Noob advice

[Johny Cee]

Okay,  so I'm in now in a Caldari Caracal cruiser doing level 2 missions.  Where should I be aiming with equipment and what not?

Right now:

High:

5 x Assault Missile Launcher I

Medium:

2 x Medium Supplemental Barrier Emitter 1
1 x Medium Neutron Saturation Injector 1
1 x 10 Mn Afterburner (thinking of replacing with Microwarpdrive)
1 x Explosion Dampening Amplifier I

Low:

Not worth mentioning.



What should I be shooting for in Caldari ships?  If I want to shield tank,  what pieces am I really missing?  Or should I be tanking in another manner?  How do I max my missile damage?

[bhodi]

You're missing "Ballistic Control System" in lows -- this increases your fire rate and missile damage. You should use 2 in a a caracal. When you have the skills, you may want to replace those assualt launchers with heavy launchers (they fire anti-cruiser missiles but do little damage to frigates -- so you may want to fit one or two for the cruisers in your mission). Cruisers can be identified by the larger red crosses. The larger the cross, the bigger the ship.

In the mids, you should have shield extenders, as many as will fit due to powergrid limitations and an invulnerability field if you can fit it as well. Active hardeners like your explosion dampening amplifier are good as well, but aren't really necessary for l2s and you may have capacitor trouble.

Forget the microwarp drive, they don't work in 'deadspace' which is where a lot of your missions take place in. Afterburner is all you get pretty much.

[Simond]

And your next PvE goal should be training up for a Drake (for L3s), and then a Raven (for L4s). They'll both share a lot of skills (shield skills, missile support skills) with what you're flying already.

[IainC]

Traina good spread of fitting skills. Stuff like Electronics (more CPU), Engineering (more powergrid), Energy Management (more capacitor) Weapons Upgrades (less CPU cost to weapons fit) and so on. A useful thing is to mooch through the skill browser in Evemon and check out the 'show me what this skill enables' option. A lot of skills that don't themselves seem to do much enable very useful kit or advanced skills.

Aiming for a cruiser is fine, just fill out a good spread of skills so you don't get into a ship you can't fit properly. You're better off in a well fitted frigate than a badly fitted cruiser mostly. T2 frigates are a nice target to aim for in the medium long term but don't expect to be piloting an interceptor or an AF with any degree of proficiency before you've filled out a lot of baseline skills first. The pre-reqs for those ships are pretty hefty but they are only half the story. If you can't fit t2 guns/launchers and t2 tank mods then you should probably stick to cheaper ships until you can.

You should be able to do any L1 mission and most L2 missions in a good frigate. A cruiser will make your life easier if you can fit it, otherwise it's just a way to lose money faster.

[ajax34i]

I'm fitting the following:

High:  4 standard missile, 1 heavy missile (malkuth ones - cheap, yet less CPU needed)
Med:  EM and Thermal shield hardeners, 3 large shield extenders (also named ones, the cheaper ones, also for less CPU)
Low:  I've opted for shield power relay x2 to regen my shields somewhat

That brings me to something like 8500 shields, hardened to 50% resists, and with good enough regen for L2 missions (and if they go too low I just warp out).  The DPS is crap but I can sit there and fling missiles till they die even if it takes a little longer.

EDIT:  cruiser just sits there.  I bookmark the loot and come back with an afterburned, cargo expanded, 3 salvager and 1 tractor Kestrel, for the loot.

[lac]

1 x 10 Mn Afterburner (thinking of replacing with Microwarpdrive)

You can't use a mwd in missions.

If I recall correctly, you were the guy who kept getting armor damage in level 2 mission while fitting 3 med shield extenders and a booster. If thats the case, you are taking way too much damage for a level 2 mission. Maybe you are aggroing too many groups at once?

[Slayerik]

Dont forget Energy Systems Operation. Cap recharge rate is basically huge for anything you do.

Its always good to work skills that help any ship you fly. Navigation, engineering, electronics...all should receive some degree of love. Get everything you can to at least three for the best bang for your time/buck.

Learning skills are no fun, but getting the normal ones to 4 and then the advanced up to 3 will help you out big time.

[Johny Cee]

Dont forget Energy Systems Operation. Cap recharge rate is basically huge for anything you do.

Its always good to work skills that help any ship you fly. Navigation, engineering, electronics...all should receive some degree of love. Get everything you can to at least three for the best bang for your time/buck.

Learning skills are no fun, but getting the normal ones to 4 and then the advanced up to 3 will help you out big time.

I'm already training up most things to at least level 3.  I have the basic learning stuff to level 3 or 4,  and I'm getting most of my important active/passive skills up to level 3 before I grind out the next couple of learning levels. 

1 x 10 Mn Afterburner (thinking of replacing with Microwarpdrive)

You can't use a mwd in missions.

If I recall correctly, you were the guy who kept getting armor damage in level 2 mission while fitting 3 med shield extenders and a booster. If thats the case, you are taking way too much damage for a level 2 mission. Maybe you are aggroing too many groups at once?

That wasn't me.  I've been using the "run away and keep mobs at 20km while lobbing missiles behind me" strategy.  I've only been down through shields to armor twice,  when I got a bit mobbed on a mission (wasn't paying attention to distance).

You're missing "Ballistic Control System" in lows -- this increases your fire rate and missile damage. You should use 2 in a a caracal. When you have the skills, you may want to replace those assualt launchers with heavy launchers (they fire anti-cruiser missiles but do little damage to frigates -- so you may want to fit one or two for the cruisers in your mission). Cruisers can be identified by the larger red crosses. The larger the cross, the bigger the ship.

In the mids, you should have shield extenders, as many as will fit due to powergrid limitations and an invulnerability field if you can fit it as well. Active hardeners like your explosion dampening amplifier are good as well, but aren't really necessary for l2s and you may have capacitor trouble.

Forget the microwarp drive, they don't work in 'deadspace' which is where a lot of your missions take place in. Afterburner is all you get pretty much.

Ballistic Control Systems was a great call.  I had completely missed that module,  and that should really help out the damage.  Good Afterburner info,  didn't realize I couldn't use MWD in deadspace.

Medium Supplemental Barrier Emitter is a Medium Shield Extender
Explosion Dampening etc is a passive resist module,  and I was under the impression that the Invuln. modules were active modules?


Is shield booster plus 2 shield extender and passive resist buffer greater or lesser than shit ton of extenders and active hardeners? 


I really should fit out a salvage boat.  What's the most (lowbie friendly) way to move your various ships to the station you're running missions out of,  since cargo cap is so limited on the smaller ships?  Do I just need to train and buy some sort of freighter to haul my shit around?

Edit:  I'll use one heavy missile launcher.  Right now,  the L2s are still giving me a huge amount of fighter/frigate mobs to chew through,  and a relatively small amount of larger mobs.

[Slayerik]

You should always have an alt with at least Level 1 (Race Type) Industrial for moving/buying bulk.

[bhodi]

EFT will tell you specifically if a booster and passive is better than an active hardener. I suspect the active hardener is better.

In general, you always want one hardener of some sort, two are okay, and 3 are almost always a waste due to stacking penalties. A single invunerability field gives you a nice large boost to every single resist, so it's pretty flexibile in terms of missions. It is active, and you'll want to stick with actives until you actually get the passive skills to level 3 or so, or simply you can go with more shield with a shield extender/booster instead.

Passives kind of suck without heavy skills in them, because they contribute to the stacking penalty but don't give you a lot of resists in return. Active hardeners harden a specific amount (while active) and so I pretty much prefer them.

I zoomed through a caracal pretty fast and right into a drake, and I used 1 AB, 2 LSE, 1 invuln field, 1 active kinetic hardener. You can replace that invuln field with another type of hardener (probably thermal) depending on what missions you were running, or you can be lazy like me and get lesser across the board resists. Either way, I played like you and never got into armor so I wasn't overly concerned. You tend to kill stuff too fast to matter. It's not until you get into l3s and especially l4s that you are concerned about being able to tank. My emphasis is on DPS, because I can always warp out to recharge shields.

As for the hauler, there's not much I can tell you. You need one. The only question is which one to pick; the skillbooks are 450k a piece. I spent 4 or 5 days actually skilling up to fly a mamoth, which is better than caldari's badger (best T1 hauler except for the ieteron V which requires industrial V). Mammoth was a good compromise on space as it requires only indy IV, and, it gives 17km3 of space over the 11k of a badger 2 (caldari indy IV) or the 7k of a badger 1 (caldari indy 1)

The problem is that your lower level haulers that require 1 point in industrial really don't give you enough space to do much with -- with the mammoth, however, I can repackage and haul around shuttles and my salvager destroyer to easily move to a new area requiring only two trips -- one with my main ship and one with my hauler.

[Slayerik]

In like two days I got an alt into a Iteron Mk III , with 3 Cargo expander IIs in the lows. Something like 12500m3.

The Mark IV will have an additional low, so that will be like 16k. She's quite the looter now!

[Morat20]

I really should fit out a salvage boat.  What's the most (lowbie friendly) way to move your various ships to the station you're running missions out of,  since cargo cap is so limited on the smaller ships?  Do I just need to train and buy some sort of freighter to haul my shit around?

Fit a Catlyst. 8 highs -- so 4 tractors, 4 salvagers. Bookmark your mission site, go turn it in, then hop in the catylst and warp to the bookmark.

If you use cargo expander II's in the lows, you get like 800 to 900 cubic meters of cargo space. Fit a cap recharger in the mids, though -- destroyers don't have a ton of cap, and tractors and salvagers eat it up when you're running four. I think all you need is an AB after that.

I only use mine for missions with more than 40 or so hulks -- things like The Blockade or Damsel in Distress.

[Hoax]

You should always have an alt with at least Level 1 (Race Type) Industrial for moving/buying bulk.

PS Amarr is the most cargo indy at L1 industrial, from there the 'stower quickly starts to suck ass though.

[ajax34i]

Badger Mk 2, 13k cargo with Expander II's, good enough to fit a packaged Caracal, packaged Kestrel, and weapons/modules/ammo for them.   I usually salvage with a Kestrel instead of the destroyer because I can't fit the destroyer in the hauler, and besides, 3 salvagers is enough for me.

A set of Expanded II's is more expensive, by far, than the Badger MK 2; I usually use Expanded I's for hauling junk / minerals around to sell between missions.  But otherwise, for a combat character like me, the Badger MK 2 is good enough and serves me well.

EDIT:  Oh yeah, and I felt the need to roam and haul my ships around because I wanted to give myself a way out of negative Gallente faction.  Figured I'd do Caldari missions, but before that, I made buddies with a Gallente Navy agent, so that even if my Gallente faction goes to crap, I can still go to my buddy and do L2 missions to repair my faction, if ever needed.

[Murgos]

Is shield booster plus 2 shield extender and passive resist buffer greater or lesser than shit ton of extenders and active hardeners? 

Yeah, let's talk cruiser tanking philosophy for a bit.  Just a bit of thinking out loud here.

Technically adding 10% resists is equivalent to having 10% more armor or shields.  Right?   I.e. 100 pts with 10% resist means that the baddy has to do 110 pts of damage.  This is an equivalence, so that means that 10% more armor = 10% more resists.  I'm not going to use real numbers here because it's just easier if I round things and I am going to talk armor because that is what I am more familiar with.

So, easy, low hanging fruit, gains to tankability are, I think, to initially add as much armor as possible.  For example adding 1600mm plate to my Vexor moved me from ~1500 pts of armor to ~5500 or the equivalent of having, across the board ~72% resists on 1500 armor.  The reason why this is an important distinction is that it results from 1 slot.  I know of no other 1 slot addition that has this kind of effect.  So, always add as much armor as you can fit if you only have 1 slot to dedicate to tanking.

Adding more armor is a diminishing returns though, if I could add another 1600mm plate (which I can't) my armor would go from ~5500 to ~9500, I would then have the equivalent of 84% resists, a < 12% gain.  In reality though I would be pushing it to add another 800mm which translates to only about 8% more.

So, what's better?  An EANM in the second slot dedicated to tanking or more armor?

An EANM adds 15% resists across the board, right?  Not really, it subtracts 15% of the remaining resist hole, i.e. if you have 60% base resist to EM then with an EANM mounted you will have 60% + (40 *.15) or 6% for 66% total, which doesn't sound like much.  However, if you look at explosive resists (base 10%) than an EANM adds 10% + (90 * .15) or 13.5% for 23.5% total, which sounds like a lot so let's examine this a little further.

So what's better for the EM damage?  66% resists on 5500 armor or 60% resists on 9500?  So 5500/(1 - .66) = 16,176 and 9500/(1 - .6) = 23750 (18,750 for the 800mm plate or even 16,250 for 400mm plate, so a second 400mm plate is marginally better than an EANM for a second slot mod for tanking).

So what about on the Exp resists (base 10%)?  Which is better more armor or more resists?  i.e. 23.5% on 5500 or 10 on 9500?  So 5500/(1 - .223) = 7078 and 9500/(1-.1) = 10,555 (8333 for 800mm and 7222 for 400mm, so, again, a 400mm plate is better than an EANM for your second tank mod).

And it should follow that kin and therm resists are somewhere between the two extremes.

To me this means that, if you have the cap for it, more armor, at least 400mm, is better than an EANM for a (non-Maller) CRUISER with relatively low starting armor.  However, 35% passive type specific resists are better than all but 1600mm plate even on the already highly resistant EM resists and 50% active plates are better in all cases, though I will leave that math as an exercise to the reader.  :-D

This holds true, though to a lesser degree, for armor tanking BS type ships (again ignoring the Amarr innate resist model).  I do realize that this doesn't work the same way for shield tanks which are more slot limited (it takes 2 large extenders to add as much as 1 1600mm plate but I have a feeling that the natural healing rate of shields plays a big part in making up the difference).

My next questions is, "So which makes better use of a repper?  More armor or more resists? And does size really matter?"

[Morat20]

My next questions is, "So which makes better use of a repper?  More armor or more resists? And does size really matter?"

Resists make better use of a repper. It's damage not being done, thus damage not having to be repaired. You do 100 points of 100% Kinetic damage to my 0 resists 1600mm plate, I take 100 points of damage that have to be repped. You do 100 points of 100% kinetic to my 30% resistant plate, I'm only having to rep 70ish (or however it's calculated).

My typical rule of thumb is to add a single big plate as long as the "big plate" does more than the stuff that's like "10% bonus to armor", and EANM to boost resists across the board. That gives me a bigger damage buffer PLUS I don't take as much damage, meaning I've got the best of both worlds. I run damage controls now (which is a godsend if you're in structure and not bad in armor) but would probably swap that for rat-specific plate or harderners if I was having troubles. I prefer a passive or very-low cost active tank.

But I'm fitting cruisers and battlecruiser, but I think the "damage not done is better than damage done" is always a bit better, simply because you have to rep less to keep up with it.

[Murgos]

But I'm fitting cruisers and battlecruiser, but I think the "damage not done is better than damage done" is always a bit better, simply because you have to rep less to keep up with it.

I haven't thought about it much, yet, but there is a time component to repping which makes me think it's not that simple.  What happens if the DPS is >> the amount you can repair?  I think then, obviously, more armor is better.  If you can repair 30 pts/sec and you have 30% resists and they can do 100 dps then you are falling behind at a rate of 40 pts/sec.  It's linear so 110 dps means you fall behind at 50 pts a second and so on so the size of your tank does matter once your ability to repair is saturated.

There is a threshold there that is dependent on dps - resists - repair.  If you are under that threshold then you are indestructible, if you are over that then you are dependent on the size of your tank.  So, I think that it is unarguable that a repper is needed regardless of circumstance (if you are webbed and scrammed and taking 1 damage a minute without a repper you are still going to die, just very slowly).  My question really should be that for what value of resist and armor, given limitations to cap and slot availability, give you the MOST time and should you fit the largest repper you can even at the expense of tank or resists?  What about more than 1 repper?

[IainC]

The big problem with plate is that it takes a huge chunk out of your powergrid. If you're fitting something with a lot of hi-slots like a BC or a BS then you may have problems filling them all effectively if you have some thick plate fitted. Guns can be nice to have too.

Two reppers are a common fit. Either two of the size down to reduce fitting overheads (i.e. mediums on a BS) or two full size ones to get a ferocious tank (common on logistics ships). You get exactly the same amount of repair over time (53.3hp/s base) for a lower cap use, lower PG and CPU use. The downside of course is that you need two lows instead of one.

When tanking, resists nearly always trump raw HPs in most situations for armour tanking. The sole exception to this is really for burst damage. However, for shield tanking then raw HPs are better. The reason for this is because shields recharge over time and the recharge rate is not a fixed amount of HP/s like an armour repper would give, but is a set amount of time for a full regen. This means that if you increase the amount of shields that you have, you'll get more back per tick. Passive shield tanking is borderline overpowered.

I'd really only fit plate to a hauler because the chance of it being primaried and taking a lot of burst damage is very high. For anything else I'd fit for a fight and put resistance mods and DCUs for the most part.  If I had a spare low-slot on a bigger ship then I'd go for regenerative plate to get the HP bonus of plate without the PG cost and mass addition.

[Akkori]

I just read somewhere that adding points to shields is good in that your recharge time is set, no matter how many points you have. So if your shield strength is 100, and your recharge time is 100 seconds, you get 1 per second. If you added 100 pts for a total of 200, it would be recharged at *2* points per second.

[Grand Design]

This is absolutely correct and something that should be taken advantage of.  For a shield tank, it applies to the shield regen and for an armor tank the cap regen.  So it makes sense to get max hps if you are a shield tank, but for armor, you really only care about how much you can repair and how long you can sustain the tank with the capacitor.  Adding more hps to an armor tank just means you have that much more to heal at the same rate.  Adding cap means that you can sustain the tank longer - indefinitely if you do the math right.

[ajax34i]

your recharge time is set, no matter how many points you have.

Yup, that is correct, same for capacitor (like GD said).

Things become complicated due to the stacking penalties (two or more modules of the same type giving reduced benefits), and ships and skills are usually balanced so that if you have good support skills (Engineering, Electronics, etc), it's sometimes possible to get over some threshhold where you can suddenly over-size a shield or a plate or something (but not always, and you sometimes have to give up firepower to do it).

In terms of defense, the "true hitpoints" of the ship matter when you're looking to survive alpha strikes (someone looking to gank you in 1 shot).  And how much you can repair (plus resists) figure into whether or not someone can "break your tank" (can they do more DPS than your ability to repair?). 

Also, one way to break an active shield tank or armor tank is to drain the capacitor, thereby turning off their repairer / booster plus perhaps the hardeners.  In theory.

[IainC]

I just read somewhere that adding points to shields is good in that your recharge time is set, no matter how many points you have. So if your shield strength is 100, and your recharge time is 100 seconds, you get 1 per second. If you added 100 pts for a total of 200, it would be recharged at *2* points per second.

In the post above yours probably....

[Morat20]

I'm about to move to L3's in a Myrmidion. I want to know if this setup works:

Lows:
1600mm Nano plate.
Damage Control
2xEANM 2
T2 Medium Armor Rep
Power Diagnostic System

Med:
10MN AB
Fixed Parallel Link Capcitor
Medium Shield Booster (just for regenning shield rapidly after a wave, NOT for tanking)
Omni-directional Tracking Link
Drone Navigation Computer

Highs:
2x250 Railgun I's with AM charges
1xMedium Nos
2xSalvager
1xSmall Tractor

Without nos -- if the AB is off, I can run the guns, the repper, and the the damage controls for almost 40 minutes. With the Nos on, I can run the AB and the tank indefineatly.

Damage wise, I'm looking at 210 DPS from 5xHammerhead IIs and 154 from the guns. Something like almost 10k armor, resists at 75% (EM) to 61% (thermal, kinetic) and 46% (explosive). 5k shileds and 5k structure. I have a targetting range of about 67km.

I don't seem to gain anything by removing an EANM and replacing it with another repper (I actually lose about 3k effective HP). I could ditch the Medium Shield booster -- but replace it with what? I can fit a large shield extender on there and gain another 4k or so effective HP (better than an invulnerability field, in my mind -- and no cap). I can't really think of another decent mid-slot for a drone mission runner. Any ideas?

[IainC]

You could fit a sensor booster. You don't really need ewar for PvE, but being able to lock the enemy faster and the extra lock range is always handy. A target painter is another decent choice - you'll increase your actual DPS by a lot with one.

[Morat20]

You could fit a sensor booster. You don't really need ewar for PvE, but being able to lock the enemy faster and the extra lock range is always handy. A target painter is another decent choice - you'll increase your actual DPS by a lot with one.

I think I'm replacing the Drone Navigation computer with a Large Shield Extender to begin with. I might replace the omni-directional link with a sensor booster. What sort of things am I going to be facing in L3's?

[Ratadm]

You might consider replacing dc, eanm's and pds with 3 mission specific hardners and a cpr.  Also I would get rid of the shield stuff in the mids and use cap rechargers if you're having any trouble with cap.  I wouldn't bother with shield booster even for just regening the shield out of combat it's kind of a waste of a slot.

[Morat20]

You might consider replacing dc, eanm's and pds with 3 mission specific hardners and a cpr.  Also I would get rid of the shield stuff in the mids and use cap rechargers if you're having any trouble with cap.  I wouldn't bother with shield booster even for just regening the shield out of combat it's kind of a waste of a slot.

I thought about the hardeners but I was under the impression that L3's really didn't need them, and it seems like a gigantic hassle. I'm more worried about whether my resists are high enough for a single T2 Medium repper to keep up with it.

I've already got a cap recharger slotted (Fixed-parallel link-cap is a recharger) and I can run the tank for almost 40 minutes with no NOS (as long as the AB is off), so cap really isn't a problem. That just leaves me with a single empty mid-slot and I figured a large shield extender gives me another 4k of HPs and faster shield regen times -- not much else fo rme to slot there.

I'm more worried about whether L3's introduce a lot of alpha damage or a lot of EWAR stuff. I really don't want to lose a Myrmidion on my first mission. I can't fit a large armor repper (I could fit two mediums) -- I'm just worried about whether my tank can keep up with the damage.

[IainC]

In L3s you're going to be facing cruisers and destroyers/interceptors with BCs as boss mobs. OTTOMH I can't think of any L3 missions that throw BSs at you.

[Morat20]

In L3s you're going to be facing cruisers and destroyers/interceptors with BCs as boss mobs. OTTOMH I can't think of any L3 missions that throw BSs at you.

Oh. Then I think I'll be okay, especially once I get Heavy Drones to V and can run 2/2/1 (My drone damage spikes up a LOT when I can run T2 heavies. Right now, my best is 5 Medium 2s).

Right now the focus is Covert Ops ships (3 days for Electronics Upgrade V!).

[lac]

The only BS you'll ever meet is in the extravaganza bonus room I think.

[IainC]

Oh. Then I think I'll be okay, especially once I get Heavy Drones to V and can run 2/2/1 (My drone damage spikes up a LOT when I can run T2 heavies. Right now, my best is 5 Medium 2s).

Right now the focus is Covert Ops ships (3 days for Electronics Upgrade V!).

For level 3s I'd stick to Hammerhead IIs. Heavy drones will have a problem hitting the faster frigates and T2 medium drones will still violate BCs in no time. Myrmidons don't have the bandwidth to run heavy drones properly.

[Morat20]

The only BS you'll ever meet is in the extravaganza bonus room I think.

By itself? Because I'm pretty sure it'd take forever for 5 medium drones (even mine) to chew down a BS, and I wouldn't like to try with other ships pounding on me. If it's just cruisers with BC bosses, I think I'm okay. I handle cruiser-sized rats just fine in a Vex, even multiples, and it only takes a few shots for my Hammerheads to pop them.

IainC: A Myrmidion can run 2/2/1 (just barely) but I think you're right. Probably better just to pack an extra wave of lights and mediums (huge drone bay!), since those bloody things do get aggro at times (for some reason, drones piss off rats from further away than I do).

[bhodi]

It's a bonus room; it's not part of the normal mission, the mission is complete the room before. I've never actually gone into the bonus room, because it requires you loot a tag off of a mob, and generally by time I have the tag I'm already in my salvager with the mission complete.

[lac]

Its not by itself, there are some towers and smaller ships. The total dps of the ships in the room is about 3 times that of the rest of the mission and everything aggro's at the same time.
There is a chance for faction loot from one of the buildings I think.

[Morat20]

Its not by itself, there are some towers and smaller ships. The total dps of the ships in the room is about 3 times that of the rest of the mission and everything aggro's at the same time.
There is a chance for faction loot from one of the buildings I think.

Any webbers, warp disrupters, anything like that? I'd probably try it if I had a good chance of warping out if things got bad.

Did one 3-part L3's last night, and netted about 3 million in bounties and rewards and about 10+ million in loot. Was fun, although I might try replacing one of my EANM 2's with a rat-specific hardener as suggested. Nothing even got 1/2 through my armor, but if I hit another wave with shields low then my repper couldn't keep up with damage until I kllled a few. (The worst was hitting 4 merc commanders at once -- 110k bounties, freakin' missiles from hell, and some nasty guns.

Should replay my Myrmidion, insurance, and fittings in a few days at most.