Mythic/EA/UO Story Comes to a Thundering Close

[Ratman_tf]

There's plenty of people like that out there.  But every time I point it out I'm told I'm nuts and it's only a minority.

Then things like the Steam hardware setup reports get released, and I have a little bit of a giggle.

This very year I finally upgraded from windows 98 to XP. This on my gaming computer.

Dammit. I could run Burning Crusade, Eve and Guild Wars on that noble, heroic but vastly underpowered computer.

But BC was giving me the "OS not supported" warning when I logged in, and Eve finally just crapped out with a recent patch, and wouldn't play at all.

I think it goes from frugal to a point of principle to some people, no not be "bullied" into buying the latest shinies to run the newest games that are going to wind up in the bottom of your closet in a few months...

[Jain Zar]

Schild was bouncing around telling us what fucking psychos we all were.

I was, am, and will continue to be right.

Except for Sony and Nintendo related matters which constantly and amusingly prove you wrong on a daily basis.

Wii and DS up, PS3 and PSP DOWWWWNNN!  :-D

[Fordel]

I think it goes from frugal to a point of principle to some people, no not be "bullied" into buying the latest shinies to run the newest games that are going to wind up in the bottom of your closet in a few months...

That is my stance, more or less. I try to buy the good stuff when I do get around to replacing my worn out machines, but I won't purposefully upgrade to support any new game.

If a game doesn't support my current hardware, it obviously doesn't want my business. There is more then enough data floating around to know that most people run PoS machines, not top of the line hardware.

If you pardon the shitty analogy, they build games like Tires for Ferrari's but expect them to sell like Civic Tires.

[Samwise]

Especially if they're American, since most Americans only speak two languages, English and l33t.

Ymay Igpay Atinlay isway erfectpay!

Your Pig Latin wis perfect?   

[Signe]

isHay igpay atinlay eallyray isway erfectpay!

[schild]

Especially if they're American, since most Americans only speak two languages, English and l33t.

Ymay Igpay Atinlay isway erfectpay!

Your Pig Latin wis perfect?   

isHay igpay atinlay eallyray isway erfectpay!

Hehe.

[AW]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/2569-BioWare-Pandemic-The-Fatted-Calves

[Modern Angel]

I think it goes from frugal to a point of principle to some people, no not be "bullied" into buying the latest shinies to run the newest games that are going to wind up in the bottom of your closet in a few months...

That is my stance, more or less. I try to buy the good stuff when I do get around to replacing my worn out machines, but I won't purposefully upgrade to support any new game.

If a game doesn't support my current hardware, it obviously doesn't want my business. There is more then enough data floating around to know that most people run PoS machines, not top of the line hardware.

If you pardon the shitty analogy, they build games like Tires for Ferrari's but expect them to sell like Civic Tires.

Yeah, don't get me wrong here. I'm not an upgrade whore; I only now upgraded my 2GHz, 768 RAM, ATI x1600 machine to my sleek Quadcore, 8800 a couple weeks ago and the new machine isn't top of the line by any means. I want for stuff to come out in clusters of 'Man, I wish I could play that'. But it's a far cry being slow on the upgrade like I am (four years between machines) and refusing to upgrade after ten years. And then it gets into the realm of the weird when you don't upgrade and then insist on holding back a game you purport to love and want to do well because you won't upgrade from Machine From 1999 Machine From 2003. We're not talking thousands of bucks to run the new UO client here.

[WindupAtheist]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/2569-BioWare-Pandemic-The-Fatted-Calves

I don't understand.  Do you have any visual aids?

[schild]

How do you go from decent article to tin-foil hattery in one paragraph?

But in the wake of the deal, we have a lot of uncertain threads to be tied up. we have a pair of developers who went to extraordinary lengths to secure their autonomy, only to end up owned by the largest publisher in the industry. we have the CEO who just happened to land in all the right executive positions to organize the incestuous deal and go from investor to head of the company that bought out his own investment. we have a financial environment that resists as strongly as ever the idea of publicly traded developers unsupported by large publishers, and we have a private equity firm established to help support those developers which has all but abandoned the concept. In the end, the breaking away and eventual reeling back in of Pandemic and BioWare may be as much about reconsolidating the authority of big name publishers as any franchise.

[Murgos]

The red emphasis on those "we have"s (How the fuck do you pluralize a quote?) was so jarring I couldn't even figure out what was being said there until I looked at the article.

So the telling phrase is the last sentence, "In the end, the breaking away and eventual reeling back in of Pandemic and BioWare may be as much about reconsolidating the authority of big name publishers as any franchise.".

Amazing concept.  A big business buys their competitors because it helps them consolidate their position in the industry.  Uh, I kind of thought it was generally understood that was exactly the reason why you bought your competition?

[Ratman_tf]

Amazing concept.  A big business buys their competitors because it helps them consolidate their position in the industry.  Uh, I kind of thought it was generally understood that was exactly the reason why you bought your competition?

And then, in the video game industry, the employees are fired or quit, and go on to found more little startups. Out of those devs that put out a decently fun game then get eaten up by EA!

[UnSub]

How do you go from decent article to tin-foil hattery in one paragraph?

But in the wake of the deal, we have a lot of uncertain threads to be tied up. we have a pair of developers who went to extraordinary lengths to secure their autonomy, only to end up owned by the largest publisher in the industry. we have the CEO who just happened to land in all the right executive positions to organize the incestuous deal and go from investor to head of the company that bought out his own investment. we have a financial environment that resists as strongly as ever the idea of publicly traded developers unsupported by large publishers, and we have a private equity firm established to help support those developers which has all but abandoned the concept. In the end, the breaking away and eventual reeling back in of Pandemic and BioWare may be as much about reconsolidating the authority of big name publishers as any franchise.

I'm all for a good conspiracy theory, but I can't see one here. What happened with Bioware, Pandemic and VG Holdings happened at the time because it seemed like a good deal, and Riccitello jumping from company to company was more than likely a way just normal career advancement for someone like him. There wasn't some master plan to get Bioware and Pandemic that started years ago in the darkened boardrooms of EA - the games industy isn't that reliable to plan that far ahead.

The lesson here is that Bioware and Pandemic found out the hard way is that when you hand over control of your companies to a third-party, you really can't help what happens to that third party. Hope the $155 million set aside "to retain key talent" helps dry their tears though.

[Falconeer]

I know a guy who refuses to leave Shadowbane because he will not upgrade his computer.

I know this wasn't the point, but I don't think he won't leave Shadowbane because of the performance.
Shadowbane is a uniqe MMORPG, the only one with certain PvP characteristics in a fantasy environment.
And despite its tragic history, it is now an incredibly fun game.

So yeah, you had a point there because I know guys who still claim to play WoW for that reason, but in my opinion it doesn't apply to Shadowbane. Because, simply put, if you quit playing Shadobane there's nothing even remotely similar you can upgrade to. So if you like world-affecting PvP (and don't want to play EVE)  you are stuck with SB.

The same could be said for UO for a long time. I'd say up to Trammel the poor Diablesque-itemization.

[Jain Zar]

I think it goes from frugal to a point of principle to some people, no not be "bullied" into buying the latest shinies to run the newest games that are going to wind up in the bottom of your closet in a few months...

That is my stance, more or less. I try to buy the good stuff when I do get around to replacing my worn out machines, but I won't purposefully upgrade to support any new game.

If a game doesn't support my current hardware, it obviously doesn't want my business. There is more then enough data floating around to know that most people run PoS machines, not top of the line hardware.

If you pardon the shitty analogy, they build games like Tires for Ferrari's but expect them to sell like Civic Tires.

No, that analogy is right on the money.
The problem is people always want new shinies.  I even see it in the tabletop games market where one would think a good RPG still is good even if there aren't endless upgrades and expansions for it.  (According to RPGnet there should be a new edition every 2-3 years because its good for the industry or something.  RPGnet is full of clueless fucking morons.)

It doesnt matter that there were fantastic games on the C64 from 83-94.  By 89 in the US all the devs wanted to make their titles on the 2000 dollar PC compatibles even though the 100 dollar C64 and the 600 dollar Amiga 500 could almost match if not surpass in some categories as far as hardware specs went.  Games developers get hardware focused regardless of if its economically reasonable. 

Heck, just look at Valve and Mac gaming.  Macs are THE fastest growing computing segment and in the audience that plays games the most.  College kids.  Valve wanted a million bucks to let Half Life 2 get ported to the Mac.  (Though Gabe Newell said differently in between eating small children.)  So instead of making a fair money on an evergrowing segment of the marketplace, they get none.

Was it really greed, was it really Newell's insistence Apple didn't give a shit, or was it hardware focused asshattery?  Its mostly obvious its the latter with a tad of the cash lust.  But mostly a hardware and OS snobbery.

[stu]

Is $1 million dollars a lot of money to ask from a company in order to get a title ported? That seems like kind of a low-ball offer from Valve.

[schild]

It's a nothing amount of money. I've been calling bullshit on this story for a while. It's too ridiculous and too stupid.

[UnSub]

Heck, just look at Valve and Mac gaming.  Macs are THE fastest growing computing segment and in the audience that plays games the most.  College kids.  Valve wanted a million bucks to let Half Life 2 get ported to the Mac.  (Though Gabe Newell said differently in between eating small children.)  So instead of making a fair money on an evergrowing segment of the marketplace, they get none.

If growing from 3% of the market to 4% of the market is all we are talking about (which were the figures last I heard) it still doesn't make Apple some sort of gaming mecca.

On the other hand, if $1m was all Valve wanted, someone should have ponied up.

As for another part of your statement: Amiga 500 w/ 512kb memory expansion > PC x286 - x486 for games. Oh yeah. Pity that software piracy and management ineptitude killed Commodore.

[sinij]

What possible benefit is there for any SWG or UO discussion anymore though? KR was worth discussing for a bit, but like anything SWG, it always devolves into a histrionic nostalgia trip down what-it-coulda-shoulda-woulda-been lane.

Fun and good times? You can't pay money to somebody to get that kid of entertainment.

[Fabricated]

I laugh at the idea of it being worth Valve's time to port HL2 to it. Man, those thousands of man hours porting a complex game engine was worth those 10,000 sales. Wait, I doubt it'd even sell that much. HL2 doesn't have a wide enough appeal. WoW does, Blizzard had a history of porting to Mac, they made an OpenGL engine to start with, so it got ported.

[Murgos]

It doesnt matter that there were fantastic games on the C64 from 83-94.  By 89 in the US all the devs wanted to make their titles on the 2000 dollar PC compatibles even though the 100 dollar C64 and the 600 dollar Amiga 500 could almost match if not surpass in some categories as far as hardware specs went.  Games developers get hardware focused regardless of if its economically reasonable. 

...Valve wanted a million bucks to let Half Life 2 get ported to the Mac.  (Though Gabe Newell said differently in between eating small children.)

...hardware focused asshattery?  Its mostly obvious its the latter with a tad of the cash lust.  But mostly a hardware and OS snobbery.

What the hell are you talking about?  That no one would pony up a million dollars to buy the license to port Halflife 2 to the Mac is Valve's evil baby eating machination?  A million bucks is trivial for a license for the game of the year, that no one would cough it up meant that no one thought they could make back a million dollars in sales on the Mac.

You think the C64 was competitive in 1994?  Or the Amiga?  Do you realize that it was the open PC architecture that even allowed for the boom in gaming that existed in the 90's?  Developers like id loved the NeXT and the Amiga but everyone had PC's and so that's what they developed for.  Why would developers cough up thousands of dollars for a license to develop on Commodores products when PC's were most of the market AND practically free to develop on?  The whole 3D graphics card phenomena couldn't even have existed if not for the PC's open architecture.

Hardware focused asshattery?  Dude, shed your persecution complex and take a look around.

[Jain Zar]

I laugh at the idea of it being worth Valve's time to port HL2 to it. Man, those thousands of man hours porting a complex game engine was worth those 10,000 sales. Wait, I doubt it'd even sell that much. HL2 doesn't have a wide enough appeal. WoW does, Blizzard had a history of porting to Mac, they made an OpenGL engine to start with, so it got ported.

Its not worth Valve's time.  But reports are that companies have talked with Valve and that's the price they gave them.   At the current level of sales Mac games get a million bucks is insane.  (Havok physics engine games have had trouble for the same reason, and its apparently only around 250-750K) 

Of course most Mac games are Popcap styled derivative puzzle crap that could be made in a week, 2 if the basement coders ran out of Monster Energy and Red Bull. 

That's the thing.  The amount of money it would make didn't come close to the amount Valve was asking for a liscense. 

On to other things: I don't think anyone needed a liscense to make games on the Commodore machines.  Commodore was known for incredibly stupid decisions, but I don't believe that was one of them.  I certainly don't remember any such shenanigans mentioned in the history of Commodore book I have.  Liscenses to develop on a system didn't start till Nintendo anyhow. 

The sad thing is people did have Commodore machines.  The C64 is still the best selling home computer of all time.  (Admitted, it was 1 machine for over a decade and these days people get antsy if there isn't a new set of hardware every 3-4 years.)  The Amiga was HUGE in Europe. (And it was a Sega Genesis for all intents and purposes.. ok its more the Genesis was an Amiga really..)

[stray]

It would be a good thing if game companies got the fuck away from DirectX. That's all I know.

[UnSub]

On to other things: I don't think anyone needed a liscense to make games on the Commodore machines.  Commodore was known for incredibly stupid decisions, but I don't believe that was one of them.  I certainly don't remember any such shenanigans mentioned in the history of Commodore book I have.  Liscenses to develop on a system didn't start till Nintendo anyhow. 

This was because a C64 game could be developed by the aforementioned basement coders, who didn't even have Red Bull to fall back on.

... we're a long way from Mythic / EA / UO at this point.

[Samwise]

It would be a good thing if game companies got the fuck away from DirectX. That's all I know.

The problem is that OpenGL (especially in its standard form, without all the extensions) doesn't provide nearly as much shiny as DirectX does.  And there aren't any other alternatives.

[Viceroy]

I see Warhammer being another EA flop, don't you?

I think it will Ancient Wyrm . Reason I think so is because EA Mythic has yet to launch or manage an MMO in which they didn't ultimately run into the ground yet. Lets take a look at EA's track record :

MMO games still running but not performing well :

The Sims Online (might as well be dead)
Ultima Online
Dark Ages of Camelot

MMO titles ran into the ground by EAl :

Earth and Beyond
Motor City Online

Can you think of any others? If so please post them here. Thanks!

[WindupAtheist]

I smell Stratics all over you.  Die.

[Lum]

Meridian 65 doesn't exist.

Meridian 59 was never owned or operated by EA. It was published by 3DO, which went out of business. One of the developers bought the rights and is running it independently.

[Ratman_tf]

Meridian 65 doesn't exist.

Fuck that. I'm playing Meridian 360!

[HaemishM]

Both Dark Age of Camelot and Ultima Online are performing well enough to not be in the same sentence with Sims Online.

[Driakos]

Motor City Online is the other sunset.

[eldaec]

EA has had no measurable effect on DAoC or UO, because they've only controlled them for 5 minutes. The sky is not falling. DAoC has been on the run down for a while, and UO still has WUA posting screenshots, so it doesn't look like anything has got worse.

EA might suck - but you need to try harder.

[Reg]

EA owned Origin all through the development of UO but it happened before they'd been completely borgified. I'm sure that if EA had been in full control they'd have cancelled it before it was ever released.

[UnSub]

I thought UO2 was the great white hope of all the MMOs that EA cancelled.

However, it's several years since then and I think that EA may have had time to look around and think, "Hey, there might be something to these MMOs after all."

[Jain Zar]

I thought UO2 was the great white hope of all the MMOs that EA cancelled.

However, it's several years since then and I think that EA may have had time to look around and think, "Hey, there might be something to these MMOs after all."

They also fucked over Multiplayer Battletech 3025.  I played the beta.  It REALLY had potential.