Champions Online: The No-NDA Merged Edition

[Big Gulp]

Also, the fact that all characters are meant to be heroes at this point drops my interest dramatically. 

No shit.  Wasn't that a major failing of City of Heroes the first time around?  And this is the same team making that call?  Pffft.

Plus, y'know, Emmert had a hand in making this, so I'll be avoiding this game like genital warts.

[Triforcer]

Wow, this will end up being quite the AAA dry spell.  Wake me in two years when DCUO and SWTOR finally see the light of day.

[Ghambit]

(sigh)
Looks like they're dropping the ball as usual.  Really, how much money do we all think they just blew by not making a Summer release?  Quite an assload if you asked me.  Major screw up.  Now let's see if JGE has the same fate.  I'm willing to bet they will (if they dont, they're sitting pretty).  So really, is there not a SINGLE title releasing this summer season (assuming JGE doesnt)  Wow... just wow.  How phucked up is the MMO genre when not a single AAA title releases in a summer??  Let alone pretty much a year.

Y'know, I'd say they'd be better off not trying to release right after Aion (in sept.).  Might as well wait for the holiday season and perfect the game, 'cause at this point there's no real reason to even try to make a September release.  Their bottom-line would do much better with a holiday release and a more solid game.

[Kageru]

The "we listen to our beta testers" line is such a smokescreen though.

If they thought the game was in even reasonable state they would have launched on time.

[Ashamanchill]

So nothing at all out this sumemr then huh?  I'd take anything at this point, even an AoC expansion  .  Please don't tell me I might have to go outside for my entertainment.

[UnSub]

It should mean the open beta will start in August at the latest.

[Venkman]

This was a good move. It might be due to their beta testers. Or maybe their marketing/publishing arm said meh, not enough here yet. And we're not talking a Spring to Fall slip here. The launch date moved to July 14th awhile ago. Moving to Sept 1 is just another six weeks.

However, I'm not convinced it'll be Sept 1 either.

[Ghambit]

This was a good move. It might be due to their beta testers. Or maybe their marketing/publishing arm said meh, not enough here yet. And we're not talking a Spring to Fall slip here. The launch date moved to July 14th awhile ago. Moving to Sept 1 is just another six weeks.

However, I'm not convinced it'll be Sept 1 either.

The difference between July 14th and Sept 1st (especially for a damned superheroes game) might as well be an entire year; it's a loss of box sales.  And this is w/o even considering the amount of tension built up for another aaa MMO, which Cryptic now probably wont be able to take advantage of.

Also, how many folks do we all know who were willing to try this thing just because it was all that was out there? (a helluva lot probably)  I'm one of em.  But, if I'm playing JGE and/or Aion and I'm a happy gamer... I just might not buy ChampO, even if the beta is really good.
I'm with you though, I dont believe Sept. 1 is gonna happen either if there's any truth to Emmert's betatester comments.  Usually when testers rant that a game should be delayed, 6 weeks isnt enough to fix the issues they've brought up (miracle patch or not).

[Lantyssa]

Considering how much griping we do about companies not delaying until they're ready, I'm not going to fault them.  Not knowing the state of the game I cannot say if it is a sufficient delay.  I do know I would rather they do so if it improves the game.

[tmp]

MMOs are never fully done on launch, it doesn't stop them from actually launching. So if they decide to push the release date back (not really unusual, most of them do it) ... it just makes one wonder how terribly incomplete it must still be at the moment.

[Ghambit]

If it's so terribly incomplete then their original published launch dates were terribly wrong (and woefully unprofessional)...  unless they blew smoke up their pubby's ass to get a nice contract done, assuming they're not smart enough to factor this B.S. in the 1st place.  They must be working with an uncharacteristically small Dev team, because really... this game has been in the works for what?? 5 years now?  Using proprietary tech., an older engine, and a complete IP.  Granted, they didnt secure the IP till last year.  I'd say buying STO had something to do with it also.

(ahh whatever, browser-games ftw)

[Koyasha]

It's all about what they're pushing it back for, how bad it is, and how much it's going to improve.  If they're delaying it to attach some things they feel are important but the game is otherwise working well, that's not a good thing considering the current market situation.  They'd be in a better position to gain/keep players if they released earlier and added these systems in the first patch.  On the other hand, if there's major flaws with the game that might drive customers away, maybe they're right delaying because a shitty launch is suicide and you don't want to have major problems with your game at launch, even if it means getting less box sales due to bad timing. Cause major launch problems translates to quick spreading of the word that this game sucks, which means that even after the problems are fixed there'll be this perception hanging eternally over your head, like Anarchy Online had.  No matter how much time passed, how much they fixed, or how much better the game got, everyone's first thought about AO tends to be how it didn't work on launch.

Since most of us don't know the current state of the game, we can only speculate as to what the reasons for the delay are, and it seems there's a general perception it's the former.

[Ghambit]

They should've pulled people off of STO to make sure the game made a Summer release.  Twas my company, that's what I would've done given the market right now.

[Venkman]

This was a good move. It might be due to their beta testers. Or maybe their marketing/publishing arm said meh, not enough here yet. And we're not talking a Spring to Fall slip here. The launch date moved to July 14th awhile ago. Moving to Sept 1 is just another six weeks.

However, I'm not convinced it'll be Sept 1 either.

The difference between July 14th and Sept 1st (especially for a damned superheroes game) might as well be an entire year; it's a loss of box sales.  And this is w/o even considering the amount of tension built up for another aaa MMO, which Cryptic now probably wont be able to take advantage of.

What and what?

This is a shift from mid-summer to holiday season. Publishers dream of having that flexibility to get into the holidays. That's when all the retailers do their own big campaigns, making it the best time to draft off of the general attention being drawn to the store. It's not like a Publisher is the only one doing marketing on the game.

As to the "amount of tension"? Consider whose watching and what else they'll be getting. No DCUO. No WoW expansion. Probably no JG:E. No Agency. No Huxley. No SWTOR. ChampO didn't move from having a nice plumb lonely spot in the middle of a dead season to up against the next WoW expansion. This isn't a mass market title. This is specifically for folks like us here who'll be paying as much attention to it in July as September.

So I see a net loss of zero.

[Lantyssa]

I agree.  They won't lose anyone over this, and may in fact gain some through retention.

[Morfiend]

I agree.  They won't lose anyone over this, and may in fact gain some through retention.

You know what "they" say. You only get one chance to make a first impression. If 6 weeks can help them bring the game from polished to "spit shine" (which I doubt) I can't see it being anything but a good thing. Also, as someone else said, it depends on what the delay is for. If they feel "hey we need a few more weeks to polish this thing" thats awesome. If its a more WAR type delay as in "omg pathfinding is broken, the servers cant support our main feature" then 6 weeks wont do jack shit.

Lets just hope they have more than 3 star talent.

[Ghambit]

I just figured a Supers game (whose target audience is kids and young adults in school) would be much better served releasing in the Summer (also when there's nothing else out there), not at the start of a school season while competition mounts.  And as far as MMOs are concerned, the "holiday season" isnt effective unless it's post-thanksgiving or your game is WoW quality.

But hey, if they're delaying long enough to polish the game well enough to carry players through the holiday season, then maybe they'll take advantage.  I sure hope so.

[Margalis]

They should've pulled people off of STO to make sure the game made a Summer release.  Twas my company, that's what I would've done given the market right now.

Adding people to the end of a project only works if those people are doing QA or other tasks that require minimal understanding and ramp-up time. Otherwise it's usually a net loss in productivity.

A loss in box sale can be made up with 4 months of retention. Both WAR and Conan had pretty impressive initial box sales - however the business model of MMOs is reliant on continuing revenue, not initial sales. Trying to push something out the door to hit a release window is usually not a good idea for any game, let alone a game that relies strongly on retention and word of mouth.

[eldaec]

I just figured a Supers game (whose target audience is kids and young adults in school) would be much better served releasing in the Summer (also when there's nothing else out there), not at the start of a school season while competition mounts.  And as far as MMOs are concerned, the "holiday season" isnt effective unless it's post-thanksgiving or your game is WoW quality.

Yes, as you know, college kids are well known for playing more computer games during exams and sunny weather.



Anyway, I don't even consider this a delay. It's the inevitable 6 to 18 months you apply to all MMOG titles. If there were a bunch of new games launching in September, this would still be a good move, as anything scheduled for September won't arrive till March.

[AcidCat]

This has to be for the best. Though I was not in beta, the "word on the street" that I heard was overwhelmingly that the game needs a lot of polish still.

[Hawkbit]

You don't have to look any farther than the WAR and AoC forums to see why morgs require near-complete state at launch.  Seriously.  I don't care who you are anymore; those two games burned a lot of people. 

I, for one, will be waiting to see what beta news comes out on morgs from here on out before buying. 

Sure, it's a loss of box-sales.  But I'd wager that most that were going to buy it now are still going to buy it later.  Unless you die, that is.  But that shouldn't be too many people in the interim. 

[Threash]

Also, how many folks do we all know who were willing to try this thing just because it was all that was out there? (a helluva lot probably)  I'm one of em. 

And how many of them would quit in disgust before the first month is over and then complain loudly that the game needed more time in beta? hint: you are probably one of them.

[UnSub]

Since I'm lazy: who does ChampO give ground to by waiting until September to launch? Jumpgate was still launching before them (apparently) and Fallen Earth is meant to launch some time in Q2 (allegedly) but I don't see ChampO really giving up any ground here.

[kaid]

Given how harsh the marketplace is for MMO's first debut these days I can see them taking a few weeks more to try to get as good a launch as possible. There are no second chances both war and AOC found this out the hard way.

There are no other real big MMO releases this summer to steal any thunder from Champions and hell by sept baring some crazy uber patch in wow there are going to be a lot of burned out folk looking for something new by then.

I am not sure what features they felt they could not get added in time but during the preview blog stuff one key thing that did not appear to be active yet was the make your own power set ability and if thats not fully functional yet that would deffinately be a cause to hold release until thats in and working fully. The premade archtypes are fine but one of the huge selling points of this game is the create your own framework ability and I was pretty surpised that did not seem to be fully active yet.

We shall see COH had a pretty damn fun beta and a solid release if they can do the same for champions coming into a pretty open market in time for the start of the holiday shopping stuff they could wind up doing really well from this delay.

[Nebu]

It doesn't matter how perfectly streamlined and polished CO is, it's still going to be niche.  Granted, that's more than enough of a marketshare to survive.  I'm just not sure that it will satisfy the investors. 

I hope that they realize this going in.

[kaid]

Any publisher that goes into an MMO expecting wow numbers deserves what they get. I think champions can do 150 to 200k users pretty easily if its amusing enough and is not as repetitive as COH was. I LOVED coh but the way missions were done got so repetitive that I just could not play in more than 3 or 4 month bursts.

Still COH wins for my most resubbed game usually once I leave an MMO I never go back again. I have gone back to COH 2 or 3 times now and enjoyed it when I did until the repitition got to me again.

COH was the only beta I ever really enjoyed playing a lot. Most betas are so buggy its to frustrating to play but COH I had found  steady group by pugging and we wound up playing together constently had a blast doing stuff. Was fun when the powers were in flux the original varient of tornado was hilariously dangerous to use but amusing power. It was one of those fun to use but pisses your team off kind of abilities but used out in the open it was always a hoot kicking hoodlums over small buildings with it.

[DLRiley]

I think if Champions Online was nothing more than a casual mmo like CoH ultimately is, then it will be successful. I say 250k active subs at any given time with a playerbase closer to 400k. I don't expect Champions Online to solve the age old "content that players can play forever" dilemma so its better for their business and probably a step in the right direction for mmo's in general to be a game you play for a few months, unsub then come back when your willing to hop on the pony again.

[Soln]

I have no idea what this is even about.  Marvel or DC MMO?

[Kageru]

They wish. Losing the marvel IP license they bought the champions IP, an obscure pen and paper system. Which they're only using for characters not game mechanics.

I don't see this game being too much of a challenge to CoX or surviving too well against DCUO. I'd say peaking just over 200K and stabilising well under.

[UnSub]

I think the initial box sales will be pretty good - WAR and AOC both sold over a million - but it is probably likely that retention will be an issue, regardless of game play.

As for payment, I'm kinda hopeful they'll go down the GW-with-a-smattering-of-microtrans route, but it will probably still be $15 a month.

[kaid]

Honestly from what I have seen of DCO I would be pretty surpised if Champions does not do quite a bit better if for no other reason than it will be easier to create the heroes you want to create and less locked into standard DC templates.

[Ghambit]

Honestly from what I have seen of DCO I would be pretty surpised if Champions does not do quite a bit better if for no other reason than it will be easier to create the heroes you want to create and less locked into standard DC templates.

THIS.

Really, why is everyone so up  DC's jock?  Everything they've shown us about the game so far sux ass, including the planned design.  They've got a long ways to go.

[Nevermore]

Because they all want to be The Batman.

[Lantyssa]

- I'm Batman.

[Morfiend]

Batman?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rQBQkSSCf8