It's been a bad year for Wolverine

[Velorath]

Not that I care too much about Wolverine, but fuck if Marvel doesn't seem to be doing their best to add all kinds of bullshit to his character.  Wolverine #58 is the straw that broke the camels back in this case, as far as what prompts me to actually make a topic about a character I usually don't give two shits about, but in order to fully appreciate exactly how bad marvel is fucking up the character, we have to go back to the recently concluded arc Jeph Loeb did.

You see Loeb decided to establish that Wolverine isn't exactly a mutant, but rather part of a sub-race of wolf-like people.  Compouding that folly was the fact that Loeb decided that not only are Wolfsbane and Sabretooth part of that race, but he also failed to do his character research and put Feral (who is a cat rather than a wolf), and fucking Sasquatch in that group too.  Also he established some sort of legend where two members of the pack always emerge, one dark haired and one blonde, who will challenge each other over who gets to be the alpha male or somesuch, in magnificantly retarded way of explaining the Wolverine/Sabretooth rivalry.

The cherry on top of the retarded sunday though, came with issue #58, from a script apparently shat out by Marc Guggenheim, which establishes that anytime Wolverine is fatally wounded, he has to fight and defeat the Angel of Death, before his soul can come back to his healing factor repaired body.  He gets this chance each time he dies, because he defeated the Angel of Death in the real world once before on a battlefield in WWI.  Seriously, WTF...

[HaemishM]

You see Loeb decided to establish that Wolverine isn't exactly a mutant, but rather part of a sub-race of wolf-like people. 

Yeah, you can stop right the fuck there. I hated Wolverine badly enough when he was just an irritating mutant. That... that's fucking clownshoes territory right there. I'm glad I stopped reading that book about the time Loeb started. Loeb's comic work has taken a steep turn into shitsville lately, and some of his stuff was never good (like he and Lee's Superman arc).

[stray]

Hmm, shitsville doesn't sound like the right word. Sounds more like one of those storylines a little 6 year old would make up.

Don't get me wrong though, 6 year olds are cute. No offense to them.

[Velorath]

You see Loeb decided to establish that Wolverine isn't exactly a mutant, but rather part of a sub-race of wolf-like people. 

Yeah, you can stop right the fuck there. I hated Wolverine badly enough when he was just an irritating mutant. That... that's fucking clownshoes territory right there. I'm glad I stopped reading that book about the time Loeb started. Loeb's comic work has taken a steep turn into shitsville lately, and some of his stuff was never good (like he and Lee's Superman arc).

As someone who seems to get a bizarre sense of entertainment out of watching shitty movies, you might also get the same reaction from reading Loebs Wolverine arc.  It's afwulness is only rivaled by Howard Mackie's closing arc on Mutant X (that one with Havok in an alternate reality) from years back.

[Mazakiel]

Woah.  They actually brought back that lameass "He's really a <animal thing>!" idea back?  Apparently way back when whoever was writing X-Men (around the early 80s I think) had that idea, and the editor at the time basically said "Are you fucking nuts?", and so it was dropped before even really starting up.  But now it's back, and actually done?  And we've also got fighting angels and shit?  Just...wow.  Just when I think Marvel can't get any shittier, they knock one out of the park. 

[Velorath]

And I didn't even mention the part where Wolverine kills Sabretooth with a magic sword.

[Lt.Dan]

The cherry on top of the retarded sunday though, came with issue #58, from a script apparently shat out by Marc Guggenheim, which establishes that anytime Wolverine is fatally wounded, he has to fight and defeat the Angel of Death, before his soul can come back to his healing factor repaired body.  He gets this chance each time he dies, because he defeated the Angel of Death in the real world once before on a battlefield in WWI.  Seriously, WTF...

As a concept this is a pretty cool idea even if it doesn't really fit with, you know, the entire mutant thing.  The other draw-back is rationalising it against Wolverine's past - that guy must get fatally wounded as often as he almost impales someone on his claws.  That Angel of Death should be called the Washington Generals of Death. 

[stu]

Marvel is such a joke these days. Does the talent over there even take pride in their work?

That Angel of Death story belongs in a Vertigo title.

[HaemishM]

The Angel of Death thing has been used before in other titles with other characters, but only sparingly. I remember one story of Danielle Moonstar (a tragically misused character from the New Mutants) who fought death a few times. Of course, at the time, she was considered a Norse Valkyrie and rode on of those horses, so she was part of the whole escorting dead heroes to the halls of honor thing. There it made sense.

To have Wolverine do it... it reeks of a writer with no ideas whatsoever about the character, and with no editorial oversight just writing whatever he wants. I gather the Wolverine titles sell, because they've never been that good anyway. Rucka might have done good work, but there is really shit you can do with the character these days that is fresh AND makes sense. He's stretched over way too many books.

[stu]

My all-time favorite Wolverine story has always been the old Barry Windsow-Smith Mutant X origin from the Marvel Comics Presents flip books. I'm pretty sure that story arc has been negated from continuity though. I was probably only fifteen when I started picking them up and each one was already a back issue by then. To see a character I was invested in go through those government experiments and in no way able to control his fate was something totally new to me at the time, but I can't see myself as a kid and being interested in what's currently being produced by the House of Ideas in regards to Wolvie.

The Angel of Death idea is cool and it even sounds cool how they applied it to Wolverine during a war he fought in. But, it's just not his bag.

A good example for use of Angel of Death would be something along the lines of Punisher: Born, by Ennis and Robertson. That was something I totally bought into, although I think the Angel of Death was only implied in the story... might have been the devil, now that I think of it. Been a while since I read that one.

[Velorath]

The Angel of Death idea is cool and it even sounds cool how they applied it to Wolverine during a war he fought in. But, it's just not his bag.

I think it could just about work if you made it unclear whether or not he was actually fighting the Angel of Death, or if it's just something that's going on in his mind while everything is putting itself back together.  Instead though, they brought Dr. Strange in to explain everything to Wolverine.

[stu]

The Angel of Death idea is cool and it even sounds cool how they applied it to Wolverine during a war he fought in. But, it's just not his bag.

I think it could just about work if you made it unclear whether or not he was actually fighting the Angel of Death, or if it's just something that's going on in his mind while everything is putting itself back together.  Instead though, they brought Dr. Strange in to explain everything to Wolverine.

For sure. Dr. Strange in a Wolvie title? That's like watching Batman run around on the planet Apocolypse. The editors dropped the ball on how to approach that one.

[Zetleft]

Jesus Christ I'm so glad I stopped reading comics altogether.  Sometimes I get nostalgic and want to start up again and I have but to view this forum and be thankful.  Marvel just doesn't give a fuck what goes on with the comic anymore now that they have a few success's in the movie biz. 

[stu]

That's why I turned to independent titles. They usually have a definite begining and end, plus you're always getting the best a creator has to offer.

[Velorath]

On the plus side for Wolverine, it looks like things are finally moving forward with the Wolverine movie.  Variety is reporting that the movie will release on May 1st, 2009.

[LK]

Looks like Loeb is fucking with Hulk too.  I don't follow the comic but I saw the cover of Hulk #1 on Marvel's site with the Red Hulk and just went "WTF".

[Velorath]

Looks like Loeb is fucking with Hulk too.  I don't follow the comic but I saw the cover of Hulk #1 on Marvel's site with the Red Hulk and just went "WTF".

On the plus side they gave him his own Hulk book to fuck with (and are hinting the Red Hulk might not even actually be Banner).  Pak is still going to have his book.

[Margalis]

I don't think knowing the difference between a cat and a dog is really "research." 

I used to read a newsgroup that Marvel editor would post in...they are retarded there. (That guy was cool though) Most of this you can blame on the editors. Unlike in books where one guy owns the concept throughout it's life in comics you expect to have different guys with different ideas rotating constantly, it's up to the editors to maintain constant stewardship over the characters.

[LK]

What's really sad and an epiphany I had was when I went home I looked at some Batman books I picked up, all dealing with Holiday and the rewrite of the origins of Two-Face and Robin (Long Halloween, forgot the other), and which I found to be exceedingly awesome, and they were written by Jeph Loeb.

So...yeah.  Maybe they were good because they were based on Miller's Year One.

[Hoax]

A good example for use of Angel of Death would be something along the lines of Punisher: Born, by Ennis and Robertson. That was something I totally bought into, although I think the Angel of Death was only implied in the story... might have been the devil, now that I think of it. Been a while since I read that one.

That was the one where he gets brought back with the mark on his forehead and the crazy alien/angel guns and told to fight for good right?  That shit was crazy.

[stu]

The base that Castle is on towards the end of the Vietnam War gets overrun by a division of Viet Cong. He makes a pact in order to survive the night they invade so that he can see his wife again. You pretty much know the whole time that he's going to do it, but I don't want to give away all the details. It's my favorite Punisher story. 

edit: I detect sarcasm.

[LK]

Born's awesome.  I'd recommend picking that up and Fury: Peacemaker.