Council of Stellar Management Voting Active

[Amarr HM]

?

[Hoax]

I was going to post a bunch of text about Goonswarm but honestly, who fucking cares.     I hope Jade gets they kicked off the CSM.

[Calantus]

Hoax, do you know anything about Something Awful gaming groups other than running into them in EVE?

I ask because while goons are always "fuck pubbies" in every game they play, and love to goof off and grief/scam, they always know their shit and help eachother out. I guarantee that there's a large number of goons that know far more about the game than anyone ever should and care about its health more than they'll let on.

[tazelbain]

If the goons hadn't tried to "ruin" the game, I never would have tried EvE.  I wish them the best of luck.

EDIT: And I not even the griefer type, just think they add coloor to an otherwise drab universe.

[Simond]

I was going to post a bunch of text about Goonswarm but honestly, who fucking cares.     I hope Jade gets they kicked off the CSM.

It's far more likely that Jade quits, IMO. Bane, Darius and the CVA bloke understand 0.0 warfare and want to fix the various issues with it, the various carebears want to improve Empire, but Jade wants to smash EVE into little pieces so that everybody plays the 'correct' way (read: How Jade wants to play)...and I suspect CCP will ignore pretty much everything he personally proposes for that reason.

[Endie]

Goons haven't had the "ruin eve" thing going on (other than for trolling purposes) since the Mittani went postal. Sesfan was pretty clear then that CCP had admitted their fuckups, and other than the cyno-jammer HP thing, most patches have been pretty beneficial to us, on the whole.

[Hoax]

Actually fuck it.

[ajax34i]

I don't really know who started it and who's keeping it going, but the fighting between CSM reps is comedy gold and IMO SO representative of the type of community EVE has.  I expect the whole thing to fail for two reasons: 

1.  11% voters proved that not many care, and that's gotta be disappointing to CCP, who I imagine are looking to make big publicity out of this thing.

2.  The CSM reps flaming each other ... in a way, that's typical of a politics forum (we have one here, discussions there are much more heated and ... hostile), but CCP has to moderate theirs because it's *trumpets* THE CSM */end trumpets* and eventually it will require too much moderation effort to keep it clean and be able to get any sort of PR out of it.  Or a good signal/noise ratio, which was the original purpose.

One way they could save it - make it seem more useful and stop the fighting - would be for CCP to reassess their stance on how many votes a topic needs to get to be pushed through regardless of what the CSM Reps want.  Cause, right now, the only issues that will be on the agenda will be each rep's pet issues; there's no way any topic will gather 11,000 support votes if only 26,000 players voted in the elections.  I'm looking at the threads out there, and they have, what, 20-40 support votes, each?  Heh.

They need to let us put issues on the agenda much more easily, so that regardless of what Jade, the Goons, or anyone else wants, the agenda gets filled with a zillion issues, thereby drowning out Jade's, the Goons', and every other rep's.

[bhodi]

Woah, let's get this back on track: Continuing to make fun of Jade.

This is what he does when he's not fencing.

[Endie]

Woah, let's get this back on track: Continuing to make fun of Jade.

This is what he does when he's not fencing.

Um, I think I speak on behalf of a great many people on these boards when I say that making fun of people who play PnP RPGs is not a route we want to go down 

By all that is holy, though, who writes an adventure in that much detail?!?  It's like a Berlin Wall of words :jade:  If we can deal with it on its own merits, it is an awful, awful adventure: massively linear, constrained and scripted, and absolutely doomed either to leave the DM railroading the players until they start sabotaging stuff on purpose or forcing him to throw away the adventure and wing it.  Someone is (as if we didn't know this) a bad writer disguising it as a module.

Edit: spellink

[JoeTF]

BTW, I want photomugs of two goon CSM members.

[Endie]

BTW, I want photomugs of two goon CSM members.

I'm pretty sure that I've seen pictures of Darius already, and that he's depressingly normal, but we can see what we can dig up.  On a law of goon averages, therefore, Bane will be nearly as fat as Lady Scarlet.

Edit:What a happy chap he is.

[Endie]

Woah, let's get this back on track: Continuing to make fun of Jade.

This is what he does when he's not fencing.

Um, I think I speak on behalf of a great many people on these boards when I say that making fun of people who play PnP RPGs is not a route we want to go down 

By all that is holy, though, who writes an adventure in that much detail?!?  It's like a Berlin Wall of words :jade:  If we can deal with it on its own merits, it is an awful, awful adventure: massively linear, constrained and scripted, and absolutely doomed either to leave the DM railroading the players until they start sabotaging stuff on purpose or forcing him to throw away the adventure and wing it.  Someone is (as if we didn't know this) a bad writer disuising it as a module.

Aha!  He had changed the link by then.

This is what even Jade was ashamed of...

Are you a lady of taste and refined sensuality? A wild amazon of fleeting moods and electric passions? A diva or temptress, a sinner or a saint? "La Maison" has openings for all, and we welcome applications from appropriately talented would-be hostesses from around the Eve star cluster

More like "are you a geek who wants to cyber, one-handed, with other geeks in the absence of genuine females in your life?"

[Phildo]

My character is an Intaki... this bears investigating.   

[Gets]

I've read about cybersex in EVE in exchange for ISK a long while back on Kotaku. The assumption that they were likely men was less surprising than the fact that there was such a service available. Wonder how the Amarr roleplay code stands on this both IC and OOC. I bet "kill it with lasers" for both occasions 

I prefer listening to podcasts while I'm warping from place to place, but whatever rocks your spaceboat. Now, 100mil ISK for the one who finds out which of the candidates rubs against small boys on the bus.

The voting turnout was disappointingly low, but what can you do. At least it says something. When the elections were announced it was assumed that the 80% Empire pubbie population would determine the real outcome of the voting. I'm guessing the actual fact is when you never set foot outside Empire you don't really have a reason to care and be interested. Then again I assume everyone who got elected are all in some degree EVE fanatics and not just people who really wanted to go to Iceland but didn't have the money. Which of the candidates will get their opinions replied with the international middle-finger from CCP will determine the worth of this council. They won't have the power to audit anyway, I'm sure, since they are customers representing customers. I'm not that big of a political analyst to assume where things will go from here, but Mature Men Online Roleplaying Girls included it's still an interesting thing to observe.

[bhodi]

This is as good a thread as any. I'm reposting this little bit of awesomeness both because of the entertaining burn and because it gives you an idea of what goons really think about the CAOD olympics and, by the transitive property, the council itself.

Okay, shinori, I'm probably the most prolific eve-o poster on goonfleet.com right now so I'm going to break this shit down for you.

CAOD is retarded. Plain old retarded. Retards post retarded threads there for the perusal of other retards, who gobble it up as retards might a bowl of their favorite brand of macaroni and cheese prepared especially for them.

Now, although it is possible to 'remain above' its retardation, like Aragorn staying above the mob in Eastern Promises even while in the middle of it, most goons are incapable of doing this because they are dumb. A good example of this is you, shinori chan. You swim in the same circles as our friends in smash and roadkill, you post in their language, in short you are one of them. This pains us, Shinori, because all evidence to the contrary we, meaning goonfleet, seem to have decided to keep believing in an alliance without sponsorees or ignes. So just as the soviets silenced Bulgakov to preserve the false idol of soviet success, so to must we silence you. Or ban you, which I suppose would be the internet equivalent of a mock trial and blindfold. Whatever works.

You disagree with this, apparently. I do not know how you can but you do. You insist that you are not a retard, despite the fact that your name has become goonfleet shorthand for intellectually handicapped, and rather are engaged in some high level satire that is lost on everyone save for perhaps yorda, who is right there in the trenches with you. There are several possible explanations for this:

Number one you are a bob spy, and, having grown tired of observing titan launches in a cov-ops or stealing theta squad ravens out of un-passworded pos', you have decided to see if it is possible to be more universally hated than deadtitan. Number two for as long as you can remember your mother has bounced between abusive boyfriends who, having never wanted to be fathers, were tragically incapable of replicating the smiling avatars of fatherhood all of your classmates seemed to have waiting for them after school. If this is the case then I am sorry for what I have said and hope you do not try to kill yourself, God loves all of his children.

But the far more likely number three is that you are just some anonymous magicless britannian who watched a stalhregen video while alt tabbed, mining scordite for whatever miserable empire corp you crawled out of, and dropped 10 bux on an sa account four minutes later, not knowing how you would make it through those 3 long, painful months between you and an auth thread.

It is important to here, before I procede to my conclusion, take an aside as I now want to address what is sure to be your reaction to my post: A poorly spelled two line celebration of the negative attention I have lavished on you through this post, accompanied by between 2 and 4 superflorous smilies. Know then that this post is not just for you, Shinori chan, but everyone like you. Everyone of your racial sub-type. The vvarlords, the yordas, the equins, the joker devilles, the Bobby Seales and the justicewinzs. For far too long have your sort thrived within space gbs, the warroom and rho squad, but I have sour news for you: RFK has been murdered, the great society lies in negro fired ruins and Nixon / Agnew are on the ticket. Goonfleet has voted, and your brand of progress is on the way out. Even Scakov, long a prominent voice of hurf blurfdom and the need to "win," has expressed his hatred of your sort. A comet courses through the sky.

In conclusion, look at that fukkin post. Get out and never come back. McCain 08. Why you throw chip.

[Jade Constantine]

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[Endie]

Edit On third thoughts, never mind.

[Sparky]

Jade you roleplay a space whore - in space.

[MahrinSkel]

Everybody play nice now....

Jade, you want to talk about the dynamics and philosophy of player government, you could find much worse places to do it.  You want to continue the Council CAOD-style wrangling in these forums, I'm going to have to hurt you.

--Dave

[Sparky]

It's an ill-conceived idea anyway.  People lose enough of their stuff being on the wrong end of a failure cascade.  If you have "Lose a city in Shadowbane" type penalty then I could see large numbers quitting outright and even more swearing off the idea of even venturing out of empire.

[ajax34i]

2. Strange inability to understand that Eve's current biggest problem is that the death-penalty/loss-penalty/cost of warfare model has gone wrong in 0.0 war. Put simply the strong in Eve stay strong, because the wars that should be heinously expensive and unbearably costly are not. What should be a razed and burning landscape of torched cities and smoldering wrecks and capital ship graveyards just turns into an endless game of capture-the-flag outpost whack-a-mole where nobody really loses anything significant against the passive and enduring income of the participants in serious 0.0 warfare. This in turn leads to arms race without end or check where all 0.0 powers stock-pile capital ships and super-capital ships and strangely enough the Goons are at the forefront of current whining that super-capitals are too powerful without actually realizing that its their own defense of consequence-free space-holding which drives the economies required to spam super-capitals (but thats another story.)

Your posts are long because you do not pay attention to your audience.  In this case, you are on a sub-forum dedicated to the game, with stickies at the top explaining all the acronyms.  So you could have cut out the three opening paragraphs, and compressed a few sentences here and there in the rest of your post, too, because we know much about EVE and what Outposts are.

In any case, what you are proposing will result even more in "the strong stay strong".  Your "horribly expensive wars" are only so for the losing side.  Where is the expense for the winners?  Come in with overwhelming force, raze everything to the ground, and the victim can never recover.  You are proposing the equivalent of an increase in the death penalty, and are arguing that this will make fighting more fun, and that more people will fight.

Right.

EDIT:  Besides, it's between you and CCP now.  I am waiting to see what they do when:

1.  None of the issues that the boards have been screaming about for the last 6 months get brought up, because the biggest thread only has 150 support votes and isn't likely to get much more.

2.  The various CSM reps bring up their own pet issues, and you bring up yours, and CCP realizes that most of you are proposing to change the balance of some part of the game drastically.

[Yoru]

I think the word people are groping for in response to War And Peace up there is "Shadowbane".

Also, welcome. Perhaps you'd like to browse a bit before assuming overmuch about the audience here.

[Jade Constantine]

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[Jade Constantine]

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[Megrim]

Hey, hey, hey, guys. Guys. Seriously, guys. Can we, can we like, get like, an official rank in BAT, which is like "Psychosexual Battlefield Therapist".






srsly

[Jade Constantine]

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[Jade Constantine]

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[Jade Constantine]

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[Sparky]

It's an ill-conceived idea anyway.  People lose enough of their stuff being on the wrong end of a failure cascade.  If you have "Lose a city in Shadowbane" type penalty then I could see large numbers quitting outright and even more swearing off the idea of even venturing out of empire.

I'd advise you to go and have a read of the discussion on the subject here:

http://www.eve-chatsubo.com/viewtopic.php?t=4050

It comes to the conclusion that destructible outposts that end up with derelicts without services but a wrecked core that would allow hanger access for people with stuff there would be a workable compromise.

As for shadowbane comparisons - its not quite pertinent, Eve has empire and nullsec stations controlled by npc factions which are not destroyable.

Player built outposts are not essential for gameplay, they are an advantage to the builder sure, but they don't prevent gameplay or deny the game to people if they were lost. They are part of the risk/reward equation and a way to increase profits/tactical advantage and should be open to destruction. Put it this way, If I build a Titan it has an advantage (jump bridging large fleets and bypassing conventional gates) that titan costs much more than an outpost and is completely destructible in fleet fights if things go wrong.

To the mind of many Outposts are simply and investment of isk to gain an advantage over those who restrict their endeavor to npc stations - thats fine, but its not fine if they are essentially becoming invulnerable advantages that can never be cleared from the 0.0 landscape. Eve is about risk. Put a ship into space you are taking a risk. Its not unreasonable to suggest that player built outposts are also at risk since they bring significant reward while they are protected and functional.
 

Sorry but I just get a bunch of gibberish from that link; looks like an executable viewed in wordpad.  Must be temporarily broken.

You don't seem to appreciate player outposts are already a risk.  You risk being locked out of your assets, risk a load of POSes and most importantly risk your alliance going to pieces when they get kicked out.  There's certainly risk even if some people might think it's not risky enough.  However if you forever blow up all of AverageGrunt#231344's stuff with no hope of recovery then it's more than likely he'll simply say "fuck it" and quit the game.  This has been amply demonstrated in previous failed PVP games.

I want people to PVP and experience everything 0.0 has to offer.  Your idea is just too harsh and will chase people out of the game or make them way too risk averse to even try.

If you think sov warefare is too cheap then how about increasing the cost of POSes again or something else that won't wipe out your average alliance grunt if they lose bad?

edit: nevermind that link just hates Opera.  Loads up fine in IE

[Jade Constantine]

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[Sparky]

In that case if players could get their assets out without too much difficulty and there was a good deal more NPC 0.0 for baby alliances to grow up in (I think they should add that in any case but that's another discussion) then I could see your idea working.  I'll have to think on the implications some more though.

[Amarr HM]

I agree with the destructible outpost they need to be defendable and in ways that exciting and not more blob fleet lag. Also a way for pilots to clear their stuff out is imperative. Players on board during destruction also dying would also be interesting especially if "ambulation" would allow you to look out into space from a watchtower or something to that effect. Outposts should also be given pretty good defenses I would like to hear what CCP think of this idea (any links).

Also Jita Park top threads are
Jade Constantine : Your views on ownership of PvP loot and salvage? and some other one about salvage ownership,  is CCP only allowing you to discuss menial subjects not that I'm expecting monumental changes but why aren't what's discussed here top discussions in Jita Park?

[Jade Constantine]

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[TripleDES]

I could tell that this transvestite was a CAOD faggot by the sudden emergence of walls of text, before even looking at the username. And I didn't even play or browse the damn forums for over a year.