Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 29, 2024, 12:34:57 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
we're back, baby
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Everquest 2  |  Topic: Big changes for characters coming 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: [1] 2 3 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Big changes for characters coming  (Read 24713 times)
kaid
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3113


on: October 19, 2004, 07:59:42 PM

Woah looks like they were keeping some pretty pudgy rabbits under their hats. This is a pretty serious change to their stated plans along a path that I think from most of the gripes I have heard a good direction for the game.

Many of you likely will not care one way or another but it is a pretty big shift in stance for them and makes for an interesting read.




Since character individualization in EverQuest II has been a hot topic following the lifting of the NDA, we thought it would be a good idea to share our plan for the all-new features that are going live in the next few weeks to give a greater sense of uniqueness to players. We’ll be releasing more details each day, beginning with the character traits list tomorrow afternoon.

First, let’s talk about what’s changing from its current state.

We’re releasing the final class spells and arts lists. These move away from the standard archetype spells and arts we’ve been using for balance testing and give players access to their class-specific spell selections. The spells and arts you’ll see in the next few updates include new effects, class-specific strengths and flavor, and final names.

These spell changes are taking place across the board and will greatly refine class differences from what they are today. We’ve completed the balancing necessary to give a solid role to each class and now we’re excited to release the new spell and art lists.

To illustrate how these changes work, we'll use the Mage -> Sorcerer -> Wizard progression as an example.

Unlike how it was in the previous spell lists, once you turn level 10 you stop being just a mage. As you choose your path and complete your quest, from that point forward you are a sorcerer. There are no new mage spells after level 10. Each class will be branch off into entirely class-specific spells.

Once you turn level 20 and choose the path of a wizard, you are no longer a sorcerer. As before, there are no new sorcerer spells after level 20. You will be gaining wizard subclass spells from there forward.

In other words, there is no longer any such thing as a "level 44 mage spell," because a high-level wizard should never think of himself or herself as a level 44 mage in EverQuest II.

You will still be able to do a number of the same things to keep being useful in your key roles, but with unique and interesting differences that are suitable to each of the classes and subclasses that branch out from the common base.

For example, all priests will continue to receive instant heals, but other heal types will be restricted based on class. Only shamans will get wards, only druids will get regens, and only clerics will get reactive heals.

Classes will also receive a greater assortment of unique spells and arts. These are additional abilities that will likely be purchased off vendors. For example, illusionists will be able to cast racial illusions.

Full spell and art lists for each class will be released in the next few days.

Next, we’d like to outline some brand new features going live in the coming days and weeks. These systems add a tremendous amount of customization to each character and should help you create the unique persona you'll want to play in EverQuest II.

New Feature - Training Specialized Abilities

As you develop your character, you’ll be able to specialize in major aspects of your profession. About every ten levels, you can choose to focus on one of your core abilities and receive advanced training to improve it.
For example, a priest could train and receive either a stronger heal, a more potent buff, or a higher-damage nuke. This ability would be of much greater potency than the typical granted spell and may be upgraded even more through adventuring.
Each profession gets similar choices that play to their strengths – fighters may choose between offensive and defensive enhancements, or mages may focus on improving a damage spell, a pet, or a stun spell as appropriate to their profession.
New Feature - Character Traits

Character traits allow you to choose an aspect of your character and improve upon it. Traits are independent of your character’s race or profession, and all characters have access to the full list.
By the time they’ve reached level 50, every character will gain access to seven traits that help tailor their character to their preferred play style.
For example, a given character might choose to become Clever, thereby increasing their intelligence. Another character might choose to become Nimble, thereby increasing their base agility.
Traits can improve your character in a variety of areas, such as increasing your statistics, giving more health or power, improving your health or power regeneration speed, and making your more resistant to magic, disease, or different types of melee damage.
Traits are generally permanent effects that continuously improve your character during play. Once you’ve selected a trait, you’ll enjoy its benefits permanently.
New Feature - Racial Traditions

As players learn the background and lore of their chosen race, they begin to unlock certain bonuses. This starts with race-specific titles and leads to a choice of racial abilities.
By the time they’ve reached level 50, every character will gain access to four racial traditions to help tailor their character to their preferred play style and distinguish themselves from other members of their race.
For instance, an iksar could choose from enhanced health regeneration, increased power regeneration, or increased armor class. A ratonga may learn to forage for food or improve his ability to dodge blows. Erudites may learn to summon a magical wisp, guard themselves with a magic-resistant shield, or improve their alchemist crafting abilities.
Racial traditions take many forms, but are generally activated abilities that can be used on demand to greatly improve your character for a short period of time.
Some traditions give bonuses similar to traits, but with much more powerful effects.
Full racial tradition lists will be released for every race in the next few days.
New Feature - Enemy Mastery

During your adventuring career, you’ll be able to learn about the creatures and monsters you’re fighting and use that knowledge to your advantage.
Every few levels, players may choose from a selection of enemies and undertake a quest to learn how to exploit their weaknesses. The successful completion of this quest results in an enhanced attack against that type of enemy.
By the time they’ve reached level 50, every character will gain access to six enemy masteries to help tailor their character to their preferred play style.
Summary

These new kinds of choices allow for greater individualization without creating major imbalances between subclasses. One dwarf templar can have different stats and abilities than another dwarf templar while retaining the core abilities that they need to be successful in their key roles. Approximately every two levels players will receive an additional choice that allows another degree of individualization.

We plan to have the first round of these features showing up in next week's scheduled update (week of 10/25/04) with additional features arriving the week after. We look forward to hearing what you think of these upcoming changes.

Message Edited by Moorgard on 10-19-2004 07:50 PM
Aenovae
Terracotta Army
Posts: 131


Reply #1 on: October 19, 2004, 08:21:07 PM

Those changes are pretty significant.
They sound pretty cool, too.  
Sometimes listening to the raving, mouthbreathing forum posters is a good thing?

Except that now you need to be much more careful about race and ability selection if you want to min/max properly.  You may pick the "wrong" race and specializations for that Guardian you were hoping to play, and gimp yourself in the long run.


I'll be amazed if SOE can implement and debug all these changes in the remaining month(s) they have before release.
schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345


WWW
Reply #2 on: October 19, 2004, 08:22:31 PM

Sony has never announced an actual release date as far as I know. It may all be a cat and mouse game just to fuck Blizzard. You know what? I would crack up if they just didn't release until like a month after them. If they play their cards right, I do believe a 12 gun salute may be due to the victor.

Oh, and I like these changes. I may start a new character just to see how they function.
Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23612


Reply #3 on: October 19, 2004, 08:29:31 PM

Quote from: Moorgard
To illustrate how these changes work, we'll use the Mage -> Sorcerer -> Wizard progression as an example.

Unlike how it was in the previous spell lists, once you turn level 10 you stop being just a mage. As you choose your path and complete your quest, from that point forward you are a sorcerer. There are no new mage spells after level 10. Each class will be branch off into entirely class-specific spells.

Once you turn level 20 and choose the path of a wizard, you are no longer a sorcerer. As before, there are no new sorcerer spells after level 20. You will be gaining wizard subclass spells from there forward.

In other words, there is no longer any such thing as a "level 44 mage spell," because a high-level wizard should never think of himself or herself as a level 44 mage in EverQuest II.

You will still be able to do a number of the same things to keep being useful in your key roles, but with unique and interesting differences that are suitable to each of the classes and subclasses that branch out from the common base.

Cynical translation: Our Archetype system sucks so we're going back to EQ-style classes but it's too late to change all the Archetype and Class quests so we're only fixing it for Subclasses.


Quote from: Moorgard
New Feature - Training Specialized Abilities

As you develop your character, you’ll be able to specialize in major aspects of your profession. About every ten levels, you can choose to focus on one of your core abilities and receive advanced training to improve it.

Player characters in EQII are even more cookie-cutter than in EQ so we're putting in a Band-Aid EQ-style AA system until we can figure out what the hell we're doing with this game.


Quote
New Feature - Racial Traditions

As players learn the background and lore of their chosen race, they begin to unlock certain bonuses. This starts with race-specific titles and leads to a choice of racial abilities.

Yes we know you were told a billion times this wasn't going to happen (it's even in our FAQ), but you know what? You were right our races suck big time. Sorry about that.
Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536


Reply #4 on: October 19, 2004, 08:30:11 PM

It's nice to see SOE respond to the concerns. We'll never know whether this was a response to the negative reviews of the game play of late, or if this was truly their intention all along and they've just been sitting on it until we test more core stuff. Normally it wouldn't matter. Whatever's good for the player and yadda yadda. But, I really do wonder how much that'll effect what has been tested for months. How will a nearly revamped spell and skill system for all players be adequately tested in the next four weeks? I don't know. Maybe the changes are more subtle that than. But I can't help but reference the DAoC Theurgist that was invented three weeks prior to launch. Untested, overpowered, concerning.

However, that is irrelevant, because I two major issues with what I see here. I really need to see the spell lists to know if my suspicions are valid, but here's my concern:

They are not providing more abilities per class. They're reducing them. They're doing so by removing the relevance of your previously achieved Tiers. No more Wizards using relevant Sorcerer and Mage spells is how I read this:

Quote
once you turn level 10 you stop being just a mage. As you choose your path and complete your quest, from that point forward you are a sorcerer. There are no new mage spells after level 10. Each class will be branch off into entirely class-specific spells.


Secondly, they still seemed focused on arbitrary specialization, if this statement means anything:

Quote
Only shamans will get wards, only druids will get regens, and only clerics will get reactive heals.

"Only"?

It's nice to see things like Training Specializations and Character Traits. Those will result in some diversity. Unfortunately, they've used "once they reach 50" enough to drive home the point that a class hasn't become fully realized until the late 40s.

That's a long way off for a casual player, many months at least, and only if they don't get bored with their first three characters.

Not everyone's going to have the patience for that. They also don't need to anymore.

Quote from: schild
It may all be a cat and mouse game just to fuck Blizzard. You know what? I would crack up if they just didn't release until like a month after them.

Heh. I would love to see SOE not launch this until late Winter. They could get those bored with WoW well before Guild Wars gives them a free alternative. Alas, the allure of box sales may be too strong to resist. Even if half of them never get opened, they've still got the cash to pay the bills.

Particularly from those suckers who can't cancel their pre-orders because they've been "partially shipped" (the hook being the Pre-order kits which most have long since lost I'm sure, so can't return ;) )
jpark
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1538


Reply #5 on: October 19, 2004, 08:43:34 PM

I am impressed.  

On the other hand - I think Trippy did a good job of editorializing these changes.

Now...

If they could only improve the appearances of these goddamn avatars.  The dwarf is pathetic.  None of the postures appear natural - the movement kinetics really seem to suck (edit - spoiled by CoH again).

If they give the option of turning hood / helmet graphics off on your character - it might just save part of their useless character creation system as it currently stands which is entirely about head nuances.

I am jaded about this - but I do plan to give EQII a genuine effort when it is available.

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
Resvrgam
Terracotta Army
Posts: 122


WWW
Reply #6 on: October 19, 2004, 08:49:34 PM

Lol, Trippy!   Did you bug the SOE conference room or something?

"In olden times, people studied to improve themselves. Today, they only study to impress others." - Confucius
Cosmik
Terracotta Army
Posts: 26


Reply #7 on: October 20, 2004, 02:48:34 AM

"At just this moment it had been announced that Oceania was not after all at war with Eurasia. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Eurasia was an ally."

Good-looking changes, compared with the crap with a token ribbon that was paraded around before, but implementation is going to be a different kettle of fish.
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449

Badge Whore


Reply #8 on: October 20, 2004, 03:23:52 AM

Looks like some good stuff.  I agree with Trippy's cynical evaluation of things, but hey at least SOE realized they were problems and is attempting to fix them.   I worry, like Darniaq, if they can actually get all this done in a reasonable timeframe.  

No way in hell it'll be balanced, though, since they still plan on shipping sometime in 2004.  (Yes, no date has been announced, but that's the cry from each and every community rep when the question is posed, or someone on the 'public' boards says no way it'll ship.  "It WILL ship in 2004.")

It's a GOOD thing they're giving race customizations, IMO.  That was one of the fun parts of EQ.  My Half-Elf druid played differently (at low levels, before you hit all the Equipment that 'levels out' the races.) from a Wood Elf or Halfling because I had different stats and a much smaller mana pool.  It was a challenge and more fun, IMO, because I WAS different from other druids in a small but significant to me way.

The creature mastery thing, though.  Isn't that at least partially in game already?  You've got those tomes that give you special attacks vs monster types. So would this be extra damage on top of those or a different attack button, giving you 2 attacks against some creature types.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Cosmik
Terracotta Army
Posts: 26


Reply #9 on: October 20, 2004, 03:27:13 AM

Quote from: Merusk

The creature mastery thing, though.  Isn't that at least partially in game already?  You've got those tomes that give you special attacks vs monster types. So would this be extra damage on top of those or a different attack button, giving you 2 attacks against some creature types.


I figured it was the same thing, and they were "officially" announcing it now. Or at the least they changed the tomes into this system. But I can't see why 2 stacking effects would be needed.
Kageru
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4549


Reply #10 on: October 20, 2004, 03:39:20 AM

Perhaps it's actually a limiter. Aren't you currently able to do as many of the "creature mastery" quests as your tedium tolerance allows?

Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
- Simond
Signe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 18942

Muse.


Reply #11 on: October 20, 2004, 05:16:25 AM

This is more like what I was talking about, though not as intensive as I'd like.  I will certainly enjoy developing my character more with this in place.  At least I the character I will certainly gimp (as usual) will be of my own making and not just some off the rack, pre-manufactured oops-barbarian clerics-don't-work-right sort of gimp.

I guess they finally realised  that people are quite capable of destroying their own characters with their own choices, and we really don't need their help.  I, myself, am an expert in doing this.

My Sig Image: hath rid itself of this mortal coil.
Soukyan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1995


WWW
Reply #12 on: October 20, 2004, 05:45:33 AM

I guess everybody here enjoyed the ridiculous imbalancing of classes in EQ1 because all this additional specialization stuff is just going to lead to "flavor of the month" skills/spells/classes. Next, players will want "respecs" for each of those and SOE will respond by making a quest (doable by 24 level 50s) to earn a single respec, or something like that. I guess I'm being far more cynical than the rest of you, but I just have this sinking feeling that a lot of replays of the EQ1 problems could crop up under those systems.

I am glad that they are making the effort to make some better variety. However, this will also mean that more specialization (i.e. Wizard no longer gets Mage spells at high levels) will lead to a greater need to group. Less self sufficience. Not that grouping is a bad thing, but at higher levels, you will find that grouping will probably become a complete necessity.

"Life is no cabaret... we're inviting you anyway." ~Amanda Palmer
"Tree, awesome, numa numa, love triangle, internal combustion engine, mountain, walk, whiskey, peace, pascagoula" ~Lantyssa
"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis qu'on a perdus." ~Marcel Proust
Ookii
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 2676

is actually Trippy


WWW
Reply #13 on: October 20, 2004, 05:51:48 AM

Oh wow they are doing this, devs put down their foot in the other direction on the beta boards.  This will make me play the game again (as soon as the implement this), good thing I just ordered that extra gb of ram (I find that the longer EQ2 runs, the more sluggish the game becomes).

Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23612


Reply #14 on: October 20, 2004, 06:26:30 AM

Quote from: Soukyan
I guess everybody here enjoyed the ridiculous imbalancing of classes in EQ1 because all this additional specialization stuff is just going to lead to "flavor of the month" skills/spells/classes. Next, players will want "respecs" for each of those and SOE will respond by making a quest (doable by 24 level 50s) to earn a single respec, or something like that. .

Most of the class imbalance problems when I was playing only applied to the raiding game and that was because one, Verant never anticipated more than a single group attacking a mob and two they never anticipated stats/damage to inflat so much through the various expansions. This led to class problems like DoTs and debuffs not stacking, not being able to keep pets under control, CH being the uber heal, and Warriors being the only ones that could tank the uber uber mobs cause of Defensive. In the regular "killing blues" single group exp grind, I felt the classes were balanced about as well as you could hope for in a game of that complexity. Yes there were class issues even in the single group game but every class had problems so even the worst classes were not that far below the others.

Quote

I guess I'm being far more cynical than the rest of you, but I just have this sinking feeling that a lot of replays of the EQ1 problems could crop up under those systems

They *probably* won't make the same mistakes as they did in EQ, but given what they've done with EQII it's likely they'll make a bunch of new ones.

Quote

I am glad that they are making the effort to make some better variety. However, this will also mean that more specialization (i.e. Wizard no longer gets Mage spells at high levels) will lead to a greater need to group. Less self sufficience. Not that grouping is a bad thing, but at higher levels, you will find that grouping will probably become a complete necessity.

I've only just started testing EQII but already I feel that this "anyone can solo to the highest levels" is a crock of baloney. Yes you probably could do that but that would mean camping a very very limited set of mobs over and over and over again until you could fight them in your sleep. I've mostly been playing a Scout so far and exploring around with Sneak I can see, at least at the low levels, how much content is simply unavailable to the solo players. There have been patch messages about new content for soloers so maybe that's changing but so far I've been seriously underwhelmed by the solable content.
kaid
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3113


Reply #15 on: October 20, 2004, 06:35:05 AM

As for the comment about this leading to less spell abilities I do not believe so. Currently at level 18 as a summoner I am using the second iteration of my newbie dd. In the current system I will be using rehashed versions of that same spell from level 1 to 50 as my main nuke.

With the new system they likely would replace the former upgrades to a mage specific nuke which to be honest I expect to do just about the same damage. I expect alot of the powers they currently have will be tweaked and modified a bit to keep the current good balance and then build on the differences from there.

I expect the at least 1 new power per level to stand under their new system and very likely more spells than that.

One thing that is really making people happy especially the necros with this is previously as a conjuror or a necro every time you got your next tank pet upgrade you were back to the stone roach again. So instead of looking more powerful you would on an increased level look like a newbie again.

They are revamping it so that the higher pets instead of just looking like the newbie one all have their own graphics which was one of my biggest pet peves as a summoner.

We shall have to see how this pans out but given all the comments I have seen on various boards I believe this is really a step in the right direction for them.


kaid
Ookii
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 2676

is actually Trippy


WWW
Reply #16 on: October 20, 2004, 06:47:24 AM

I have a question; instead of getting one new power a level, why couldn't we got something equivalent to one spell slot?  Then we could pick a spell out of the (I can't think of anything) big book o' spells, and it would take up the slot.  You could only pick some spells based on level, and if you went past that level you couldn't pick that spell anymore.  Someone else could probaly think of something more creative, but what you basically get out of this system are characters of sub-classes with unique spell lists.  Then, with their new training system, you could train some of your spells and have a truley unique character.

El Gallo
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2213


Reply #17 on: October 20, 2004, 06:58:42 AM

Customization ++, Balance --.  

GROUP LOOKING FOR 7xDEF SPEC IKSAR GUARDIAN WITH 4xAC RACE FOCUS, PST

I actually like it.  I think a bit of controversy and imbalance is a worthwhile price to pay for a bit of diversity.  But it needs some sort of re-specialization mechanic to prevent perma-gimpage.  And I never thought that EQ1's balance problems were limited to raids, a number of classes had serious grouping balance problems at various points in EQ1 (warriors v pal/sk in Kunark/Velious and then again in PoP, clerics v druids forever, wizards v rogues in Velious/Luclin, etc)

As for release dates, if I was SoE I would not release EQ2 until WoW had been out for 6 months.  By then, a lot of people will be getting tired of it.  Releasing a month or two after WoW, when people are still enthralled by the shiney but have not yet consumed every inch of content 6 times over, would be about the worst thing they can do.

This post makes me want to squeeze into my badass red jeans.
Soukyan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1995


WWW
Reply #18 on: October 20, 2004, 07:30:42 AM

Quote from: kaid
With the new system they likely would replace the former upgrades to a mage specific nuke which to be honest I expect to do just about the same damage. I expect alot of the powers they currently have will be tweaked and modified a bit to keep the current good balance and then build on the differences from there.

I expect the at least 1 new power per level to stand under their new system and very likely more spells than that.


Once again, I may be overly cynical here, but can you say "same spell, different name"? I'm sure there may be some unique spells that come from this, but as in EQ1, most spells are just upgraded versions of the previous with a neater name. This won't change just because you no longer will be getting mage spells. You'll be getting a "mage" DD (direct damage) with a Wizard spell naming convention. Again, there will be spells that will vary to make the classes "unique", but I don't expect that all the spells for each sub-class will be made into a hugely varietal series.

1 new power per level sounds about right. I don't want to get my hopes up. ;)

Hopefully, I'll have a chance to start testing the game by this weekend, so I can better gauge where I think they're going, but my years of experience in EQ and DAoC (of which this system of theirs is a hybrid combination) have given me a lot of information to draw upon about how this can be handled and the most likely way that they will handle it. I really should try to have more faith in their development team, but it's an SOE thing. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than terribly disappointed.

It's nice to see that they have some new pet models in place though. Some times simple little things can make a big difference in the game.

"Life is no cabaret... we're inviting you anyway." ~Amanda Palmer
"Tree, awesome, numa numa, love triangle, internal combustion engine, mountain, walk, whiskey, peace, pascagoula" ~Lantyssa
"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis qu'on a perdus." ~Marcel Proust
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42628

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #19 on: October 20, 2004, 08:22:14 AM

All I can say about this is that with as SLOW as experience comes solo up to level 11, most of these "character individualization" options would never be seen by me in game. I can't stand the fact that I can't really distinguish myself from other members of my same beginning archetype until level 20. It just seems like an eternity full of boring combat and mediocre questing.

Maybe it's changed since I played last Thursday.

Soukyan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1995


WWW
Reply #20 on: October 20, 2004, 08:29:03 AM

Quote from: HaemishM
All I can say about this is that with as SLOW as experience comes solo up to level 11, most of these "character individualization" options would never be seen by me in game. I can't stand the fact that I can't really distinguish myself from other members of my same beginning archetype until level 20. It just seems like an eternity full of boring combat and mediocre questing.

Maybe it's changed since I played last Thursday.


Exactly why a lot of people bitched about the "level to 5 before you can spec" BS of DAoC. Luckily the first 5 levels of DAoC go by quickly. Even so, I still detest the whole "base class" and then specialize crap. They could just do all the sub-sub-classes and add in the other specialization systems that were mentioned and that would provide a huge amount of variety for players. But once again, the level to 20 to become truly unique is a factor of the extend subscription mentality. It's also a factor of the developers thinking that players need that much time to learn how to play a class. Once again, I can play a cleric from day 1 very well by virtue of the fact that I am an intelligent person and a decent gamer. Sure, it'll take me a while to refine my skills at a particular class, but why not let my own skills dictate how long it takes me to get good instead of imposing an artificial level barrier on how good I'm allowed to get? The answer: For Jack McAllthumbs who complains that it's unfair that another player might be more skilled than he is.

"Life is no cabaret... we're inviting you anyway." ~Amanda Palmer
"Tree, awesome, numa numa, love triangle, internal combustion engine, mountain, walk, whiskey, peace, pascagoula" ~Lantyssa
"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis qu'on a perdus." ~Marcel Proust
kaid
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3113


Reply #21 on: October 20, 2004, 08:46:07 AM

Leveling speed to 11 really depends on what you are doing. Frankly I got off the island dinged to 8 then got level 10 about 3 hours later just getting quests in the ghettos and doing the run around stuff. I didn't even start really fighting on the main land until 10 as I dinged so fast it wasn't even necessary.

If you are just straight mob hunting then yes xp will likely feel slow. As a newbie doing the ghetto quests is great for gear/cash/xp and will shoot you up to your class quest in no time at all.


kaid
Soukyan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1995


WWW
Reply #22 on: October 20, 2004, 08:54:05 AM

Quote from: kaid
Leveling speed to 11 really depends on what you are doing. Frankly I got off the island dinged to 8 then got level 10 about 3 hours later just getting quests in the ghettos and doing the run around stuff. I didn't even start really fighting on the main land until 10 as I dinged so fast it wasn't even necessary.

If you are just straight mob hunting then yes xp will likely feel slow. As a newbie doing the ghetto quests is great for gear/cash/xp and will shoot you up to your class quest in no time at all.


kaid


I don't think I'll mind the waiting for level 20 the first few times through. I think it becomes tedious to people once they've "been there, done that". I hope to be so busy doing quests and enjoying the world that I won't notice the leveling up to 20 before it happens.

"Life is no cabaret... we're inviting you anyway." ~Amanda Palmer
"Tree, awesome, numa numa, love triangle, internal combustion engine, mountain, walk, whiskey, peace, pascagoula" ~Lantyssa
"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis qu'on a perdus." ~Marcel Proust
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42628

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #23 on: October 20, 2004, 09:00:23 AM

You don't get it. I WAS questing to 11. Most of the time, the only mob hunting I did was because of a quest. It was still too slow. Part of it, as I've said in my "First Impressions" thread, is that I'm on a severely underpowered machine.

Sure, I CAN do the quests and I did do them. Other than the linked quests, and even those quests, no quest I took made me sit up and go "That's pretty cool."

Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536


Reply #24 on: October 20, 2004, 10:57:05 AM

I am a questor as well. I'll only Grind if I'm near the end of a level (and can grind it out in under 20 minutes). I have a very low threshold for bullshit Treadmills these days, mostly because I can be a fan of the genre and have non-treadmilly options within. The quests are great, but nothing groundbreaking, nothing we haven't seen before, and nothing we don't get in WoW.

EQ2 is too slow in the early levels. Being fully realized later is fine, but we're not talking CoH level 20 "fully realized" here. We're talking two to three months of effort on one character, after you've gone through a few other characters to decide which one you want to take to full realization. This in a system without sidekicking, with almost no power leveling, with almost irrelevant twinking (since everything you can get scales to your level, more so with Moorgard's new comments), and with no respeccing.

This is fine. Some will like it. Most won't though, particularly those who've played WoW and see how differently that handles it. You can choose where to specialize, if you want to broaden, each class has more options within it than even EQlive has, and most are useful.

It's nice they're talking about how characters can later be broadened. I just hope they don't expect a lot of gamers to care.

Unfortunately, SOE has set themselves up for unmanageable expectations. EQ2, like SWG, will not possibly sell as many, nor gain as many subscriptions, as they expect. So no matter how they slice it, it will "under perform". Which sucks. If they were smart, they'd expect to sell 300k in boxes, which pays about half the development budget, and maybe expect to plateau at 150k subscriptions, which after maintenaince fees kick in, probably means the game is paid off in six months to a year.
jpark
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1538


Reply #25 on: October 20, 2004, 04:34:58 PM

Quote from: El Gallo
I actually like it.  I think a bit of controversy and imbalance is a worthwhile price to pay for a bit of diversity.


Absolutely - well put.

Darniaq - We have different views perhaps of EQ2.  IMO EQ2 never really was intended to expand the EQ franchize, as its alarming similiarities to EQ1 recently corroborated:  it's purpose is to stem the hemorrhage of users from EQ1 that will inevitably occur.

This is not about increasing market share - but defending it.  If they were serious about increasing market share - they would have made a game quite unlike EQ1...

"I think my brain just shoved its head up its own ass in retaliation.
"  HaemishM.
stray
Terracotta Army
Posts: 16818

has an iMac.


Reply #26 on: October 20, 2004, 05:32:08 PM

Quote
Woah looks like they were keeping some pretty pudgy rabbits under their hats.


Quote
Oh wow they are doing this, devs put down their foot in the other direction on the beta boards. This will make me play the game again (as soon as the implement this), good thing I just ordered that extra gb of ram (I find that the longer EQ2 runs, the more sluggish the game becomes).


Either the people who are saying they're happy about these new changes are being sarcastic, or they're extremely naive. I'm pretty sure no one here is naive, so I'm just hoping some of you are being your usual sarcastic selves.

I'm surprised how many have let their guard down so quick due to these announcements. General rule of thumb: If the game is a piece of shit now, then there's a very high chance it's going to remain that way. Forever.

No need to mention AO or AC2 either. They still suck.

Besides, even if they do implement this stuff (broken or unbroken), isn't it a bit unprofessional to keep a major portion of your archetype system a secret?...Considering it's fucking Beta TEST. The only way it's excusable is if they don't plan on releasing until at least next year.
Venkman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11536


Reply #27 on: October 20, 2004, 05:45:59 PM

Quote from: Stray
Besides, even if they do implement this stuff (broken or unbroken), isn't it a bit unprofessional to keep a major portion of your archetype system a secret?.

They can keep it a secret if they want, but not four weeks before launch. Some folks believe they've had this planned all along. Others think they're responding to the negative advertising and to the daily threads about the sameness.

It doesn't really matter why they're doing this as much as they do it before Launch with enough time to test it, and that it doesn't break the game. I have visions of the DAoC Theurgist here, which was entirely redesigned and patched in three weeks before launch. You can imagine the results. And that was just one class.

We'll see. It could flop or the next four weeks could turn around the 'meh' rampant in the review. I'm perversely fascinated by this whole thing. Not sure why, except maybe to relate to those watching SWG in June 2003 :)
Aenovae
Terracotta Army
Posts: 131


Reply #28 on: October 20, 2004, 10:12:10 PM

Here's the first change:  Advancement Path: Traits

Quote
Yesterday we revealed some exciting features coming soon to beta designed to help you individualize your EverQuest II character. These advancement paths include: character traits, enemy tactics, racial traditions, specialized training, and all-new spells and arts unique to each class. Together, these options will help you to make your character unique as you travel through the world of Norrath.

Today we'll provide more detail on traits and explain how they help you individualize your character.

Traits
Traits are one of the advancement paths that help you to build a unique identity in EverQuest II. Every few levels you get to choose a new trait that improves an important aspect of your character. Any character can choose any trait, regardless of their race or class.

 

When it's time to choose a new trait, you will be presented with a list of four or five options with detailed explanations of how each choice would affect your character. You can pick any one trait from the list and enjoy its benefits immediately. The effect of each trait is permanent and does not need to be activated.

 

By level 50, every character will have chosen eight traits that help tailor their character to their preferred style of play. Below we list the first three trait choices and show at what level you receive them:

 

Level 8

Brawny - Strike down your enemies in battle! This trait makes you more physically imposing by bestowing enhanced strength.
Nimble - An orc can't hurt you if it can't hit you! This trait heightens your reflexes by making you more agile.
Durable - Your toughness is apparent to everyone. This trait improves your fortitude by granting increased stamina.
Insightful - You have traveled far and wide. This trait aids your journey to enlightenment by making you wiser.
Clever - Years of study have honed your mind. This trait enhances your knowledge by making you more intelligent.
Level 14

Hardy - Learn to avoid the scorpion's sting and the assassin's blade. This trait improves your longevity by making you more resistant to all types of poisons.
Cold Blooded - Fire and lava are nothing to fear! This trait allows you to better control your body temperature by increasing your resistance to heat.
Warm Blooded - Withstand even the harshest winter. This trait increases your inner fire and allows you to better avoid the effects of intense cold.
Hygienic - Plague and illness are for the weak. This trait enhances your vigor by allowing you to avoid the effects of disease.
Intent - Your mind is an impenetrable fortress! This trait focuses your will, thereby allowing you to better resist mental attacks.
Level 22

Sturdy - Your durability is the stuff of legend. This trait makes you more robust by increasing your total health.
Focused - Your foes tremble at your considerable might! This trait expands your available energy by increasing your total power.
Healthy - Others marvel at your recuperative ability. You improve the rate at which your health recovers.
Calm - You possess the discipline of a master. This trait focuses your mind and allows you to recover power more quickly.
Higher-level trait choices offer additional opportunities to personalize your character. Traits focus on enhancing your options at the character level, while other advancement paths will allow you to personalize your race and class.

 

Tomorrow we will detail our Tactics system, which allows you to unlock the secrets of your opponents and use that knowledge against them!

============================
Moorgard
EQII Community Guy


Here's hoping they remember to implement a respec.
Here's knowing they won't bother.

Personally, I'd rather just leave these options unchosen until much higher level when you know exactly how they affect your character.  And how to avoid gimpage.
Kageru
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4549


Reply #29 on: October 20, 2004, 10:55:09 PM

Wow, stat and resist buffs, my beating heart. Although as far as I know stats in EQ2, in order to keep a gnome berserker viable, are largely meaningless. Still, give them credit, this whole thing has certainly given them a breathing space from the bad PR of their initial offering.

Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
- Simond
Tebonas
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6365


Reply #30 on: October 21, 2004, 12:36:24 AM

I'm underwhelmed by the whole system. I fear those changes won't save it.

My Level 12 Shaman (yes, I'll level him up till I can see Everfrost, go there and leave the game and never look back actually) tossing around Clerical Divine Nukes is an insult to the roleplayer in me. "Civilized Races" Shaman are an insult to the roleplayer in me. My Shaman Healing Runes which do exactly the same thing as the Druid Regeneration Spells and die Cleric Heals are an insult to the individualist in me.

What they did is make four classes. Every Subclass is interchangeable with every other, the roughly feel the same way, they roughly play the same way. Then they tried to distinguish them by making them customizable. As seen with EQ1 AA-Points the best traits will be quickly found out and picked by most people. So you still have roughly the same templates at high level, and whats worse other templates will be shunned by high level groups. Its the way the MMorpg Players mind works.

So you don't have the distinguished differences from EQ1 but still the same problems. Brilliant move.
Kageru
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4549


Reply #31 on: October 21, 2004, 01:02:16 AM

Not to mention developer time taken away from other concerns on the eve of the games release. They won't delay it, they're too proud / stupid to resist the urge to compete with WoW.

Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
- Simond
AOFanboi
Terracotta Army
Posts: 935


Reply #32 on: October 21, 2004, 03:24:24 AM

Wait, this is a statement about change from the people who gave you "SWG will have a combat respec any day now"? Why not simply yawn loudly in their general direction until they actually implement something instead of just talking about it?

Current: Mario Kart DS, Nintendogs
Soukyan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1995


WWW
Reply #33 on: October 21, 2004, 04:47:19 AM

Quote from: AOFanboi
Wait, this is a statement about change from the people who gave you "SWG will have a combat respec any day now"? Why not simply yawn loudly in their general direction until they actually implement something instead of just talking about it?


You hit the nail on the head.

"Life is no cabaret... we're inviting you anyway." ~Amanda Palmer
"Tree, awesome, numa numa, love triangle, internal combustion engine, mountain, walk, whiskey, peace, pascagoula" ~Lantyssa
"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis qu'on a perdus." ~Marcel Proust
Murgos
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7474


Reply #34 on: October 21, 2004, 07:54:34 AM


"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Pages: [1] 2 3 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Everquest 2  |  Topic: Big changes for characters coming  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC