Alliance suck at PvP in WoW, news at 11

[sinij]

I came across interesting "study", it appears that pretty races in World of Warcraft (Alliance) tend to be younger, played by females a lot more and suck at coordinated PvP. Not sure how credible this study is, but it sounds interesting.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5784277309&sid=1

   We recently did a study on World of Warcraft players. The focus of the study was PvP. We were privately funded by an “industry insider” that does market research for gaming companies. The study may be published when both studies are complete. I am permitted to release some of the results of the study here.

The studies began in February 2007, and ran through February 2008. Over 1800 Horde players were interviewed. Over 2100 Alliance players were involved. The focus of the PvP study was the player mindset in PvP, and to understand some of the disparity in the battlegrounds. Why does Alliance still, overall, dominate Alterac Valley? Why does Horde dominate the other three battlegrounds? We were after 1000 players on each side to complete the study. The study was done in San Francisco, Phoenix, and New York. Players were observed in groups of 10 for each faction at a time over a 3 month period.

The rest of the data was from interviews. Perhaps in a subsequent post I’ll post some of the results from the interviews.

The criteria were simple:

• The character’s must be level 70, and have at least 10 days played at 70
• The player must be 18 years or older (they had to be able to sign releases)
• The player cannot have any arena gear (except season 1 gear)
• The player has to be the original owner of the character

Some interesting stats during our player finding efforts (which took 6 months):

• Horde average age was 24
• Alliance average age was 17
• Very few Horde don’t have any arena gear (12%)
• Quite a few Alliance don’t have any arena gear (31%)
• 1 in 8 Alliance players are female
• 1 in 17 Horde players are female
• 87% of Horde and 74% of Alliance players over 18 were high-school graduates
• 78% of Horde and 54% of Alliance played their true gender
• We had to interview over 300 more Alliance players in order to find enough that were 18 or older.

Gear stats:

• Horde’s average “Resilience” was 202, among the 1000 participants
• Alliance’s average “Resilience” was 87, among the 1000
• Average +Healing for healers was 1013 for Alliance, and 944 for Horde
• With arena gear factored in (all 1800 Horde, and all 2100 Alliance), average “Resilience” was 277 for Horde, and 117 for Alliance.
• Even on PvP gear, Alliance filled gem slots more suited to PvE


What we found:

In all four battlegrounds, the Horde nearly always killed healers, or at least attacked them. Horde used crowd control techniques 73% of the time when it was feasible. Alliance only used these techniques 44% of the time. Alliance healers healed far more effectively, ironically, than Horde healers. But, given the disparity in gear, they’d have to in order to compensate. Horde fiercely guarded objectives 85% of the time, leaving 2 to 3 players to guard each objective. Alliance only guarded objectives 67% of the time, and generally only 1 or 2 players guarded. The Horde defenders tended to be complementary classes (i.e. Healer + Crowd Control + DPS). Alliance was completely unpredictable.

[Calandryll]

I love data like this, but I am confused as to how to reconcile these two factors:

The player must be 18 years or older (they had to be able to sign releases)

and

Alliance average age was 17


If everyone in the survey had to be over 18, how was the average age only 17? Or did only part of the study have that requirement?

[Triforcer]

It is SO satisfying to have all my beliefs about the Alliance confirmed in one fell swoop.   

[sinij]

I love data like this, but I am confused as to how to reconcile these two factors:

The player must be 18 years or older (they had to be able to sign releases)

and

Alliance average age was 17


If everyone in the survey had to be over 18, how was the average age only 17? Or did only part of the study have that requirement?

Further down in original post (one on WoW message board) it was explained that they asked age first, but only allowed participation for people 18+. That is if you are 12, your age gets recorded but you don't get to participate.

[Calandryll]

I love data like this, but I am confused as to how to reconcile these two factors:

The player must be 18 years or older (they had to be able to sign releases)

and

Alliance average age was 17


If everyone in the survey had to be over 18, how was the average age only 17? Or did only part of the study have that requirement?

Further down in original post (one on WoW message board) it was explained that they asked age first, but only allowed participation for people 18+. That is if you are 12, your age gets recorded but you don't get to participate.

Ah ok, well that makes a lot more sense. That's what I get for skimming. :)

[Trouble]

I predict fake.

[sinij]

I predict fake.

Too much effort and too elaborate to be fake.

[Sairon]

It might be fake, or at least as he says, biased. However, I'm not surprised of the data, I think choosing "the good guys" or "the bad guys" in some way reflects a mindset. I know that the Horde lore wise isn't the bad guys, but for the average joe they most likely are.

[Frax]

I predict fake.

Too much effort and too elaborate to be fake.

Lack of imagination/effort/elaboration hasn't stopped fake 'patch notes' from appearly since the early EQ days. Some of them were often better than the actual patch notes!

[WayAbvPar]

It is SO satisfying to have all my beliefs about the Alliance confirmed in one fell swoop.   

Heh. I have agreed with you twice in one day...the fourth horseman rides!

From my experiences, if the Horde used any sort of tactics/coordination, they rolled the Alliance (whether they were coordinated or not).

[Xanthippe]

I wouldn't be at all surprised that women play Alliance in larger numbers than play Horde.  Alliance toons are prettier.

[Tarami]

In all four battlegrounds, the Horde nearly always killed healers, or at least attacked them. Horde used crowd control techniques 73% of the time when it was feasible. Alliance only used these techniques 44% of the time. Alliance healers healed far more effectively, ironically, than Horde healers. But, given the disparity in gear, they’d have to in order to compensate. Horde fiercely guarded objectives 85% of the time, leaving 2 to 3 players to guard each objective. Alliance only guarded objectives 67% of the time, and generally only 1 or 2 players guarded. The Horde defenders tended to be complementary classes (i.e. Healer + Crowd Control + DPS). Alliance was completely unpredictable.

73% of the time when it was feasible (according to whom)? Guarded 85% of the time? I don't know what methods they'd need to use to get those statistics with any form of accuracy. I call bullshit.

In addition, doing a survey over six months for a level cap that has only been available for 14 months seems like an extremely questionable metric, especially considering the requirement of 240 hours played. That's 1 hour, 20 minutes on average per day for six months just -at- 70. The numbers will have skewed hugely just in the time it took to do the survey.

[Hutch]

I predict fake.

Too much effort and too elaborate to be fake.

Fake. There's no more effort required to write that post than to come up with an entertaining story about a well-known subject. There's some skill involved, sure, but you don't have to do research to come up with a bunch of numbers.

This study confirms all of the conspiracy-theory stereotypes of BG pvp.

Horde wins 88% of WSG? That's almost 9 out of 10. Not on my battlegroup.

76% Horde dominance of EotS is also difficult to believe.

Where are the counts of how many instances of each BG they observed?

Also,

At the start of the study, an average of 12 Horde were “AFK” in their starting cave. The ones that AFKd in the cave were the youngest of the horde players (average 19 years old)

Please. How did they come up with that? Track each afk'er back to their home server and ask them for details? Did they make the AFK'ers sign the release form first?

This seems like an awful lot of work went into it. Did anyone get paid to do this "study"?

[Merusk]

It might be fake, or at least as he says, biased. However, I'm not surprised of the data, I think choosing "the good guys" or "the bad guys" in some way reflects a mindset. I know that the Horde lore wise isn't the bad guys, but for the average joe they most likely are.

Hades (waylander) had a nice article on this over on Guild Cafe.  I tend to agree with the whole mindset thing as well.

Ed: As to the stats in the study.

http://www.warcraftrealms.com/bg_list.php?PHPSESSID=1d700a67dab870a0a7eafe35b9f97fc7&id=0&lb=7

Disagrees on EoTS alone.  The problem there being, I think that's derived from a mod.

[Venkman]

Using anecdotes "proof" to refute what you think of as either anecdote or false is, err, eh you get it.

There's been a longstanding belief that Alliance sucks at PvP because their PvE content was better. This is corrollary to the belief that all EQ1 players went Alliance because they wanted RP/RPG in PvE and came trained for raids. Meanwhile most Battle.net players were said to have gone Horde because it was cool/antiestablishment, bringing with them strong desire fo PvP.

That whole paragraph is as believable as the study and the anecdotes that dispute it 

[Arrrgh]

I love data like this, but I am confused as to how to reconcile these two factors:

The player must be 18 years or older (they had to be able to sign releases)

and

Alliance average age was 17


If everyone in the survey had to be over 18, how was the average age only 17? Or did only part of the study have that requirement?

Further down in original post (one on WoW message board) it was explained that they asked age first, but only allowed participation for people 18+. That is if you are 12, your age gets recorded but you don't get to participate.

If they ask age and then stop if the person is under 18 how do they know if the under 18 is alliance or horde?

[Jayce]

I predict fake.

Too much effort and too elaborate to be fake.

You seriously underestimate the power of bored teenagers.

Their metrics are all over the place (percents in one place and "generally 1 or 2" in another).  Why those cities?  Did they find WoW players in game and go to their houses?  Why not do the whole thing in-game, with a custom mod or something? 

[UnSub]

It's nice data, but it's just the demographics / behaviour. My question is: what is the objective of the study? Why compare PvP behaviours of Alliance vs Horde players?

I didn't click the link, so my apologies if this is covered there.

[Threash]

Its fake.  BGs are not anywhere near that loopsided.

[KyanMehwulfe]

So someone who used to work for SOE (but is now "bitter about Luclin"), who's "insane" and has an "agenda" ("he hates AV"), funds a study in which he flies 28 university students from Phoenix to San Francisco and New York over a one year period, where they interview and record two-fucking-thousand WoW gamers (whom they attracted by handing out fliers at game stores; yet no one else fucking heard about it) at a presumably rented location (cha-ching ad naseum), and then has this elaborately funded study--fueled by an insane, hateful agenda against Alterac Valley--debut on the cesspit known as the general WoW forums with zero actual evidence and the increasingly juvenile commentary (laden with the exponential use of the "he's rich/he's insane" copout) by his I-think-you're-insane and I-leak-your-professional-trashtalk friend?

You've got to be fucking kidding me?

[Venkman]

Whoa. Where'd everything before "I-think-you're-insane and I-leak-your-professional-trashtalk friend" come from? You speak truth?

Why the heck would someone fund what they could get from WarcraftRealms for free with some addon manipulation?

If this is true, it at least sounds more quantitative than the violence and video game studies of late 

[Hutch]

Whoa. Where'd everything before "I-think-you're-insane and I-leak-your-professional-trashtalk friend" come from? You speak truth?

Why the heck would someone fund what they could get from WarcraftRealms for free with some addon manipulation?

If this is true, it at least sounds more quantitative than the violence and video game studies of late 

It's "truth" the same way the OP is truth, i.e. it's the same poster making the claims about having an insane boss who used to work for SOE. You'd have to read pretty much the entire thread to learn this.

Damn, I just gave away that I read the thread, didn't I 

[tasmia]

So someone who used to work for SOE (but is now "bitter about Luclin"), who's "insane" and has an "agenda" ("he hates AV"), funds a study in which he flies 28 university students from Phoenix to San Francisco and New York over a one year period, where they interview and record two-fucking-thousand WoW gamers (whom they attracted by handing out fliers at game stores; yet no one else fucking heard about it) at a presumably rented location (cha-ching ad naseum), and then has this elaborately funded study--fueled by an insane, hateful agenda against Alterac Valley--debut on the cesspit known as the general WoW forums with zero actual evidence and the increasingly juvenile commentary (laden with the exponential use of the "he's rich/he's insane" copout) by his I-think-you're-insane and I-leak-your-professional-trashtalk friend?

[Tarami]

Using anecdotes "proof" to refute what you think of as either anecdote or false is, err, eh you get it.

I believe this is "proof" enough;

• Horde’s average “Resilience” was 202, among the 1000 participants
...
• With arena gear factored in (all 1800 Horde, and all 2100 Alliance), average “Resilience” was 277 for Horde, and 117 for Alliance.

So the last 800 Horde raised average resilience by 75, which means (<sound of number juggling>) the 800 disqualified Horde AVERAGED 370.75 resilience;

(1000 * 202 + 800 * 370.75) / 1800 = 277

A disparity of nearly 170 resilience between age groups? I think not.

Edit; I realise once posted (why does it always happen in that order? Why never the other way around?) that "they" may not have included Arena gear in the first metric, but then again, that speaks of the irrelevance of the survey. The metrics aren't even comparable to one another.

[Zetor]

Fake, and I've seen more elaborate troll posts on the WOW forums to begin with, so it's not even a 10/10 on those grounds.

The only remotely statistical data I could find says that the average age is roughly equal (horde having a lower average, actually), and that was back before Blood Elves were introduced. :p

Anecdote: almost every NE hunter I know (8 out of 11) from my server is 25+, and 6 of them are married. Now all I need to do is turn this into statistic form and post it on the WOW forums, amirite? 


-- Z.
(green text, who cares about green text?)

[tmp]

Too much effort and too elaborate to be fake.

SirBruce disagrees..?

[waylander]

I have a more simple view of why they suck in PVP

Two ways to skin that cat. I don't really notice much about age, sex, or gear.  To me its more about the larger issues that cause them to fail, and gear or other things just add to it.

[Lietgardis]

They're from the University of Phoenix!

[Trouble]

The only remotely statistical data I could find says that the average age is roughly equal (horde having a lower average, actually), and that was back before Blood Elves were introduced. :p

This is what lead me to call fake. Nick Yee is someone I actually trust and his statistics put the numbers much, much closer (although there IS a variance in his data, it's just much smaller). Also there's no way in hell that BGs are that lopsided. They're not. The only one that's still a bit wonky is AV and that is still recovering from documented, provable horde side advantage in terrain design. (I play Horde)

[cmlancas]

The post of the short-skirt picture was very well played. Well done, sir.

[ahoythematey]

I'll be in my bunk.

[UnSub]

I'll be in my bunk.

FIFY.

[ahoythematey]

Touché.

[Cadaverine]

I have a more simple view of why they suck in PVP

Two ways to skin that cat. I don't really notice much about age, sex, or gear.  To me its more about the larger issues that cause them to fail, and gear or other things just add to it.

After reading your article, it sounds like a carbon copy of what I've experienced in the various BG's while leveling up a Horde character on Venture Co.  Strangely enough, I also experienced exactly the same thing leveling Alliance characters on Sargeras.  I chalk it up to PUG's just sucking in general, though it does seem to be related to the whole "I wanna be the hero that saves the day!" mentality over all.  In world pvp, though, the Alliance players do seem to be pretty shitty compared to Horde, though.

[Jayce]

I have a more simple view of why they suck in PVP

Two ways to skin that cat. I don't really notice much about age, sex, or gear.  To me its more about the larger issues that cause them to fail, and gear or other things just add to it.

After reading your article, it sounds like a carbon copy of what I've experienced in the various BG's while leveling up a Horde character on Venture Co.  Strangely enough, I also experienced exactly the same thing leveling Alliance characters on Sargeras.  I chalk it up to PUG's just sucking in general, though it does seem to be related to the whole "I wanna be the hero that saves the day!" mentality over all.  In world pvp, though, the Alliance players do seem to be pretty shitty compared to Horde, though.

Hey, a Sargeras alliance alum like me!

Seriously though.  On that server, alliance side, I can count the number of heals I got in PvP on one hand.  Ever.