WAR - another newsletter - more RvR, less sport PvP

[Nebu]

Buffs shouild be group or AoE, not just self. Then you can spread different buffs across skills/classes.

I disagree.  Buffs are the bane of balancing games.  If a class performs better with a buff, then allow them to cast it on themself.  Hell, I think games would be better with only debuffs.  Why?  BUFFING PEOPLE ISN'T FUN.  EVAR!

[tmp]

I don't see the problem.  The whole point of counters to give you a substantial advantage. Obviously, playtesting and balancing is required so that some anti`s aren't vastly more powerful than others.

Well that's the very problem i raised and which you are not seeiing -- the complexity of balancing the (large) number of such counter-skills. I mean, the devs can rarely achieve reasonable balance for just the class skills alone. Now add the extra layer of counter-skills to that, and try to maintain balance to the whole thing, hopefully without slipping into the route of whack-a-mole sort of practice where overpowered abilites are "kept in check" by equally over the top counter-skills that become must-haves... i just can't help but be skeptical about how it'd work out in practice.

To say "it needs to be playtested and balanced" is like saying "it must be done right". Well, duh, the catch is nearly no one seems to know how to actually do it in practice. Although Blizzard's moneyhat factory comes close.

[tazelbain]

Fine, balancing is difficult. I'll write that down in my notes.

[Rondaror]

I love it when unreleased games talk about expansion content.  It gives me great hope for their state at release.

You can actually leave the green off of that. Pushing large features to an expansion far in advance may actually mean the developer has a clue about scheduling their resources instead of promising everything and the kitchen sink on day 1.

How about focusing time and energy on making the release a success first?  Then you can promise me the moon once I've been hooked. 

I appreciate what you're saying, but many game makers can't even deliver on day one.  Who's to say that an expansion is even warranted?  Do you think Vanguard, Earth & Beyond, or Tabula Rasa should be discussing an expansion? 

I think the statement that Skaven are in the first expansions was given to calm down the fanbois that bitched around that they are not in at release. Give them some hope and a carrot.

[Bungee]

I love it when unreleased games talk about expansion content.  It gives me great hope for their state at release.

You can actually leave the green off of that. Pushing large features to an expansion far in advance may actually mean the developer has a clue about scheduling their resources instead of promising everything and the kitchen sink on day 1.

How about focusing time and energy on making the release a success first?  Then you can promise me the moon once I've been hooked. 

I appreciate what you're saying, but many game makers can't even deliver on day one.  Who's to say that an expansion is even warranted?  Do you think Vanguard, Earth & Beyond, or Tabula Rasa should be discussing an expansion? 

I think the statement that Skaven are in the first expansions was given to calm down the fanbois that bitched around that they are not in at release. Give them some hope and a carrot.

That, and the fact that they WILL be in an Add-on.
The story of no one actually approving that there will be an Add-on is a totally different one.

[Venkman]

If you want approachable PvP in an RPG, the first thing you do is remove the levels as a requirement, which, like, contradicts the premise of the experience to begin with. You never need to do that in an FPS.

Competitive MP FPSes have an incredible emphasis on time played. In other words the more you play an FPS the better you get (imagine that).

Time spent in an FPS allows you to get knowledgeable and better at an FPS*. Time spent in MMOs only allow you to get more knowledgeable.

* This includes applicable carryover skills, of which there are little in MMORPGs beyond that knowledge.

[eldaec]

If you want approachable PvP in an RPG, the first thing you do is remove the levels as a requirement, which, like, contradicts the premise of the experience to begin with. You never need to do that in an FPS.

Competitive MP FPSes have an incredible emphasis on time played. In other words the more you play an FPS the better you get (imagine that).

Time spent in an FPS allows you to get knowledgeable and better at an FPS*. Time spent in MMOs only allow you to get more knowledgeable.

* This includes applicable carryover skills, of which there are little in MMORPGs beyond that knowledge.

This depends on the difference you see between 'skills' and 'knowledge'. And if the difference is in any way meaningful, I'd say you are flat out wrong.

If ability to assess a situation with very many variables, make the right decision, and then operate the interface as quickly as possible to implement that decision before the situation changes is solely knowledge based, then you are right. But I don't see how that is different from skill.

[Venkman]

I didn't think we were talking at that level of abstraction. I was merely referring to the differences between preparing and winning in an MMORPG PvP fight vs that of an FPS. Both are "the more you play the better you get" games, the paraphrase Trippy. But my contention is that MMORPGs skew way more heavily on knowledge being a preparation (including gear, stats, pre-work, and yes, skill etc) while FPSes are a bit more balanced between knowledge and skill in that you're not guaranteed to be steamrolled because you didn't memorize the map or didn't bring the exact right combination of weapons and stuff.

Oh, and I'm not talking at the tournament level for either. This is all still about whether I think one or the other is more approachable to a person off the street.

[Triforcer]

Big news afoot!  Much info revealed in Paris tomorrow!  Main site has a "coming soon" button that is covering up the letters R and E (Release date?)!  Tune in tomorrow, same Bat-time, same Bat-channel!

[amiable]

What is this boards rules regarding releasing informaiton that has been made public but is still subject to an NDA.  I found a site where someone wrote a pretty comprehensive state of the game in violation of the NDA, but I don't want to post it here if it breaks site rules.

[Triforcer]

I believe the rule is that NDA breaking= bad.  Probably shouldn't do it.

[Nebu]

I believe the rule is that NDA breaking= bad.  Probably shouldn't do it.

Can anyone recall a publicized example of someone being prosecuted for breaking an NDA?  I can't think of any. 

Seems to me that by the time the beta is underway that companies allow for some leakage.  I'm guessing that the primary reason for an NDA is to limit exposure/profiteering on privately constructed web sites. 

[tmp]

Can anyone recall a publicized example of someone being prosecuted for breaking an NDA?  I can't think of any. 

Well not exactly what you're asking for but WAR staff seems to actively pursue instances of NDA breaking on various forums. Including complaints made to board admins so it's not surprising if said admins choose to take the "i don't have time for this so just get this shit out of my backyard" stance.

[Signe]

They probably wouldn't prosecute but I'm sure they'd ban those people from beta and stop talking to that website if they did nothing about it in a timely fashion.  I don't think f13 wants to alienate developers in quite that manner.  They'd much rather insult them away... although, the developers that are regulars here don't seem to intimidate easily. 

Dammit. 

[amiable]

Yeah, I don't want to step on any toes.  If you are interested just pm me and I will send you the link.  It is a closed forum, but registering is free and easy (you don't have to give real personal info, just put in a name and psswd). 

[Simond]

Well, the fact that the game is scheduled to be released in the next quarter and the NDA is still up isays something in itself, to a certain extent.

[Triforcer]

Well, the fact that the game is scheduled to be released in the next quarter and the NDA is still up isays something in itself, to a certain extent.

I don't think many MMOs have had an open beta period longer than a couple months anyway, so I'm not alarmed.  I believe Mark Jacobs said somewhere that anything less than four weeks between release and the NDA is DANGER WILL ROBINSON, more than four is good, and WoW had the record at 8ish. 

[Nebu]

I believe Mark Jacobs said somewhere that anything less than four weeks between release and the NDA is DANGER WILL ROBINSON, more than four is good, and WoW had the record at 8ish. 

Make a well-crafted game and you don't have to worry about what people will say.  A long period of open beta with no NDA is a sign of confidence in your product. 

[eldaec]

Reading between the lines, I don't think they are taking the Q2 thing seriously, they just don't have a new date ready to announce.

[Dash]

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showpost.php?p=729600&postcount=165

Folks,

I've pretty much said what will be happening on the 26th and it won't be open beta. I can't imagine why anyone would think that quite frankly. Some real simple clues guys:

1) The countdown clock is on GOA's site only

2) There was a leak/multiple threads about possible contents of our CE from a European site

3) In one of the other threads, multiple posters (including a board mod) talked about the contents of the CE being revealed next week in Paris.

So, anyone really want a shot at the title and guess what they are going to be talking about?

I really wish I could say that the date of open beta was going to be talked about but that isn't the case. There will a bunch of things at the GOA event but the date of open beta will not be one of those things. And I can't tell you exactly what we are going to talk about there either for obvious reasons.

Also, as I've said before, don't preorder the CE until you are exactly sure what's the complete story on it unless you were going to order it no matter what. It's only a few more days and everything will be revealed.

Mark

[eldaec]

If the world was a sane place, that countdown would be to the announcement saying EU players can rejoice that GOA have been taken off the project....

The world is not a sane place, naturally.

[schild]

Contents of the CE?

Frontpage.

[schild]

I hope I didn't just steal some super minor thunder from GOA.

[Aez]

I hope I didn't just steal some super minor thunder from GOA.

I tough the first in-game items for cash or preorder were armless enough.  I should have known better.

[Triforcer]

I hope I didn't just steal some super minor thunder from GOA.

Interesting.  LIMITED pre-order?  I better order tomorrow...

[schild]

I hope I didn't just steal some super minor thunder from GOA.

Interesting.  LIMITED pre-order?  I better order tomorrow...

That's why there's a countdown. They didn't want anyone to let the "cat" out of the "bag."

Unfortunately, when Gamestop gets an email, I get an email.

[Triforcer]

I hope I didn't just steal some super minor thunder from GOA.

Interesting.  LIMITED pre-order?  I better order tomorrow...

That's why there's a countdown. They didn't want anyone to let the "cat" out of the "bag."

Unfortunately, when Gamestop gets an email, I get an email.

Any idea of the exact time this is going down?  And do I have to go to a brick and mortar store?

[schild]

Brick and Mortar, at open, 10am. Enjoy.

I preordered mine today. 

[Triforcer]

Brick and Mortar, at open, 10am. Enjoy.

I preordered mine today. 

No online option?  REAGAN SMASH.   

[schild]

Brick and Mortar, at open, 10am. Enjoy.

I preordered mine today. 

No online option?  REAGAN SMASH.   

It doesn't mention you CAN'T do it online, but I can't see why they'd let you do that.

[Dash]

Fuck it I'm getting it.  Even though I have no idea what a Grumlock and Gazbag is.

[Triforcer]

Fuck it I'm getting it.  Even though I have no idea what a Grumlock and Gazbag is.

NEWB!!!

[schild]

I'm surprised this isn't crossposted in that thread Mark posted in about the countdown.

I hope they enjoy the clock.

[Triforcer]

I'm surprised this isn't crossposted in that thread Mark posted in about the countdown.

I hope they enjoy the clock.

I tried linking to this over at Only-war, but it was immediately deleted by their head mod.  That board is tightly, tightly controlled.

[Aez]

You're all exited about this?  

Exclusive quest? That's complete bullshit.