and packaged, costs the developer absolutely nothing. Unless:

1. You would've bought it if it wasn't available via torrent.
2. You're a total dickhead who tries to get tech support when running a cracked .exe.

And both points are completely unprovable.

But sure, go steal something tangible like gas or a book. And then say to the cops, "What's happening here? I used videogame piracy logic to do this. Its totally legit and on the up and up.
Stephen Zepp
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Reply #24 on: May 11, 2008, 03:59:20 AM

Quote
If you don't agree, don't buy it--but this sense of entitlement that gives the gaming world the impetus to steal what they don't want to pay for because it's software is fucking things up for everyone--developers and gamers.

You are confusing a bunch of disparate groups:

1. People who can't afford to pay. (For high-end things like say Maya, Photoshop, etc)
2. People who pirate as a demo or pirate something they don't particularly care for and would never pay for anyway.
3. People who refuse to pay for rental crippleware.
4. People who pirate whatever because they are cheap bastards.

Group 1 and 2 don't result in any lost revenue. Group 4 results in major lost revenue. Group 3 results in lost revenue but that's totally within your control as a developer.

Edit: And as Tebonas points out, some of these EULA's are so totally absurd they are immoral if not criminal. According to most EULA's the software doesn't have to do a damn thing and can destroy your computer if it wants. If companies are going to fuck over consumers it's hard to feel too terrible when consumers fuck them right back.

What gives you the "right" to put out a 10-page all-caps legalese piece of shit saying your software doesn't have to do anything?

I'm not confusing anything--but you are completely fucked in the head if you think any of what you wrote matters at all.

1) So that means that homeless people can go ahead and steal food, clothing, and camp in your living room because they can't afford to pay?
2) Ahh--the "it's not important enough to me to respect the law" argument. I see what you did there.
3) And here we have the "it's not good enough to pay for, but it's good enough to steal" argument.
4) Anarchy ftw?

What scares me more than anything else in the rationalizations you and others are giving is the mentality that "oh, that doesn't apply to me entitlement implied in the rationalizations. Once you've crossed that line, there is no stopping you. Once you, as a population group have that concept embedded in your rationalization process, anything goes, given enough time.

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Stephen Zepp
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Reply #25 on: May 11, 2008, 04:03:18 AM

I added a lot more response above (Hit post instead of preview the first time, sigh). To add, comparing it to tangible real things is stupid and naive. Downloading something off bittorrent, that someone else cracked and packaged, costs the developer absolutely nothing. Unless:

1. You would've bought it if it wasn't available via torrent.
2. You're a total dickhead who tries to get tech support when running a cracked .exe.

And both points are completely unprovable.

But sure, go steal something tangible like gas or a book. And then say to the cops, "What's happening here? I used videogame piracy logic to do this. Its totally legit and on the up and up.

You are so ass backwards in your rationale here it's petrifying--especially since you probably represent a large portion of your generation when it comes to these moral and ethical questions.

Here is the logical breakdown of what you are saying:

It's not a crime if I'm not caught.
Information has no value, since it can be duplicated/replicated with little effort. In other words, Intellectual Property does not exist.

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SnakeCharmer
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Reply #26 on: May 11, 2008, 04:05:57 AM

I'm still at a loss to understand how consumers are getting bent over by this.

And I don't see the correlation that antipiracy software means you don't own something.  It's just making sure that some identifier in the game hasn't been registered before, and if it has, to whom.  Internet, and broadband, is widespread.  Any gamer is going to have it.

I figure the law is a bit murky on the subject of data (CmdrSlack?  Chime in?), or even under what category it falls into (intellectual property?).  Nevertheless, theft is theft.  Making some sort of consumer statement doesn't make it any less so.  It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have bought it in the first place - that's just revenue loss argument.
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Reply #27 on: May 11, 2008, 04:07:16 AM


Also, your stance is completely invalidated by the fact you work for a publisher and developer. This isn't a reflection of you as a person, but a reflection of what you do. Of course you have to say it's amoral. Sure, it's entirely possibly that you're being honest. But since your name is red, saying "piracy is bad" is a laughable situation as you can't say it's "valid in SOME situations because it would end a career.

I don't make one freaking cent from any games, or software, that my company sells, personally. I don't get royalties, I don't get profit sharing (not yet at least, no one in our company does directly).

As I mentioned, my stance on this has nothing to do with actually being a game developer--what causes me to see red when I see people blithely stating they will steal what they don't want to pay for is what it logically means for our culture in 30 years, when those same people (as a class) are going to be lawmakers, senators, presidents, and cops.

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Reply #28 on: May 11, 2008, 04:08:22 AM

I'm still at a loss to understand how consumers are getting bent over by this.

And I don't see the correlation that antipiracy software means you don't own something.  It's just making sure that some identifier in the game hasn't been registered before, and if it has, to whom.  Internet, and broadband, is widespread.  Any gamer is going to have it.

I figure the law is a bit murky on the subject of data (CmdrSlack?  Chime in?), or even under what category it falls into (intellectual property?).  Nevertheless, theft is theft.  Making some sort of consumer statement doesn't make it any less so.  It doesn't matter if they wouldn't have bought it in the first place - that's just revenue loss argument.

Q(and colored)FT.

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Mosesandstick
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Reply #29 on: May 11, 2008, 04:16:34 AM

As I mentioned, my stance on this has nothing to do with actually being a game developer--what causes me to see red when I see people blithely stating they will steal what they don't want to pay for is what it logically means for our culture in 30 years, when those same people (as a class) are going to be lawmakers, senators, presidents, and cops.

I think this is one point in particular that you are completely wrong about. There are definitely people who pirate because they don't want to pay and everyone here agrees that is completely immoral.

The piracy that people are discussing is not because people want to steal, its because they are recieving a superior product. A pirated game without all that copyright protection shit is far superior to the legit goods that companies like EA want to dump on consumers.

We are talking about people who want to do the right thing being punished for doing so.
SnakeCharmer
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Reply #30 on: May 11, 2008, 04:18:50 AM

I'm curious, Schild...

Let's take one of the Sigil interviews here back after they crashed and burned.  What if someone came in, copied/pasted your entire interview with McQuaid on their MMO / gaming website and claimed it as their own.  There doesn't even have to be money involved (say, membership fees).

It's not necessarily about taking credit, in as much as they couldn't be arsed to conduct their own interview with him.

Wouldn't you be a mighty bit pissed?


We are talking about people who want to do the right thing being punished for doing so.

How is anyone buying software with antipiracy measures being punished?  10-30 seconds taken out of their day to make sure their copy is legit?
Nerf
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Reply #31 on: May 11, 2008, 04:20:11 AM

Zepp, the point is that this bullshit is e-pissing on our shoes and telling us it's raining.  If they're going to rent the games to us, then fucking say you're renting them, but if I shell out $50 to purchase a game, only to discover that I don't really own as it as I have all of these bullshit hoops to jump through, I'm going to be upset.

When my options are either
a) Don't play the game or
b) Pirate the game and completely bypass all of their bullshit

I'm going to choose b, every fucking time.

Equating it to robbing a little old lady at the ATM, or homeless people stealing food and shelter is fucking retarded, because they took somthing tangible, they deprived the owner of being able to sell that product to someone who was willing and able to pay for it.

The key here is deprivation and a willing and able customer, if I'm not depriving you of anything, and was not a willing and able customer, what have you lost? Nothing.

However, had the company not put in bullshit "you don't own this" code into their game, I *would* have been both willing and able to buy it, so they have deprived themselves of that revenue.

It should be a clear choice for developers, most of the people who are going to pirate the game if there is no DRM are those that are not willing or able to purchase it, they're not losing anything when someone pirates it.

However, when they add in DRM that is comically easy to crack, yet a pain in the ass for a legit customer, they have lost the legit customer that is no longer willing and able to put up with aforementioned pains in the ass.

Edit:  Snakechamer, in your scenario, the pirate would be depriving Schild of traffic, so they aren't /just/ stealing his IP, they're stealing possible traffic.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 04:22:19 AM by Nerf »
SnakeCharmer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3807


Reply #32 on: May 11, 2008, 04:27:18 AM

Equating it to robbing a little old lady at the ATM, or homeless people stealing food and shelter is fucking retarded, because they took somthing tangible, they deprived the owner of being able to sell that product to someone who was willing and able to pay for it.

So, let me see here....

If I hack into your bank, and (digitally) transfer all your money to my account, it's not stealing since I didn't take the actual physical dollars from it?

Gotcha.

Quote
Edit:  Snakechamer, in your scenario, the pirate would be depriving Schild of traffic, so they aren't /just/ stealing his IP, they're stealing possible traffic.

How is traffic considered tangible?
Edit:  Also, pirating the game (IP?), isn't theft?  What makes the theft of Schilds story/traffic/IP any more THEFT!!! than piracy?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 04:32:03 AM by SnakeCharmer »
Mosesandstick
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2349


Reply #33 on: May 11, 2008, 04:30:30 AM

A lot of copyright software will mess around with things you have on your computer. Just wiki securom or starforce and you'll get a quick intro to the kind of shite they do to your computer.

Copyright protection has generally always been designed to somehow inconvenience the legit user, from having to read something obtuse in a manual, having a disc in your drive and now to having a near-permanent internet connection.

I grew up in South East Asia and am probably more exposed to piracy than nearly everyone on this board. Piracy has always been very convenient and the response of the gaming industry has been to make legit games more inconvenient.

One of the key differences now is that by having the mandatory checks you stop 'owning' the game and are only 'renting' it. The legailty of this is something I know nothing about, but it very clearly screws the users over. This kind of problem will always be exacerbated in places where there is no renting culture of games. If people can't properly buy games they are going to be definitely feel tentative about renting it for the full price of a game.
Azazel
Contributor
Posts: 7732


Reply #34 on: May 11, 2008, 04:31:57 AM

I'm still at a loss to understand how consumers are getting bent over by this.

How is anyone buying software with antipiracy measures being punished?  10-30 seconds taken out of their day to make sure their copy is legit?


Having a hard-coded number of lifetime installs.

After that, contact EA directly and be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. You deal with fuckwits and beaurocracy. How well do you think EA will handle that?

I'm not super-keen on the online validation-a-go-go aspect, but I can live with that in it's muted form.



what causes me to see red when I see people blithely stating they will steal what they don't want to pay for is what it logically means for our culture in 30 years, when those same people (as a class) are going to be lawmakers, senators, presidents, and cops.

I do want to pay for it though. I really do. I just don't want to have software I pay for crippled by crippleware that appears to be set up to ensure that I won't be able to play the software I legitimately purchase several years down the track.
Several years ago, I knew a guy (brother in law of a high school friend) who sold pirated PS1 software. His regular customers included a couple of cops. Oh, also, corrupt politicians, cops, lawmakers, presidents have been around longer than any of us here have been alive, so there's no worries there for our cultures in 30 years at least.  awesome, for real


Oh yeah, I for one bought Crysis. Haven't installed it yet, may not even get around to playing it for months or longer. But I bought it. If it had fucked-up protection, I wouldn't have. Oh, and Titan Quest. I've got 3 copies of here, in fact.


The thing that comes to my mind personally on this whole thing, is that I feel that EA might have concocted the whole "phone home" protection scheme knowing that there'd be a huge outcry, so then they could "tone it down" to the 4 installs EVAR version and come off (to the mass of morons) like they're being reasonable and throwing us a bone.  

Tinfoil Hat? Maybe, but that's how a ton of negotiation is done in the real world...




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