11/20 Mass Effect (Xbox 360)

[Phildo]

I think they felt compelled to add light/dark choices because that's one of the things the company is known for.  But really, I like that even though the outcome is the same I have the opportunity to change the dialog up a little.  Makes the game more replayable.

[Rasix]

They had more fun with Renegade options and it shows as early as Eden Prime.

[Velorath]

I think they felt compelled to add light/dark choices because that's one of the things the company is known for.  But really, I like that even though the outcome is the same I have the opportunity to change the dialog up a little.  Makes the game more replayable.

Well, I think it makes sense story-wise when you're planning a trilogy to not have good characters and evil characters in the way that KotoR did.

[Mazakiel]

The charm options, at least, need a bit more depth to them in the second game.  (Likely intimidate too, but I've not done a renegade playthrough yet.)  Convincing someone inclined to shoot you to not shoot you and surrender instead should take more than a "C'mon........C'MON......." line of dialogue.  Make it open up a long dialogue chain or something, instead of where it's a line or two to completely turn someone around.  Like right before the final conflict.  That you could use charm to get what happened to happen is a really cool touch, but that it seemed so...rushed to happen cheapened it a little.  My first response to that, and to several results of using charm was, "....that worked?"  So, like alot of the issues I have with the game, just adding a little more polish, or expanding it a bit, would go a long way. 

Except the Mako.  Either get rid of it, or design another go at it.  Flopping around like an armored fish just isn't too fun. 

[Murgos]

I'm always torn when there are two text branch options and one is an intimidate and the other is Kill him.

[Phildo]

Couple of sidequest issues... possible minor spoilers, maybe?



Do you ever find out exactly who ws blackmailing the doctor?
And is there ever any follow-up on the shadow broker?

Also, has anyone tried being a perv once the romantic interest has come to visit them?  Like the one with Ashley that says "Get in that bed" or something like that?

[Rasix]

Also, has anyone tried being a perv once the romantic interest has come to visit them?  Like the one with Ashley that says "Get in that bed" or something like that?

I went with the MOAR option after alien-not-quite-but-technically-kinda-lesbo sex with Liara.  The dialog was "Ready for round 2?" followed by a shocked (but totally wanting it) "Shepard!".  Alas, 5 minutes to Ilos landing prevented anything further.  Why was I dressed already? 

Do you ever find out exactly who ws blackmailing the doctor?

Not that I've seen.  Perhaps it's in the text leading up to "Missing Marines".  Which supposedly is what follows if you ask Kohoku about Banes.

And is there ever any follow-up on the shadow broker?

Shadow Broker will buy your Cerberus data. That's it that I've seen.  Definitely feels like a missing thread.

[MrHat]

Might be a tie in later on.

As for me, I'm onwards to Ilos this weekend.  I think I missed out on the macking because i turned down Liara and expressed no interest in Ashely. Stupid goodie answers.

Edit: I'm shocked I've stayed 'good' this long.  In KOTOR, about mid way through the game, the mercenary answers kept me down (more loot w/ this option).

[LK]

Totally new system.  It's actually more Gears of War emulated action than RPG.

Gears did it better though.  I took issue with a lot of their decisions and how they structured the game.  The game only gets high ratings because people don't know what a good fucking game is anymore, or are getting paid to give it a high rating.

[geldonyetich2]

It's true, I tried to use the word "emulated" to make clear that Mass Effect is only a knock-off of Gears of War-esque action and not the real thing.  It's not bad for a knockoff - it gets better once you get used to using cover, Mass Effect style.   Yet, it's still not specifically developed to be as good, thanks to all that bothersome effort spent on developing context, story, and Mako driving.

[stray]

..thanks to all that bothersome effort spent on developing context, story, and Mako driving.

And uh, Bioware not being very good at creating compelling gameplay in general...


Not that I'm not knockin' their games too much though (and especially this one, since I haven't played it). Don't get me wrong. I like love stories. Haha

[Rasix]

Bioware has created the only two RPGs that I've bothered to replay immediately after beating the game.  Compelling enough for me.   

Although this one has generally interesting combat rather than D20 that's hit or miss with folks. Funny thing you mention the love stories though, I think this is the first one where I've completed a romance instead of flaming out since PS:T/BG 2 (managed to not care/epic fail in KOTOR 1&2, Jade Empire).

[stray]

I'm just kidding about the love stories really. Just my catchall term for all the dialogue and character interaction they have in their games. They almost qualify as adventure games in this respect.

[Phildo]

I've tried exploring the Banes thing really deeply, and it seems to just drop off after you find the missing marines and Kohaku gets involved with Cerberus.  You can still ask about Banes with the shopkeeper, but it seems like something they left out, just like with follow-up on the Shadow Broker after you give him the Cerberus data.

[AcidCat]

I'm about halfway through my second playthrough. It's clear that this is one of those games that requires your imagination to meet it halfway. Otherwise there is just so much of the game that is only a facade, and you get too many peeks behind it just showing an old warehouse, like a kid running through a poorly built funhouse. It shares similarities with BioShock in just having the illusion of choice. So many dialogue options just lead to the exact same point. The Milky Way feels so small, for a game about exploring the galaxy it's just laughable really, aside from the main story planets you have a handful of tiny planets with little cut and paste bases, and random junk items spread about the little planet that aren't worth the time navigating up a mountain in the Mako to get them.

But I really like micromanaging my party's equipment and skills, even if I can't really micromanage them in battle, and I like watching the Shepards I spent a lot of time making "just right" interact with the NPCs. My imagination tends to fill in the rest, but still I'm certain the game we got is just a fraction of what BioWare intended to make.

[Murgos]

I actually like how the text options pretty much lead to the same place, just said differently.

It keeps the game focused and moving forward and when I'm feeling annoyed I can cut off the council mid sentence or stick the barrel of my pistol up someones nose without having to worry if I made the 'right' choice.

As a serial save-and-try-the-other-path addict I find it quite refreshing that I can focus on more roleplayingy aspects.

[Tebonas]

Indeed.

[geldonyetich2]

This is a good point but, from the perspective of somebody who thinks gaming innovation is about having player choices matter more, it  [dialogue choices leading to the same place] seems frustratingly retroactive.

[Lum]

Is this one of those Bioware games that basically sucks on most gameplay levels, but somehow, still wins you over because of the love story?

Be honest now.

The love story is pretty lame. Talk - Talk - Talk - Jump into bed. I had a lot more fun with Wrex talking smack to everyone.

[Lum]

I think they felt compelled to add light/dark choices because that's one of the things the company is known for.  But really, I like that even though the outcome is the same I have the opportunity to change the dialog up a little.  Makes the game more replayable.

And as a Renegade you THROW PEOPLE AGAINST WALLS, WAVE GUNS IN THEIR FACE, AND SHOOT THEM IN THE HEAD.

Other than that, yeah, exactly the same.

[Rasix]

While the game essentially is on rails, driving toward an end conflict, I accomplished things a whole lot different from when playing as a renegade rather than a paragon.  Heck, the end state of the galaxy is essentially going to be different when I finish and all of this has been based on my choices in dialog. My renegade leaves behind a trail of retribution, execution, frontier justice, and genocide that my paragon avoided at every turn. 

Some of the minor crap tends to end with the same result, but convincing someone to go home and sticking a gun in their face and screaming at them are different things.  Manuel probably appreciates the paragon treatment rather than the right cross planted on his jaw. 

What's really missing most of the time and what sets a game like The Witcher apart, is the reaction and path that your actions set you down.  While you decisions have impact in Mass Effect at a certain point in time, the true impact is negligible. Although I wonder if I got a certain quest because of my renegade status and that I never got with my paragon (and the reverse, my renegade never got the traumatized girl on the docks quest).

[Riggswolfe]

. Although I wonder if I got a certain quest because of my renegade status and that I never got with my paragon (and the reverse, my renegade never got the traumatized girl on the docks quest).

This sidequest depends on your background, specifically where you grew up. Your career path effects some later quests but doesn't spawn any new ones.

Minor spoilers follow:





Colonist: Traumatized girl
Spacer: Old friend of your mothers
Earthborn: Blackmailed by a member of a gang you were in.

War Hero: The sidequest with the nuclear probe is more personal
Sole Survivor: The sidequest with Corporal Toombs is more personal
Ruthless: Major Kyle was your commanding officer in your famous mission.

These background choices also impact starting paragon and renegade scores:

Spacer, Warhero: Start with Paragon points (double if you choose both.)
Earthborn, Ruthless: Start with Renegade points (double if you choose both.)
Colonish, Sole Survivor: Neutral. (No points or some points in both, I'm not sure.)

[AcidCat]

While you decisions have impact in Mass Effect at a certain point in time, the true impact is negligible.

Yep, this was my main point, that any freedom of choice in the game is largely an illusion with purely fleeting, cosmetic consequences that don't alter anything about how the game plays after that moment.

After BioShock and Mass Effect, I am really, really craving a game where my choices actually matter and truly alter the game afterwards - I hear Witcher is more like this? I haven't gotten around to getting that yet with so many games released lately.

[Riggswolfe]

After BioShock and Mass Effect, I am really, really craving a game where my choices actually matter and truly alter the game afterwards - I hear Witcher is more like this? I haven't gotten around to getting that yet with so many games released lately.

In the Witcher your choices have impacts, sometimes an hour or more after you make them. The impact, at least in the part I got to, are minor however. A certain NPC may get killed, that kind of thing.

[Mazakiel]

The Witcher definitely seemed to get the "Choices have impact" thing better.  In a way, it's almost sort of like the choices cascade.  What seems like a small choice in one spot affects something later, which in turn affects options and events, and so forth.  Is a small decision early on going to alter the plot forever?  Not exactly.  It's more of how things play out until the bigger choices, and some of those bigger choices have options that are dependant on how you've done things up til then.  At minimum, I felt like I was affecting what was happening to me ALOT more than I did in Mass Effect.  And there are several places where there is no easy choice, as well as places where you don't get the result you expect at all.

As much as I ultimately preferred The Witcher over Mass Effect, I do feel they were going for different things.  Mass Effect is at heart an old fashioned space opera, where the men are men, women are women, etc.  The Witcher is a gritty, dark game.  There really isn't a 'happy' ending, no matter what you do.  I found the Witcher more rewarding, but that in no way means I didn't enjoy Mass Effect.  They're both excellent games in my book. 

[Stormwaltz]

Are the elevators in the Citadel playing Feliz Navidad?

"Muzak" or lounge versions of the main theme, actually. We suggested it in honor of the "Live and Let Die" Ultimart scene in Grosse Point Blank.

The "Banes" thing is only supposed to be an alternate path into the Kahoku/Cerberus plot. It doesn't work, since it's presented in a way that suggests it's an entirely different plot.

And as the guy who spent two weeks trying to debug those quest journals, I have a deep personal hate for the Banes/Kohoku/Cerberus trifecta.

[Riggswolfe]

And as the guy who spent two weeks trying to debug those quest journals, I have a deep personal hate for the Banes/Kohoku/Cerberus trifecta.

I like them but they feel incomplete to me as well. I chalked it up to "well maybe it'll be expanded upon in the sequel."

[NiX]

I really think Stormwaltz needs to bug somebody to have M4 Part 2 become a download for Rock Band. Also make sure the Faunts have something to do with the sequels. That song made the ending perfect. I watched the entire credits just to hear the whole song and see who made it so I could get it on iTunes.

[Khaldun]

Ok, somebody tell me whether I'm imagining this. I'm going total Renegade dialog options with my second character, and I'm certain that all  of the NPCs are swearing a titload more in this run-through, once I'd hit a certain renegade threshold.

There are occasional dialogues where it's really tough to select the renegade option because you feel like you're going to cut off the dialog without getting a good result. You know, it's like this:

Liara: "I don't know what I did to turn this on".

Renegade dialog selection: "Stupid cunt!"

But of course, if you go ahead and select it, the actual spoken dialog always turns out like, "That wasn't a very good idea, was it?" or something similarly mild.

[NiX]

It was actually the same way with some of the Paragon dialogues. I'd say something super nice and they would just stop. I was confused.

[Strazos]

Are the dialogue choices perhaps what Shepard is Thinking, but not always the same as what is said?

In essence, I don't have a problem with this approach if it's in fact what is being used; you're thinking one thing, but you don't use those exact words. The feeling of what you wanted to say generally still gets across though.

[NiX]

It could be, though there are points where the option varies greatly from the result.

[Murgos]

Finally finished, 45 hours for my first play though.  Took a renegade, err, humanocentric path.  Going to be interesting to see how the next one picks up from where you leave off at.

[MrHat]

I just finished as well.  Just under 30 hours.  I was paragon the whole way through except the end.

Whiney bitches deserved to die.

[LK]

Are the elevators in the Citadel playing Feliz Navidad?

"Muzak" or lounge versions of the main theme, actually. We suggested it in honor of the "Live and Let Die" Ultimart scene in Grosse Point Blank.

The "Banes" thing is only supposed to be an alternate path into the Kahoku/Cerberus plot. It doesn't work, since it's presented in a way that suggests it's an entirely different plot.

And as the guy who spent two weeks trying to debug those quest journals, I have a deep personal hate for the Banes/Kohoku/Cerberus trifecta.

Always nice to have a dev in on a discussion about their game. :)