Noob advice

[IainC]

Its not by itself, there are some towers and smaller ships. The total dps of the ships in the room is about 3 times that of the rest of the mission and everything aggro's at the same time.
There is a chance for faction loot from one of the buildings I think.

Any webbers, warp disrupters, anything like that? I'd probably try it if I had a good chance of warping out if things got bad.

Did one 3-part L3's last night, and netted about 3 million in bounties and rewards and about 10+ million in loot. Was fun, although I might try replacing one of my EANM 2's with a rat-specific hardener as suggested. Nothing even got 1/2 through my armor, but if I hit another wave with shields low then my repper couldn't keep up with damage until I kllled a few. (The worst was hitting 4 merc commanders at once -- 110k bounties, freakin' missiles from hell, and some nasty guns.

Should replay my Myrmidion, insurance, and fittings in a few days at most.

I did that mission a couple of dozen times easily and never once saw faction loot from the battlestation. It's only really worth it for the bounties and the additional salvage chances. Bear in mind that the gatepass is consumed and those suckers are a few million a time. I checked the mission guides and apparently there are 3 BSs, some sentries and about 6 web/scramblers in the room - linky.

The incoming DPS is pretty savage. Even if you aren't warp scrambled you may be overwhelmed before you can align and warp out unless you have a hella tank going on.

Mercs are always bad news because they do all four damage types so the DPS getting past your rat specific hardeners can be crazy high.

[lac]

Bear in mind that the gatepass is consumed and those suckers are a few million a time

It used to be like that but I did a level 3 a couple of days ago and the pass wasn't consumed any more, it was also very cheap and available all over the region. I don't know if it changed for the level 4's.

[FatuousTwat]

Right now for level 3s I run a Drake fitted like this:

Hi =
7x named Heavy Missile Launchers
1x small energy neut (can't really think of what else to put there, maybe a drone link aug?)

Med =
2x Large shield extenders II
2x EM resistance amp II
1x Kinetic resistance amp II
1x Thermal resistance amp II

Low =
1x bcs
3x named shield power relays

Gives me almost 12k shields with 66.1% em 57.% thermal 68.3% kinetic 64% explosive resistances, with 552 second shield repair time. DPS is horrible though, only 158, and that includes decent drone skills. Maybe I should switch out one of the spr's to another bcs?

[Morat20]

I have a question regarding EWAR drones -- particularly ECM Drones -- and PvP.

Say I'm flying something with a decent dronebay (enough to hold and launch 5 drones) -- would it be worth it to fly a mix of 4/1 damage/ECM, or even 3/2 damage/ECM? I don't know how to calculate the numbers on breaking targetting with one or multiple drones.

I'm thinking in very small PvP, where things might be close, that 1 or 2 ECM drones might keep breaking a lock and doing damage. (Plus, frankly, protecting my drones from being shot at too).

[Viin]

Probably not, as the drones have very few points on them. The two most helpful will be the scrambler and warp disruptor drones, but they are big (only come in heavy size I think) and take a few skills. And even then I think you need at least two, but it's been awhile since I've looked at them.

I considered doing a warp and scrambler drone (1 each) for solo ganking but it didn't seem to pan out when I started planning it.

[dwindlehop]

5x Medium ECM drones can seriously disrupt the DPS of a cruiser. You calculate the chance per drone by taking jam strength/sensor strength. I believe a Hurricane has a sensor strength of 16 and a medium ECM drone has  jam strength of 1.5. Chance for an ECM drone to jam a Hurricane is 1.5/16=9.3%. The chance five drones will successfully jam a Hurricane is 1-(1-1.5/16)^5=39%, which is a pretty serious damage reduction especially after you take time to lock into account. I like ECM drones when your turrets pump out a lot of DPS. I have never tried or heard of someone trying a mix of damage and ECM, but I suppose it depends upon your gang composition and targets.

[IainC]

If you don't need the drones for DPS then target painter drones will massively boost the damage that everyone does to a target. Other ewar shoudl probably be shipborne as the drone stats aren't all that hot.

[Morat20]

If you don't need the drones for DPS then target painter drones will massively boost the damage that everyone does to a target. Other ewar shoudl probably be shipborne as the drone stats aren't all that hot.

I've just heard the ECM drones -- especially the medium and heavy ones -- are a really good choice for ECM right now, but I didn't really get why. (Something to do with jamming mechanics and some changes CCP made awhile back). There's at least some people calling for a nerf of them.

I'm still playing with possible support loadouts for a Vex in gang PvP. 5 mediums, 5 lights, 5 medium ECM, 5 warriors? (I think that's 150 m3).

[dwindlehop]

For turrets, webs boost damage much more than paint. For missiles, paint is usually (but not always) better than webs. I suppose it is relatively straightforward to decide whether paint is going to boost your gang dps more than scout drones. Deciding between ECM and dps is more difficult. My rule of thumb is as gang size increases, you should leave ECM to the specialized ships. But the smaller the gang, the more a spare dronebay or midslot of EW can help.

Base multispec strength was reduced, but base ECM drone strength was not. I think that's the main thrust of the whines. However, EW drones trade off dps for hostile dps mitigation, and so I think they are pretty well balanced.

[Slayerik]

I'm personally of the school 'If I make them die fast I don't have to worry about tanking them'. Thus you pretty much always see me with 5 Hammerhead II's when I have a 50m3 bandwidth.

Not to say ECM drones aren't good, I just like pumping out stupid amounts of damage.

[Morat20]

For turrets, webs boost damage much more than paint. For missiles, paint is usually (but not always) better than webs. I suppose it is relatively straightforward to decide whether paint is going to boost your gang dps more than scout drones. Deciding between ECM and dps is more difficult. My rule of thumb is as gang size increases, you should leave ECM to the specialized ships. But the smaller the gang, the more a spare dronebay or midslot of EW can help.

Base multispec strength was reduced, but base ECM drone strength was not. I think that's the main thrust of the whines. However, EW drones trade off dps for hostile dps mitigation, and so I think they are pretty well balanced.

That makes sense. Well, I don't see any reason I can't carry a mixed loadout on a PvP Vex. It's got the capacity (150 m3) to carry both a DPS loadout and an ECM loadout, and still carry a set of spare scouts. Might as well have the flexibility, and launch what the situation calls for.

[Murgos]

I am 100% certain that Vex has a 100m^3 drone bay.

[IainC]

I am 100% certain that Vex has a 100m^3 drone bay.

It does.

The eve-o database has it at 75m3 but I just checked mine and it's 100m3. I believe it was tweaked in the Trinity patch.

[Morat20]

I am 100% certain that Vex has a 100m^3 drone bay.

Dangit, I was thinking of the Myrmidion -- same bandwidth as the Vex, much larger bay. I'm getting my own ships confused.

[Murgos]

It's worse that a couple of the Gallente ships have variable size drone bays that depend on skill levels (Ishkur and Eos, I think).

[Morat20]

It's worse that a couple of the Gallente ships have variable size drone bays that depend on skill levels (Ishkur and Eos, I think).

Yeah -- I want to fly both. :) The Ishkur (or is it Ishtar? It's the HAC) is +50 m3 per level of HAC, on top of the drone and armor rep bonus from BC's. It's got a 125 bandwitdh, so can control 5 heavies -- and starts with a 150 m3 drone bay. So with 4/5 you're up to Domi-sized drone bay, which is evil from a HAC.

(Yes, that's the fucking ship that was pwning me. THe more I read about it, the more droolworthy it is).

[Slayerik]

Ishtar is full of win.

[Llyse]

I've just resubbed after a long hiatus, doing my storyline like a good rookie for my incredibly valuable +1 implant.

1st question

What's the quickest way to make money to pay for skillbooks as a noob with frigate?

Missions? low sec ratting?

2nd question

What's this nano HAC ships people are talking about?

Are these like T2.5 ships?

3rd question

What's the buddy program about? is that free eve time for a mate if they referred you and you paid for a sub?

Thanks a lot guys for making Eve sound so interesting again

[Der Helm]

1st answer

Ask in F13, some people are filthy rich and will hook you up, also, missions.

2nd answer

I think that's the minmatar heavy assault cruiser ? A Vagabond if I am not mistaken. Quite a lot of training to fly one of those.

3rd answer

No idea.

[Johny Cee]

Well.

Had a bad mission or something,  managed to get my Caracal blown up.  That's a Good Thing (TM) because it forced me to look at the mods I was using again.

Went with 2 Large Shield Extenders and a therm and kinetic passive resist mods,  will maybe switch up to hardeners when I've trained them.  Much larger amount of shield,  regens quickly (especially with a shield regen mod in lows).

Got off my ass and got my salvager up and running as well.  Using a Cormorant, so I don't need to mess around with training up other races frigates/destroyers quite yet.

[ajax34i]

Nano HACs refer to a specific way to fit a Heavy Attack Cruiser (a Tech 2 version of a cruiser, they usually have good resistances to damage on their base armor/shields, so once you add a few resistance modules on top of that, you're almost invulnerable).  Specifically, they fit nanofiber modules in the low slots to make the ship very agile; add a microwarp drive and you can zoom zoom with what is otherwise a heavy slow ship.

[Llyse]

Thanks for the rapid response guys!

I checked out Eve Fitting Tool and realised nanofibers don't give speed and agility anymore haha.

Does the Trinity client do anything besides provide new skins?

Is it more hardware resource intensive?

Thanks again guys!

See you tonight hopefully!

[dwindlehop]

I'm personally of the school 'If I make them die fast I don't have to worry about tanking them'. Thus you pretty much always see me with 5 Hammerhead II's when I have a 50m3 bandwidth.

Not to say ECM drones aren't good, I just like pumping out stupid amounts of damage.

Dps tanks are the best tanks.

Honestly, since the HP boost in Rev1 HACs feel awful fragile compared to BS. A nano HAC is even more fragile because you must sacrifice tank for speed. HACs are not invulnerable, but they are definitely among the most fun ships to fly in Eve. Vagabond is the fastest HAC and a natural for speed fits, but Ishtar, Zealot, and even the Deimos or Cerebus have been known to get some overdrives and polycarbonate engine housings slapped on them. I once got dusted by a nano Vulture a year ago, even. Recons are also often speed fit, as they can't tank very well.

Trinity client repartitions the UI work, moving more of the load onto the graphics card. This is generally a good thing, performance wise. I think the responsiveness is improved on quality hardware, but I can't test it myself, being a Linux player (now supported after all these years).

I think salvaging is the best way to earn money as a new player. Some possible targets: other people's rats, other people's highsec wrecks, your dead enemies.

Edit: fo grammarz

[dwindlehop]

Actually, let me be a bit more clear on the Premium Graphics client. It has new higher polygon count models for station exteriors and ships in addition to better textures and shaders. The graphics pipeline is also reworked so the UI transparency effects are rendered on your graphics hardware. It has options to run with HDR bloom or high quality shadows.

Currently, I believe that's all it does. No new effects, no new planets, no new station interiors, no new gameplay. But teh shiniez, oh, teh shiniez!

[Slayerik]

Ask in f13 for sure about some starter cash. 10 mil to an established player isnt much (half hour of NPCing).

Basically, nano fitting ships comes down to putting on 60 million isk rigs called polycarbons (basically nanofibers but better). There are cheaper ones called auxilary thrusters, but they are pretty meh.

Nanofibers do not increase speed UNLESS YOU HAVE YOUR MWD on. Most nano ships fit 2-3 Overdrive IIs as well as a nano and even an Inertia Stabilzer II (for insta warp). I'm currently running a nano rail Deimos, I only hit speeds of like 3500m/s but it is enough to disengage and warp off with the insta warp (I have a thin tank). The plus side is my damage output is very strong, in my nano gangs I am always top or near top in an even start gank.

Nano is all about being able to pick your fights, and the ability to fight two to one odds by picking off dumbasses that seperate from the blob.

[ajax34i]

Nano is all about being able to pick your fights...

... while using obscene damage, short range weapons (autocannons, blasters, pulse lasers, smartbombs), right?

[nurtsi]

Don't nano ships suck hard when facing a missile ship like the Raven? With the MWD multiplying your signature radius missiles & torpedoes will murder you.

[Slayerik]

The key to the way I use nano is keep them warp scrammed while orbiting at like 20km. My warp disruptor works from 24, so the orbit holds fine. Then I pick em apart with my high damage rails and Hammerhead IIs. My speed allows me to hold the orbit.

Nano ishtars basically do the same thing, but the drones do the raping. Getting up close is generally a bad idea, as normal people will be able to out tank you , web you, and own your face.

About the raven, no they dont. Pure speed makes the missiles have a hard time damaging you. (depends on their skills though, and T2 missiles and what not)

[dwindlehop]

A lot of speed fits don't engage with MWD on in orbit because missile and drones tracking exceeds the tracking of your turrets. You take essentially zero damage if you go faster than 4.5kms (t2 heavy missiles), 6.2kms (light missiles), or 7kms (t2 light missiles +warrior II's). Destroyers can still hit you pretty well to around 8-9 km/s transversal velocity. Mostly you use your speed to escape, not to tank. Torpedoes are really easy to outrun, though.

My number one escape method is reapproaching the gate and jumping through. You need to accelerate to 3-4km/s in a couple seconds to reapproach with hostile Huginns on the gate. 2km/s is sufficient speed to get you back to the gate without sensor boosted webs on you. I haven't tried this yet versus hostile Hyenas.

The other important factor in escaping is staying out of web range, for which you will need to be faster than the other guy. Most poorly skilled interceptor pilots hit 4.5km/s. Once you're out of web range, you can burn out of scram range any time and then instawarp like Slayerik says.

[Hoax]

questions:

How to make isk is a tough choice, an easy diku-mindset way would be to grind missions, which I actually endorse to a point.  You might as well work up standing with a few corps because for our empire wardec purposes it helps to have L3 agents who will track other players for you so we can gank em.  So yeah working up to L3 with a few corps is a goal that while grindy helps the pewpew in empire so even I'm doing it.

Salvaging has been well spoken of by lots of people, I wont get into full details but if nobody else is I'm doing missions and leaving all the wrecks/loot beceause I'm lazy and I just want the standing for the aforementioned locator agents.  I would enjoy the opportunity to give free isk to other f13'ers so if people have small wallets and can salvage evemail me (Elseix) and I'll start trying to give you bookmarks to wreck laden missions.

Mining is an option that not many take part in but its there.  You can always do some afk mining every time you log off to help supplement income.  Not helpful beyond the early newb days though.

I've heard people mention and I remember when you used to be able to take courrier contracts to fly things from jita to elsewhere for decent isk.  Might be worth looking into.

I suggest starting with missions and when that gets boring, just ask around for some additional ideas.  The eve-online forum is actually a pretty decent place to ask some questions in the new player board, market board, etc.

re: Nano Ships.
Don't worry your little head about those yet. 

re: Buddy Program.
No idea, someone want to clarify this, because I'm still trying to get some other people to come play if I can give them more time free then the 14-day trial I'd like to know about it.

[dwindlehop]

If you get your trial through Steam it's a 21 day free trial.

[Murgos]

questions:

How to make isk is a tough choice, an easy diku-mindset way would be to grind missions, which I actually endorse to a point. 

Did a relatively easy (in a vexor anyway) L2 mission last night that net me about 5 mil all told between rewards (~800k), salvage (~2M), lewts(~1.5M) and bounties(~700k).  So, yeah, missioning can net pretty good rewards without a lot of effort.

The salvaging and lewt collecting was pretty tedious though.

[cevik]

If you get your trial through Steam it's a 21 day free trial.

As of 4 days ago, when I started my trial, steam still said "Eve Online - Coming Soon".

[Akkori]

I was going to do a few of the courier jobs, a few were listed at 10 million for about 12 jumps... and then I noticed that you needed a 1k+ cargo space, and I was bummed.

[Kitsune]

So as long as there's noob talk going on, somebody talk about aligning.  More precisely, aligning while doing something else.  I've seen people talking about how they were aligned while in the middle of combat, and a fuse pops in my brain whenever they do.  Whenever I'm in a fight, I'm usually going --> that way as fast as my afterburners can take me, orbiting my target, etc.  In order to be in the fight in the first place, I have to be moving all over space to acquire and keep targets.  If I could just park myself in alignment with something and my targets would obligingly come into range and impale themselves on my lasers, that'd be just great and all, but I don't see that as being too likely.

So, how do you pull off both keeping yourself in a fight and being aligned to warp if it goes south?