PvP quote of the year (WoW)

[El Gallo]

It's like Captain Ebolter without the wit:

"im not saying this as a kali member, but as a regular player...
im a bastard, i have fun from taking away other's fun...you have no idea what kind of joy i get out of killing an enemy that is doing a quest, because if i were questing i would expect the same from an enemy... but on the other hand, i do take notes of who has spared me and if i have an oppurtunity to kill them i wont take it...

and come on you guys, you know it too, its fun to ruin fun! and thats why i joined the PVP server"

Sign me up for the WoW PvP server!


http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=425753&P=1

[Rasix]

Sounds like brain damaged version of my high school self..  

Although I do like PVP, I will be staying the hell away from the PVP servers.  I feel strongly enough about that that if my best friends that will be playing want to play on the PVP server, they're welcome to on their own.  You couldn't get me on one of those things unless you gave me a maxxed out character on a free account.

There's no way I want to get stuck on a server with a less intelligent 17-19 year old version of myself. I know the angst, I know the desire to piss people off, I know the boredom of having nothing significant in your life to prevent you from making a game out of pissing other people off.

Fuck gank groups. Fuck getting killed while I'm working on a quest. Fuck getting killed when I don't want to be bothered. Fuck having to be alert 24/7.  I'll pvp when I'm goddamn ready and want to.

Hopefully the PVP servers will sponge up most of the angsty idiots, the griefers, the script kiddies, and the board warriors. Perhaps I should petition Blizzard to add more PVP servers.  Being able to kill annoying assclowns is a great boon, but not enough to offset all of the bullshit.

[Merusk]

Fuck gank groups. Fuck getting killed while I'm working on a quest. Fuck getting killed when I don't want to be bothered. Fuck having to be alert 24/7.  I'll pvp when I'm goddamn ready and want to.

Welcome to old age, geezer.  Dinner's at 6 and bring your own fucking wet-naps.


I loved PVP on MUDs when I was in College. It was fun, it was exciting and i had the time to do it.  I still get a thrill out of it, but I want to do it on my terms and when I want to.  These days that means FPS games with my geriatric aim and reflexes.

  Still, nothing like playing America's Army sitting in a good cover spot guarding an objective and spraying some guy with a name like "Bung33 K1ll4h" then listen to him call me a camping asshole at round's end.  Good times.

[toma levine]

And once the PVP server is well-established and the population has dropped significantly due to griefing, I'm sure we can expect the remaining population to invade the message boards for the other servers and fill them with penis-waving about how the PVP server is the "real" server, playing on the "baby" servers is just a waste of time, and anyone who does so is a big pussy.

History shall repeat itself. It's the ciiiircle of liiiiife....

[Rasix]

Welcome to old age, geezer.  Dinner's at 6 and bring your own fucking wet-naps.

Ohh yah, I realize this fully. I used to be a pvp fanatic.  I was on several pvp muds between my stints as a bastardly UO griefer/pk. Flash forward serveral years and I'm in the cafeteria line for a nice plate of liver and onions.

I realized I just couldn't keep up and had lost the taste for being one of the undesirables (if at least a well spoken one).  I mean, these kids can play all day!  Shit, I get two hours in and I'm exceeding my bounds.  Plus, I can only be a creep for so long until my conscience kicks in and I start feeling wretched.

Still I find PVP a whole lot of fun.  Two bad no game is really capitalizing on my desire for pvp competition in chunks my life can digest.  (I've tried FPSs, my aim/avoidance/circle-strafe-like-a-chicken skills peak rather early and I just end up getting  mauled after a month. )

[Merusk]

Still I find PVP a whole lot of fun.  Two bad no game is really capitalizing on my desire for pvp competition in chunks my life can digest.  (I've tried FPSs, my aim/avoidance/circle-strafe-like-a-chicken skills peak rather early and I just end up getting  mauled after a month. )

That's why I took-up AA.  Not only is it free, but stupid shit like Bunny-hopping and circle strafing isn't nearly as effective as other FPS games, because it's working hard to simulate RL combat as much as possible.  

Plus when it was first released I was charmed by the fact that there's actual objectives OTHER than 'kill all the fuckers.' It meant often times you could charge the objectives with a good team of 2-3 guys and win while the idiots were out trying to kill each other.

  Nothing was more amusing then seeing the betwen-round conversations comprised of "WTF happened? How'd they win?  They got the objective? Lame!"

[Morfiend]

What makes that specially sweet, is its comming from a member of a guild who GM is a known Blizzard employee.

On the other hand, the PVV server is not that bad at all. It is WAY less of a gank fest than any other pvp server, or pvp game. There are a few certen places that have constant PVP, but you can almost always find some high level player to drive them off.

Also, if you get killed its more of a "Fuck, I died, oh well" with a quick corpse run. Unlike some games where it is "FUCK SHIT FUCK I FUCKING DIED" *throw mouse at wall* "FUCCCCKKKK" *Rip shirt and have buttons go flying* "GRRRRRRAAAAAGGGHHH FUUUCCCKKKK" (True story about UO and my old roommate).

[WayAbvPar]

and come on you guys, you know it too, its fun to ruin fun! and thats why i joined the PVP server"

Translation- "I have small and inoffensive genitalia."

[Venkman]

Haven't looked at WoW since the Stress Test. Haven't needed to really, as I was sold on it as a viable suckage of time four minutes into it. But I have a question about PvP, and I'd rather hear it from folks I respect than sift through a zillion terabytes of alpha pups:

Is there a difference between PvP servers and Race War servers?

On the surface, a stupid question. But I ask because I played on the Race War servers exclusively and the rules there seemed pretty good.

[*]A person in their homeland could not be attacked by an invading army (a Human Fighter in Northshire couldn't be attacked by an Undead Mage). The Human would have to initiate attack, in defense of their homeland or just because.
[*]Invaders could kill everything else of course. They could wipe out quest-giving NPCs, wipe out the local resource gates, harvest the local resources, all that good stuff.
[*]They just couldn't random gank squads because they couldn't randomly attack players[/list:u]
That, to me, made PvE viable even on a "PvP" server, and I thought it was a good decision. It could allow the person disinterested in PvP for the night the freedom to quest, only calling upon their high level friends, or alts, to clear out invaders killing their quest NPCs.

Has this changed?

[MrHat]

Race wars?

[Kageru]

It's amusing watching the PvP people complain about the honor system blizzard is building. It will be interesting to see how that develops. My money is still on the griefers of course.

I'm not sure about the "race war" server, but the description sounds like the WoW normal server ruleset. Entering an enemy city, or attacking an enemy NPC, flagging you for PvP.

[Venkman]

Hmm, guess they dropped the "Race War" moniker then. Thanks for the info.

I guess the question then is:

What's the difference between a PvP server and a "normal" one? If players can enter the homelands of the enemy and become flagged for PvP by attacking content there (which notifies the enemy that you have done so by announcing 'enemy spotted in X area' type messages still?), what's different on a PvP server? Is the latter fulltime anyone/anywhere PvP?

[MrHat]

Hmm, guess they dropped the "Race War" moniker then. Thanks for the info.

I guess the question then is:

What's the difference between a PvP server and a "normal" one? If players can enter the homelands of the enemy and become flagged for PvP by attacking content there (which notifies the enemy that you have done so by announcing 'enemy spotted in X area' type messages still?), what's different on a PvP server? Is the latter fulltime anyone/anywhere PvP?

No, it's still Alliance Vs. Horde.

The difference between what you said (going in and attacking NPC's to get 'flagged') and the PvP server is that in the PvP server you can go in and attack whatever and whoever the hell you want.

Normal Server = NPC kill, healing/rezzing a flagged PvP player, and attacking a flagged PvP player all give you the flag.

PvP server = there is no flag, everyone on the opposite side is fair game.

On the normal server, the griefing usually involves waiting around 10 mins for your quest NPC to respawn so you can drop off your widgets and get your cog.

On the pvp server, the griefing usually involves getting killed by a fucking dirty night elf right before you kill your last mob that will drop your last widget that will let you get your cog.

[Venkman]

Ah, then I like the normal server. Until level-based PvP becomes something one doesn't point at and mock, I'll let others chase the mythical Balancio paper tiger while I blithely perform tasks for inanimate objects.

[Fabricated]

"im not saying this as a kali member, but as a regular player...
im a bastard, i have fun from taking away other's fun...you have no idea what kind of joy i get out of killing an enemy that is doing a quest, because if i were questing i would expect the same from an enemy... but on the other hand, i do take notes of who has spared me and if i have an oppurtunity to kill them i wont take it...

and come on you guys, you know it too, its fun to ruin fun! and thats why i joined the PVP server"

This kid's life must suck quite a bit. Hopefully his dad will get extra tanked some night soon and beat the kid into a coma.

[Romp]

Treadmill type games don't work very well for pvp but basically you just have to suck it up until you reach max level and then you don't have anything to complain about.  

I'll be playing on a pvp server anyway.

[sinij]

I might give WoW go if they implement PvP server. Anything else other than PvP I can get better from a single player game or chat room/message boards. Call me crazy but I still subscribe to player justice and that is after playing open-ended PvP games like UO, SB and few others.

[Kageru]

There isn't really a non-PvP server. The only question is whether you want a seperation between PvE and PvP modes. Speaking for myself the answer is definitely yes. Challenging PvE content inevitably leaves you unbalanced to PvP ambush.

[Liquidator]

I might give WoW go if they implement PvP server. Anything else other than PvP I can get better from a single player game or chat room/message boards. Call me crazy but I still subscribe to player justice and that is after playing open-ended PvP games like UO, SB and few others.

There is already a PVP server in the beta and as far as I know, they will be having at least one dedicated PVP server during release, so no need to worry.

[Arnold]

And once the PVP server is well-established and the population has dropped significantly due to griefing, I'm sure we can expect the remaining population to invade the message boards for the other servers and fill them with penis-waving about how the PVP server is the "real" server, playing on the "baby" servers is just a waste of time, and anyone who does so is a big pussy.

History shall repeat itself. It's the ciiiircle of liiiiife....

Unless it's like the Asheron's Call Darktide server, which grew and grew and grew as people tired of the regular servers.

When I started AC, a month or two after it launched, DT was getting about 400 people on primetime.  When I quit, it was between 1,500 and 2,000.

[Soukyan]

And once the PVP server is well-established and the population has dropped significantly due to griefing, I'm sure we can expect the remaining population to invade the message boards for the other servers and fill them with penis-waving about how the PVP server is the "real" server, playing on the "baby" servers is just a waste of time, and anyone who does so is a big pussy.

History shall repeat itself. It's the ciiiircle of liiiiife....

Unless it's like the Asheron's Call Darktide server, which grew and grew and grew as people tired of the regular servers.

When I started AC, a month or two after it launched, DT was getting about 400 people on primetime.  When I quit, it was between 1,500 and 2,000.

That happened with DAoC's 2 PvP servers and then they ended up closing one of them because the populations dropped shortly thereafter. Most people went to try it out and when they got tired of the grief, they left. All that was left were those who like "ruining other peoples' fun to have fun".

[toma levine]

My understanding of Darktide is that it had some of the worst griefing to be found since the old days of UO.

Anyways, my point is we've seen assholes like the guy quoted in the original post before (see Sullon Zek) and we'll continue to see them until either we die or we institute some sort of mandatory electroconvulsive therapy for a good portion of the world's population.

[Mesozoic]

Oddly enough, PvP is about the only aspect of WoW that really intrigues me anymore.  And I started out as such a well-meaning PvEer.  

Even then, if City of Villains releases with enough fun I would probably just skip town again to do that instead.

[El Gallo]

My concern is that even a somewhat time starved powergamer like myself will run out of PvE content long before expansions are ready, leaving me with PvP or nada.  I'm not a big twinker.

[kaid]

Frankly given the way the "non pvp" servers work in wow I just don't see the need for a full bore pvp server unless you truly enjoy being griefed. On a normal server if you want to pvp even at low levels trust me it aint hard to find a fight. And if you get sick of pvp and want to go back go grouping and not being bothered by dilweeds just kick back for 5 minutes and go about your business.

kaid

[Dren]

Coming from a guy that hasn't done any beta'ing of WoW, can you have toons on more than one server at once?  I had planned to have characters on both the PvP and Normal servers just to check them out.  If it is too much of a strain to maintain the fun in both I'll eventually choose where my catassing will continue.

Is that possible?

[El Gallo]

Yes, you can have characters on both kinds of servers.  I think they said you will get 8 characters total across all servers.  The only limit I have heard is that you can't have characters on different sides of the same PvP server.

[Ardent]

You can have up to 8 characters on each server. Right now there are 2 Beta servers and one PvP server, so that's 24 possible characters.

Right now you can have both Alliance and Horde characters on the same server, but rumor has it that when the game is released, you can only create characters on one side of the conflict for that server (like DAOC).

I tried the PvP server and hated it. Hated. It. I pretty much knew that when my night elf was killed by an undead warrior named BradPitt that someone with my personality belongs on the normal server.

[Jayce]

My understanding of Darktide is that it had some of the worst griefing to be found since the old days of UO.

Actually I think it was one of the best examples of a successful PvP server (note: in the beginning.  I haven't played in years so I have no idea what it's like now).  You probably heard about the newbie towns where people from other servers would come play - as we affectionately called it - Quaketide.

Regarding the original post:

because if i were questing i would expect the same from an enemy... but on the other hand, i do take notes of who has spared me and if i have an oppurtunity to kill them i wont take it...

Nice logic on that one... I guess he really DOESN'T like getting greifed after all, if he's willing to quid pro quo.

Formula:  BNet kiddies + MMOG + PvP server = dim prospects for maturity.  I am usually the PvP server type but I see this one being the exception.

[Nebu]

"im not saying this as a kali member, but as a regular player...
im a bastard, i have fun from taking away other's fun...you have no idea what kind of joy i get out of killing an enemy that is doing a quest, because if i were questing i would expect the same from an enemy... but on the other hand, i do take notes of who has spared me and if i have an oppurtunity to kill them i wont take it...

and come on you guys, you know it too, its fun to ruin fun! and thats why i joined the PVP server"

If you think WoW will have issues, how about the "no monthly fee" Guild Wars?  I think that game has a ton of potential, but the people likely to play it may be enough to keep me from it.

[Sky]

Sounds exactly like Grimwell's buddy from Darktide...which is why I avidly avoid 'pvp' servers.

The problem, besides the obvious 'evil is COOL' kind of immaturity, is that there is a misconception that 'anything goes in war'.

Except that this is a game, and games are subject to sportsmanship.

Goddamned kiddies. I love pvp in games like BF1942 or Planetside, but in 'regular' mmogs, I despise the pvp and have zero interest in it, partly because of buttwipes like some of the kids in that thread.

[schild]

I think one of the things to remember about Guild Wars is that you are actually entering a pvp battle. There can't really be grief kills (though through some exploit, I suppose it's possible - much like some poisons in SW:G). It's a game designed for arena combat. There isn't much room to be evil. (This applies to the PvE game since it's all instanced)

[Paelos]

Yes I think I can do without the 14 year-old Blizzard-griefer-fanboi emoting a$$rap3d over my corpse, thanks. PvP servers are like the angry goth clubs where angsty dickheads can go to get their daily does of OMGWTFIPWNDUNOOB!!!1

[Venkman]

Treadmill type games don't work very well for pvp but basically you just have to suck it up until you reach max level and then you don't have anything to complain about.

Understood. The most patience I've had is in UO and SB, because banging out a 7xGM or R5 character was about a week's worth of work, even for players like myself.

If I'm playing a game about adventuring, I'd rather just adventure within the content laid out before me. Tacking on PvP at the end is nice and all, a way to extend the account beyond the point of boredom. But the more compelling the PvP is, the more obvious the front end Grind2Crush becomes, and therefore the narrower the appeal. That's fine of course. Just not for me.

This is why I like WoW's system. At first PvP will happen across all levels. Eventually there'll be a soft cap, a price of entry for viability. I can ignore PvP in both cases, even if I play around with it in the early life of the game before the soft cap forms. This is because quests and PvE content are so thoroughly worked out, belying the nature of WoW as a PvE game first. If my interest in the game means a character survives to the soft cap, then I can try PvP, and experience it without convoluted rulesets and within the exact same environments in which I previously hunted and quested.

But the game isn't about PvP, so I'm not compelled to bypass crappy lackluster PvE content just to get to the "good stuff".

Not saying that solves all. The game could still suck by level 30, and I have as much chance of getting bored with sameness as I did in EQlive and EQ2, since the three are very similar.

[Mesozoic]

PvP works in Planetside because everyone logs in with the simple understanding of what they're trying to accomplish:  destroy the enemy.

WoW, and other PvE games that like to imagine they can slap a new ruleset into a server and call it PvP, end up sending a mixed message to their players about what the players are expected to accomplish.  Namely, they are asked to try to progress through PvE while at the same time always being ready to do something totally different:  PvP.  Even SB does this, where its PvE-to-advance but PvP-to-survive.   The dissonance is what causes the problem; the object of the game isn't properly defined.

Trying to quest while getting ganked isn't fun.  Its like you and your buddies get toegether to play Jenga, and then someone wants to play that Jenga version where you play while other people throw tennis balls at the stack and at your face.