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Author Topic: EA acquires VG Holdings (BioWare and Pandemic)  (Read 44592 times)
Montague
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Reply #105 on: October 12, 2007, 02:32:52 PM

Hmmm...

This might be a bit on the Pollyanna-ish side but let's say that Riccitello "gets it" and he wants to change the gamer perception of EA. If EA's reputation inside the dev community is as bad as it is with the gamers, he'd have no choice but to buy up other studios if he wants to get real talent in house to make those games, and associate the EA brand with non-derivative, creative games. Something tells me that putting up want ads and "Hai guyz weer good guyz now lolz!" posts in message boards ain't gonna cut it.


When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross - Sinclair Lewis.

I can tell more than 1 fucktard at a time to stfu, have no fears. - WayAbvPar

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Montague
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Reply #106 on: October 12, 2007, 02:36:38 PM

An observation by someone that has been apart of two companies that were bought out by bigger companies:  The one getting bought up ends up with all the leverage.

So, past experience with such things actually leads me to believe that it is WAR that will never see the light of day, and NOT the unnamed fantasy DIKU clone that BioWare is working on.

Carry on pontificating.

450,000 beta apps and not seeing the light of day? That would be a PR apocalypse for EA.

When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross - Sinclair Lewis.

I can tell more than 1 fucktard at a time to stfu, have no fears. - WayAbvPar

We all have the God-given right to go to hell our own way.  Don't fuck with God's plan. - MahrinSkel
taolurker
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Reply #107 on: October 12, 2007, 02:39:20 PM

See now you're just taunting Mark Jacobs to wager even more.


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Yegolev
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Reply #108 on: October 12, 2007, 02:40:36 PM

Quote from: Montague
stuff

I believe that's a good assesment, particualrly considering the new departmentalization of EA.  You'll have BAU in the Sims and Sports divisions, because the customers have no alternative or are ignorangutans, respectively, while the Casual dept will keep on-tenth of southeast Asia employed.  The Misc department will be used to gain some credibility, or at least have a toe in the hardcore gamer sector.  Too bad it's all called EA.

Edit for context.

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MarkJacobs
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Mythic Entertainment


Reply #109 on: October 12, 2007, 02:43:54 PM

Montague,

   I agree 100%.  For me, it all boils down to performance.  I've liked what I've seen so far about what JR has been doing and I'm willing to give the man a chance to change the culture at EA.  One of the reasons I agreed to being bought by EA was that there were other people then who wanted to change the culture as well.  The game developer and game player community should not be convinced just by words but by deeds.  Again, it's the same thing I said about DAoC and I am saying about WAR.  Wait to see what comes out and then draw your own conclusions.  Judging someone or something too early often fails miserably. 

   Here's something else you all should keep in mind.  When BioWare and Pandemic came together it was because they wanted to, not because they had to.  I know that BioWare had other suitors (when Mythic was independent, Mythic and TA (the guys that invested in us) were interested in doing what JR did) and they chose Elevation over all those other folks and I assume that Pandemic also had offers.  So, either they were very dumb and I'm being dumber now or they liked what they saw and heard from EP as I like what I'm hearing/seeing from JR. Again, time will tell. 

Mark
tazelbain
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tazelbain


Reply #110 on: October 12, 2007, 02:46:11 PM

Well aren't you on a tear, Mark.

What is "light of day", in this context?  Do WAR, TR, AoC, G&H count? And Spore what about that?

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HaemishM
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Reply #111 on: October 12, 2007, 03:08:19 PM

Well, there goes another good dev studio. Alright, what's left for the evil disgusting giant to buy?

The other, slightly smaller evil disgusting giants. Like Ubisoft.

Salamok
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Reply #112 on: October 12, 2007, 03:11:08 PM

Well aren't you on a tear, Mark.

What is "light of day", in this context?  Do WAR, TR, AoC, G&H count? And Spore what about that?

lol thats a good point, with the secrecy of the Bioware project he could win the bet if they ever release an MMO at any point in the future.  Even if EA releases an MMO 5 years from now with a shrouded origin you could point and say "Oh ya that was the Bioware mystery MMO".  

Personally I think it will see the light of day, but on the flipside it's chances of being amazing have gone down.  I was already somewhat of a sceptic in regards to it's potential greatness due to the craptastic UI and playability of the NWN games.  I liked the concept/content and for something that included a world builder tool it had decent enough graphics but I never could get immersed so to speak because I was always annoyed by what a pain in the ass it was to make the character do anything.

Add EA to the mix which has UI issues of it's own to solve (not to mention a habit of screwing up dev teams) and I have all but written this mystery game off.
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Reply #113 on: October 12, 2007, 03:12:20 PM

Guys.

Bioware CA has nothing to do with Bioware US in terms of craptacular crapiness. In fact, I'd trust CA to make a better MMOG than the US team.

That US team, it smells like West Virginia.
HaemishM
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Reply #114 on: October 12, 2007, 03:32:30 PM

Hmmm...

This might be a bit on the Pollyanna-ish side but let's say that Riccitello "gets it" and he wants to change the gamer perception of EA. If EA's reputation inside the dev community is as bad as it is with the gamers, he'd have no choice but to buy up other studios if he wants to get real talent in house to make those games, and associate the EA brand with non-derivative, creative games. Something tells me that putting up want ads and "Hai guyz weer good guyz now lolz!" posts in message boards ain't gonna cut it.



If he does indeed "Get It" then he needs to get the fuck up from his office, go over to the EA Sports division, pull out his hopefully gigantic, steel penis and dickslap every bitchass cunt working in that office from the receptionist to the guy in charge to the fucking janitor. The shit they are doing to their sports franchises is fucking criminal.

Mrbloodworth
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Reply #115 on: October 12, 2007, 03:36:42 PM

Hoax,

   Love to.  Here are my terms for the bet:

1) If the MMO that BioWare is working on never sees the light of day, I will post a full page apology for being a total monkey-boy for having faith in the wrong people.  It will, as always with me, be posted under my real name.  The apology must be well-written and contain lots and lots of wonderful language that makes me look like a complete idiot.

or

2) If the MMO does see the light of day, you will do the same and under your real name and state of residence, approach the apology from the perspective of being a totally cynical SOB, overly-jaded, etc.

As to the site of posting, if you don not to spend any money (which is fine by me), we can pick a site (here would be fine if Schild, etc. are okay with that?) or pick the newspaper of your choice and we can run it as an ad.

Work for you? :)

Mark

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Reply #116 on: October 12, 2007, 03:40:59 PM

I didn't respond because Every single MMOG designer in the industry owes us all public apologies for making diku bullshit over and over.

As such, I thought the wager was, how do you say in America, weak sauce.
Hoax
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Reply #117 on: October 12, 2007, 03:51:17 PM

Hoax,

   Love to.  Here are my terms for the bet:

1) If the MMO that BioWare is working on never sees the light of day, I will post a full page apology for being a total monkey-boy for having faith in the wrong people.  It will, as always with me, be posted under my real name.  The apology must be well-written and contain lots and lots of wonderful language that makes me look like a complete idiot.

or

2) If the MMO does see the light of day, you will do the same and under your real name and state of residence, approach the apology from the perspective of being a totally cynical SOB, overly-jaded, etc.

As to the site of posting, if you don not to spend any money (which is fine by me), we can pick a site (here would be fine if Schild, etc. are okay with that?) or pick the newspaper of your choice and we can run it as an ad.

Work for you? :)

Mark

Works for me.

Let's be clear though:

-Light of day = released to public.
-I fully expect you to use the term "monkey boy".
-Your terms sound fine for what I have to do.
-The letter will be posted on f13, unless Schild suggests a better idea for the venue (again, go easy on my wallet man).

Also this isn't supposed to be some sort of call out bullshit, just a funny bet, so lets be clear that I am not nor have I ever been a dev stalker.  I do totally expect EA to fuck people over though.  Good show to Mr. Jacobs for picking up my jovially tossed gauntlet.

***

To people saying WAR will not get released, you are out of your freaking minds, the old GW might have considered pulling the plug if they didn't like the way it looked but the new one is so money hungry they just want some of those money hats they've seen the Blizzard guys wearing.

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Margalis
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Reply #118 on: October 12, 2007, 03:58:58 PM

The shit they are doing to their sports franchises is fucking criminal.

EA does stuff with its sports division?

As far as I can tell there have been maybe 3 Madden games since the Genesis days, and the rest have been minor versions at best.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #119 on: October 12, 2007, 04:01:23 PM

Hoax,

   Love to.  Here are my terms for the bet:

1) If the MMO that BioWare is working on never sees the light of day, I will post a full page apology for being a total monkey-boy for having faith in the wrong people.  It will, as always with me, be posted under my real name.  The apology must be well-written and contain lots and lots of wonderful language that makes me look like a complete idiot.

or

2) If the MMO does see the light of day, you will do the same and under your real name and state of residence, approach the apology from the perspective of being a totally cynical SOB, overly-jaded, etc.

As to the site of posting, if you don not to spend any money (which is fine by me), we can pick a site (here would be fine if Schild, etc. are okay with that?) or pick the newspaper of your choice and we can run it as an ad.

Work for you? :)

Mark

Works for me.

Let's be clear though:

-Light of day = released to public.
-I fully expect you to use the term "monkey boy".
-Your terms sound fine for what I have to do.
-The letter will be posted on f13, unless Schild suggests a better idea for the venue (again, go easy on my wallet man).

Also this isn't supposed to be some sort of call out bullshit, just a funny bet, so lets be clear that I am not nor have I ever been a dev stalker.  I do totally expect EA to fuck people over though.  Good show to Mr. Jacobs for picking up my jovially tossed gauntlet.

***

To people saying WAR will not get released, you are out of your freaking minds, the old GW might have considered pulling the plug if they didn't like the way it looked but the new one is so money hungry they just want some of those money hats they've seen the Blizzard guys wearing.

This has been witnessed. The bet is made.

May the best man win.

Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
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MarkJacobs
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Reply #120 on: October 12, 2007, 04:03:18 PM

All,

   Hmm, good point about the mystery BioWare MMO.  My intent is certainly not to look at Spore or some other game (4 years from now) and claim that's the mystery MMO.  Lots of people at EA what it is and of course BioWare knows what it is but nobody can talk about it yet even though it is well into development.  As to when they are going to talk about it, that's not up to me.  I didn't propose the wager but I'm happy to follow through on it by stating some simple terms.  I'm sure that the BioWare will announce it at some point and if not, and it doesn't get released, there will be plenty of people talking about the game that never was.  I'm happy to have BS called on me by guys like Rich or Gordon who, of course, know the truth if I tried to pull that. I'm just as happy to forget the whole thing if Hoax likes since he was the one who called me out on the bet.

   Either way, bet or no bet,  I'm excited by the MMO and when it is announced I think the community will be as well.

Mark

Hoax,

   Agreed to all your terms, especially the term monkey-boy for my naivety, foolishness and gullibility.  As to call-out BS, I couldn't agree more, that's why I suggested here as my first option as opposed to the newspaper.  This is a great bet and I look forward to seeing the results. 

   As to Mr. Jacobs, please, it's Mark, always has been, always will be. 

   As to WAR not getting released, I also agree.  As has been pointed out already, we have 450K+ true beta signups (excluding Asia), great pre-sales and tons of interest in Asia.  It's getting released when it is the game it should be or you'll see  EA throwing my butt out the door with a vengeance.

Mark 
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Reply #121 on: October 12, 2007, 04:05:52 PM

Re: Riccitello being Robot Jesus instead of Baby Eating Jesus:



That said, I really do hope he can compartmentalize the Old EA mentality to the business units that do fine with that model (e.g. EA Sports). What I'm surprised about is that Riccitello isn't going the route that the movie studios have used for decades now: form wholly-owned subsidiary brands in order to escape the taint that the "EA" mark sticks on a title for certain markets.
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #122 on: October 12, 2007, 04:12:36 PM


Hoax,

   Agreed to all your terms, especially the term monkey-boy for my naivety, foolishness and gullibility.  As to call-out BS, I couldn't agree more, that's why I suggested here as my first option as opposed to the newspaper.  This is a great bet and I look forward to seeing the results. 

   As to Mr. Jacobs, please, it's Mark, always has been, always will be. 

   As to WAR not getting released, I also agree.  As has been pointed out already, we have 450K+ true beta signups (excluding Asia), great pre-sales and tons of interest in Asia.  It's getting released when it is the game it should be or you'll see  EA throwing my butt out the door with a vengeance.

Mark 

The stage is set!


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Hutch
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Reply #123 on: October 12, 2007, 04:23:14 PM


The stage is set!


"Dun dun dun duun dunn da ta da da dun dun dunn da ta da daaa"

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Jain Zar
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Reply #124 on: October 12, 2007, 05:29:56 PM


   As to WAR not getting released, I also agree.  As has been pointed out already, we have 450K+ true beta signups (excluding Asia), great pre-sales and tons of interest in Asia.  It's getting released when it is the game it should be or you'll see  EA throwing my butt out the door with a vengeance.


Or you could stave off the inevitable and quit early.  EA bought you.  That means your company is no more, it will... cease to be.   And its usually sooner rather than later.  Sadly, you guys don't have the cache one would figure Westwood and Origin had, which still didn't help them.  Except they actually use Westwood IP as opposed to whatever tiny smidgen of necrophilia they do to Origin's top flight IPs.  (Well they were top flight.  These days its more of a "huh"? and wondering why anyone cares.  Wing Commander had a movie, an animated series, and a bunch of kickass games.  Since EA got em?  A shitty XBLA action game  similar in IP insult as Mech Assault or Shadowrun.  Hmm.. and what happened to Fasa Studios anyhow?  Oh.  Same thing that happens to companies EA buys.)

I have bought almost every Games Workshop based game released since 91-92.  Yours is being published by EA.  It will be the end of the streak. 

EA needs to go fuck itself.  They are Wal Marting up videogames and generally killing many of the game series I loved as a teenager and young adult.

I will be avoiding anything Bioware does now too.  Hell, EA is only distributing Orange Box and I am on the fence about it!  There are a good 15-20 million morons who buy Madden every year so my refusal to give EA any cash is moot, but I don't care.

Maybe one day they will fix their assholeness the way Nintendo did.  (Getting your ass kicked helps!  Late 80s- Early 90s Nintendo were complete douches.  Now?  Not so much.)

Ghambit
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Reply #125 on: October 12, 2007, 05:40:57 PM

I've got a question for those "in the know."  Seems like everyone kinda likes Mr. John Riccitiello, but didnt he leave EA in 2004 (fairly recently)?  Didnt EA make craptastic games and destroy good titles (like Earth and Beyond and others) during his tenure there?

I guess I'm trying to say, "what makes him so special?"

To me, he only looks like some hoity toidy big business exec out to make nothing more then a profit.  The line with this whole EA-thing still reads to me like EA is JR's lil' private investment piggy bank.  He's made over 100% profit in a few years by getting EA (which he heads basically) to buy his investment companie's ONLY smart buy (VG holdings).  Elevation Partners btw, didnt seem to be doing too well until the VG Holdings buy.  Mind you, this 100% profit doesnt even really include the equity and stock options EP gets from the deal after everything funnels down.  Not to mention, we're forgetting about the what?  $135 million of the deal that went to grease the bigwigs at VG Holdings to agree to the deal in the first place.  hmmm, I'd like to see who at Bioware/Pandemic got a piece of that kickback.

I ask again, how is any of this beneficial to BP or the gaming industry in general??  It's NOT.  It's purely a monetary, greed-based transaction that simply waters-down the industry with blatant speculation and nothing concrete.  Get paid now, worry about the rest later.

BP didnt need EA, their rep just went DOWN by letting EA buy them out.  Yes, EA paid to gain BP's rep (a record sum for gaming purchases btw).  But I'm more inclined to believe it was simply to get their stock to rise 5% in 24hrs (along with lining people's pockets with cash).  I seriously doubt this deal is for the "betterment of mankind." 

Oh yeah... my contribution to the bet:


Question though... which one of the betters has the Pon Farr?

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Righ
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Reply #126 on: October 13, 2007, 11:07:14 AM

no secret implants

If you knew about them, they wouldn't be secret, would they?

So the mystery MMOG is going to be recoded to use Mythic's engine rather than HeroEngine? :P

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Reply #127 on: October 13, 2007, 11:14:33 AM

I'll agree with the notion that this will make or break Riticello.  There's a new sheriff in town, so old ways might not persist today.  However, I will also say again: Welcome to Big Business, the Cake is a Lie.

I agree with this. If Riticello can't make his revenue targets while trying to turn EA into  Hello Kitty to gamers, he's out. The next replacement would then play it safe and cut those titles that haven't proven themselves. Sekret unnamed projects, like the Bioware one (and Pandemic has 4 sekret projects listed on their site) would be the first to be dumped.

If WAR doesn't meet its targets (and sorry, but until about a week before launch day it's pretty hard to work out which way the wind is blowing on this) then that Bioware MMO is going to also get looked at carefully. If Mass Effect doesn't break some sales records, or if Dragon Age doesn't do ... well, whatever Dragon Age is meant to do - again, Bioware is likely to suddenly finds itself on a tighter leash.

It's not the first game that I expect the relationship between EA and whoever they bought recently to be tested - that kind of thing starts to come in when projects don't achieve what they are expected to achieve. It's those post-problem games that are likely to be more EA-hands on.

Oh, and there may be three other worlds that see the Bioware MMO cancelled: World of Starcraft. Blizzard announces that and MMO devs everywhere will just go into the fetal position for about 4 years.

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Reply #128 on: October 13, 2007, 11:25:46 AM

That last part pisses me off, because I wouldn't even want to play a World of Starcraft. I don't even like Starcraft.

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Drogo
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Reply #129 on: October 13, 2007, 12:45:49 PM

I think it sucks that BioWare is going to be part of EA and hope this does not end as badly as past EA transactions, but I expect it will.

On the bet, I am looking forward to seeing the outcome no matter who loses.
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Reply #130 on: October 13, 2007, 04:04:13 PM

Are we even sure that it's World of Starcraft, rather than World of Diablo that's being worked on in seekret?  I've been figuring they were gonna go there with Diablo next, since SC2 is the other in-dev game.

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Reply #131 on: October 13, 2007, 04:37:57 PM

I think that a tiered release of SC2 and WoStarcraft would be amazing and full of win for Blizzard.

I doubt it would happen though.

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Reply #132 on: October 15, 2007, 04:37:27 PM

The shit they are doing to their sports franchises is fucking criminal.

EA does stuff with its sports division?

As far as I can tell there have been maybe 3 Madden games since the Genesis days, and the rest have been minor versions at best.

Yes, lately they've been taking established series like Madden and Fifa and pissing on the updates. Both Madden 08 and Fifa 08 for the Wii were goddamn shovelware travesties. One would expect that while 08 wouldn't be that different from 07, it wouldn't be demostrably worse. After all, they are just polishing the chrome on a well-iterated engine, right?

No, wrong. They fucked 08 up beyond belief, and I've heard rumblings that every version since 2006 on the next-gen platforms has been just as buggy. But morons like me need our updated rosters, and so we buy it. I likely won't buy Madden again, but Fifa I will, because Fifa 07 was one of my most favorite games ever.

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Reply #133 on: October 15, 2007, 05:06:11 PM

Are we even sure that it's World of Starcraft, rather than World of Diablo that's being worked on in seekret?  I've been figuring they were gonna go there with Diablo next, since SC2 is the other in-dev game.

Hellgate may have stolen their world of diablo thunder.  I'm with cmlancas I want to see world of starcraft, wasnt starcraft ghost supposed to be something along these lines?
Ghambit
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Reply #134 on: October 15, 2007, 06:31:29 PM

Are we even sure that it's World of Starcraft, rather than World of Diablo that's being worked on in seekret?  I've been figuring they were gonna go there with Diablo next, since SC2 is the other in-dev game.

Hellgate may have stolen their world of diablo thunder.  I'm with cmlancas I want to see world of starcraft, wasnt starcraft ghost supposed to be something along these lines?

The general concensus IMO upon hearing of the release of Starcraft 2 was disappointment (at least in my gaming circles).  Most people expected and were damn near BEGGING for a World of Starcraft.  Why Blizzard didnt listen just tells me that once again they're looking to milk that cash-cow till it runs dry; as others on these forums have suggested.  If you follow Warcraft, it was basically the same deal.... there were 3 of em before the MMO came out.

Now that the dust has settled, I think most people believe Starcraft 2 will be a dud.  Myself included.

I'm inclined to believe the Bioware MMO will be some kind of sci-fi title; the void is still gaping in that genre since Blizz isnt going to run with World of Starcraft and Perp. is tanking with STO.  Perhaps Blizz knew this and that's why they werent going ahead with it.  Then there's also Tabula Rasa, which steals a bit of the sci-fi market as it is.  And remember, much of Blizz's staff is working on WoW expansions, not new games. (aside from starcraft)

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Reply #135 on: October 15, 2007, 08:45:54 PM

Speaking strictly for myself, I've almost universally preferred single-player content to online content.  Starcraft, in particular, was no fun at all for me online.  And for personal reasons, I avoid MMOs like the plague.  So I'm pretty excited for Starcraft 2, and would most likely not buy any kind of World of Starcraft or World of Diablo game.   Unless, of course, it came with cake.

Also: Ghost, as I recall, was supposed to be an FPS.
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Reply #136 on: October 15, 2007, 08:49:52 PM

Starcraft Ghost? 3rd Person Action, I believe. You don't model a chick like that and then make it first person. It's a waste of time.
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Reply #137 on: October 15, 2007, 09:06:15 PM

Yeah, pretty sure Ghost was 3PS with stealth elements. It's too hard to do a FPS with stealth elements since you can't really see what you need to see.

Despite (imo) RTS games being a much lesser draw than they were 5 years ago, Starcraft 2 won't tank. There are millions worldwide who want to see the SP and MP aspects of this game. However, if Blizzard doesn't see that (again imo) RTS games have moved away from being slow moving resource crunching games to faster moving battles, I think they won't have the success they are aiming for.

That said: World of Starcraft would blow the sales of Starcraft 2 out of the water, imo.

In my earlier post, I forgot about the World of Diablo concept. It's too close to WoW for Blizzard to do and not be seen as completely derivative.

Salamok
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Reply #138 on: October 15, 2007, 11:45:24 PM

I seriously doubt SC2 will tank and I for one am looking forward to playing it. 

Seems like Blizzard would have a ton to gain from cranking out a starcraft MMO utilizing WoW's game engine before it becomes too outdated. 
Ghambit
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Reply #139 on: October 16, 2007, 12:15:48 AM

I seriously doubt SC2 will tank and I for one am looking forward to playing it. 

Seems like Blizzard would have a ton to gain from cranking out a starcraft MMO utilizing WoW's game engine before it becomes too outdated. 

SC2 wont tank at release... quite the contrary, they'll make beaucoup dollars off of box sales I'm sure.  That doesnt mean the game wont tank;  I just dont think another RTS rehash of an old game is something that cool.  Besides that, the vids. and info. I've seen of it arent that compelling.  I'm looking forward to playing it as well, but I doubt I'll be doing-so for very long.  Such is the life for most RTSs these days - even the good ones.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
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