Big changes for characters coming

[Sky]

What they did is make four classes.

Please insert some coins, Elf needs food!

Elf shouts, "Elf score 3260 LFG, need wizard, valkyrie, warrior WITH COINS!"

[El Gallo]

MMO Gauntlet would pwn.

I actually have some faith that they will have some sort of respec option.  There really was only one way you could mess up your character in any way in EQ, and that was picking your spell specialization school.  They allowed you to respec that.  The super-anal might say that race selection for shamans and shadowknights mattered too because they could case and could pick ogre, who are immune to frontal stuns and bash interrupt rolls, but that is pretty minor.

[shiznitz]

Level 8

Brawny - Strike down your enemies in battle! This trait makes you more physically imposing by bestowing enhanced strength.
Nimble - An orc can't hurt you if it can't hit you! This trait heightens your reflexes by making you more agile.
Durable - Your toughness is apparent to everyone. This trait improves your fortitude by granting increased stamina.
Insightful - You have traveled far and wide. This trait aids your journey to enlightenment by making you wiser.
Clever - Years of study have honed your mind. This trait enhances your knowledge by making you more intelligent.

So every fighter takes Brawny and every scout takes Nimble. However, stats are supposedly not important in EQ2 so what's the point?

Level 14

Hardy - Learn to avoid the scorpion's sting and the assassin's blade. This trait improves your longevity by making you more resistant to all types of poisons.
Cold Blooded - Fire and lava are nothing to fear! This trait allows you to better control your body temperature by increasing your resistance to heat.
Warm Blooded - Withstand even the harshest winter. This trait increases your inner fire and allows you to better avoid the effects of intense cold.
Hygienic - Plague and illness are for the weak. This trait enhances your vigor by allowing you to avoid the effects of disease.
Intent - Your mind is an impenetrable fortress! This trait focuses your will, thereby allowing you to better resist mental attacks.

Whatever category covers slow spells will the the one to take. Choosing this at level 14 is like picking a girl randomly out of the yearbook and promising to marry her in 10 years. You have no fucking idea what the choice will really mean until it is too late.

Level 22

Sturdy - Your durability is the stuff of legend. This trait makes you more robust by increasing your total health.
Focused - Your foes tremble at your considerable might! This trait expands your available energy by increasing your total power.
Healthy - Others marvel at your recuperative ability. You improve the rate at which your health recovers.
Calm - You possess the discipline of a master. This trait focuses your mind and allows you to recover power more quickly.

When HP=0 you die. More HPs will always be the best choice for any class remotely melee and Calm is like flowing thought in EQlive. A regen trait is never going to save your life, just lessen downtime.

[HaemishM]

Count me totally underwhelmed by those choices. Woooo, I can pick traits that others can probably eventually make up for with items, being that we KNOW EQ2 will be an item-centric game.

How... refreshing.

EDIT: Oh fuck, how much more ASS-KISSING SYCOPHANTS can the EQ2 Whineplay boards have? That thread was like two hours of watching complete drooling retards stumble up to the throne of Moorgard for a little rim job action.

[Zetleft]

After reading those traits I had to look at the title to make sure I hadn't stumbled into a shadowbane thread by mistake.   Yeah real original soe.   Does stats mean one iota of difference in this eq game, they sure didn't in the previous one (not noticable anyway).

[Venkman]

Choosing this at level 14 is like picking a girl randomly out of the yearbook and promising to marry her in 10 years. You have no fucking idea what the choice will really mean until it is too late.

This is my only real major problem with EQ2: the fact that it does absolutely nothing to address mistakes.

I accepted that in EQlive because the game was old and designed by sadists. But five years later, with every game at least paying lip-service to respeccing and most either including it or designing around the need, SOE remains the hold-out.

I will not role a second Warlock because I fucked up the first one. The optimum goal is to not design a game in which characters can be gimped of course. But if the lack of creativity results in a dev falling into that trap, at least allow the players to untrain.

I am underwhelmed by these changes as well. I am happy that a player can start these AAXP-like things way early in their life though.

However, I will reserve judgement on the entirety of the class system change/intention until everything is revealed. If I like it, then my decision to go with EQ2 will depend on these being implemented and tested before launch. I won't bother with the game otherwise.

[Soukyan]

Choosing this at level 14 is like picking a girl randomly out of the yearbook and promising to marry her in 10 years. You have no fucking idea what the choice will really mean until it is too late.

This is my only real major problem with EQ2: the fact that it does absolutely nothing to address mistakes.

What mistake? EQ1 has over 400,000 subscribers who love the "phat lewt to maximize your stats and resists" game. To them, that's a winning and profitable formula.

[Venkman]

The mistaken belief they can offer the same linear one-way game a second time around and expect it to sell as good as the first one.

We've had this conversation before :)

[schild]

The mistaken belief they can offer the same linear one-way game a second time around and expect it to sell as good as the first one.

They can, they aren't mistaken at all. It may not be as phenomenally breakout as the first in terms of subscriptions, but it'll cost 50% more per month.

[SirBruce]

So, I'm torn.

I generally had more fun with the gameplay in WoW.  I like WoW's quest system much better than EQII's, and EQII's massive bugs and design problems in beta lately have made me very wary.  If they give it another 3-6 months of testing, then maybe; but if they try to rush a Christmas release, it's going to be some deep hurting.

So why not WoW?  Because it seems like I'd burn through WoW's content much faster, hit the level cap and then have nothing to do but PvP, which doesn't interest me.  With EQ2, there are numerous other avenues to explore if I get tired of grinding through combat levels.  Plus, I know SOE can at least add content on a regular basis... I can't be sure the same is true for Blizzard.

Bruce

[Soukyan]

So, I'm torn.

I generally had more fun with the gameplay in WoW.  I like WoW's quest system much better than EQII's, and EQII's massive bugs and design problems in beta lately have made me very wary.  If they give it another 3-6 months of testing, then maybe; but if they try to rush a Christmas release, it's going to be some deep hurting.

So why not WoW?  Because it seems like I'd burn through WoW's content much faster, hit the level cap and then have nothing to do but PvP, which doesn't interest me.  With EQ2, there are numerous other avenues to explore if I get tired of grinding through combat levels.  Plus, I know SOE can at least add content on a regular basis... I can't be sure the same is true for Blizzard.

Bruce

Play WoW until you hit that burnout and cancel. Then pick up EQ2 and start playing. That should give you a good 3 to 6 months into their release and they should have some of the (potential) problems fixed from (an early) release.

[AlteredOne]

So why not WoW?  Because it seems like I'd burn through WoW's content much faster, hit the level cap and then have nothing to do but PvP, which doesn't interest me.

Hehe, sorry I can't help it, but it's kinda funny seeing the WW2Online guy say that PvP doesn't interest him...  But yeah, your assessment sounds about right.  Strangely, I somehow converted my wife into a PvP fiend.  I cancelled DAOC after getting bored to tears, and here she is still playing her Battleground wizard, while I read a book.  So I'm thinking she and I should enjoy the whole WoW PvP battleground concept, once it's implemented.

[HaemishM]

Just out of curiousity, Bruce, what is it that EQ2 has other than grinding that you would do? Even with all the quests, the only thing I could see doing is wandering around looking at stuff.

[Rasix]

Just out of curiousity, Bruce, what is it that EQ2 has other than grinding that you would do?

Ratonga, kerran, iksar, froglocks... Sorry. I had to go there.

[HaemishM]

The one time I try to be serious, you gotta make me piss myself laughing.

[Sky]

Play WoW until you hit that burnout and cancel. Then pick up EQ2 and start playing. That should give you a good 3 to 6 months into their release and they should have some of the (potential) problems fixed from (an early) release.

You might just be onto something there, Souk...

[schild]

Screw that, pick up Halo and Half Life 2 on the same day (days before WoW and EQ2). Play those til you get bored. Pick up the new Metal Gear Solid and Splinter Cell til you get bored. Then get Guild Wars.

This recipe = success.

[WayAbvPar]

Just out of curiousity, Bruce, what is it that EQ2 has other than grinding that you would do?

Ratonga, kerran, iksar, froglocks... Sorry. I had to go there.

I think I need a shower now.

[El Gallo]

Play WoW until you hit that burnout and cancel. Then pick up EQ2 and start playing. That should give you a good 3 to 6 months into their release and they should have some of the (potential) problems fixed from (an early) release.

This is pretty much my plan at this point.

[Sky]

Screw that, pick up Halo and Half Life 2 on the same day (days before WoW and EQ2). Play those til you get bored. Pick up the new Metal Gear Solid and Splinter Cell til you get bored.

Halo, MGS, SC = thumbsticks. I don't do console shooters.

Half-life 2? I'll wait for the reviews while I'm playing the new Vampire game. I'm one of the half dozen people who enjoyed the original.

[Venkman]

Even with all the quests, the only thing I could see doing is wandering around looking at stuff.

WoW and EQ2 are both somewhat the same in this regard. However, both are improved versions of a five year old established formula (sure it's older, but most know it by EQ and not from which it was derived). There's an allure there to at least give it a shot.

Because both are the same though, he (and I, and some others) are trying to decide which to dump time into first. It's not an easy decision because of the similarities. They're both going to sell well, there's a compulsion to be in at least one of them.

Even if it is just about the production values at first.

[SirBruce]

So why not WoW?  Because it seems like I'd burn through WoW's content much faster, hit the level cap and then have nothing to do but PvP, which doesn't interest me.

Hehe, sorry I can't help it, but it's kinda funny seeing the WW2Online guy say that PvP doesn't interest him...  But yeah, your assessment sounds about right.  Strangely, I somehow converted my wife into a PvP fiend.  I cancelled DAOC after getting bored to tears, and here she is still playing her Battleground wizard, while I read a book.  So I'm thinking she and I should enjoy the whole WoW PvP battleground concept, once it's implemented.

PvP in a PvP-centric game interests me.  I enjoyed parts of WW2 Online, and I loved M:tGO until their insane pricing scheme came along.  I was a big Manalink player back in the day.  But I don't want it in my MMORPG.

The relatively modest success of PvP MMOGs like WW2OL, PlanetSide, ShadowBane, and PvP-servers in other MMOGs, along with their combined headaches, should be ample evidence to give one pause in embracing such an idea again.

Bruce

[SirBruce]

Just out of curiousity, Bruce, what is it that EQ2 has other than grinding that you would do? Even with all the quests, the only thing I could see doing is wandering around looking at stuff.

I liked Rasix's answer better than this one, but...

1. Quest-hunting.  There's lots of little quests hidden all over the place.  I'm a completeist -- I want to do EVERYTHING, and have them all in my quest list.  So I can always do easy quests just to say, "I've done that!"  There will also be a lot of stuff involving being the first to discovery a new loot item, and getting your name in lights in the EQ2 database.

2. Books.  Lots of books to read, and book quests to follow to boot.

3. Crafting.  Okay, some of this is a grind too, but it's a different sort of grind and far more interesting than the carpal-tunnel-inducing SWG type of crafting.

4. Exploration.  Actually, this is another one of my major gripes -- there should be outdoor maps, ala WoW.  But in any case, eventually I'll run around just to see, for example, all three entrances to BlackBurrow.

Bruce

[Margalis]

I said this many months ago. The generic->specific class stuff is a terrible idea, it's the ultimate in being able to gimp your character. You have no idea how your guy will play till you hit the most specific class, then oops, you hit him.

[WayAbvPar]

4. Exploration. Actually, this is another one of my major gripes -- there should be outdoor maps, ala WoW. But in any case, eventually I'll run around just to see, for example, all three entrances to BlackBurrow.

See, now this is something every game should have for us EKA types. I just wish that exploration in most MMOGs gets you dead often enough to make it about as fun as taking a blunt instrument to your genitalia. I would love to see XPs for this type of thing- even a cartographer skill or crafting line.

[Signe]

Gee thanks, Ras.  I now have a serious case of the hiccups.

[HaemishM]

EQ2 does actually give you experience for going to places you haven't been before. Very positive thing. The lack of outdoor maps is infuriating. I'm spoiled by CoH. I don't need to have the whole zone mapped, just reveal the parts I've already seen. And for Pete's sake, mark NPC's I've already talked to who gave me the quest I just completed for them.

One thing EQ2 will not be on release, at least for the early levels, is content-deficient. There are asstons of quests.

[Fargull]

I'm spoiled by CoH.

Haemish,

I am honestly not trying to de-rail anything here, but I think when the looking glass is pointed back at the release of COH, we will see it was truly the first tier second generation of the MMORPG universe.  Reason I point to that little sentence of yours is that it fits many things that COH has provided, from speed of travel, unique character buiding, fast combat, and the backend enchancement customization metagame.

Okay.. now for EQ2.  I am actually of the boat that no maping till you get a skill that will allow you to do so, at least in a fantasy based setting.  In COH it works because anyone should be able to pick up a bloody road map.  Hell, you can get state ones for free...  Though I do agree that EQ2 should have some feature to map if none is present.

Bruce,

Are their libraries or something full of lore?  Last bloody game that I remember just having books lying about was UO...

[kaid]

The lack of outdoor maps is a bit odd after playing games like COH but honestly its not a big deal. Once you go out and explore a bit the world is really well done with lots of nice land marks to use to navigate. They also give quests for some of the bigger zones that has you find these navigation points and rewards you pretty well for doing so.


Frankly part of me is glad that there is no radar and no automap in outdoor areas. It does lend a bit more spice to navigation and finding these things. WoW handles this pretty well though and I really would not mind a WoW like outdoor map.

kaid

[Nebu]

The lack of outdoor maps is a bit odd after playing games like COH but honestly its not a big deal. Once you go out and explore a bit the world is really well done with lots of nice land marks to use to navigate. They also give quests for some of the bigger zones that has you find these navigation points and rewards you pretty well for doing so.


Frankly part of me is glad that there is no radar and no automap in outdoor areas. It does lend a bit more spice to navigation and finding these things. WoW handles this pretty well though and I really would not mind a WoW like outdoor map.

kaid

Stream-of-consciousness warning!

What about having an exploration skill (akin to crafting) where people would explore and a map would be generated as they entered new areas.  Once enough of the land mass had been explored to create a map, the player would gain some boost in skill (perhaps map accuracy, addition of landmarks, etc.).  Then players with this skill could then sell the maps (as some tangible trade item) to other players as a method of making money.  A non-explorer buying said maps of varying quality would simply add them to a map-type book that they could refer to while travelling.

You create a skill that some people would enjoy and create a player driven economy at the same time.

[Righ]

1. Quest-hunting.  There's lots of little quests hidden all over the place.  I'm a completeist -- I want to do EVERYTHING, and have them all in my quest list.  So I can always do easy quests just to say, "I've done that!"  There will also be a lot of stuff involving being the first to discovery a new loot item, and getting your name in lights in the EQ2 database.

Master Image Designer     ...has mastered the Image Designer profession

Sometimes peen waving is just indecency.

[Venkman]

You create a skill that some people would enjoy and create a player driven economy at the same time.

While a fine idea, and one proposed a few times on the beta forums, the reality is that the same people who'd enjoy using it are already parsing logs through mapping software to get the same result.

No game has done a good ingame mapping tool. Most haven't even tried. Either you're exposing a fog of war or you're using something that barely adheres to the vaguest interpretation of "tool", like the p.o.s. mapmaker released with EQlive Legacy of Ykesha.

It's certainly possible. Every day I tweak the code in the Shockwave-based mapper I've built. It's nothing. Anyone who's even walked by a book on Visual Basic can bang one out. This would be a joke for pros, take them maybe an hour start to finish.

But I guess they figure very few people are going to bother using it, so why bother spending resources on it?

It just means that, yet again, a big honkin' game doesn't provide all of the information a player wants within it.

COH, we will see it was truly the first tier second generation of the MMORPG universe

I can see that. Still the same core concept, but the game play is different enough, and the thing is polished as heck. By the time City of Villains comes out, and how much more feature complete it becomes by then, I think CoH has some true chance at some big numbers.

[Big Gulp]

Half-life 2? I'll wait for the reviews while I'm playing the new Vampire game. I'm one of the half dozen people who enjoyed the original.

Exact opposite, here.  I'll pick up HL2 review unseen (a physical copy, thanks much, and fuck you, Steam), but after how disappointed I was by the first Vampire game I'll wait for the reviews.  Still, looks like they addressed a lot of the suck in the first game.

[Soukyan]

Are their libraries or something full of lore?  Last bloody game that I remember just having books lying about was UO...

Actually, there were libraries in a few of the cities of EQ1. You could go there and read books that were in the library.

[Kageru]

The library introduced into EQ as part of the planes of power expansion has a number of lore books for sale (no drop and cheap from memory) some of which give clues to in-game quests. The problem being that EQ lore has been largely stagnant since the original launch. There's just not much to say.

There was a thread about a lore library in WoW on the beta boards, the developers like the idea but didn't think it would see much useage and didn't have the time pre-release. Not that I expect them to actually include such things post-release.