Champions Online: The No-NDA Merged Edition

[Khaldun]

So now I'm into the 30s with two different toons, getting ready to shift my attentions to Fallen Earth this weekend.

Monster Island is good, Lemuria is shamefully bad in multiple respects.

Other things that have drilled themselves home to me through playing through this thing thoroughly: the voice acting is possibly the worst in any present or past MMO. You don't have to get Patrick Stewart or whatever, but picking out a couple of cubicles at random and telling the codemonkeys working in them that they're going to do a voice is not the way to go. The Nemesis missions are fun, and pretty much the way that this game *should* have gone: they should have spent most of their design budget on that kind of content. The game really really really suffers from not having a kind of Atlas Park location where people go to just hang out and look at costumes. Big boss fights need more choreography. You can do without the tank-healer-dps mechanic IF you've still got some kind of skillcheck where players need to know when to move, use particular skills, block and so on. In fact, if you had to watch the boss carefully to "read" shifts in its aggro but also watch for a set of six to seven choreographed moves that each required some situational response or awareness, it would be engaging. As it is, you just zerg and as long as someone's smart enough to block until dead people get back, you just steadily work the boss down. Boring.

[Malakili]

So now I'm into the 30s with two different toons, getting ready to shift my attentions to Fallen Earth this weekend.

Monster Island is good, Lemuria is shamefully bad in multiple respects.

Agreed.  It pretty much is everything that you would expect would be wrong with an underwater zone.  The quest chains there are actually pretty cool, if only the zone wasn't awful to play in.

Other things that have drilled themselves home to me through playing through this thing thoroughly: the voice acting is possibly the worst in any present or past MMO. You don't have to get Patrick Stewart or whatever, but picking out a couple of cubicles at random and telling the codemonkeys working in them that they're going to do a voice is not the way to go.

I often play without sound, so this isn't a big deal for me, but yeah, its awful.  I hear Roper is the voice for Foxbat.

The Nemesis missions are fun, and pretty much the way that this game *should* have gone: they should have spent most of their design budget on that kind of content.

Definitely, and recently they made it so minions spawns are JUST random from fighting.  Before there were locations in the game where you could reliably get them to spawn, so you could basically get a nemesis mission every 6 hours if you wanted to (that was the drop cooldown).  But they felt that it was "exploiting" to do it that way, so they took it out.

The game really really really suffers from not having a kind of Atlas Park location where people go to just hang out and look at costumes.

I think this is more a symptom of the fact that there is really never a reason to CARE about anyone else unless they are in your Supergroup (read: Guild, for those not playing).  Honestly, the comparison of costumes is done more through their website with the "rate my champion" thing.  Club Caprice is ok for it too, but its an RP hangout, so if RP isn't your thing, you might want to avoid it.

[Bandit]

I think this is more a symptom of the fact that there is really never a reason to CARE about anyone else unless they are in your Supergroup (read: Guild, for those not playing).  Honestly, the comparison of costumes is done more through their website with the "rate my champion" thing.  Club Caprice is ok for it too, but its an RP hangout, so if RP isn't your thing, you might want to avoid it.

Heh, at level 33 now and I haven't ran across "Club Caprice".....where is it? They should really add some more map tips for locations in Millennium City (bank, auction house, etc.)

[Slyfeind]

I didn't even know there were banks in the game until about a week after launch. I had to search for player-made maps to find it.

[Malakili]

I think this is more a symptom of the fact that there is really never a reason to CARE about anyone else unless they are in your Supergroup (read: Guild, for those not playing).  Honestly, the comparison of costumes is done more through their website with the "rate my champion" thing.  Club Caprice is ok for it too, but its an RP hangout, so if RP isn't your thing, you might want to avoid it.

Heh, at level 33 now and I haven't ran across "Club Caprice".....where is it? They should really add some more map tips for locations in Millennium City (bank, auction house, etc.)

Renaissance Square, the big area near the Power House has all the important stuff in the game.  Club Caprice is one of the big buildings there, there is a big sign on the front that says Club Caprice.  There is no reason to go in there for quests or anything, so its easy to miss.  The Bank, Market, a building for each crafting profession, and the UNITY headquarters are all there as well (you'll get sent to UNITY headquarters at level 40). 

It seemed obvious to me that this was sort of what they were going for as the main social hub of the game, but the game is designed in such a way that you're really only ever there if you are in MC and need to go to the power house, or maybe to sell stuff off, there is no real advantage to hanging out there when you are idle, as zone chats are all separate anyway, so its not like you'll find groups easier, or anything else. 

[Khaldun]

I think this is more a symptom of the fact that there is really never a reason to CARE about anyone else unless they are in your Supergroup (read: Guild, for those not playing).  Honestly, the comparison of costumes is done more through their website with the "rate my champion" thing.  Club Caprice is ok for it too, but its an RP hangout, so if RP isn't your thing, you might want to avoid it.

Heh, at level 33 now and I haven't ran across "Club Caprice".....where is it? They should really add some more map tips for locations in Millennium City (bank, auction house, etc.)

I kind of like RP at times, but...mostly Club Caprice isn't that, it's more the cybering kind of RP that I've seen when I've gone in there. Squicky.

[Slyfeind]

I love the role playing that goes on there, mostly because it's not so wanky as other games. Like, in World of Warcraft you might get someone role playing that they lost an arm, but not really because the game doesn't support losing an arm. But in CO, if someone role plays that they lost their arm, their character really doesn't have a freaking arm. It's probably replaced by a robotic arm or something like that, but at least there's more going on.

[Malakili]

I love the role playing that goes on there, mostly because it's not so wanky as other games. Like, in World of Warcraft you might get someone role playing that they lost an arm, but not really because the game doesn't support losing an arm. But in CO, if someone role plays that they lost their arm, their character really doesn't have a freaking arm. It's probably replaced by a robotic arm or something like that, but at least there's more going on.

Yeah, combined with the fact that you can have multiple costume slots, with which you can TOTALLY change how your character looks, you can even make some fun Dr. Jerkyl Mr. Hyde type characters in terms of actually changing how they look.

[Malakili]

The dead are rising. Werewolves are running rampant. And vampires have emerged from the shadows, hungry for the blood of innocents. All around the world, from the hustling metropolis of Millennium City to the most far-off and fantastic corners of the world, strange, twisted and terrible things are happening. A Blood Moon hangs eerily in the sky, and soon the entire universe of Champions Online will feel its uncanny and unsettling effects.
Zombies. Vampires. Werewolves. Halloween is coming, and we pulled out all the stops to bring the holiday's thrills and chills to the four-color superheroic universe of Champions Online. But then we took a long hard look and thought, "How can we make this even cooler?"
The answer? Zombie superheroes.
The whys and hows and wheres were easy. Surely one of the biggest events in all of Champions history is the Battle of Detroit, a battle that took place more than a quarter century ago, where the heroes of the day banded together against the greatest menace the world had ever known: the genocidal supervillain known as Doctor Destroyer.
It was a fight that had devastating, lasting consequences. Detroit was destroyed that day. The great and grand Millennium City was built on its ashes. Destroyer was routed, presumed dead, (though there has been evidence recently his death may have been greatly exaggerated.) And, in defeating the great Destroyer, many, many brave and noble heroes lost their lives.
Until today. Until the Blood Moon.
Thirteen of the greatest heroes the universe has ever known are back. Undead and enslaved, they serve the Turakian Lord of the Undying, the arch lich known as Takofanes. And Takofanes has but one order: "Kill the living, so that my army of the dead can grow."
And, so, from the rich tapestry of Champions lore, we've plucked thirteen heroes who fell during that pivotal moment in Champions history and granted them new life—unholy new unlife.
There is Vanguard, who, in his day, was the most powerful superhero on the planet. Today he is the most powerful zombie.
There is Radion, the radioactive creation of Dr. Destroyer who turned on his master, only to die at his hand. Eclipse, who claimed to be a sentient sunspot. Firefight, who got his powers during a blaze in a chemical warehouse. Tiger, mutated into a man-animal by a prototype serum created by Dr. Moreau. Nimbus, weather witch. The mutant Vigil. Strongman Johnny Hercules. The ethereal Amazing Grace. Crusher. Flechette. Shadowboxer. And the Goblin.
Thirteen of the bravest heroes the world has ever known. Now thirteen of the most lethal zombies who have ever walked the earth. And they are serving a force so powerful, so evil, it rivals even Doctor Destroyer himself.
During the Blood Moon, brave heroes of the modern Champions Universe will have the chance to square off against these zombie heroes. Ambitious heroes will have the opportunity to take on all thirteen.
And after they succeed, they can prove their selflessness and nobility, descending into the crypts of Takofanes, and freeing the captive spirits of these heroes from Takofanes' malevolent control.
Of course, there is still the question of what caused the Blood Moon, and what compelled Takofanes to attack when he did. That's a mystery for another day, but there are plenty of hints. Takofanes warns that an Apocalypse is coming, and his undead onslaught is just the first volley in a final war that threatens to engulf and consume all of the Earth.
And what is this Apocalypse Takofanes refers to? That answer will come sooner than you think.
In the meantime, enjoy the Blood Moon. Enjoy it… and do your best to survive it!
Coming this October to Champions Online

ehhhhhhh, we'll see.

[Slyfeind]

Sounds somewhat interesting. I'm skeptical of their ability to deliver new content though. I suspect their Halloween event will be balanced and playable right around Thanksgiving.

[Khaldun]

Considering that they frequently crash the servers even on minor patches, yeah, I wouldn't exactly pencil in plans to play this content over the coming month.

I guess they've switched from ripping off Marvel (which isn't their fault: that's the old PnP Champions content, which was pretty shameless in this respect) to DC, since this pretty much reads like a fanfic revision of "Blackest Night".

[UnSub]

Considering that they frequently crash the servers even on minor patches, yeah, I wouldn't exactly pencil in plans to play this content over the coming month.

I guess they've switched from ripping off Marvel (which isn't their fault: that's the old PnP Champions content, which was pretty shameless in this respect) to DC, since this pretty much reads like a fanfic revision of "Blackest Night".

Champions is pretty much a conceptual rip homage of both Marvel and DC, with a skew towards Marvel. It's one of the reasons I think that ChampO potentially lacks soul is that the lore itself lacks soul, which flowed on through the design process. The lich is known in the Champions universe for doing this kind of thing, so I don't see it as a Blackest Night rip-off so much as coincidental timing.

[Tannhauser]

Yeah but didn't Marvel just do a zombie/hero invasion?

[Khaldun]

They've got a side project about a zombie-hero universe that's now going into its fifth or sixth iteration. Kind of played out, you'd think, but apparently kids these days lap it up.

Yeah, anyway, in lore terms, buying Champions did not do Cryptic any favors. The City of Heroes lore was actually pretty fresh-feeling, even if (I gather) it actually came from a Champions campaign that the devs used to run back in the day.

[Kageru]

The champions lore is absolutely ghastly. It stinks of people sitting around a table high on coke and cheeto's. It's just so corny, derivative and obviously scripted as plug-in backstory. And the game itself kills the characters with the biggest name in the canon taking a dive to an opponent you can solo at level 5 and thereafter acting as an irritating quest depot.

I loved the Champions PnP (but am embarassed I loved it because it invited munch-kinism) but even then the lore was grimace worthy. And the GM quickly dumped it and just used DC characters.

[Typhon]

Anyone else having control issues (controls feel even clunkier then before) since the last patch?

I use right-mouse hold to turn/direct my char and since last patch it seems like many times when I do things that worked well before, now the game is confused about whether I really am holding down my right-mouse.

It's either the game or my logictech trackball.  Also, it's really pissing me off.

[Malakili]

The champions lore is absolutely ghastly. It stinks of people sitting around a table high on coke and cheeto's. It's just so corny, derivative and obviously scripted as plug-in backstory. And the game itself kills the characters with the biggest name in the canon taking a dive to an opponent you can solo at level 5 and thereafter acting as an irritating quest depot.

I don't view this as a totally bad thing.  If this WERE Marvel Universe Online there'd be so much lore and canon that people had to worry about violating or messing with.  No one gives a shit about Champions backstory.  One of the things that bugs me about DCUO is that it looks like you end up getting to "fight alongside" all the DC heroes.  Screw that, I enjoy being the important hero.  There is so much baggage you have to deal with when you use a really long standing expansive IP, and I'm glad I don't have to wade through all that crap when playing Champions.  

[Sky]

I use right-mouse hold to turn/direct my char and since last patch it seems like many times when I do things that worked well before, now the game is confused about whether I really am holding down my right-mouse.

That always happens to me in EQ2 (and only EQ2). I can't figure out why and it drives me nuts.

[Khaldun]

The champions lore is absolutely ghastly. It stinks of people sitting around a table high on coke and cheeto's. It's just so corny, derivative and obviously scripted as plug-in backstory. And the game itself kills the characters with the biggest name in the canon taking a dive to an opponent you can solo at level 5 and thereafter acting as an irritating quest depot.

I don't view this as a totally bad thing.  If this WERE Marvel Universe Online there'd be so much lore and canon that people had to worry about violating or messing with.  No one gives a shit about Champions backstory.  One of the things that bugs me about DCUO is that it looks like you end up getting to "fight alongside" all the DC heroes.  Screw that, I enjoy being the important hero.  There is so much baggage you have to deal with when you use a really long standing expansive IP, and I'm glad I don't have to wade through all that crap when playing Champions.  

For sure. But I think conversely that you could do better in designing your own superhero universe than the lore in Champions, which is really pretty wretched pastiches of Marvel and DC. The sheer 14-year old fanboy badness of the lore is aggravated by the text on loading screens, the voice acting, and so on. They were going for the campiness of the Freedom Force games, but they really missed the mark by a huge degree. When it's all said and done, I'm not even clear why they felt the need to buy any IP at all, except maybe as a protective ward against legal action from Marvel & DC given their previous exposure to said action. This way, if you've got something as screamingly derivative as Grond, you can still say, "Nuh-uh, this has been around for a long time and you didn't do nothing about it when it first appeared."

[Bandit]

Champions lore leaves a bit to be desired for sure, definitely not as well established as one would hope.  However, I think you may be wearing rose-coloured glasses in respect to City of Heroes lore.  It was equally bad, a little more grit and less campy and over-the-top.  I actually went as far as to order a couple of CoX paperbacks (City of Heroes & Web of Arachnos).  They were horrible.  In addition, if you ever read their top cow comic, you would realize why it was canceled.

I think the Marvel/DC rip-offs is intentional, bringing some familiarity to the game and characters.  They seem to really push the golden-age/retro style and over-the-top dramatics much like the aforementioned Freedom Force.  Admittedly, they haven't done a very good job with the exception of a couple of characters such as Foxbat.

[Ingmar]

Going to have to disagree. CoX's lore isn't outstanding by any means but the Champions Online stuff is just flat-out lame for the most part.

Speaking solely of the in-game stuff, mind you.

[Bandit]

Going to have to disagree. CoX's lore isn't outstanding by any means but the Champions Online stuff is just flat-out lame for the most part.

Speaking solely of the in-game stuff, mind you.

What are you disagreeing with exactly?  I said that Champions lore was disappointing.  Your implying that CoX was good?

[Ingmar]

Going to have to disagree. CoX's lore isn't outstanding by any means but the Champions Online stuff is just flat-out lame for the most part.

Speaking solely of the in-game stuff, mind you.

What are you disagreeing with exactly?  I said that Champions lore was disappointing.  Your implying that CoX was good?

You seemed to be implying that they're roughly on par with each other. I think CoX was fine lore-wise with a few things that are really pretty well-done and some other stuff that was not; I think Champions lore was deeply awful and not even really in the same conversation.

[Sjofn]

CoX isn't going to win any Awesome Lore Awards but at least a lot of their villain factions had personality. CO's are all just sort of meh. That might change at the higher levels, I am not very high yet, but at the lower levels? The Canadian seperatists are really the only bad guys that I would say are interesting in the least, and that is only because I think they are funny.

[Sky]

The Canadian seperatists are really the only bad guys that I would say are interesting in the least

[Lantyssa]

It might be because I couldn't get into the game, but I found it easy to take the CoX lore and make my own background stories around it while I couldn't with Champions.

I'm still highly amused of making Hero Burger my tank's nemesis though.  It will be so Mary Sue I'd be ashamed, but when I go back I'm making a story arc revolving around it.

[Sobelius]

I find I don't really care about superhero lore [reading comics was not part of my geek formative years]. Is it a fun game to play? For me, yes, because I love tinkering around with power sets, builds, gear, and character costumes. I did read the starter area quests just to see if I was missing anything interesting. Not really, but sometimes there are nice moments of humor. I rescued Foxbat and he said "Tell a GM to respawn me in a safer spot next time." I earned the title Hoser in the Canadian area. Other bystander NPCs here and there do and say odd things when you talk to them -- valley girl in Millenium City tells me "Can't you SEE I am ON the PHONE!?" And she gives me the hand.

Whatever -- maybe it's that I have yet to read lore, character or world background in a comic book that is as engaging as Middle Earth's (resulting in something similar to LoTROs decent representation of same). I just don't have any expectations for comic/superhero-based MMOs I guess other than they deliver fast-paced combat with highly customizable characters. And that they don't use random building/mission generators a la CoX. May I never see another Circle of Thorns cave as long as I live.

[Bandit]

It might be because I couldn't get into the game, but I found it easy to take the CoX lore and make my own background stories around it while I couldn't with Champions.

Yeah must be because you couldn't get into the game, because my bullshit meter would go off otherwise.  Especially from someone who has "called the epic fail from the beginning".  Not much difference in Viper vs. Arachnos, The Purple Gang versus The Family, Clockwork versus Destructoid, etc.  Pretty much free reign in each game to develop a background story around derivative factions.

[Kageru]

I'd argue that (I thought the clockwork, rikti and freakshow were quite cool), but in the end am willing to leave it up to personal taste. I did like that in CoH each named character will have a single long taskforce mission which gives them a chance to develop some identity. In CO all the named characters are giving completely generic quest leads.

It's something Blizzard has become more clever about. Though like any new idea they overdo it a bit. However having quests to experience the depths of Artha's evil (playing as Arthas), discovering that his heart is irredeemably tainted (a great quest chain) and various cameo appearances has established the character in game. Even if you'd never read a word of lore you know who he is and you want him dead. Same for some of the other characters.

[Khaldun]

It might be because I couldn't get into the game, but I found it easy to take the CoX lore and make my own background stories around it while I couldn't with Champions.

Yeah must be because you couldn't get into the game, because my bullshit meter would go off otherwise.  Especially from someone who has "called the epic fail from the beginning".  Not much difference in Viper vs. Arachnos, The Purple Gang versus The Family, Clockwork versus Destructoid, etc.  Pretty much free reign in each game to develop a background story around derivative factions.

Huh. The Clockwork felt pretty different to me than Destructoids, who are really just Doombots.

[Bandit]

Splitting hairs again.  Sorry, clockwork are probably closer to Foxbat's robot minions, both being derivative AI robot henchmen.

Not trying to be a martyr here people, but I think being cynical has overcome you.  Your really picking it apart.  Just play it, the combat is fun, the character creation is pretty limitless.  I find it to be a great game for jumping in, banging out a few missions and walking away not feeling like I am punching the clock.  

If anything, CO should have probably just been a mico-transaction funding model and not a subscription game. Probably where it is failing.  Its an online game more than an MMO at this point.

[Sjofn]

See, that's just it. The Clockwork had personality, the robot minions don't. I don't know how to better explain it. The Skulls were a street gang that used dark-based magic, but their personality was different from the Hellions, who were a street gang that used fire-based magic. BASICALLY the same thing, but they had distinct personalities.

Again, I'm not saying CoX's lore set the world on fire, but it has more spark and more life than CO's. It doesn't really bug me that much, because I am playing it to beat up badguys and I can just enjoy it for that, but I would be lying if it wouldn't be more satisfying if I gave even the tiniest shit about the bad guys in CO.

[Snee]

The Skulls were a street gang that used dark-based magic, but their personality was different from the Hellions, who were a street gang that used fire-based magic. BASICALLY the same thing, but they had distinct personalities.

I havent played CoH in years, but reading this makes me think, both that the poster is correct and that I probably need to adjust my medication.

All stories need excellent compelling villains much more so than heroes which are invariably generic. CoH did have fine villains except for those undead freaks near the newbie area, oh and once you got used to Council of thorn animations they werent exciting either. Cant think of any other duds.

Well the endgame immunovillians didnt have much personality, but they sure were grindy, for bubbles.

[Malakili]

There are some pretty decent "minor" villains that you fight in the higher level content in champions.  Telios is particularly is pretty good (around level 30), the genetic engineer super villain for lack of a better description.  Fighting in Stronghold prison against an entire prison population that has been mind controlled by Menton is pretty awesome too. (mid to late 20s).    Foxbat and Dr. Destroyer are meh to me though.

Anyway, the best villains in Champions are the ones the PLAYERS create.  I don't know how many people here made it to level 25 though.

[Khaldun]

I'd much rather fight some of the Nemeses that I've seen.

The whole Stronghold thing is nicely done and exciting. Telios is pretty interesting as well.

Monster Island has some decent content but the overall visuals scream out "we didn't have time to finish".