Champions Online: The No-NDA Merged Edition

[Ard]

The fact that they chose to do this on launch day, instead of a few weeks back when it could have been tested by the masses in every possible configuration of powers imaginable speaks volumes to me.  This is the part where if I were going to play, I'd pretty much have no faith in the developer.  Someone in the champions thread linked above compared this to the NGE it.  It's pretty much not far off from that in the manner that they did this, not necessarily the scope of the changes, but the fact that they did widescale changes with virtually no testing.

[Morfiend]

For someone who doesn't want to or can't click on any of the links to their forums, does this amount largely to a major xp nerf, or a nerf of powers across the board?  You've probably already said and I'm just missing it.

The numbers seem to be along the lines of this.

Defense powers reduced by 60%. (This was needed from what a lot of people said)
Defense from gear reduced by 30% (this is NOT needed and is really hurting people who specced for offense)
Around 2/3rds of the Offensive powers reduced by about 40%. (Some needed, some not.)
Mob damage increased by 25%.

[Modern Angel]

And you know, if the stats weren't so weird even that gear defense nerf wouldn't matter much. Example: Dexterity increases crit rate. Ego increases crit damage. So your crit rate and your damage bonus from critting are totally independent of each other. If you want one you MUST stack the other as well. What that then means is that you can't up one of your more passive, defensive oriented stats; going, say, Constitution and Dexterity is pointless.

[tazelbain]

One spreadsheet to rule them all and on launch day bind them.

[Montague]

The fact that they chose to do this on launch day, instead of a few weeks back when it could have been tested by the masses in every possible configuration of powers imaginable speaks volumes to me.  This is the part where if I were going to play, I'd pretty much have no faith in the developer.  Someone in the champions thread linked above compared this to the NGE it.  It's pretty much not far off from that in the manner that they did this, not necessarily the scope of the changes, but the fact that they did widescale changes with virtually no testing.

Yeah the nerf itself doesn't seem that bad, it's the way it was handled plus the fact it's very difficult to be able to afford a respec.

Oh and they nerfed all travel powers by 15% because of server performance issues? Riiiight. 

[Modern Angel]

I didn't see the travel power nerf. Holy fuck what?

By the way, the manual is the most hilarious thing ever. Five pages. Four of those are EULA and credits.

[Cyrrex]

For someone who doesn't want to or can't click on any of the links to their forums, does this amount largely to a major xp nerf, or a nerf of powers across the board?  You've probably already said and I'm just missing it.

The numbers seem to be along the lines of this.

Defense powers reduced by 60%. (This was needed from what a lot of people said)
Defense from gear reduced by 30% (this is NOT needed and is really hurting people who specced for offense)
Around 2/3rds of the Offensive powers reduced by about 40%. (Some needed, some not.)
Mob damage increased by 25%.

Hmm.  The three things that were keeping me somewhat interested in this game were (in no particular order):  The ability to make crazy, quirky, cool superheroes.  The freaking cooler than shit travel powers.  The ass kicking you could deal to the average mob.

And it sounds like all three of these has been nerfed to some extent.  How very dumb.

[Ghambit]

Let's face it though, the game was way too easy for even dumbass builds.   It needed some serious adjustment.  There will be folk who are indeed having more fun post-patch (those who like to group, who min-max, and/or like fluid tactics), but those folks are tough to find and it overall breaks the premise of their original vision.

But hey, they evidently increased droprate to make up for it.  :)

[Montague]

I didn't see the travel power nerf. Holy fuck what?

By the way, the manual is the most hilarious thing ever. Five pages. Four of those are EULA and credits.

Also it looks like they nerfed mission xp back to the rate of the open beta shitstorm. Undocumented of course. Really starting to reconsider on the preorder - I can take being nerfed but don't insult my intelligence.

[Nebu]

Let's face it though, the game was way too easy for even dumbass builds.  

WoW has made millions using this strategy.  

[Yegolev]

I wonder how much nerdrage it will generate in the people who shelled out for lifetime or 6 months.

This first post is the winner of your contest:
http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=49352

Personally I cancelled my lifetime sub today, canceled preorder.

It was my birthday too, and i was looking forward to this game.

But If i got to sit there waiting for you guys to sort the clusterxxxx that you made today at 2:30 AM, i better get paid for it not you guys.

I was hoping this year would be full of champions online but now its evident you guys are too lazy too incompetent to just go ahead and properly balance the skill trees, I might as well wait for a real MMO like FFXIV.

You guys have fun, beta was great, and yet you STILL screwed it up bad.

To all you min maxing fanboys trying to claim "good i don't need you, leave already!" kind of messages, get real, you need everyone you can get, revenue is the game's life blood.

[Nebu]

Let's face it though, the game was way too easy for even dumbass builds.  

WoW has made millions using this strategy.  

Let me clarify.

I think that having options to make the game easy in a pve title is a good strategy.  It allows ready access to the game and a shallow learning curve for the uninitiated.  Several of the class/core choices available to your players should be stupid easy to play and succeed at.  Couple to this several very powerful, but very difficult to master classes/core abilities and you create a carrot for players.  This allows a benefit for the achiever while allowing access to the novice. 

[Bandit]

To reiterate, some nerfage was required....and I knew it would come.  I made a might/power armor character and I seemed to be virtually unstoppable in PVE.  I could pretty much take on 10+ henchman, one-shotting them with uppercut one at a time in quick succession and walk out with 100% health.

I admit it was fun, but not any real challenge.  I will have to check the changes when I get home tonight, but just looking at the percentages it seems a bit severe.  I won't cry foul until I try for myself....but it is a real bait-and-switch no matter how you look at it.  My hope that it hasn't moved too much to the min/max side of the spectrum.  I like choosing powers based on projected fun rather than worry about gimping myself later on.

[Yegolev]

Nerfs were apparently needed, but applying them on launch day and not providing a respec is just mean.

[Cyrrex]

Nerfs were apparently needed, but applying them on launch day and not providing a respec is just mean.

Here's the part of the argument that I don't really get, I'll admit:  If it's launch day, is a respec really necessary?  I mean, you just started!  This game seems like an Alt-addict's dream anyway, so I'm not following this.  What am I missing?

[Hayduke]

It's a move done in bad faith, that's the issue.  Not whether or not the game warranted some nerfs.  It was done after people picked up their preorders and paid for lifetime subs.  A patch this big should've happened weeks ago.  Instead Cryptic let people preview a game that they had no intention of shipping.

[Yegolev]

Right, it's not that it's so shitty a process to roll a new character (possibly this is more fun than the game itself) but more along the lines of making people do it after they went through all the trouble to make the perfect hero with the matching name and all that.  Your next magnetic frog man will not be called Magnetoad, possibly Magnet Frog which is just stupid.

It's just kinda insulting they did not do this at least a few days before.

[Lantyssa]

All this Anguish is feeding my ego.  I almost feel like a horrible person for enjoying it so much.  Then I remember I warned people and they said it would all work out fine.

[Nevermore]

Right, it's not that it's so shitty a process to roll a new character (possibly this is more fun than the game itself) but more along the lines of making people do it after they went through all the trouble to make the perfect hero with the matching name and all that.  Your next magnetic frog man will not be called Magnetoad, possibly Magnet Frog which is just stupid.

I thought it didn't matter if someone else had the same name as you, you could use it as well?

[Typhon]

Right, it's not that it's so shitty a process to roll a new character (possibly this is more fun than the game itself) but more along the lines of making people do it after they went through all the trouble to make the perfect hero with the matching name and all that.  Your next magnetic frog man will not be called Magnetoad, possibly Magnet Frog which is just stupid.

I thought it didn't matter if someone else had the same name as you, you could use it as well?

That is correct.  Character names are unique by something like charactername@username

[Ghambit]

The biggest whiners were the headstart people who are lvl 20+ and cant at least respec.  I'd be equally pissed if I were them, especially so with a 6+ month/lifetime sub.

@Nebu, like I've said before... I dont mind "easy" games, but the overall design and theme of the game has to support it.  ChampO is thematically supposed to be easy as you say, but it's not currently designed to be.  The missions are bland, the pvp near non-existent, economy zilcho, itemization (the best carrot there is) sux, and there's little to no endgame content at this time.  Now if you've got all of what I listed you can make the game as "fun" as you want for the biggest playerbase.  But, if you dont then you have to resort to grindy nerfbats to give the illusion of a well-developed game.  I mean, options for chargen are great 'n all, but if the game itself doesnt present options, no amount of cool chargen will save you.  You'll get bored no matter what... and no alt-whore will want to reroll to go through uninspiring content anyways.

Even after all this hoohaa though I still may get the game.  But the realization is (right now) it's still just a glorified character generator and that's seemingly it.  W/o a supergroup I'd also slit my wrists.

[Modern Angel]

All this Anguish is feeding my ego.  I almost feel like a horrible person for enjoying it so much.  Then I remember I warned people and they said it would all work out fine.

Eat me. A company adjusting every single thing in the game within two minutes of launching is sort of unprecedented.

[Typhon]

Sitting at work, not actually able to play, so I'm just going on the heresay at the moment but I'm a bit bummed as I think these games are supposed to make you feel overpowered and can't understand the need to tone it down.  Also, I have a level 20 electricity/supernatural (regen) character and am not looking forward to half my powers being placeholders.

:) Was having fun last night though, maybe they'll unfuck it.

[Slyfeind]

Was gonna get it, now I'm not. Oh well, I got Naxx tonight anyway.

Le sigh.

[Yegolev]

That is correct.  Character names are unique by something like charactername@username

Well, I meant you'd have to use a different name for your re-rolled hero or you'd have to delete the first one.  I have had trouble with this on other games, but it's not a huge deal.  It's not actually the hassle as it is the way they did it.  I'm not personally vested in this game but I'm still struck by the method of this change.  Almost like someone wants the game to tank.

[Ghambit]

I'm not personally vested in this game but I'm still struck by the method of this change.  Almost like someone wants the game to tank.

Well, anyone have any sales figures?  Maybe they're gonna do what they usually do and tank one game to finish dev. on another (STO).  Many people have speculated that's what's gonna happen as Cryptic's been bleeding money the past year pretty badly.  If they make enough coin on release sales they may very well put ChampO on the backburner and concentrate on STO.

[Nonentity]

I um

I look awesome?



I shoot force bolts out of my chest, where the thumbs up is.

[Lucas]

I would hit you it, yeah.

[Lantyssa]

Eat me. A company adjusting every single thing in the game within two minutes of launching is sort of unprecedented.

Except all the last minute changes in closed beta then doing it again with open beta.  Also following known patterns when Emmert was in control of another game.  Totally unprecedented.

[Modern Angel]

No, the scope of this really hasn't happened. You're welcome to remain smug about how you saw a fundamental redesign happening the same second the servers came up, though.

On point, having played around some I don't feel terribly less powerful. Need to be a little more careful but so far nothing major. Might just be my power set. Also not noticing an XP nerf on quests but wasn't paying a ton of attention to before.

[Morfiend]

Fuckit. I am going to pick this up on my way home, anyone thats playing interested in forming a supergroup, ie chatroom?

[Malakili]

I haven't played yet today (still at work) but some sort of nerfage was necessary.

Fight Club is supposed to be a level 17 instance recommended for 3 people. My wife (hardly a minmaxer) is a Might tank and I'm Fire DPS with a splash of healing at level 17, so we tried it with just the two of us. We started off being careful by using LOS pulling and me holding back to allow her to get sufficient aggro, etc. But after the first two pulls she just dove in and I AOE'd the shit out of everything. The only death was when we thought we had cleaned the place out and I found a stray supervillain in a side room that she couldnt taunt off me. Even then I just rezzed, came back to the fight, healed her and then blasted everything dead.

Yeah, I was about out of quests and new that fight club would open up enough content for me in follow ups to get me to where I wanted to be quest wise.  I couldn't find a group so I finally just went in (level 16 might based character).  I soloed the whole thing.

So basically, yeah, I knew this was coming, but and I'm not surprised.  I am, however, a little surprised at the severity.

[Mike_Lescault]

 The missions are bland, the pvp near non-existent, economy zilcho, itemization (the best carrot there is) sux, and there's little to no endgame content at this time.  

While I didn't really expect to, I've been having some fun with the game. The number of options for character builds seems pretty interesting, and for the most part the tap vs focus/wind-up mechanics feel pretty tight. I haven't tried it since the changes today, so I do worry about it not feeling quite as "right" if enemies are now a lot tougher to kill.

The PvP has been pretty enjoyable at lower levels, but I'm definitely worried about how it will hold up to the test of time (and player/group optimization). I guess we'll see. It's been pretty quick to get from level 1 to 11, so I haven't found it to be painful to make (and remake) characters to try different things.

[Nonentity]

I'm already in a supergroup with some WoW buddies, but I'll regular group with you and we can hit things.

[Trippy]

It's like CoH's ED and GDN* all rolled into one on launch day! It was hard to imagine how a game could be globally nerfed as much as what Jack did to CoH but somehow he managed to top himself

ED = Enhancement Diversification. Jack was upset that players were able to handle more than 3 minion-level mobs at a time (this in a fucking super hero game) so he nerfed virtually all powers across the board by effectively cutting in half the effectiveness of "enhancements" that boost your powers.

GDN = Global Defense Nerf. Defense powers (powers on your character that reduced the enemy's chance to hit you) were nerfed by 40%. Mob to hit chances were lowered slightly not as much as Defense was nerfed.